The Australian reports the latest Newspoll shows the parties still araldited together on 50-50, with Labor’s primary vote on 35 per cent (38.0 per cent at the election, 34 per cent in the Newspoll of September 10-12), the Coalition on 42 per cent (43.6 per cent and 41 per cent) and the Greens on 14 per cent (11.8 per cent and 14 per cent). This is despite a sharp deterioration in Tony Abbott’s personal ratings, which have seen a 9 per cent drop in approval (to 39 per cent) and rise in disapproval (47 per cent). By contrast, Julia Gillard is up four points on approval to 48 per cent and down three on disapproval to 33 per cent, and her lead as preferred prime minister has widened from 50-34 to 52-31. Full tables courtesy of GhostWhoVotes.
[I actually wish this was all it was, but alas, I suspect there is an element of religion as well. Many of the AS are seen to be muslim, and Islam has a very bad vibe at the moment in this and other western countries.]
True, but really all this does is re-enforce the “not one of us” line. If they were not muslim it would be something else. I remember the days of “wogs and dagos” and their salami eating habits being the reason. 🙁
[They watch cooking shows, where the main course is sushimi grade tuna]
Ru, gee, they have time to watch the cooking shows? they must be doing OK, i dont even have time to watch them myself.
The sashimi grade tuna? Now, that is a different story. 😎
[Will be interesting to see if Labor will attempt to enshrine the changes in legislation and vote in support of the Greens Party motion to amend the Migration Act to exempt children from the mandatory detention clause when it come before the Senate.]
I think the debate moved on today, will Abbott accuse the Greens of political bastardry for trying to get his support?
[The sashimi grade tuna? Now, that is a different story.]
Is there shark grade dolphin? 😉
[Many of the AS are seen to be muslim, and Islam has a very bad vibe at the moment in this and other western countries.]
Mod Lib, at our door step, there is Indonesia, almost 90% of Indonesia are Muslim and that is about 210millions of them.
What will happen if they decide to swamp us? Maybe we should invade them before that happens.
[Is there shark grade dolphin?]
Ru, 😥 😥 😥
I think we have used up our invading cards. We will have to wait until next turn.
If Bowen gets Indonesian and Malaysian support for a regional refugee processing centre and Timor Leste agrees to host it, all looking more likely by the day. Plus once security checks are complete families are accomodated in a community setting. What can Abbott do?
ruawake @4347,
[They realise that this is not possible so look to blame someone, anyone.]
You’re dead right. A lot of this is about the basest of motives. Selfishness, shallowness, fear. Of course, one isn’t allowed to suggest one’s fellow human beings aren’t very evolved. Let alone the press dare point this out. Sure, its not all about racism, but the other motives don’t say much about those people either.
And it goes almost without saying that the conservatives are always the first to dig down and appeal to the dark side of human emotions in order to further their indefensible ideology.
[Cud chewer:
And it goes almost without saying that the conservatives are always the first to dig down and appeal to the dark side of human emotions in order to further their indefensible ideology.]
This is the bit I always have an issue with. How do you figure that the ALP aren’t digging down and appealing to the dark side of human emotions?
During Menzies thousands of European “asylum seekers” came to Australia and during Fraser it was Vietnamese. I dont agree that it is liberal philosophy not to look after individuals who are working hard and making sacrifices to try to get ahead.
[4342
PoK
To Briefly my thanks for your efforts re matters financial. I have for sometime now been bookmarking your links and revisiting some when time permits.]
My pleasure, PoK. I get a lot out of thinking about these issues and trying to form some coherent comments on them. I have to say, there are a lot of economically literate posters and links here. There is a lot of deeply-grounded opinion, information, reflection and discussion running through this blog on all manner of issues. It is a very remarkable achievement by William, don’t you think?
Ruawake
[What can Abbott do?]
Appeal to the worst instincts in people. AS, migration will always be ripe for the picking by fear mongering bigots such as the Rabbott.
The Asylum Seeker Resource Centre has produced an “Asylum Seeker fact sheet and mythbuster 2010”. Two myths are:
[[MYTH 4: The Gillard Government invests an equal amount of money in caring for asylum seekers in the community as it does to keep asylum seekers in detention.
