Analysis and discussion of elections and opinion polls in Australia
US election minus 48 days
A new thread for discussion of matters American, as the polls return to level pegging following the Republicans’ convention bounce.
Author: William Bowe
William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, has existed in one form or another since 2004, and is one of the most heavily trafficked websites on Australian politics.
View all posts by William Bowe
Paul at 352 – just havin fun and seems your adding to it.
Socrates
“why do you call liberals elitist?”
I’ll answer that , but my stance varys somewhat in degree from Paul Nash’s
Obama talking about millions of working familys in Pennsyvania & other mid west towns
And he is talking ABOUT them behind there back 3,000 kilometres away to affluent fund raisers in San Francisco on 5/4/08 , and reported in ALL credible US media:
“And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”
ONLY an elitist would regard those words as completely non elitist , whatever there context
There ar in my view “elitist liberals” , and some “non elitist liberals” Obama is a “elitist Liberal ” and above demonstrates
I don’t mind non elitist suporting Obama despite this be they non eleitist “liberals” or otherwise , but I do question objectivity of those who deny flatly deny or ignore Obama is a “elitist liberal” & support him
Ron, Rezko is only data in your own twisted mind. He’s just a typical grubby political cling-on of the type that infests every political system. That’s politics, especially in the US where the money/politics nexus is so obscene.
Like most of these googled facts of yours, there ain’t a great lot of gravitas to them.
We know you think Obama is (choose as many as necessary) terrorist sympathiser, weatherman double agent, corrupt financial broker, election manipulator, alien, satan and puppy eater.
But the way you carry on – it’s ridiculous.
Ron
Its the cheap generalising ad hominen attacks I object to, as well as the other points in my posts to JN. They (extreme right wing conservatives) use “elitist liberal” or “leftist liberal” as a standard descriptor and form of attack. I don’t think its reasonable. Some liberals are elitist, but many are not. I sometimes wonder if its just a resentful backlash against educated liberals from those who did less well in their own education. Even so, I don’t assume all conservatives are dumber than George W Bush and would appreciate a similar lack of branding in return. Edmund Burke was one of my favourite political philosophers.
Also I am not an Obama fan anyway, but given what has happened under the incumbent republican adminstration over the past 8 years, I’d like to see a little more balance and honesty coming from conservatives. If I can admit that NSW Labor is an embarrassment, then its time they did the same with their republican failures. There are some conservatives I respect thes days, but not as many as I’d like.
Possum
You are wrong about Rezko. There’s plenty of data about it like how important it is to American voters. Outside of the Faux News room and Rush Limbaugh’s studio, the percentage of US voters who think Rezko is a significant issue in the election is pretty steady. The sample of registered voters was about 100 million and here are the results;
0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
Can you work out the MOE on that? I make it out to be zero, but I’m not an expert.
I can’t seem to find the link for that data. I’ll post it later. It’s in my Heiner Affair folder. 😀
lol Dio! Love it 🙂
I don’t understand why liberal elitism is a bad word. I strive to be the best at whatever I’m doing, I’m certainly liberal – slightly to the libertarian end of the spectrum rather than the left liberal end and to anyone that reckons that’s a nasty thing – you can chew on my furry bits.
The last thing this country needs is another dose of superficial f**ktardery that tries to denegrate either achievement or a belief that the governments fist should stop where my nose starts.
(I’ll get off the soapbox – who’s turn next?)
I’m happy to get on that soapbox now, Possum. All this “liberal, “elitist” and “intelligentsia” crap really is funny. It panders to the herd of the population who are embittered by their poor education and lack of intellectual faculties. To think that being (a) more intelligent and (b) better educated is a bad thing beggars belief.
Brand new ABC News/Washington Post Poll
OBAMA 52
MCFAKE 43
9 points – is this the biggest poll lead Obama has had in a while?
O’Possum Factor
#403
Rezko is data in your own twisted mind that IS reported in th “New York Times” from an journalistic NYT investigative team …which has far more credibility than you sitting in Queensland knowing little if anything about th subject
But the way you carried on in response to this credible NYT data is ridiculous & feline to any reasonable poster , you having made an unsubstantiated Rezko comment only to look foolish & uncredible when viewed against th NYT info
Evan, neither Kerry (04) nor Gore (00) had any polls before Election Day where their Democratic numbers started with 5* …….. That in itself should be your first clue that we are heading in the right direction 😉 ……
Possum, any room up on the perch at your end of the political spectrum? I’ll take a seat up there, please, with you, we can perch together 😉
True Poss; perhaps it is the anti-intellectual bit in conservatism I dislike the most. I suppose its the part of me that regrets the loss of Australia’s dead spirit of egalitarianism that reacts most to such comments.
[only to look foolish & uncredible]
Ron I think you just described yourself
Socrates
$404
After you’ve read #403 , perhaps you wish not to further reply without being tainted
In response to your #404 actual post , there is nothing at all in it I disagree with inclufding re NSW Labor
Regarding Obama’s 5/4/08 San Francisco speech that I quoted from in #402 , I’d re post my view that ONLY an elitist would regard those Obama’s words as completely non elitist , whatever there context Not sure if you concur , (notwithstanding my later comment that support or non support for Obama should not rest on that alone anyway)
I’m not denying that Rezko existed or that he tried to worm his way into a sphere of influence with politicians Ron!
