In the absence of anything else to report:
• Former Northern Territory Chief Minister Michael Gunner formally retired from parliament on Wednesday, having relinquished the leadership in May in the wake of a heart attack. In contrast to its counterparts in Western Australia, who have still not fired the starter’s gun on a by-election for North West Central, the government has already announced August 20 as the date for the by-election in his Darwin seat in Fannie Bay, which he retained by 9.6% at the 2020 election.
• Labor’s five members of the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters are Jagajaga MP Kate Thwaites, Hawke MP Sam Rae, Blair MP Shayne Neumann and South Australian Senators Karen Grogan and Marielle Smith, one of whom will be the committee’s chair. There were four opposition members and one from the Greens in the previous parliament, but I’m unclear as to how that will play out this time.
• The report of Operation Watts, the joint inquiry by Victoria’s Independent Broad-based Anti-Corruption Commission and Ombudsman into certain Labor state parliamentarians’ branch-stacking activities, offers a wealth of invaluable detail on the hard realities of the operation of modern political parties.
Jan 6 @ #398 Sunday, July 31st, 2022 – 10:16 am
As Albo pointed out, some people can walk and chew gum at the same time.
https://www.pollbludger.net/2022/07/30/weekend-miscellany-open-thread/comment-page-8/#comment-3959157
I reckon governance needs work, I see a fICAC/ CIC, campaign finance reform, useful FoI, mandatory and binding referendums (especially the ones that need a double majority) as enabling the advance of Australia, fair.
However, there’s much to do for most rather than a segment, say ATSI or billionaires, some pigs aren’t more equal than others, for the bulk of the population.
Be it opportunity (I get skilled migration, short term visas not so much), cost of living, education, eivironment, healthcare, human rights, infrastructure, national security and public safety much needs doing.
So far the newish fed gov seems to have the right drive, but it has to focus on now, soon, not just later.
Sure hope that after the conservative government went progressive government, Australia’s rankings on inequality-adjust Human Development Index/ Sustainable Development Goals, Gross National Happiness/ Better Life Index, World Competitiveness Yearhook/ Index improve …
Wouldn’t wanna be [Londonistan on the Parramatta River] where the Poms/ Yanks [the courtiers/ acolytes at Murdoch Infotainment in combo with beliefs, rather than unbiased and factual] are or are going, unlike say Switzerland/ Scandinavia/ Northwestern Europe/ Singapore, may be Costa Rica/ Bhutan.
Liberal extreme disaster capitalism isn’t social democracy, just closer to fascism, theocrazy-ism and in some ways rather than thoughts communism.
Rex
‘Until there’s a treaty that unifies, there remains two Australia’s.’
More complex than that.
There was no ‘Australia’ before white settlement, but a number of separate ‘nations’. There was no common word (no common language, for that matter) that identified the whole of the continent.
Many Aboriginal groups reject the idea that they are Australian Aborigines. They argue that they belong to a tribe which has been incorporated into ‘Australia’ without their agreement and that they are members of a specific nation. They thus identify as neither Australian or Aboriginal.
(It’s a bit like calling someone who lives in Egypt an ‘African’ because they live on that continent. Yes, they are – but their lives and experience are very different from, say, an ‘African’ who lives in Guinea).
Jan 6 @ #283 Sunday, July 31st, 2022 – 10:07 am
And to vociferously advocate for a Treaty before a Voice, shows a level of disrespect for the wishes of the majority of Indigenous Australians and a colonialist mindset (I’m assuming Rex Douglas is a White Male).
The promulgation of the Treaty view, as The Walkout Statement was evidence of in black and white, as I posted it yesterday, is a LOT more than one word tells us. Essentially the Treaty that the Walkout group want would cede sovereignty over this nation to the Indigenous people of this country and take power away from the Commonwealth of Australia and its elected bodies, which represent ALL Australians. A Treaty in that form will never get passed. It’s dead in the water, no matter how many people think it’s right.