FACT 4:
* For every $1 the Gillard Government gives the Red Cross to care for community based asylum seekers, it will spend $30.41 dollars to keep asylum seekers in detention centres over the next 4 years.
* That’s $1.441 billion dollars on detention compared to $47.4 million dollars to the Red Cross Asylum Seeker Assistance Scheme
MYTH 25: People seek asylum in Australia to get access to government support and live the good life here. Asylum seekers who can afford to come by boat are economic migrants.
FACT 25:
Asylum Seekers do not leave their country due to choice. People seek asylum because they fear for their safety and life in their home country. They leave by whatever means they can.
No asylum seekers have access to: Centrelink, Health Care Card, Public Housing, Settlement Services, English Programs, Job Services Australia, Traineeships or Tertiary Education. Many also have no right to even work or a Medicare Card]
http://www.asrc.org.au/media/documents/myth-busters.pdf
[This is the bit I always have an issue with. How do you figure that the ALP aren’t digging down and appealing to the dark side of human emotions?]
Mob Lib
Immigration policy was alway bi-partisan, that changed under Howard. Well that is not strickly true, because Beazley supported Howard to begin with. Howard went too far in his mania for stopping the boats, while having the greatest number of immigrants ever.
It was done for political reasons, Labor were floundering. The Labor left were outraged, the right were pragmatic. It suited Howard. But was it the correct thing to do? I think not.
ruawake: so why didnt they cross the floor like the liberal members who disagreed with this policy?
Wingnutt missing in action not surprising really considering most of the lieberal heavywieghts and the front bench are nowhere to be seen.It will probably take the weekend to sort out the leadership of the lieberals,out in the backrooms frantically ringing up the numbers on their mobile phones.They must have found a contender now its only a matter of having the numbers which they will take their time to make sure they have before the inevitable comes to pass,sayonara wngnutt.
Pegasus
Do try to keep up. Your Googling skills are Robb like but…
[In a major policy shift, the Federal Government is preparing to announce plans to release hundreds of asylum seekers from detention and allow them to live in the community while their applications for asylum are being assessed.]
[ruawake: so why didnt they cross the floor like the liberal members who disagreed with this policy?]
When was the last time a Liberal Party member of the Reps crossed the floor and that vote affected the outcome of the division. Red Herring Mod. 😛
Mod Lib, time was that policy on asylum-seekers was broadly bi-partisan. Both sides recognized that nothing good could come of a contest over this issue. Maybe this had a lot to do with the Cold War (and the presence of large numbers of refugees in Australia, many of whom supported the Liberal Party), the end of the White Australia policy (and the absolute need for Australia to avoid any suggestions of lingering racism) and the dominance of moderates inside both parties.
But the bi-partisan wish to avoid conflict over this issue has now completely broken down. The LNP see this as an issue that has already helped them win one election (2001) and helped get them close again this time. Labor have been badly wedged time and again on this issue, and have to walk a fine line. It has become a happy hunting ground for the Greens. For the moment, the LNP believe they can make gains by heightening anxieties and jealousies on this issue. Labor, I’m sure, wish they could quell the nerves and vent the heat. They must wish the old day of bi-partisan calm would return.
…on the contrary, matter of principle and standing up for what you believe in. Had the ALP members crossed the floor I suspect that would have been the biggest news story for quite a while- what with the expulsions, followed by ALP leaders having to argue why the policy was a good idea and needed to be implemented.
@4360,
This is the bit I always have an issue with. How do you figure that the ALP aren’t digging down and appealing to the dark side of human emotions?
Unfortunately sometimes they do and AS policy is a good example. However the key point there is the indefensible nature of conservative ideology. One that requires by its nature a certain level of untruth and the need to distract people by whatever means possible lest they see it for what it is – built on dangerous distortions about human nature and the nature of the market. No more or less dangerous than the ideas that captivated Marx and Lenin.
[…on the contrary, matter of principle and standing up for what you believe in.]
