A big week of polling, with the weekly Essential, fortnightly Newspoll and YouGov and monthly ReachTEL landing all at once, and their combined effect is to shake the BludgerTrack aggregate out of its lethargy with a solid move to Labor. The two contributors to this were Newspoll, whose 53-47 to 54-46 movement this fortnight is almost precisely replicated by BludgerTrack, but also by ReachTEL, whose primary vote numbers were a lot worse for the Coalition than the 52-48 two-party headline suggested. All of which causes Labor to gain four on the seat projection, including one apiece in each of the four largest states. The Coalition has taken a particularly heavy hit on the primary vote, but it’s One Nation rather than Labor that has yielded the advantage. A new set of leadership numbers from Newspoll sends both leaders downwards on the net satisfaction trend, with Bill Shorten gaining fractionally on preferred prime minister.
TallebudgeraLurker @ #761 Monday, August 28th, 2017 – 8:54 am
If you did one cycle a day for 10 years you’d probably* get 10 years out of them. Depending on the level of storage degradation you were prepared to accept, they could last a lot longer. There are also ways of managing the use of the battery which would result in a significantly extended life, for example if you only routinely went to 50% depth of discharge they’d last a lot longer.
* “Probably” because the newest chemistry’s of Lithium have not been around very long and the expected useful working lives of them are based on laboratory testing and simulations of various types, nobody yet knows 100% for sure how long the batteries will last.
Player One @ #808 Monday, August 28th, 2017 – 1:07 pm
I wish it were my big battery but alas I am only a civil engineer, not a financier with mountains of money. Considering the design/service life of the proposed Snowy 2 ‘big battery’ at 80 to 100 years (or even more with major rotating machine and electrical equipment renewals), its input power will come from the cheapest source. The sooner it is renewables the better, but if it is coal powered (during their swansong) or gas powered in the short term is, in my opinion, ‘by the by’ (arguments on what should replace coal power ASAP put to one side for this discussion).
What astounds me is that the federal government is led by, supposedly , one of Australia’s foremost legal practitioners, so you think that, at his core, he would respect the rule of law and the Constitution.
Instead all he seems to care about is saving his political skin and keeping the Conservative dogs at bay in his government.
grimace @ #852 Monday, August 28th, 2017 – 2:48 pm
Thanks Grimace
I note the recent reporting of an Australian scientific breakthrough in an alternate type of battery technology involving zinc IIRC. I haven’t gone looking today to reference it.
Whatever happen with Snowy 2, the financial assessment by Snowy Hydro needs to be flawless – unlike those which tend to surround road tunnel projects and the expected patronage. I would hope that their forward projections on the cost of alternate storage technologies are robust.
Malcolm Farr
http://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/turnbull-struggles-to-escape-harmful-political-grip-of-citizenship-and-ssm-debates/news-story/a6e05684a67050870f6e92198ca4ae61
TallebudgeraLurker @ #852 Monday, August 28th, 2017 – 12:50 pm
I know pretty much nothing about the Snowy hydro scheme, or pumped storage generally. From what I’ve seen in the media this project is going to take enormous engineering effort, and is going to be very technically complex.
I can’t help but think there are more cost effective ways to achieve what we want, and sooner, despite liking the idea of a massive expansion of the hydro scheme.
TallebudgeraLurker @ #854 Monday, August 28th, 2017 – 1:00 pm
I stopped paying attention to the headlines around emerging battery technologies not long after I was involved in making commercial assessments of projects involving them. There are a number of new battery technologies that have been “6 months away from commercialisation!!!!” for years.
Mercury @themercurycomau
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8m
Premier Will Hodgman has added his name to a list of political conservatives campaigning for same-sex marriage.
@GuardianAus
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9m
Malcolm Turnbull pledges more funds for Snowy Hydro 2.0 as Labor attacks ‘gas crisis’
Does that mean Turnbull hasn’t explicitly endorsed a side in the postal survey farce yet?