A Voice is doable. A Treaty is not. We should do the Voice. A bird, with a Voice, is worth two in the hand in the bush.
You just have to reflect on the bloodshed that precipitated The Treaty of Waitangi. Do we really want to precipitate an unwinnable crisis for the Indigenous people of this country?
A Treaty as next steps. Not first steps.
Rex, missing the point, again:
“ Until there’s a treaty that unifies, there remains two Australia’s.”
______
‘… a treaty …’ the use of the singular gives the game away. A treaty needs defined parties. That is actually quite difficult. The interest of each of the First Nations people are not easily defined; nor are each First Nations entity ‘on the same page’ with others. In fact, the question of what precisely defines a particular First Nation is fraught, as is the allied question of ‘who speaks for them’ (witness the opaque and dubious process of consultation between Adani and ‘traditional owners’ concerning the development of that mine as but one example).
Even if ‘a treaty’ was agreed upon, the collapse of ‘two Australia’s’ is not inevitable, let alone automatic. Just ask the First Nations people of North America, who have treaties coming out of the wazoo.
The statement from the heart is designed to cut through all of the fault lines. In my view, it is impossible to even envisage any treaty process without this basic step being taken. To their shame in my view Price and Thorpe actually know this. The reality about both individuals is that they seek failure. Frankly, their careers to date are a litany of failures. Wreckers, not builders. To that end they are now gaslighting this Labor Government. In turn, their siren calls bring out of the woodwork all the habitual Labor gaslighting bludgers: P1, Rex, nath, Steely, VE and so on. How surprising.
I hope to catch up with Insiders later. From comments here it sounds relevant. (Thank you for them.)
The following may be apocryphal, but I’ve read that the well known science fiction story “War of the Worlds” was in part inspired by the treatment of the Tasmanian Aboriginals. Even if untrue, it’s worth thinking on.
The shops beckon…
‘Until there’s a treaty that unifies, there remains two Australia’s.’
Except it won’t unify. It will divide. Catastrophically.
Do you agree with the text of The Walkout Statement, Rex Douglas? From which the Treaty First concept was generated. A simple question, requiring a simple answer, yes or no.
“Except it won’t unify. It will divide. Catastrophically.”
I don’t understand this at all. Sure the racists will be butt hurt for a while, but we can’t go on celebrating a national day that recognises the day of invasion / colonisation. It is stupid and cruel, we can’t have unceded land and colonised land, we need a united land.
Prince Charles holds the world record for having the most medals for achieving fuck all
Lol Rex
The slogan for conservatives/ reactionaries should be “now is not the time”….That is their answer to anything involving change.
Of course ‘the time’ never comes.
Catastrophically- really? Catastrophically like Ukraine? Or the American Civil War? Or apartheid? A loss wont be catastrophic to indigenous people, we survived invasion, theft, and all the rest. It would be disappointing. We managed to live here for 60,000 years through an Ice Age!
In 1988 only 30% of the electorate (the lowest yes vote on record) voted for an amendment that, among other things, would have ensured fair compensation for any property compulsorily aquired by the states.
(“The Castle” wasn’t made until 9 years later)
For any referendum a certain proportion of the electorate is not aware that we have a constitution let alone what they are voting against.
Depending on the press, social media and opposition this referendum has a high chance of failure
As Albo pointed out, some people can walk and chew gum at the same time
—————————
The voice is too important. It is 120 years in the making. We can’t afford to choke on it.
The treaty in NZ is so different to the circumstances we are in now. The path to full recognition and reconciliation doesn’t have a blueprint. Due to many factors, here it is unfortunately slow and infuriating. I see the urge for a treaty. I understand the impatience.
The Statement has called for a voice. The political environment is ripe for it (I hate the word, but there is a mandate). So let’s get it done. It doesn’t hinder a future treaty(ies). I expect a Voice will help formulate what a treaty will
look like and help gain acceptance for it. But as I said, a voice in and of itself is worthy without consideration if the next steps.