That is just Liberal crud. The Labor party caucus is the place for standing up for what you believe, then the will of the majority is followed in the Parliament. This is a cultural difference between the two parties. One the Libs fail to appreciate or misinterpret when they have no further argument. 😛
I think we are all agreeing with the basic principle that the current pandering is bad policy and bad for Australia. All I wanted to say is that this apologising for the ALP is not healthy either. They need to be held just as accountable for their positions as you are holding the (current) Libs. Otherwise, this will just continue ad infinitum. A little bit of courage to take a hit (ala Georgiou who was Ministerial material writ large if not for this) on the ALP side would be a pleasant surprise…
And I’ll add to that and @4369, that breach of bipartisanship in Howard’s crass appeal to base emotions demonstrates the levels to which conservatives will stoop to stay in power. If they had an ideology worth explaining, and worth defending, you’d think they’d have TV adds showing us how despite all evidence to the contrary, privatising Telstra and cutting back money for universities were great ideas. Because, ya know.. the market is perfect and we say so.. and all evidence the contrary.. er.. just.. can’t be. And like um, people are naturally good at being selfish, and are expected to be so. And if they can’t get to uni well they’re just failures at being people aren’t they?
WeeJism has become just plain boring and worthy of total ingoring. Let’s send him to Coventry by not responding to his rubbish.
OK. Quiz question. Which raving left wing looney wrote the following of the War in Afghanistan? I have added my interpretation of the subtexts in brackets.
‘There is only one way that we can win there, and that is by defining victory down to the lowest possible level.’ [Subtext: to all intents and purposes, we have lost the Afghanistan War.]
‘I no longer believe we can win in any meaningful way in Afghanistan, beyond the bare minimum of keeping our worst enemies out of power, at least formally.’ [Subtext; we have to cook up a pretence of victory.]
‘…we are not running a counter-insurgency in Afghanistan…’ [Subtext: I don’t know what we are doing in Afghanistan.]
‘There is really no chance of building a stable democracy in Afghanistan…’ [Subtext: The Karzai Government is crooked, undemocratic and can only stay in power while the West sqanders it treasure and blood to prop him up.]
‘Merely having infidel troops on Muslim land is enough to motivate many Muslim fighters.’ [We are not overcoming terrorists. We are creating terrorists.]
Answer: Greg Sheridan in The Weekend Australian.
I read this article by Sheridan with great sadness rathern than any sense of vindication. I marched against our Afghanistan War before we got started in it precisely because of the points made by Sheridan, amongst other points. It is a pity that it too Sheridan ten years to wise up.
To give The Australian’s Foreign Editor his due, he has had the courage to make his change of mind public.
Mod Lib
Despite your attempts to distract the facts remain, John Howard used Asylum Seeker policy for political gain. This tactic has also been used by Abbott but it is now reaching the point where it will be a political negative for him.
That is why I asked where to next for Tone.
Mod Lib, there is of course one other perfectly reasonable explanation for the tactics adopted by the LNP ever since 2001 in relation to asylum seekers. And that is, starting with John Howard, there is a hint of the xenophobe buried deeply in the mitochondria of Liberal Consciousness. Howard certainly had form. He is on the record about “Asians” and how there were too many, too soon and too often. And there was One Nation, founded by con-artists and charlatans who had been taking comfort inside the LNP. And there was the absurd jingoism that gave rise to the Citizenship Test.
Underneath all this, there lingers the idea that asylum seekers “have no right” to be here, as if because of the languages they speak, the pigments of their skin, the religions they practice, or the cultures they share, they do not belong in this country – that they will be out of place here, and we will return them whence they came, if only given a chance.
Was Arthur Calwell releasing the mitochondria deep in ALP consciousness?
I just think you are all arguing what you wish was the case (that the ALP is blameless and it is all those nasty libs making us do it) rather than what is the case (the ALP is equally bad and lacking ticker- to quote recent history)
[I used to pride myself on my handwriting until my OH told me he couldn’t read my shopping lists. I now write in caps for him]
BH (4263). Are you sure he wasn’t having a lend of you? Write “a packet of Tim Tams” ten times in your own hand-writing and I bet he comes back with all ten.
Could it be that “people” are scared of change? The lamb chop, peas and spud “people” versus the kebab, falafel and hommus “people”?
Of course the conservatives want to conserve the past. But how did the Liberal Party become the Conservative Party?
Socialism = When the right pays for the leftwings ideals
You guys are full of ideas.. now if only YOUR lot would pay for it, that’d be handy.
Christopher Hitchens at his best – a great history lesson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuQq1svIvK4
my say
Don’t watch it.