An untrue blue gathering
[ (Shellbell) you are invited to attend the
Justice 4 Refugees Cocktail Evening
On behalf of the Refugee Advice & Casework Service (RACS),
the New South Wales Bar Association invites you to be our guest
at the Justice 4 Refugees (J4R) Cocktail Evening on:
Wednesday 11 October 2017
5.30pm to 7.30pm
NSW Bar Association Common Room
Basement, 174 Phillip Street SYDNEY NSW 200
Guest Speakers include:
The Hon Michael Kirby AC CMG
and
Emeritus Professor Gillian Triggs]
Federal Politics @PoliticsFairfax
·
6m
Gangland widow Roberta Williams wants to run against Bill Shorten, despite being bankrupt and ineligible
Being ineligible is no barrier. The Turnbull government has demonstrated that clearly enough. Hell, she’d probably make it into cabinet with those credentials. Eligibility is only for the plebs.
Elena Collinson @elenacollinson
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33m
Trump, reportedly, to CoS Kelly re CN trade: ‘I want tariffs.And I want someone to bring me some tariffs’ via @axios
Bludgers,
Scott Morrison is correct in Lizzie’s link below, they are drilling in the Snowy Mountains. BUT is is only 100 or 150 mm diameter vertical core drilled boreholes to validate the underground rock geology. Now if they were incline drilling an 8 m diameter tunnel, they would really be underway.
My gut feel estimate of the likelihood of the project proceeding is 75 % but I am an optimist – you all know it makes sense LOL.
@TallebudgeraLurker
Wouldn’t care if they were drilling or not.
The fact it will be out of date by the time it is finished and like their Fraudband project will not be any benefit to Australians.
LNP loosing in polls?
@Birmo
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22m
Vote YES to support love, respect and stable relationships @LibsNatsYes
shellbell,
I certainly hope you shall decline the invitation to such a subversive event.
Equality and human rights.
What could be more unAustralian than that?
p.s. You lucky, lucky bastard.
TallebudgeraLurker @ #846 Monday, August 28th, 2017 – 2:33 pm
I have faith in GOBs. Right up until the point the Coalition nobbles them. Having NSW and Vic in the mix helps keep Snowy Hydro from going down the path the ABC and NBN have already descended, but it’s no guarantee.
The point of course is that we had arms length non political tools for issues like this. Carbon Pricing and Infrastructure Australia for a start. Of course the vandals in government have either destroyed or sidelined these for their own ideological folly.
I have zero faith in anything this government proposes or endorses because I have a memory that goes back further than a few moments. Nothing these morons have done has been for anyone’s real benefit. The fact they would be this useless in government was obvious from their behaviour in opposition right back to Nelson.
Snowjob 2.0 could well be a great idea and the best use of our resources. But if it is it will be pure dumb blind luck. Trumble has grabbed it to try and win some poll brownie points and to use as a stick to beat SA with. It’s a deflection. The quality of the proposal has less than nothing to do with him clinging to it. In fact going on Trumble’s record the mere fact he is so hot for it should make any sane person start from the position that it is a disastrous idea unless and until incontrovertible evidence is provided otherwise.
Dutton wrong again:
NSW Bar President @NSWBarPresident
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8m
Minister Dutton is wrong. Lawyers act pro bono because legal representation is not only for the powerful or popular
Voters fearing drug testing:
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-28/fears-for-mental-health-if-mandurah-welfare-drug-tests-go-ahead/8847836?pfmredir=sm
http://www.michellerowland.com.au/media_release_statement_on_cbs_agreement_to_purchase_network_ten_28_august_2017
“Having asserted for months that it was essential to repeal the 2 out 3 cross-media control rule in order to save Network Ten, the question now is whether Malcolm Turnbull will pursue his Faustian pact with One Nation to inflict atrocities on the ABC and SBS in return for their vote – not to mention Nick Xenophon being embedded in negotiations to cut a deal on repeal of the 2 out of 3 rule.”
Onus is now on LNP and One Nation.
a r @ #862 Monday, August 28th, 2017 – 4:12 pm
At the very least onto Matthew Guy’s front bench. : )
C@tmomma @ #872 Monday, August 28th, 2017 – 4:31 pm
Cutting out the middle mafia
Vile spitting coming out of Duttons mouth once again:
Sky News Australia @SkyNewsAust
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9m
.@PeterDutton_MP: people smugglers will use Labor’s position as a sign Australia is ‘open for business.’ MORE:
TallebudgeraLurker @ #854 Monday, August 28th, 2017 – 3:00 pm
Zinc Air Battery, been around and in use for a fair while (hearing aids, rail signalling), are cheaper due to the relative abundance of zinc compared to lithium, and theoretically can store 5x more energy…
The issue is they are quite tricky to recharge, and thus often single use.