The difference here is that I’m neither surpised nor concerned because that exact thing happens everyday, in every political system, but particularly in the US because of the nature that fundraising plays – whereas it is making you have kittens because you seem to really,really want to believe that Obama is the antichrist.
You have no nuance Ron, no subtlety, no grasp of context – it’s just headline hysteria and to be honest it’s not only really bloody annoying but makes any mildly complex political discussion almost impossible.
juliem – it’s a big tree, take a seat you child eating liberal elitist you!
Poss and juliem I might have to ask for a branch on that tree too after all. Perhaps we can get a good view of the republican defeat in November that seems likely now.
Upon reflection, the whole Obama vs McCain thing is a little unfortuante. it isn’t just them that are being elected, but a whole army of respective republican hangers-on or democrat hangers-on. After Bush it is quite simple, the republican hangers-on have to go IMO. Any republican successor will never be allowed to remove the incompetents and preosecute the guilty to the extent needed. So I definitely hope Obama wins.
That’s spot on Socrates – at any election with a major party system, you aren’t really electing an individual, you’re electing a party with all the baggage that party carries with it *first and foremost*.
Oh – and have a seat, mind the knots – they can be awkward 🙂
Rudd and Murdoch were just on the news (not together) saying the bailout should go ahead. Murdoch said something that I’m getting really fed up with. The line the neocons are using is “In principle I don’t like it but I think we should bailout the banks.” So these guys principles aren’t really worth very much. I haven’t heard a single one say “Our principle is not to bail out so we shouldn’t bail out.”
And the FBI is investigating Fannie May, Freddie Mac, Lehman’s and AIG.
Au Contraire Dio – their principles are worth quite a bit.
About $700 billion as a round figure 😀
McCain caught lying yet again. Has this man a single shred of decency left? He’s been lying about the relationship between Freddie Mac and his campaign manager. He denied vehemently that there was one since 2005. Now it turns out that a company owned by Rick Davis has been receiving $15,000 a month from Freddie since 2005 until one month ago. That should go down well in the debate. 😉
[ The Foreign Policy Debate is supposed to be right in McCain’s sweet spot. But I believe foreign policy is McCain’s weak spot, one that has not been exploited, but one that I believe Obama will pounce on on Friday night. ….. 2. Personal history – John McCain is a war hero, we all know that, and there is no need to mention it again. Sen. Obama is awfully deferential in mentioning this point. It needs not be restated, unless Sen. Obama thinks that mentioning it will piss of McCain and cause him to lose his cool. McCain may see it as condescending. But otherwise, Sen. Obama, let it go.
3. Year of Experience – Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney had years of experience. We all thought – many Democrats included – that their wisdom would serve this country well. In turns out that all it did was make them stubborn and they refused to see that we are in a new era, which means we have to fight in new ways. ]
[ Did I also mention Senator Obama has a plan that includes NEW jobs for Detroit and a revitalization of the auto industry? Oh, and a nice plan for our Great Lakes just to put some icing on that cake….
No lies there. Just solid plans. Bold plans.
What did Michigan get from you, Senator McCain? A few speeches and stops at our nuclear (which your running mate can’t pronounce) plants.
Senator, you lied to Michigan. You lied to Detroit. You lied to my friends. You lied to my family.
Reading the following, I am glad that both Republicans and Democrats are standing up to this rubbish ….. The US has 3 separate branches of government for a #*$&#($*&#($&#( reason, checks and balances ….. How stupid does Bush think the American public is? If they need the bailout that badly, they need to get with the program and accept reasonable safeguards …..
[ A critical – and radical – component of the bailout package proposed by the Bush administration has thus far failed to garner the serious attention of anyone in the press. Section 8 (which ironically reminds one of the popular name of the portion of the 1937 Housing Act that paved the way for subsidized affordable housing ) of this legislation is just a single sentence of thirty-two words, but it represents a significant consolidation of power and an abdication of oversight authority that’s so flat-out astounding that it ought to set one’s hair on fire. It reads, in its entirety:
Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.
In short, the so-called “mother of all bailouts,” which will transfer $700 billion taxpayer dollars to purchase the distressed assets of several failed financial institutions, will be conducted in a manner unchallengeable by courts and ungovernable by the People’s duly sworn representatives. All decision-making power will be consolidated into the Executive Branch – who, we remind you, will have the incentive to act upon this privilege as quickly as possible, before they leave office. The measure will run up the budget deficit by a significant amount, with no guarantee of recouping the outlay, and no fundamental means of holding those who fail to do so accountable.]
Possum and Socrates, ….. the only election [outside of Kevin07] that I have ever been able to get happy and excited about was Clinton’s first election in 1992. I was sitting on the couch that evening watching election returns and had two men sitting on either side of me. I voted for Clinton. On my left was the Bush voter. On my right was the independant voter for Ross Perot. It was absolutely sweet that night as the states came in more and more blue, I was smiling from ear to ear and both men had sour faces.
417,
Socrates (and Possum),
[ After Bush it is quite simple, the republican hangers-on have to go IMO. Any republican successor will never be allowed to remove the incompetents and preosecute the guilty to the extent needed. So I definitely hope Obama wins.]