[You guys are full of ideas.. now if only YOUR lot would pay for it, that’d be handy.]
Wizzy
Can you help me? Who is “YOUR lot”? Serious question.
[4379
Mod Lib
Was Arthur Calwell releasing the mitochondria deep in ALP consciousness?
I just think you are all arguing what you wish was the case (that the ALP is blameless and it is all those nasty libs making us do it) rather than what is the case (the ALP is equally bad and lacking ticker- to quote recent history)]
Few here would argue that Labor is without blame, Mod Lib. Well, Frank might, if only to how he still has the fight left in him. Seriously, Arthur Calwell led the party 50 years ago. Tony Abbott leads the LNP today. He should be accountable for his views, as much as the Government is accountable for theirs. He walked away from a bi-partisan position on asylum-seekers less than a year ago for purely political reasons. He probably thinks STOP THE BOATS helped him win a few votes. He is probably right about that, considering the nonsense generated around this issue.
Mod Libe, I agree with you. Labor started mandatory detention. And capitulated on Tampa. Ever since it has been a race to the bottom. Unfortunately with the likes of Abbott and Morrison around, there will not be bipartisan support of a more humane support.
Its HOWARD that has alot to answer for
[4383
BK
Christopher Hitchens at his best – a great history lesson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuQq1svIvK4%5D
He is looking good in this video…pity he is not well now. He is very articulate…great, really.
Ruawake,
To my observation:
[Will be interesting to see if Labor will attempt to enshrine the changes in legislation and vote in support of the Greens Party motion to amend the Migration Act to exempt children from the mandatory detention clause when it come before the Senate.]
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2010/10/12/newspoll-50-50-4/comment-page-87/#comment-660545
You responded with:
[I think the debate moved on today, will Abbott accuse the Greens of political bastardry for trying to get his support?]
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2010/10/12/newspoll-50-50-4/comment-page-88/#comment-660548
A perfectly legitimate question that you did not answer. According to the news item about this on ABC1 tonight, both Bowen and Gillard have also not answered whether they will support the Greens Party motion.
For someone who is never shy to opine away and speculate about all manner of things, I find your reticence puzzling.
Several days ago when I first posted about children in detention and the Greens Party motion, the lack of comment from everyyone here was similarly unsurprising.
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2010/10/12/newspoll-50-50-4/comment-page-9/#comment-656580
You also posted:
[Pegasus
Do try to keep up. Your Googling skills are Robb like but…
In a major policy shift, the Federal Government is preparing to announce plans to release hundreds of asylum seekers from detention and allow them to live in the community while their applications for asylum are being assessed.]
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2010/10/12/newspoll-50-50-4/comment-page-88/#comment-660562
It’s obvious that I know this hence my original post. I know it hurts that Labor is changing its policy in line with the Greens policy.
Anyway, have a good evening.
[I don’t think so…not yet anyway. Still seems a bit green and erratic; not sure of his depth for a flagship ABC CA programme.]
He isn’t a journalist — and despite what we might like to think … the 7:30 report isn’t just about politics
I was wondering how this shift in labor assylum policy gels in connection with the often discussed influence of the NSW right in the change of leadership and development of party policy. ie Arbib, Bitar etc?
The reason I ask this is I have just read that the discussion with stakeholders in relation to this issue commenced prior to the election and I remember Kevin Rudd raising the issue of the party moving to the right on this issue the night Julia challenged.
Do you think this shows that the influence of the right has been overstated or a statement by Julia that she will develop her own policy and lead the party in her own way?
Pegasus
The Govt will not have to vote on the Green motion, because they have agreed to a much more substantial set of measures.
Go off and google, there’s a good lad. 😛
[Appeal to the worst instincts in people. AS, migration will always be ripe for the picking by fear mongering bigots such as the Rabbott.]
As long as the boats keep flooding in, it will be an issue.
It’s an issue because the Australian people have decided it’s an issue.
Wizzy@4382:
[socialism = When the right pays for the leftwings ideals
You guys are full of ideas.. now if only YOUR lot would pay for it, that’d be handy.]
Dunno about you, but I pay my fair share of taxes to help the poor, the sick, the indigent, the old, and those who need help.