U-Syd have been working on the recharging problem.
http://sydney.edu.au/news-opinion/news/2017/08/15/university-of-sydney-charges-ahead-on-zinc-air-batteries.html
Zoidlord
The fact it will be out of date by the time it is finished and like their Fraudband project will not be any benefit to Australians.
Turnbull has form as a snake oil salesman, rain man is now electro man, provider of cheap renewable electricity at no cost to the government, consumer of business. Free, free electricity for all, the rain will fall, the turbines will turn and we will all be electrified, yeah baby.
But in the second week of the campaign, Mr Turnbull found the time to announce that the Government, already in caretaker mode, would bankroll to the tune of $10 million the investigation of an untried Russian technology that aims to trigger rainfall from the atmosphere, even when there are no clouds.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2007-11-20/turnbull-pumps-10m-into-rainmaking-gamble/731004
Note the Russian connection. Maybe they were pissed off when this did not go ahead and came over to grafittie a few statues.
You know it makes sense.
It would be a dream come true to remove Goodenough from Moore.
Leave him there, he stands out as a magnet for voters in other electorates on why not to vote LNP.
85 deg F is not hot. We got sent home at 100 deg F; it would seem your lithium battery goes home at 85deg F.
https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/pressroom/newsreleases/2013/april/understanding-the-life-of-lithium-ion-batteries-in-electric-vehicles.html
An untrue blue gathering
Very, very nice, looking forward to a full report of this.
Sankey v Whitlam was the case I was thinking of the other day, wondering if someone could run a similar case on Turnbull, Morrison et al unauthorised spending etc,. But it involved different issues.
dole bludging drug sniffing layabouts and renewable energy, there is a connection.
Put the layabouts to work on treadmills, get fit, get healthy, no do drugs, free electricity.
zoidlord @ #868 Monday, August 28th, 2017 – 4:19 pm
Zoidlord,
I doubt very much that it will ever be out of date in my lifetime or in yours. The baseload energy for society’s needs including heavy industry needs to be provided somehow.
Have a look at the web page referenced below that provides real time energy usage (excluding WA and NT) over the last 24 hours at:
http://anero.id/energy/
Scroll down to “Today’s Energy Production by Source” and look at the units: they are 1000s of MWs, the minimum was about 19,000 MW at 4:00 am this morning, the maximum was 27,000 MW at about 7:00 pm last night. Most of this power comes from coal – we need to replace it with something much more sustainable.
Now have a look at what hydro contributed over the last 24 hours at:
http://anero.id/energy/hydro-energy
Scroll down to “Today’s Hydro Energy Production” and click on the MW tab rather than the % tab. At 8:00 am this morning in the morning peak, 4,600 MW came from hydro. At 4:00 am, 1,500 MW of the 19,000 MW referenced above came from hydro.
You can also have a look at wind energy at:
http://anero.id/energy/wind-energy
As you can see wind has been underwhelming today.
You can also work out solar – generator side only not meter side (i.e. roof top PV, the output of which is not very well tracked at the moment) on the overall web page above. Solar at NEMO scale generation shows 240 MW between 11:00 am and 2:00 pm today, very low for the rest of the day. We need somewhere to store the daily peak of industrial scale power generation by renewables.
There are lots of armchair critics on PB; we should all be careful not to shitcan (sorry pass pre-mature judgement) on large scale ‘big batteries’ before the jury returns from considering if it is a good deal. I have learnt to look, read, assess, understand, check and double check before shitcaning something that is out of my specific field of expertise. On the other hand, I appreciate the input from LU and others who clearly have expertise in the area of high voltage power systems.
@ frednk
Note that that is saying performance is below 100% of rated performance when above 85 f. It doesn’t specify whether that involves it dropping to 99.9999%, or to 1%. So it’s absolutely useless.
Also, lol “The researchers considered a battery to be beyond its useful lifespan when it had lost 20 percent of its full power.”