If you want an improvement that is desperately needed ASAP, some walk with the chew, I would also look to the Native Title process.
Torchbearer, I stand with you re a treaty.
Hopefully a treaty process can be agreed upon ASAP.
If you want figjam how can you past Phil Coorey?
You can just tell in his head he is breaking open watergate ever time he wheedles a soft drop from the PMO and faithfully lickspittles it into print.
BK at 9.53am, Confessions 9.55am
Were you referring to the graph depicting two Australia Institute polls in June (hatched) and July (non-hatched)?
Don’t stress because:
a) Dr Bonham says Aust Inst polls require a lot of salt, but there were two such polls in 2020 Eden-Monaro by-election that showed a gender gap in Kristy McBain’s favour that is consistent with her victory.
b) There will be other polls on public support for the Voice, and later polls may be more accurate than those two.
c) However, Yes got close to two thirds, with Unsure in second. If the poll isn’t wildly inaccurate, Dutton will be pushing shit uphill if he succumbs to No.
Yes Dr Doolittle. It was the way the ABC tried to visualise the results that was so bewildering.
Jan 6 says:
Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:01 am
“Cronus, they will snipe around with a peashooter scatter gun looking for political advantage in this. It is disgraceful but in their DNA. Hopefully they will find none and be smart enough to realise it and fall in line with some half hearted whining to satisfy their racist demographics. Failing that, they get it wrong and actively oppose – the referendum succeeds despite them and their brand is further diminished into the dark nooks of the far right.
If you look at this referendum in purely political terms – I see the existential challenge and risk is to the Coalition. The momentum isn’t with them and they don’t have a crafty operator like Howard to navigate it. And Abbott/Credlin were one trick ponies with a use by date. And neither of them have the teals to contend with (you could argue Dutton has the teals to deal with because of Howard and Abbott).”
Largely agreed, the Coalition are consistently on the wrong side of history yet continue along this track regardless on a host of issues. I’m hoping a continued strong performance by Albo and Co will maintain the ALP’s momentum resulting in a successful referendum outcome. For all the Coalition’s bloviating and obstructionism, the simple fact is that the referendum is the right thing to do. It may be this simple fact that gets it across the line in the end although I’m sure there are many opportunities for it to be derailed by unscrupulous parties or groups. It amazes me sometimes how difficult it can be for some to simply do the right thing.
“We’re going to ignore the statement you made and do something else” isn’t a great way to start negotiating a treaty.
Of course ‘the time’ never comes.
—————————
Unlike climate change where time is just about out, reconciliation in this country has been about slow change – infuriatingly and embarrassingly slow. But change has happened. 1967. Mabo and Wik and Keatings legislation (despite the hysterics of Tim Fischer). Sorry. And now Voice (I note the Uluru Statement is already 5 years old).
I don’t like it. It sucks how slow something so beneficial and necessary is taking place. But this referendum is not guaranteed to succeed. I would hate to think it is made harder by clouding what is in front of us with the next step.
You might be right. Talking up a treaty now while the focus is on a voice might be the right time for the conversation. But history tells me this country doesn’t take to reconciliation in big leaps. As sad as that is.
How strong and tough did Jess Stenson look last night in the marathon. She looked fantastic and grinded her opponents into the dust. Awesome perfomance.
It is probably worth posting an extract from the Final Report of the Referendum Council.
https://www.referendumcouncil.org.au/sites/default/files/report_attachments/Referendum_Council_Final_Report.pdf
It has only two recommendations:
The referendum only implements the first part of the first recommendation. But the other parts need to be addressed as well, and (as is recommended) at the same time. I would add the establishment of a Makarrata (Treaty) process (which is discussed in the report, but making recommendations on this was outside their terms of reference).
