A fairly pronounced narrowing in the Coalition’s lead may now be observed on the BludgerTrack poll aggregate charts, thanks mostly to an unusually soft result for the Turnbull government in this week’s Morgan result. This shows up as a 0.6% move to Labor on two-party preferred since last week, but it’s only made a slight difference on the seat projection, which credits the Coalition with a net gain of one seat since the 2013 election despite a 0.4% lower two-party vote. The aggregate also records a lift in support for the Greens, who had had some of the wind taken out of their sails when Malcolm Turnbull became Prime Minister. The addition of new figures from Essential Research to the leadership ratings results in essentially no change to an overall picture of Turnbull enjoying massive but nonetheless slightly reduced leads over Bill Shorten on both net approval and preferred prime minister.
shellbell @ 585,
‘ The Cunneen HC case was about power of ICAC not her innocence.’
I would have thought it was about the power of ICAC to test her guilt or innocence wrt the fact of her being a Public Servant, therefore within their remit.
victoria:
I think it goes without saying that most of us here would be cheering for Windsor.
victoria, 597
Does this mean that, in the case that Barnaby loses his seat, we’ll have a Nash Nationals leadership? That’d be interesting.
TPOF @ 600
Excellent post!
Player One@598
Refer to my 584.
If you require further explanation let me know, but be specific.
TPOF:
Well said!
government grappled with what to do. Treasurer Scott Morrison is a close friend of Mr Robert’s and has made a point of walking with him into question time each day as an act of solidarity. That was a strong signal.
On Monday, when the story first appeared, Mr Morrison called it a “ridiculous beat-up”.
Liberal Senator Arthur Sinodinos, one of the masterminds of the coup against Mr Abbott, told Radio National on Tuesday that Mr Robert had not broken the rules as long as “he has acted in accordance with the terms under which he undertook the trip” when it was approved by the office of former prime minister Tony Abbott.
Read more: http://www.afr.com/news/politics/stuart-robert-becomes-a-pawn-in-the-turnbullabbott-civil-war-20160211-gmrhz5#ixzz3zr9Wmjmz
Follow us: @FinancialReview on Twitter | financialreview on Facebook
[And we all know who the nasty person is.]
J. R. Ewing?
bemused
[ Refer to my 584. ]
I don’t see any relevance. Can you elucidate as to who the ‘nasty person’ is that you refer to? And why?
Airlines@603
Bring it on. 😀
At least she has a brain.
[Does this mean that, in the case that Barnaby loses his seat, we’ll have a Nash Nationals leadership? ]
Nash taking on the Old Boys of her party? I’d pay money to see that!
Wow the posting too fast thing happening now when there’s hardly anyone around is bloody annoying. What do youse all do during QT when there’re more people commenting? Or heaven forbid during an election night!
confessions
[
poroti:
Yes there is a fine line between joking and derision.]
Yes and online it can be easy to take the wrong intention. Some deride emoticons but they can help avoid such confusions and the resulting biff.
Player One@609
You behaviour over a period of time has earned you that title. But you do have a few challengers.
TPOF@555
Seems to me that it goes something like this: The voters definitely do not want Tony. So they handed it over to Malcolm.
But if Malcolm proves – for the second time – that he is unable to keep Tony sufficiently muzzled and leashed, then they will try the next option on the list, which is Bill.
Malcolm is not going to get a third chance from the voters. He is also too old in any case. This is his last shot at it, and he has just weeks to get it sorted, at most, before the momentum of his final push peters out.
bemused
[ You behaviour over a period of time has earned you that title. But you do have a few challengers. ]
So you must agree that feeney is right to demand that sexual identities should conform to his stereotypes?
Perhaps you can tell us what sexual stereotype you most identify with, and then feeney can tell us whether or not that is acceptable?
TPOF @ 600: For all that, ICAC deserves the highest praise for nailing the Obeids and Mr Macdonald. The thing about the big fish is that while you can establish that that’s what they are through ICAC style procedures, they almost always wind up getting convicted for something smaller, like Al Capone getting done for tax evasion. So your distinction between embedded corruption and one-offs may not be so useful in practice.
Personally I don’t have a problem with people in the public eye being held to account even for “small” things. First, they may just be the tip of the iceberg. Secondly, a zero tolerance approach may well have a trickle down effect, putting the fear of God into the smaller fish.
And frankly, if someone’s an embedded crook, it’s just as important to ruin his or her reputation as to prosecute for criminal conduct. Nixon was never prosecuted either.
Airlines
It would be delicious if barnaby lost his seat!
Player One@616
My views are stated at 584 which you appear not to comprehend.
They may not be identical to feeney’s or the way he has expressed them.
TPOF @ 600,
Having recently read the history of the ICAC it has been the case that after claiming the high profile scalp of Nick Greiner they went very quiet for a number of years and only investigated Local Council employees and Councillors who purloined concrete and staff from the local Works Depot to lay a free driveway for themselves, and the like.
This inevitably led, via the connections between the Wollongong Council corruption and the State Labor government MPs from the Wollongong area into an investigation that ultimately ended up outside Eddie Obeid’s door. Joining the dots tends to do that.