Zeh @ #878 Monday, August 28th, 2017 – 4:38 pm
Zeh,
Thanks for the update, Australian scientists and engineers yet again beavering away on a solution – great stuff.
Penned by the man who has been living off government welfare for years and is too lazy to look for a proper job in the real world:
@TallebudgeraLurker
Renewable energy is not in LNP agenda, it’s doing hydro for the sake of getting energy crises off the news or distract from the current political dramas.
Renewable energy is not in LNP agenda, it’s doing hydro for the sake of getting energy crises off the news or distract from the current political dramas.
_______________________
It’s not doing hydro. Rather it’s using the hydro infrastructure to release energy stored from other as yet unnamed sources.
I am just wondering if the Bangladesh National Cricket Team has a High Performance Manager and if they do if he gets paid as much as Pat Howard does.
grimace @ #848 Monday, August 28th, 2017 – 2:35 pm
And you should do some basic research before commenting. From http://www.ecogeneration.com.au/why-pumped-hydro-beats-batteries-as-a-storage-solution/ …
So, even for “greenfields” installations, pumped hydro is 10 to 30 times cheaper than batteries per kWh. But Snowy 2.0 is far from being “greenfields”. And it is Snowy Hydro themselves who estimated “100 times”, not me. From http://www.snowyhydro.com.au/our-scheme/snowy20/snowy-2-0-faqs/ …
Sure, their estimate may be optimistic, but it is not out of the ballpark. Even if they are being a tad optimistic, it could easily end up being 50 times more cost-effective than buying (and replacing, and replacing, and replacing) an equivalent amount of batteries.
The three photos of Turnbull in this article have him posing in a similar manner to the way Kim Jong Un poses in photos released by North Korea.
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/power-companies-rebuke-turnbull-government-over-clean-energy-target-20170828-gy5i4m.html
@BK
Like a coal mine or two?
WA Liberals pass around the hat for money to finance their HC challenge on GST:
For Victoria, Confessions ……and other Schindler followers – after todays Sater/Moscow Trump WaPo revelations – fingers crossed, Mueller/hope springs eternal and soon
John SchindlerVerified account @20committee · 5h5 hours ago
Felix flipped, folks. As I told you a couple weeks ago. ALL of Team Trump is going down. For good. Won’t be pretty. But it will be awesome.
I told y’all the Lizard was coming….
Bill Palmers take :
This latest story, which has Donald Trump and convicted Russian mafia figure Felix Sater secretly conspiring to build Trump Tower in Moscow during the election, is a fairly major bombshell in its own right. It proves that Trump was seeking favor with Vladimir Putin during the election for financial reasons.
@p1
LOL laughable numbers 100 times?
Sounds very dodgy, very LNP type dodgy.
Here’s a picture that gives some perspective on how bad the floodwaters are in Houston.
Considering that LNP is use to making LARGE NUMBERS in their attacks against Labor such as the cost of FTTP NBN.
Then they make large numbers in Snowy 2.0 project,
This has DODGY written all over it!
Voice Endeavour
…
Also, lol “The researchers considered a battery to be beyond its useful lifespan when it had lost 20 percent of its full power.”
The way I read it life expectancy falls of at 85deg; as for the 20% reduction in capacity; I don’t think it is any laughing matter.
I know jack shit about lithium but I do know what you need to do to get 10 years out of lead acid.
1)Keep them charged.
2)Keep them cool.
Nobody seems to be saying they are going to outlast lead acid. They are claiming more cycles; but that is about it.
Talking of large numbers.
The Government’s IT bill.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-28/federal-governments-$10bn-bill-rivals-newstart-cost/8849562
A story on the radio today said that the floodwaters were forcing alligators to seek higher ground and meant that some people had alligators on their doorstep. Apparently if you don’t bother them, they won’t bother you.
I suppose having an alligator on your doorstep might deter the inevitable looters!
zoidlord @ #894 Monday, August 28th, 2017 – 5:30 pm
As I pointed out, it does sound optimistic, but it is not dodgy per se. It depends on how much Snowy 2.0 costs compared to a greenfields pumped hydro installation of a similar scale. If Snowy 2.0 could be done for 1/3 to 1/2 of the greenfields cost, 100 times more cost effective could be a realistic estimate.