Without these, the referendum by itself is largely just symbolic. Is that good enough, or does it just make us all feel good and allow us forget about the more important stuff? (and by the way, this very point is also discussed in the report).
Just caught up with my daughter on our regular Sunday morning Messenger session.
She’s a High School teacher in Central Qld. She has been discussing in Modern History class the rise of McCarthyism in the 50s in the US with relation to Menzies’ attempt to ban the CP here in Australia.
A quite common question has been about Referendums and the Law. It seems many people there, from her students questions, think Referenda are about changing Laws, not about Amendments to the Constitution. She mentioned that to her husband who replied that he was against the Voice because he didn’t want the Laws changed to give Indigenous people extra power over Parliament, or, as already been claimed, an extra level of Parliament. This is an example of the lack of understanding of the concept of a Constitution- and therefore an area of misunderstanding which opponents will attempt to harness, I reckon.
Anyway, she explained to her students ( and her husband) that simply put, the Constitution is a set of principles that underlie our systems of Government, and that Parliament, and only Parliament, can propose new Laws or change them. Parliament must recognise the outcome of a Referendum and if necessary, change or propose Laws to give effect to the result.
If Menzies had won his Referendum, Parliament would have had to vote on Laws to outlaw the Communist Party.
Here, I might say, is an example of the absolute necessity of students in both Primary and Secondary to have an understanding of the basics of Australian Government- no matter how dry or uninteresting it may seem.
Albanese made it very clear in the third part of his statement that only Parliament can change or make Laws. However, I wouldn’t put it past opponents to play on those misunderstandings in the upcoming debate..
We will see.
Bulldust says:
Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:29 am
Prince Charles holds the world record for having the most medals for achieving fuck all
————————————————–
Walked half way up Mt Timbertop?
Hear, hear, Gettysburg1863.
Matt says:
Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 9:54 am
Regarding Senator Thorpe – if she does not consider herself an Australian citizen (per the walkout statement she signed her name to), then how can she take a seat in our Parliament?
I have seen no evidence that she was “booted” from the Statement from the Heart assembly; choosing to leave in disagreement is very different from being asked to leave. But surely our Parliamentarians should all be able to say with a clear conscience, “I am Australian, and my loyalty is to Australia.”….right?
__________________________________________________________
I thought much the same. But not only did Lidia Thorpe take a seat in parliament; when she was first sworn into the Senate she swore an oath of loyalty to the Queen. Thorpe could have sworn allegiance to the country, but maybe she thought that would be recognising white colonisation. Still, wouldn’t that have been preferable to swearing allegiance to a foreign monarchy which, as Thorpe says, is responsible for the dispossession of her people?
I think Thorpe is a bit confused; a not uncommon trait among oppressed people trying to navigate their way through rules made by their oppressors. But unfortunately she is capable of doing her people some harm, particularly if she campaigns against the voice to parliament because she wants a treaty first.
It doesn’t seem to occur to Thorpe that a voice to parliament could be a good way of negotiating such a treaty.
I fear the Greens are treating Thorpe as an authority on all things indigenous, instead of consulting First Nations communities more widely. I hope the Greens are not influenced by Thorpe to the extent they advocate a no vote in the referendum.
If the voice to parliament is blocked, it could delay progress in indigenous affairs for years to come. Do the Greens want to notch that up against their other great achievement: blocking climate action for a decade?
Mark David
https://www.csiro.au/en/news/News-releases/2022/Seven-megatrends-that-will-shape-the-next-20-years
The shadow minister julian leser supports some sort of voice but think its prity minor dutton could not be bothered to turn up to the wa liberal party conference liberals demandid hawke resign over federal loss but petter collier and guiran can stay after leading wa liberals to two defeats a wipe out in state reducing libs to 2 seats and loosing 4 federal seats including tangney and kertain
Today the first of my direct family has contracted Covid. He has been suitably admonished :-). He’s in Canberra, nowhere near us.