And so ICAC really got revved up, as I understand it, when the Council Assisting got lots of Labor heads hanging from his belt and he received ‘gentle’ encouragement from the NSW Coalition Opposition at the time to go as far as he could with his investigations.
This then led him into areas where Liberal and Labor notables were in bed together, such as at Australian Water Holdings, which then led to the investigation of the Central Coast fundraising vehicle, ‘4×5’, administered by the notorious Chris Hartcher.
So the Coalition’s ‘gentle’ encouragement of ICAC kind of blew up in the new government’s faces, resulting in the quick exit of the Premier, Barry O’Farrell.
I guess they were just feeling their oats after that when they decided to go Margaret Cuneen. Especially considering the fact that when the Australian Crime Commission brings you evidence they say they want you to do something about, what do you do?
Confessions
[Nash taking on the Old Boys of her party? I’d pay money to see that!]
Would it be something like this? 😀
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SbyAZQ45uww
vemused
[ My views are stated at 584 which you appear not to comprehend.
They may not be identical to feeney’s or the way he has expressed them. ]
Oh, I comprehend them. It seems that despite your protestations, you really agree with feeney. Why can’t you simply say so? It isn’t (currently) a crime to be so bigoted.
shellbell @ 585,
‘ Her allies are Alan Jones, Miranda Devine (besties) and Jeffrey Phillips SC ‘
All experts in flim flam it seems.
Player One@622
Strange how you throw the term ‘bigoted’ around so easily.
I am not a bigot and I don’t think feeney is either.
Millennial
Posted Thursday, February 11, 2016 at 10:20 pm | Permalink
Confessions
[Nash taking on the Old Boys of her party? I’d pay money to see that!
Would it be something like this? 😀 ]
Orrrrr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fW5Z2z6pXM
bemused
[ I am not a bigot and I don’t think feeney is either. ]
Obviously not. Reality begs to differ.
Mr Mark Kenny, in a somewhat discursive article (http://www.smh.com.au/comment/malcolm-turnbull-promised-to-advance-australia-but-has-retreated-under-fire-20160211-gmrdii.html) has a throwaway line that “Rumours surround another cabinet figure, which if true, would end his career also.”.
He’s not referring to Messrs Briggs, Brough or Robert. Any ideas?
pedant @ 617
I don’t disagree with any of that. And I think the ICAC has done much excellent work over recent years with both sides of politics and beyond. And repetutational damage is not such a bad thing if there is no other way to bring down a patently corrupt individual or group. But it is a very damaging power, backed with extraordinary resources and legal authority, and should be exercised with only the greatest care.
The fact that someone is only convicted of much less than has been found by the Commission is not the same as finding that the person has only done one thing or, indeed, hanging the person out to dry by shining a powerful torch in places where most of us would be uncomfortable. Think Peter Slipper and his private text messages. Think TURC, with its extravagant findings of misconduct which look quite different in the context of ordinary industrial relations activities (and not extraordinary thuggishness). And bear in mind that the rules of evidence and cross-examination apply only at the discretion of the Commission and not as a right under law.
Make no mistake. I have no time for Cunneen. I was surprised when she inquired into alleged police cover-up of accusations against priests in the Hunter region and found nothing. And I don’t think much of the company she keeps. But the allegations against Cunneen, when set against the allegations against so many other subjects of the ICAC in recent times, really seemed a poor fit for the ICAC’s role, powers, resources and responsibilities. It was a terrible own goal and a terrible lack of judgement.
Player One@626
Your warped version of reality is of no interest to me.
Millenial:
Definitely!
It is correct that ICAC was quite particularly during the Carr years aided by some weird or low key appointments – Barry O’Keefe, Irene Moss
This is not correct
[And so ICAC really got revved up, as I understand it, when the Council Assisting got lots of Labor heads hanging from his belt and he received ‘gentle’ encouragement from the NSW Coalition Opposition at the time to go as far as he could with his investigations.]
The timing is nit right for starters.
The blow back once the corporates and Libs were lined up has been fierce.
Plus its coverage is a turf war between News and Fairfax that started with News being pissed that Kate McClymont scooped Obeid etc. Nom News is fiercely anti ICAC and Fairfax supports.
Neil Cheneworth (AFR) is the best reporter
C@t
[Especially considering the fact that when the Australian Crime Commission brings you evidence they say they want you to do something about, what do you do?]
Think very, very carefully about how it will play out and whether an investigation is sustainable.
From experience I am very wary when an organisation goes to another and declares they have something really hot but can’t do anything with it. It may not just be a lack of jurisdiction that is holding back the first organisation – but the judgement that it is too risky to pursue and it is better for someone else to bear the risk while you still have the opportunity to achieve your ends.
bemused
[ Your warped version of reality is of no interest to me. ]
Oh, it so obviously is!
feeney is obviously a bigot, who simply cannot abide anyone whose sexuality differs from his (or her – I really shouldn’t presume) “acceptable” stereotypes.
And you agree with feeney … which makes you …. ?