I STRONGLY suggest the following book if you haven’t already heard about it. Title -Obama’s Challenge – America’s Economic Crisis and the Power of a Transformative Presidency by Robert Kuttner. Publishing date of September 2008 although it mentions the Freddie and Fannie bailouts so it is REALLY recent and up to date. I purchased it through Amazon.com in the USA. Including shipping, it costs between $18 to $25 Aussie. Rough guess pending the current exchange rates as opposed to when I purchased it. Once you order it, it takes about 2 1/2 weeks or so to get here. I’ll quote one reviewers comments from the back cover – “Kuttner pulls off the all-but-impossible. He hits the high notes with artful precision, lifting expectations and articulating the steps that can make Barack Obama a great president – while setting forth a strong and highly readable call for comprehensive and essential economic change.”
[ September 24, 2008
Alaskans Protesting Palin
When Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin returned to her home state, she got a “welcome back” that she wasn’t expecting. The Alaska Women Rejecting Palin protest grew from a handful of women talking about the perception of universal Alaskan support for Palin to an event that is being called the largest political rally in Anchorage history. Attendance estimates range from just under 1,000 to more than 1,500 people (less than 100 people were estimated to have formed a counter-protest in support of Palin).
You may feel that a simple protest shouldn’t qualify people for awards. But after reading about ordinary Alaskans refusing to talk on record about Palin to reporters, it’s clear that showing one’s face at such an event could have negative repercussions. According to Amanda Coyne, who covered the event for Alaska Dispatch, state workers would not speak on the record, and some even felt the need to disguise their identities for fear of reprisal. But others actually feared for their own safety.
Charla Sterne and Ilona Bessenyey organized the event. Prior to the rally, they were identified on air by a conservative talk radio host named Eddie Burke, who called them “socialist, baby-killing maggots” and gave out their personal cell phone numbers. The women received angry, threatening, and profane phone calls from many of Burke’s listeners.
Burke was suspended without pay for one week, but his radio station manager remarked, “We attempt to respect everyone’s First Amendment rights, including Eddie Burke’s.” Apparently Burke’s listeners don’t realize that the right to peaceably assemble is in that same amendment.
We would like to reward the bravery of these two women as well as all the women in Alaska who were willing to show up and tell the rest of us in the lower 48 that just because she governs their state, Palin doesn’t represent them. ]
You have no nuance , no subtlety, no grasp of context regarding Rezko , unrealizing that overt Obama’s ingratiation over a decade with this now convicted corrupt sleeze person questions Obama’s appalling judgement at best , and also appearing to allow this sleeze into backdoor financing his own private home , and his negligent governance over where he get his money at best..even after Rezko was publicly being queried
Fact that in reponse to my New York Times link in #393 detailng Rezko’s shady dealings & long term close financial association with Obama , you so childishly posted your #403 falsely stating it “was Rezko data in my twisted mind” , rather TH ACTUAL TRUTH that its a journalistic investigation Report by th New York Times , demonstrates an willingness to uncredibily ignore facts & data that is adverse on your candidate 9Obama) & feline
I of course always had a secondary source (ABC News below although not as detailed)
Your lack of impartiality & credibility of your #403 post vs New York Times & ABC News is obvious , except to your ‘friends’ here , (especially as I’d already posted th NYK link in #393 beforehand)
Sooner or later objective people will read my info & draw similar conclusions to my first paragraph
The republicans might be pulling the other sure-fire election losing tactic – annoying the journalists. Another article in the NY Times points out that Palin is being shielded from the press (to avoid embarrassing slips?). It seems she hasn’t done a singe press conference in several weeks! during a campaign!! Even Dan Quayle got more scrutiny.
Socrates,
Or, they could be giving the finger to the pro-Obama press. Nixon apparently did the same in 1972 and won.
Some of these polls are starting to look rather ominous for McCain. You wonder how he could possibly turn it around now.
[Or, they could be giving the finger to the pro-Obama press. Nixon apparently did the same in 1972 and won]
No. They have been pretty much giving it to all of them, only allowing photographers to most of her appearances.
Whether shielding Palin is genius or fear, the effect will be the same. A whole White House press corps makes their living reporting on the candidates on campaign, which is now. A lack of access to Palin will make it difficult for them to write about her, and that will annoy them.
That’s right Ron – he’s also a witch. Goody Williams and Mary Warren told me so.
[A lack of access to Palin will make it difficult for them to write about her, and that will annoy them]
They’ll just stop covering her. I don’t think they will care if all the media do the same.
” Possum
#434
Posted Wednesday, September 24, 2008 at 10:28 pm | Permalink
“That’s right Ron – he’s also a witch. Goody Williams and Mary Warren told me so.”
Possum
#403
“Posted Wednesday, September 24, 2008 at 4:52 pm | Permalink
Ron, Rezko is only data in your own twisted mind. He’s just a typical grubby political cling-on of the type that infests every political system. That’s politics, especially in the US where the money/politics nexus is so obscene.
Like most of these googled facts of yours, there ain’t a great lot of gravitas to them.
We know YOU THINK tObama is (choose as many as necessary) terrorist sympathiser, weatherman double agent, corrupt financial broker, election manipulator, alien, satan and puppy eater.
But the way you carry on – it’s ridiculous.”