P1
‘ But the other parts need to be addressed as well, and (as is recommended) at the same time…’
I read this differently – that what it wants to happen on ‘the same day’ is the legislation in all Australian Parliaments.
Voices has to come before Treaty by some length of time, to allow the representatives of the various nations to be determined and for them to then work out what a Treaty should involve.
They might, for example, decide that there should be numerous Treaties, given the diversity of the population.
An interesting development.
“ Joe Biden tests positive for COVID again in rare rebound after Paxlovid treatment, returns to isolation”
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-31/joe-biden-tests-positive-covid-again/101285922
The Age 30/07
Elsewhere, Burney said she did not believe the Voice model needed to be finalised before Australians decided whether it should be constitutionally enshrined.
_____________________
Yeah. Good luck with that.
Morrison was right, we don’t trust govt’s.
The model needs to be locked in beforehand and we need as much detail as possible before we vote.
Terra Nullius was a fiction.
Australia as a constituted nation is not.
The constitutional change gives what came before a direct voice in the constituted nation. It aims is to unite not divide.
Cronus @ #434 Sunday, July 31st, 2022 – 11:18 am
He should retire after the mid-terms and give Harris a lead-in to the 2024 election.
Taylormade @ Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:18 am
Is there a model that you would vote “Yes” to Taylormade? If so, spill the beans. If not, then details are hardly required 😉
Taylormade
Raise your hand in worship of the sky fairies and leave reality to the adults.
”
Rex Douglassays:
Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:36 am
Torchbearer, I stand with you re a treaty.
Hopefully a treaty process can be agreed upon ASAP.
”
No you don’t. You stand with Price, Thorpe, P1, nath, Steely, VE and so on.
@ C@tmomma
Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 6:39 am
Midterms depressed turnout, Black GOP candidate close to Trump, apathy towards the Democratic Party due to the total failure that has been the 2020–2022 legislative term in America. Georgian voters will punish Raphael Warnock for that (whether he deserves it or not). I think of the tossups at the upcoming election, Georgia is most likely to go back to Republican. Warnock needs to run on a platform that he’s a skilled politican & his opponent is a cultist football player.
Trumpists will be out & in full force in Georgia following 2020’s election result.
Again, hope I’m wrong. It’s just crazy to think Dems can hold the US Senate which would mean they would need to lose a net of literally zero seats, which is impossible given current generic ballot polling and how lower turnout in midterms is good for the GOP in states like Nev and Ariz.
zoomster @ #431 Sunday, July 31st, 2022 – 11:16 am
I didn’t want to post it all, but if you read the report, it is clear what they mean:
Without this, there is a risk of the referendum failing because it will be too easy for a “No” campaign to simply claim that we don’t yet know what are we actually voting for.
Finalizing a Treaty (if that is the outcome) will itself will of course take time, but the process (Makarrata) can and should be initiated in conjunction with both the Voice and the Declaration. They are all integral parts of the Statement from the Heart. Splitting them up is not respecting the intent of the Statement.
Why does the voice need to be in the constitution when its possible to set up a body containing every tribal group’s leader.
”
Cronussays:
Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:44 am
Jan 6 says:
Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:01 am
“Cronus, they will snipe around with a peashooter scatter gun looking for political advantage in this. It is disgraceful but in their DNA. Hopefully they will find none and be smart enough to realise it and fall in line with some half hearted whining to satisfy their racist demographics. Failing that, they get it wrong and actively oppose – the referendum succeeds despite them and their brand is further diminished into the dark nooks of the far right.
If you look at this referendum in purely political terms – I see the existential challenge and risk is to the Coalition. The momentum isn’t with them and they don’t have a crafty operator like Howard to navigate it. And Abbott/Credlin were one trick ponies with a use by date. And neither of them have the teals to contend with (you could argue Dutton has the teals to deal with because of Howard and Abbott).”