From the AFR article by Coorey:
‘ As these inferences grew, all of a sudden leaked documents were dumped in Labor’s lap.’
All I can say is how bloody Byzantine and internecine it all is.
C@tmomma
[All I can say is how bloody Byzantine and internecine it all is.]
Sad is it not ? 😀
By the way, let me be clear re the NSW ICAC that my disappointment re the pursuit of Cunneen is the damage that ICAC has done to itself and the way it has opened the door to its enemies. It’s a great pity.
pedant
Christopher Pyne?
c@tmomma
According to Coorey, Morrison is besties with Stuart Robert.
TPOF @ 628: Mr Slipper was a sleazy fool for sending those text messages; and there’s at least a bit of an argument that it’s no bad thing if the voters get to find out who are the sleazy fools in their Parliament. We get to see enough lying propaganda from them most of the time. Likewise Mr Slipper and Mrs Bishop seem not to have broken the law; but that’s only because the relevant guidelines have been devised to give politicians like them a bolthole. Normal employees who wasted the boss’s money on winery crawls or helicopter joy rides would be out on their ears in no time flat.
I guess this is where one’s respect for the law bumps up against one’s intuitive sense of justice. I remember thinking years ago that it’s a terrible thing if someone is wrongly imprisoned; but if it’s going to happen to someone, it might as well be Pauline Hanson.
shellbell @ 631,
I must say I do remember the Coalition, when in Opposition, urging ICAC on to investigate any and every Labor figure, from Eddie Obeid, Ian Macdonald and Joe Tripodi, all the way down to Angela DiAmato, for whatever. Little realising that it may eventually end up with investigations going into their neck of the woods also.
Behaviour from the Coalition that was entirely understandable if you were also trying to win government with as big a majority as possible from a tired and corrupt State government.
‘ The blow back once the corporates and Libs were lined up has been fierce.’
Yes. However Mike Baird is trying to hold the line, admirably.
TPOF@636
That is the single most unfortunate aspect of the whole sorry episode.
ICAC is needed to continue its work.
[I would have thought it was about the power of ICAC to test her guilt or innocence wrt the fact of her being a Public Servant, therefore within their remit.]
There are about 2 million public servants in Australia.
ICAC should be a bit more selective about who it pursues, and an isolated allegation against someone who wasn’t acting as a public servant when she allegedly committed her offense sounds more like a vendetta than anything.
Millions of dollars have been wasted on pursuing Cuneen.
A song for bemused and Player One:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_2nirBCMhaY
😉
victoria @ 638,
‘ According to Coorey, Morrison is besties with Stuart Robert.’
Yes, they share a house in Canberra. Both are ‘Lame, Gay, Churchy Losers’ too. Robert reads the Bible on his long haul journeys overseas!
He doesn’t seem to have learnt anything from it though.
Must be the Prosperity Gospel version. 😀
Dio:
The equivalent body here in WA has realised its own errors recently.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-12-08/regaining-public-trust-could-take-years-ccc-chief-mckechnie/7010156
pedant @ 639
[Mr Slipper was a sleazy fool for sending those text messages; and there’s at least a bit of an argument that it’s no bad thing if the voters get to find out who are the sleazy fools in their Parliament.]
Then let’s publish every Parliamentarian’s text messages to see whether Slipper was one of a kind. My very strong guess is that there is much, much worse out there. This only came out because ALL of the text messages between Slipper and Ashby over 9 months were released as a result of discovery in a court action that was brought solely to destroy Slipper. If it had been about a genuine sexual harassment grievance, there were other ways to deal with it that not only would have been considerably cheaper but considerably more effective in getting Ashby a fair outcome.
To be quite blunt, if the worse thing a person does is to compare female genitalia generically to bottled mussels in a private text message, then we would have a very kind and peaceful world.
[A song for bemused and Player One:]
William needs to give them their own thread. That way they can carry on their childish insults to each other without the rest of us having to scroll past.
confessions@647
While he’s at it, he might like to give you your own thread so there is less numptyism here.
victoria @ 637,
‘ Christopher Pyne?’
Too many to contemplate.
* Karen Macnamara was mentioned in dispatches wrt the ICAC investigation into ‘4×5’ up here on the Central Coast.
* Craig Kelly was mentioned at one time as having acted as a Director of a Company when he shouldn’t have been.
* Wyatt Roy wrt Ashbygate
* Christopher Pyne wrt Ashbygate
* Tony Abbott wrt ‘Australians for Honest Politics’ and their pursuit of Pauline Hanson. Or his many, many Entitlements claims which don’t pass the Pub Test.
And that is just off the top of my head!
victoria @ 637: That had crossed my mind, but there was no hint in Mr Kenny’s article of the case of the person to whom he was referring being connected to the other cases he mentioned. (He might have been trying to avoid any hint of innuendo.)
Which makes me wonder whether the police investigation into the Ashby case is yet another factor Mr Turnbull needs to take into account when contemplating election dates. He wouldn’t want to call a poll only to see one of his former or serving Ministers indicted during the campaign.