RON:
Possum my post #428 answered your comment in COMPARISON to your #403 and now #434 posts , suggest re read it with non Obama slanted views
Possum
#428
“You have no nuance , no subtlety, no grasp of context regarding Rezko , unrealizing that overt Obama’s ingratiation over a decade with this now convicted corrupt sleeze person questions Obama’s appalling judgement at best , and also appearing to allow this sleeze into backdoor financing his own private home , and his negligent governance over where he get his money at best..even after Rezko was publicly being queried
Fact that in reponse to my New York Times link in #393 detailng Rezko’s shady dealings & long term close financial association with Obama , you so childishly posted your #403 falsely stating it “was Rezko data in my twisted mind” , rather TH ACTUAL TRUTH that its a journalistic investigation Report by th New York Times , demonstrates an willingness to uncredibily ignore facts & data that is adverse on your candidate 9Obama) & feline
I of course always had a secondary source (ABC News below although not as detailed)
Your lack of impartiality & credibility of your #403 post vs New York Times & ABC News is obvious , except to your ‘friends’ here , (especially as I’d already posted th NYK link in #393 beforehand)
Sooner or later objective people will read my info & draw similar conclusions to my first paragraph”
BTW – you’ve won a Crikey sub for getting the Newspoll contest right. Drop me a mail and we’ll sort out the details.
Cheers Poss
I just dropped you an email
Whereas I’m armed , with my NYT & ABC News facts waiting
Possum
You could have made your comment to Nate a bit more brief! You do know that the first person tey will suspect if Obama gets whacked is the person who tippde everyone off.
For anyone interested in a plot to kill Obama which has been uncovered by Mate and Possum, go to Possums website along with the CIA, FBI and Secret Service. And you all think I’m joking.
PS On second thoughts, wouldn’t it be ASIO who raids you? I can see the headline in the “OO” now.
“Subversive Blogger in Plot to Assassinate Obama”
And that’s the thanks I get for debunking fallacies of poorly understood Intrade data!
What’s the world coming to I ask 😀
“What’s the world coming to I ask ”
people who faced with NYT and ABC News facts demolishing there arguments , trying to salvage credibility by silence
Serious doubts are being raised about whether Paulson actually knows how to fix this mess.
Possum: the thanks you get is a name for the TV show you might make one day. “The O’Possum Factor”… c’mon, it’ll be a hoot. 😛
Ron
Rezko is not an issue-if it was obama would be toast by now.Think back to the shite they tried to lay on pjk and who he knew-piggeries anyone
Mccain and palin are the ones who deserve the real scrutiny as i doubt that the US MSM are much different to ours and are shielding their deficiencies and creating “phantom issues” like rezko to taint obama
For good or bad, the Republican strategy is to play Palin below the radar. They are playing straight dog whistle politics, excluding the media and communicating directly with the voters.
Gus
Issue of fitness for office, judgement , governance & character apply seeing this is most powerful position on earth , otherwise nothing pre this year on McCain should logicvally be raised either on his character etc So I think is therefore relevant on those 4 grounds
Both candidates hav attritube problems , and seeing 99% of posters do a job on exposing McCain’s and Palins , my additions ar hardly necessary
But there needs to be balance irrspective of people’s partisan views , and NYT journalistic investigation & ABC News Reports ar credible sources raising those issues , which todate today hav resulted in shooting th messenger (me) who has reported those storys , rather than th issues raised in them
…and that standard today , that was unchallenged by all posters here is remarkable But th NYT journalistic investigation & ABC News Reports still stand as legitimate criticisms of Obama on 4 grounds
Ron – I’ve read the articles and all I see is a grubby operator that tried to surround himself with political power via fundraising, and an obsessed poster trying to prove that it means Obama eats puppies… or something.
If politicians being legally involved with dubious fundraisers is a shooting offence, Rudd should be gone over Burke, Howard gone over the Brethren, Bligh gone over some of the QLD real estate developers, Brumby gone over some quite nasty union chaps and and the entire NSW Labor Party would be forced to walk the plank – the majority of Australia’s politicians end up being involved with such dross at some stage of their careers, because wealthy, opportunistic dross has a habit of trying to hang around power in this country (like it does everywhere else) like it’s some kind of mutated aphrodesiac.
But with Obama, to you it’s all different – why, because you need it to be different because you’re obsessed.
……and quite frankly off with the fairies.
No one gives a shit about Rezko because there’s nothing to it. If there was, it would have moved beyond a Republican talking point memo back in early 2008 to a scandal getting wall to wall coverage.
But it hasnt – the only coverage it’s still receiving is with sad, bitter old PUMA loons and local posters that seemingly need to derail threads with increasingly outrageous claims of Obama misdemeanors. What was it this morning? Oh that’s right – he was best friends or something with the worst American terrorist EVAH!…. or some piffle.
Get over it Ron – Clinton lost. Meds available at your nearest pharmacy.
Paul at 352 – just havin fun and seems your adding to it.
Socrates
“why do you call liberals elitist?”
I’ll answer that , but my stance varys somewhat in degree from Paul Nash’s
Obama talking about millions of working familys in Pennsyvania & other mid west towns
And he is talking ABOUT them behind there back 3,000 kilometres away to affluent fund raisers in San Francisco on 5/4/08 , and reported in ALL credible US media:
“And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.”