I’m a leftie, and socialism is what allows you to call the fire brigade when your house is on fire, (don’t try that in the US unless you have paid your dues, they will watch your house burn down, and keep those who have paid the levy from getting burnt from your inferno) and the police when there is a loud party in the next apartment, and drive on well made roads, and go to Centrelink when you get old and/or have lost your income stream.
That’s the definition of a just society, to the extent that we do it well. Some European countries do it better, the USA much worse.
[As long as the boats keep flooding in, it will be an issue.]
DONT MENTION THE BOATS!!!!!!!!!!
[Despite your attempts to distract the facts remain, John Howard used Asylum Seeker policy for political gain.]
As Gillard used climate change for political gain.
Or she used Broadband for political gain.
The only difference here is that the left know they are a dwindling minority on this issue and it hurts.
QE – or printing money – is supposed to have the effect of increasing the supply of cash in the economy, thereby reducing borrowing costs and helping the economy. But in the US, mere talk of QE has had the opposite effect. The belief that QE will cause inflation has led to an immediate increase in interest rates in the US financial markets. And this, in turn, caused the USD dollar to rally, also bringing about exactly the opposite effect from the one intended by the Fed.
It seems the markets like almost-nil inflation. This generates good long-run real returns. Any attempt by the Fed to reflate is going to cost the US Treasury – and all other borrowers – a great deal in extra interest. What a conundrum they face. Reflate they must, and yet reflate they cannot. Keynes, where are you!
[Treasury 30-Year Yields Rise Most in 14 Months on Prospects for Inflation
Treasury 30-year bonds tumbled, pushing yields to the biggest weekly increase since August 2009, on speculation that Federal Reserve efforts to spur the economy will reignite inflation.
The 30-year yield rose above 4 percent yesterday for the first time in two months after data showed retail sales rose more than forecast and New York area manufacturing climbed. Fed Chairman Ben S. Bernanke said additional stimulus may be warranted, in part because inflation is too low. The Fed will release its regional economic survey next week. The U.S. sold $66 billion of notes and bonds to lower-than-average demand.
The yield on the so-called long bond climbed 23 basis points, or 0.23 percentage point, to 3.98 percent, from 3.75 percent on Oct. 8, according to BGCantor Market Data. It touched 4.01 percent yesterday, the most since Aug. 10. The increase was the biggest since a 31-basis point jump for the five days ended Aug. 7, 2009. …
The 10-year note yield rose 17 basis points, the most since December, to 2.56 percent, from 2.39 percent last week. It was the yield’s first weekly gain since Sept. 10. The five-year note yield also increased for the first week in more than a month, adding eight basis points to 1.19 percent.]
The GBNT on Australia’s mining industry unconstitutional.
Now theres a surprise. Royalty taxes are state government taxes as specificed by our constitution. Unfortunately the Rudd/Gillard government didn’t bother reading the constitution before introducing this GBNT.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/newshome/8143314/secret-documents-reveal-mine-tax-truth/
[As Gillard used climate change for political gain.]
Didn’t Chainsaw and Turnbull shake hands on a deal? Wasn’t it Howard Govt policy?
[Or she used Broadband for political gain.]
Only because its a no brainer and the Libs stuffed telecommunications to get the best price for Telstra
[The only difference here is that the left know they are a dwindling minority on this issue and it hurts.]
Wrong. 🙂
GeeWizz,
You got that arse about ➡ Abbott used Broadband for political loss.
As far as governments of either persuasion go in terms of opposing racism and ethnocentrism in areas such as migration and refugees, Menzies was probably the first to move Australia a little away from its earlier profound prejudices, though he didn’t take it very far. Whitlam was much better, Fraser , if anything, was better still, but not much between them. Things drifted with Hawke and even with Keating, and went decidedly backwards with Howard. Didn’t see any signs of any great leap forward with Rudd, I’m afraid, despite some early signs of promise that were soon dashed. With Gillard, it is a case of “let’s wait and see”. I’m actually more hopeful about her than I was about Rudd in this regard.
The thing about Whitlam and Fraser on such matters was that they both actively sought to take their respective parties and the community forward on such things. Not much real sign of that from those who came after. Perhaps they simply assumed the job was already done. Howard’s success playing politics with the issue indicates that it pretty clearly wasn’t.