Largely agreed, the Coalition are consistently on the wrong side of history yet continue along this track regardless on a host of issues. I’m hoping a continued strong performance by Albo and Co will maintain the ALP’s momentum resulting in a successful referendum outcome. For all the Coalition’s bloviating and obstructionism, the simple fact is that the referendum is the right thing to do. It may be this simple fact that gets it across the line in the end although I’m sure there are many opportunities for it to be derailed by unscrupulous parties or groups. It amazes me sometimes how difficult it can be for some to simply do the right thing.
”
Cronus: It amazes me sometimes how difficult it can be for some to simply do the right thing.
Me: One of the categories people are classified is ‘normal’ and ‘noble’.
Very few people come under the category of ‘noble’ because it is very difficult to ‘simply do the right thing’ for many people. It is as simple as that.
Thanks for that, P1.
Is Insiders a political review show or an intellectual event? It’s become just factual news and now it’s journos lecturing us on First Nations issues. Did the interview with Albo just happen or did I imagine it? No analysis at all.
Barrie Cassidy is missed
Lidia Thorpe supports a voice, but she also wants life made materially better for Indigenous people, who are still structurally discriminated against in child protection services, by law enforcement, and cannot rely on government services in their areas, just a month ago in NT they were not allowed to consume alcohol or pornography in particular given areas, literally second class citizens in their own country. Having a Voice will undoubtedly make it so that discriminatory legislation is harder to pass, which is excellent. But it’s one of many steps is what Thorpe continually says. Adam Bandt himself said that “the Greens will never do anything to block real change for indigenous people in this country” on insiders before the election, including voice to parliament. The real wrecker on this issue is Jacinta Price, who will be used by the Coalition as “look, we’re not racist” for being against the referendum.
@ Sir Henry Parkes the Greens is a federated party whose policies are not created by MPs but by party members. MPs have moderate influence on policies but they are ratified by respective states and then agreed upon by the federal party, in this case the Blak Greens … so Ms Thorpe is not some sort of dictatorial force on the greens policy of also supporting treaty and truth, unlike Labor. In any case you sound like an absolute tosser, talking down to her as if she is stupid, which is a constant of how progressive indigenous politicians in this country are treated, whether Labor or Greens.
Mb
The experience of ATSIC was that the government of the day could dismantle a representative body if it wants to.
First Nations people want something which has more protections.
”
Jan 6says:
Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:46 am
Of course ‘the time’ never comes.
—————————
Unlike climate change where time is just about out, reconciliation in this country has been about slow change – infuriatingly and embarrassingly slow. But change has happened. 1967. Mabo and Wik and Keatings legislation (despite the hysterics of Tim Fischer). Sorry. And now Voice (I note the Uluru Statement is already 5 years old).
I don’t like it. It sucks how slow something so beneficial and necessary is taking place. But this referendum is not guaranteed to succeed. I would hate to think it is made harder by clouding what is in front of us with the next step.
You might be right. Talking up a treaty now while the focus is on a voice might be the right time for the conversation. But history tells me this country doesn’t take to reconciliation in big leaps. As sad as that is.
”
‘White Australia policy’ was official policy of Australian government and supported by both sides of politics.
So how can anyone expect this country to take reconciliation in big steps.
People like Rex live in some ‘Utopian’ world where things happen at the snap of his finger.
He wants ALP to break its election promise on
1. Uluru Statement
2. Climate change target
3. Tax cuts
because Greens want that.
He also want minority view imposed on majority.
I’m off to visit Crown Casino and The Arts Centre but unsure about in what order.
Might also pick up a Peking duck from Chinatown later!
Sky generaly favers libverals but andrew clanell imo is more fair to labor then uhlman and probin was the only mainstream jernalist to grill gladys onher relaetionship with mcgwire calling on her to resign grileed morrison over cost off living and said dutton had abad start but seems to put a liberal sbin on things in his reports