ONLY an elitist would regard those words as completely non elitist , whatever there context
There ar in my view “elitist liberals” , and some “non elitist liberals” Obama is a “elitist Liberal ” and above demonstrates
I don’t mind non elitist suporting Obama despite this be they non eleitist “liberals” or otherwise , but I do question objectivity of those who deny flatly deny or ignore Obama is a “elitist liberal” & support him
Ron, Rezko is only data in your own twisted mind. He’s just a typical grubby political cling-on of the type that infests every political system. That’s politics, especially in the US where the money/politics nexus is so obscene.
Like most of these googled facts of yours, there ain’t a great lot of gravitas to them.
We know you think Obama is (choose as many as necessary) terrorist sympathiser, weatherman double agent, corrupt financial broker, election manipulator, alien, satan and puppy eater.
But the way you carry on – it’s ridiculous.
Ron
Its the cheap generalising ad hominen attacks I object to, as well as the other points in my posts to JN. They (extreme right wing conservatives) use “elitist liberal” or “leftist liberal” as a standard descriptor and form of attack. I don’t think its reasonable. Some liberals are elitist, but many are not. I sometimes wonder if its just a resentful backlash against educated liberals from those who did less well in their own education. Even so, I don’t assume all conservatives are dumber than George W Bush and would appreciate a similar lack of branding in return. Edmund Burke was one of my favourite political philosophers.
Also I am not an Obama fan anyway, but given what has happened under the incumbent republican adminstration over the past 8 years, I’d like to see a little more balance and honesty coming from conservatives. If I can admit that NSW Labor is an embarrassment, then its time they did the same with their republican failures. There are some conservatives I respect thes days, but not as many as I’d like.
Possum
You are wrong about Rezko. There’s plenty of data about it like how important it is to American voters. Outside of the Faux News room and Rush Limbaugh’s studio, the percentage of US voters who think Rezko is a significant issue in the election is pretty steady. The sample of registered voters was about 100 million and here are the results;
0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0
Can you work out the MOE on that? I make it out to be zero, but I’m not an expert.
I can’t seem to find the link for that data. I’ll post it later. It’s in my Heiner Affair folder. 😀
lol Dio! Love it 🙂
I don’t understand why liberal elitism is a bad word. I strive to be the best at whatever I’m doing, I’m certainly liberal – slightly to the libertarian end of the spectrum rather than the left liberal end and to anyone that reckons that’s a nasty thing – you can chew on my furry bits.
The last thing this country needs is another dose of superficial f**ktardery that tries to denegrate either achievement or a belief that the governments fist should stop where my nose starts.
(I’ll get off the soapbox – who’s turn next?)
I’m happy to get on that soapbox now, Possum. All this “liberal, “elitist” and “intelligentsia” crap really is funny. It panders to the herd of the population who are embittered by their poor education and lack of intellectual faculties. To think that being (a) more intelligent and (b) better educated is a bad thing beggars belief.
Brand new ABC News/Washington Post Poll
OBAMA 52
MCFAKE 43
9 points – is this the biggest poll lead Obama has had in a while?
O’Possum Factor
#403
Rezko is data in your own twisted mind that IS reported in th “New York Times” from an journalistic NYT investigative team …which has far more credibility than you sitting in Queensland knowing little if anything about th subject
But the way you carried on in response to this credible NYT data is ridiculous & feline to any reasonable poster , you having made an unsubstantiated Rezko comment only to look foolish & uncredible when viewed against th NYT info
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/14/us/politics/14rezko.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
Evan, neither Kerry (04) nor Gore (00) had any polls before Election Day where their Democratic numbers started with 5* …….. That in itself should be your first clue that we are heading in the right direction 😉 ……
Possum, any room up on the perch at your end of the political spectrum? I’ll take a seat up there, please, with you, we can perch together 😉
True Poss; perhaps it is the anti-intellectual bit in conservatism I dislike the most. I suppose its the part of me that regrets the loss of Australia’s dead spirit of egalitarianism that reacts most to such comments.
[only to look foolish & uncredible]
Ron I think you just described yourself
Socrates
$404
After you’ve read #403 , perhaps you wish not to further reply without being tainted
In response to your #404 actual post , there is nothing at all in it I disagree with inclufding re NSW Labor
Regarding Obama’s 5/4/08 San Francisco speech that I quoted from in #402 , I’d re post my view that ONLY an elitist would regard those Obama’s words as completely non elitist , whatever there context Not sure if you concur , (notwithstanding my later comment that support or non support for Obama should not rest on that alone anyway)
I’m not denying that Rezko existed or that he tried to worm his way into a sphere of influence with politicians Ron!
The difference here is that I’m neither surpised nor concerned because that exact thing happens everyday, in every political system, but particularly in the US because of the nature that fundraising plays – whereas it is making you have kittens because you seem to really,really want to believe that Obama is the antichrist.
You have no nuance Ron, no subtlety, no grasp of context – it’s just headline hysteria and to be honest it’s not only really bloody annoying but makes any mildly complex political discussion almost impossible.
juliem – it’s a big tree, take a seat you child eating liberal elitist you!
Poss and juliem I might have to ask for a branch on that tree too after all. Perhaps we can get a good view of the republican defeat in November that seems likely now.
Upon reflection, the whole Obama vs McCain thing is a little unfortuante. it isn’t just them that are being elected, but a whole army of respective republican hangers-on or democrat hangers-on. After Bush it is quite simple, the republican hangers-on have to go IMO. Any republican successor will never be allowed to remove the incompetents and preosecute the guilty to the extent needed. So I definitely hope Obama wins.
That’s spot on Socrates – at any election with a major party system, you aren’t really electing an individual, you’re electing a party with all the baggage that party carries with it *first and foremost*.
Oh – and have a seat, mind the knots – they can be awkward 🙂
Rudd and Murdoch were just on the news (not together) saying the bailout should go ahead. Murdoch said something that I’m getting really fed up with. The line the neocons are using is “In principle I don’t like it but I think we should bailout the banks.” So these guys principles aren’t really worth very much. I haven’t heard a single one say “Our principle is not to bail out so we shouldn’t bail out.”
And the FBI is investigating Fannie May, Freddie Mac, Lehman’s and AIG.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080924/D93CP7MG0.html
Au Contraire Dio – their principles are worth quite a bit.
About $700 billion as a round figure 😀
McCain caught lying yet again. Has this man a single shred of decency left? He’s been lying about the relationship between Freddie Mac and his campaign manager. He denied vehemently that there was one since 2005. Now it turns out that a company owned by Rick Davis has been receiving $15,000 a month from Freddie since 2005 until one month ago. That should go down well in the debate. 😉
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/23/freddie-mac-paid-mccain-c_n_128770.html
Speaking of the upcoming debate 😉 …..
[ The Foreign Policy Debate is supposed to be right in McCain’s sweet spot. But I believe foreign policy is McCain’s weak spot, one that has not been exploited, but one that I believe Obama will pounce on on Friday night. ….. 2. Personal history – John McCain is a war hero, we all know that, and there is no need to mention it again. Sen. Obama is awfully deferential in mentioning this point. It needs not be restated, unless Sen. Obama thinks that mentioning it will piss of McCain and cause him to lose his cool. McCain may see it as condescending. But otherwise, Sen. Obama, let it go.
3. Year of Experience – Donald Rumsfeld and Dick Cheney had years of experience. We all thought – many Democrats included – that their wisdom would serve this country well. In turns out that all it did was make them stubborn and they refused to see that we are in a new era, which means we have to fight in new ways. ]
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-littman/friday-nights-debate-how_b_128407.html
[ Did I also mention Senator Obama has a plan that includes NEW jobs for Detroit and a revitalization of the auto industry? Oh, and a nice plan for our Great Lakes just to put some icing on that cake….
No lies there. Just solid plans. Bold plans.
What did Michigan get from you, Senator McCain? A few speeches and stops at our nuclear (which your running mate can’t pronounce) plants.
Senator, you lied to Michigan. You lied to Detroit. You lied to my friends. You lied to my family.
And now they all know.]
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/erin-kotecki-vest/dear-senator-mccain-why-n_b_128799.html
Reading the following, I am glad that both Republicans and Democrats are standing up to this rubbish ….. The US has 3 separate branches of government for a #*$&#($*&#($&#( reason, checks and balances ….. How stupid does Bush think the American public is? If they need the bailout that badly, they need to get with the program and accept reasonable safeguards …..
[ A critical – and radical – component of the bailout package proposed by the Bush administration has thus far failed to garner the serious attention of anyone in the press. Section 8 (which ironically reminds one of the popular name of the portion of the 1937 Housing Act that paved the way for subsidized affordable housing ) of this legislation is just a single sentence of thirty-two words, but it represents a significant consolidation of power and an abdication of oversight authority that’s so flat-out astounding that it ought to set one’s hair on fire. It reads, in its entirety:
Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.
In short, the so-called “mother of all bailouts,” which will transfer $700 billion taxpayer dollars to purchase the distressed assets of several failed financial institutions, will be conducted in a manner unchallengeable by courts and ungovernable by the People’s duly sworn representatives. All decision-making power will be consolidated into the Executive Branch – who, we remind you, will have the incentive to act upon this privilege as quickly as possible, before they leave office. The measure will run up the budget deficit by a significant amount, with no guarantee of recouping the outlay, and no fundamental means of holding those who fail to do so accountable.]
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/22/dirty-secret-of-the-bailo_n_128294.html
Possum and Socrates, ….. the only election [outside of Kevin07] that I have ever been able to get happy and excited about was Clinton’s first election in 1992. I was sitting on the couch that evening watching election returns and had two men sitting on either side of me. I voted for Clinton. On my left was the Bush voter. On my right was the independant voter for Ross Perot. It was absolutely sweet that night as the states came in more and more blue, I was smiling from ear to ear and both men had sour faces.
417,
Socrates (and Possum),
[ After Bush it is quite simple, the republican hangers-on have to go IMO. Any republican successor will never be allowed to remove the incompetents and preosecute the guilty to the extent needed. So I definitely hope Obama wins.]
I STRONGLY suggest the following book if you haven’t already heard about it. Title -Obama’s Challenge – America’s Economic Crisis and the Power of a Transformative Presidency by Robert Kuttner. Publishing date of September 2008 although it mentions the Freddie and Fannie bailouts so it is REALLY recent and up to date. I purchased it through Amazon.com in the USA. Including shipping, it costs between $18 to $25 Aussie. Rough guess pending the current exchange rates as opposed to when I purchased it. Once you order it, it takes about 2 1/2 weeks or so to get here. I’ll quote one reviewers comments from the back cover – “Kuttner pulls off the all-but-impossible. He hits the high notes with artful precision, lifting expectations and articulating the steps that can make Barack Obama a great president – while setting forth a strong and highly readable call for comprehensive and essential economic change.”
[ September 24, 2008
Alaskans Protesting Palin
When Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin returned to her home state, she got a “welcome back” that she wasn’t expecting. The Alaska Women Rejecting Palin protest grew from a handful of women talking about the perception of universal Alaskan support for Palin to an event that is being called the largest political rally in Anchorage history. Attendance estimates range from just under 1,000 to more than 1,500 people (less than 100 people were estimated to have formed a counter-protest in support of Palin).
You may feel that a simple protest shouldn’t qualify people for awards. But after reading about ordinary Alaskans refusing to talk on record about Palin to reporters, it’s clear that showing one’s face at such an event could have negative repercussions. According to Amanda Coyne, who covered the event for Alaska Dispatch, state workers would not speak on the record, and some even felt the need to disguise their identities for fear of reprisal. But others actually feared for their own safety.
Charla Sterne and Ilona Bessenyey organized the event. Prior to the rally, they were identified on air by a conservative talk radio host named Eddie Burke, who called them “socialist, baby-killing maggots” and gave out their personal cell phone numbers. The women received angry, threatening, and profane phone calls from many of Burke’s listeners.
Burke was suspended without pay for one week, but his radio station manager remarked, “We attempt to respect everyone’s First Amendment rights, including Eddie Burke’s.” Apparently Burke’s listeners don’t realize that the right to peaceably assemble is in that same amendment.
We would like to reward the bravery of these two women as well as all the women in Alaska who were willing to show up and tell the rest of us in the lower 48 that just because she governs their state, Palin doesn’t represent them. ]
http://wingsofjustice.com/08/09/woj08039.html
O’Possum Factor
You have no nuance , no subtlety, no grasp of context regarding Rezko , unrealizing that overt Obama’s ingratiation over a decade with this now convicted corrupt sleeze person questions Obama’s appalling judgement at best , and also appearing to allow this sleeze into backdoor financing his own private home , and his negligent governance over where he get his money at best..even after Rezko was publicly being queried
Fact that in reponse to my New York Times link in #393 detailng Rezko’s shady dealings & long term close financial association with Obama , you so childishly posted your #403 falsely stating it “was Rezko data in my twisted mind” , rather TH ACTUAL TRUTH that its a journalistic investigation Report by th New York Times , demonstrates an willingness to uncredibily ignore facts & data that is adverse on your candidate 9Obama) & feline
I of course always had a secondary source (ABC News below although not as detailed)
Your lack of impartiality & credibility of your #403 post vs New York Times & ABC News is obvious , except to your ‘friends’ here , (especially as I’d already posted th NYK link in #393 beforehand)
Sooner or later objective people will read my info & draw similar conclusions to my first paragraph
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/14/us/politics/14rezko.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/WireStory?id=4171763&page=1
The republicans might be pulling the other sure-fire election losing tactic – annoying the journalists. Another article in the NY Times points out that Palin is being shielded from the press (to avoid embarrassing slips?). It seems she hasn’t done a singe press conference in several weeks! during a campaign!! Even Dan Quayle got more scrutiny.
Socrates,
Or, they could be giving the finger to the pro-Obama press. Nixon apparently did the same in 1972 and won.
Some of these polls are starting to look rather ominous for McCain. You wonder how he could possibly turn it around now.
[Or, they could be giving the finger to the pro-Obama press. Nixon apparently did the same in 1972 and won]
No. They have been pretty much giving it to all of them, only allowing photographers to most of her appearances.
Whether shielding Palin is genius or fear, the effect will be the same. A whole White House press corps makes their living reporting on the candidates on campaign, which is now. A lack of access to Palin will make it difficult for them to write about her, and that will annoy them.
That’s right Ron – he’s also a witch. Goody Williams and Mary Warren told me so.
[A lack of access to Palin will make it difficult for them to write about her, and that will annoy them]
They’ll just stop covering her. I don’t think they will care if all the media do the same.
” Possum
#434
Posted Wednesday, September 24, 2008 at 10:28 pm | Permalink
“That’s right Ron – he’s also a witch. Goody Williams and Mary Warren told me so.”
Possum
#403
“Posted Wednesday, September 24, 2008 at 4:52 pm | Permalink
Ron, Rezko is only data in your own twisted mind. He’s just a typical grubby political cling-on of the type that infests every political system. That’s politics, especially in the US where the money/politics nexus is so obscene.
Like most of these googled facts of yours, there ain’t a great lot of gravitas to them.
We know YOU THINK tObama is (choose as many as necessary) terrorist sympathiser, weatherman double agent, corrupt financial broker, election manipulator, alien, satan and puppy eater.
But the way you carry on – it’s ridiculous.”
RON:
Possum my post #428 answered your comment in COMPARISON to your #403 and now #434 posts , suggest re read it with non Obama slanted views
Possum
#428
“You have no nuance , no subtlety, no grasp of context regarding Rezko , unrealizing that overt Obama’s ingratiation over a decade with this now convicted corrupt sleeze person questions Obama’s appalling judgement at best , and also appearing to allow this sleeze into backdoor financing his own private home , and his negligent governance over where he get his money at best..even after Rezko was publicly being queried
Fact that in reponse to my New York Times link in #393 detailng Rezko’s shady dealings & long term close financial association with Obama , you so childishly posted your #403 falsely stating it “was Rezko data in my twisted mind” , rather TH ACTUAL TRUTH that its a journalistic investigation Report by th New York Times , demonstrates an willingness to uncredibily ignore facts & data that is adverse on your candidate 9Obama) & feline
I of course always had a secondary source (ABC News below although not as detailed)
Your lack of impartiality & credibility of your #403 post vs New York Times & ABC News is obvious , except to your ‘friends’ here , (especially as I’d already posted th NYK link in #393 beforehand)
Sooner or later objective people will read my info & draw similar conclusions to my first paragraph”
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/14/us/politics/14rezko.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/WireStory?id=4171763&page=1
poss
a male witch is a warlock
…..resume combat
Ta gus – but no point. Unarmed opponent.
BTW – you’ve won a Crikey sub for getting the Newspoll contest right. Drop me a mail and we’ll sort out the details.
Cheers Poss
I just dropped you an email
Whereas I’m armed , with my NYT & ABC News facts waiting
Possum
You could have made your comment to Nate a bit more brief! You do know that the first person tey will suspect if Obama gets whacked is the person who tippde everyone off.
For anyone interested in a plot to kill Obama which has been uncovered by Mate and Possum, go to Possums website along with the CIA, FBI and Secret Service. And you all think I’m joking.
PS On second thoughts, wouldn’t it be ASIO who raids you? I can see the headline in the “OO” now.
“Subversive Blogger in Plot to Assassinate Obama”
And that’s the thanks I get for debunking fallacies of poorly understood Intrade data!
What’s the world coming to I ask 😀
“What’s the world coming to I ask ”
people who faced with NYT and ABC News facts demolishing there arguments , trying to salvage credibility by silence
A very good article from Paul Krugman (Princeton economist) on whats wrong with Paulson’s bail out plan here:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/09/22/opinion/edkrugman.php
Serious doubts are being raised about whether Paulson actually knows how to fix this mess.
Possum: the thanks you get is a name for the TV show you might make one day. “The O’Possum Factor”… c’mon, it’ll be a hoot. 😛
Ron
Rezko is not an issue-if it was obama would be toast by now.Think back to the shite they tried to lay on pjk and who he knew-piggeries anyone
Mccain and palin are the ones who deserve the real scrutiny as i doubt that the US MSM are much different to ours and are shielding their deficiencies and creating “phantom issues” like rezko to taint obama
For good or bad, the Republican strategy is to play Palin below the radar. They are playing straight dog whistle politics, excluding the media and communicating directly with the voters.
Gus
Issue of fitness for office, judgement , governance & character apply seeing this is most powerful position on earth , otherwise nothing pre this year on McCain should logicvally be raised either on his character etc So I think is therefore relevant on those 4 grounds
Both candidates hav attritube problems , and seeing 99% of posters do a job on exposing McCain’s and Palins , my additions ar hardly necessary
But there needs to be balance irrspective of people’s partisan views , and NYT journalistic investigation & ABC News Reports ar credible sources raising those issues , which todate today hav resulted in shooting th messenger (me) who has reported those storys , rather than th issues raised in them
…and that standard today , that was unchallenged by all posters here is remarkable But th NYT journalistic investigation & ABC News Reports still stand as legitimate criticisms of Obama on 4 grounds
Ron – I’ve read the articles and all I see is a grubby operator that tried to surround himself with political power via fundraising, and an obsessed poster trying to prove that it means Obama eats puppies… or something.
If politicians being legally involved with dubious fundraisers is a shooting offence, Rudd should be gone over Burke, Howard gone over the Brethren, Bligh gone over some of the QLD real estate developers, Brumby gone over some quite nasty union chaps and and the entire NSW Labor Party would be forced to walk the plank – the majority of Australia’s politicians end up being involved with such dross at some stage of their careers, because wealthy, opportunistic dross has a habit of trying to hang around power in this country (like it does everywhere else) like it’s some kind of mutated aphrodesiac.
But with Obama, to you it’s all different – why, because you need it to be different because you’re obsessed.
……and quite frankly off with the fairies.
No one gives a shit about Rezko because there’s nothing to it. If there was, it would have moved beyond a Republican talking point memo back in early 2008 to a scandal getting wall to wall coverage.
But it hasnt – the only coverage it’s still receiving is with sad, bitter old PUMA loons and local posters that seemingly need to derail threads with increasingly outrageous claims of Obama misdemeanors. What was it this morning? Oh that’s right – he was best friends or something with the worst American terrorist EVAH!…. or some piffle.
Get over it Ron – Clinton lost. Meds available at your nearest pharmacy.
Obama now up by 2 on Rasmussen