Weekend miscellany (open thread)

Northern Territory by-election looms; JSCEM appointments made; report on Victorian ALP branch-stacking released.

In the absence of anything else to report:

• Former Northern Territory Chief Minister Michael Gunner formally retired from parliament on Wednesday, having relinquished the leadership in May in the wake of a heart attack. In contrast to its counterparts in Western Australia, who have still not fired the starter’s gun on a by-election for North West Central, the government has already announced August 20 as the date for the by-election in his Darwin seat in Fannie Bay, which he retained by 9.6% at the 2020 election.

• Labor’s five members of the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters are Jagajaga MP Kate Thwaites, Hawke MP Sam Rae, Blair MP Shayne Neumann and South Australian Senators Karen Grogan and Marielle Smith, one of whom will be the committee’s chair. There were four opposition members and one from the Greens in the previous parliament, but I’m unclear as to how that will play out this time.

• The report of Operation Watts, the joint inquiry by Victoria’s Independent Broad-based Anti-Corruption Commission and Ombudsman into certain Labor state parliamentarians’ branch-stacking activities, offers a wealth of invaluable detail on the hard realities of the operation of modern political parties.

Author: William Bowe

William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, has existed in one form or another since 2004, and is one of the most heavily trafficked websites on Australian politics.

632 comments on “Weekend miscellany (open thread)”

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  1. Ven says:

    No you don’t. You stand with Price, Thorpe, P1, nath, Steely, VE and so on.
    _______
    Actually, if my opinion mattered or was at all relevant, I’d go with the majority at the convention because why not? It’s a good start.

    But I won’t sit around and abuse an Indigenous leader like Thorpe for having her opinion. That would be kind of insulting, in fact, adding insult to injury considering everything.

  2. BK at 11:14 am

    Today the first of my direct family has contracted Covid. He has been suitably admonished :-). He’s in Canberra, nowhere near us.

    A bit harsh, sending the poor bugger to Canberra for catching covid. 🙂


  3. Taylormadesays:
    Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:18 am
    The Age 30/07
    Elsewhere, Burney said she did not believe the Voice model needed to be finalised before Australians decided whether it should be constitutionally enshrined.
    _____________________
    Yeah. Good luck with that.
    Morrison was right, we don’t trust govt’s.
    The model needs to be locked in beforehand and we need as much detail as possible before we vote.

    Again I ask are IPA so stupid and dumb as the people they send to PB to post? (shaking my head emoji).
    Maybe they because look at their representatives in House and Senate.

  4. that simply put, the Constitution is a set of principles that underlie our systems of Government, and that Parliament, and only Parliament, can propose new Laws or change them. Parliament must recognise the outcome of a Referendum and if necessary, change or propose Laws to give effect to the result.

    This doesn’t sound right to me. I am not a lawyer, let alone a constitutional lawyer, but it seems clear to me that what is written in the Constitution acts to all intents and purposes like other law, but has different requirements on how it can be changed, who can interpret it, and can restrict parliament where other legislation cannot. Suggesting that the Constitution itself only gives ‘principles’ rather than being interpreted as law directly doesn’t make sense to me.

    And a referendum here has to give the specific proposed amendments to the constitution, which if passed become law – parliament doesn’t need to ‘give effect’ to that directly. There may well be details left to parliament to fill in (as in the specific case of the proposed amendment for the Voice), and legislation may be invalidated or otherwise impacted by a constitutional amendment that may require legislative ‘repair’ work, but when a constitutional amendment is passed, it is the law of the land straight away as I understand it.

  5. Zoomster
    Well remember ATSIC.

    It might work if this body was first set up then after six to twelve months then hold the referendum.

  6. Mexicanbeemer @ #150 Sunday, July 31st, 2022 – 12:02 pm

    Zoomster
    Well remember ATSIC.

    It might work if this body was first set up then after six to twelve months then hold the referendum.

    The last thing needed is another ATSIC that can be easily abolished by an unfriendly govt of either side. My second last role was in the library that inherited the ATSIC collections and we did our best to keep adding relevant material.

  7. Regarding a treaty, I’m wondering if a State by State approach is more applicable.

    After all it was the colonies that dispossessed the original inhabitants of their land, and it would allow a more geographically focused approach to the concerns of the different nations. It may be case, especially in the larger States, that multiple treaties are the way to go.

    Victoria is already negotiating and Queensland and the NT are moving in that direction.

  8. Emilius van der Lubben says:
    Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:43 am
    @ Sir Henry Parkes … Ms Thorpe is not some sort of dictatorial force on the greens policy of also supporting treaty and truth, unlike Labor. In any case you sound like an absolute tosser, talking down to her as if she is stupid, which is a constant of how progressive indigenous politicians in this country are treated, whether Labor or Greens.
    _________________________________________________________
    I am not a tosser, absolute or otherwise. I take exception to your personal rudeness, which I myself try to avoid on this blog, even when I strongly disagree with other posters.
    I am not a tosser; I reserve the right to criticise anyone, whether indigenous, female or whomever.
    My criticism of Senator Thorpe is that she is refusing to abide by a consensus around the Uluru Statement from the Heart; a consensus arrived at by an exhaustive, drawn-out process involving as many indigenous people as possible from across the country.
    Any resolutions arrived at would not have satisfied everyone concerned in every respect. Lidia Thorpe’s subsequent dissing of the process was not a case of an Aboriginal person rejecting solutions imposed by white elites. It was a case of someone throwing a tantrum because most participants in the process didn’t agree with her.

  9. Apologies. I didn’t call you a tosser, I said you were sounding like one. I’m sure you’re a very nice person!! 🙂

    In any case, if she is “refusing to abide by a consensus,” then there never really was a consensus was there? Having consensus in indigenous affairs is like having quiet in a classroom.

    In doubly any case, this doesn’t mean the Greens or Thorpe are going to block Voice just because there is no Treaty yet, that would be ridiculous and the Greens have said nothing to that specific affect (that is, threatening loss of supply for one for the other.)

  10. Look at how White Australia policy was dismantled and Aboriginal affairs progressed in Australia.
    Harold Holt started the ball rolling on Aboriginal matters by having a referendum to recognise them as Australian people fit to vote (is it true that they were not even recognised as normal human beings as some say?).
    Then Whitlam, Hawke, Keating, Rudd made important contributions wrt Aboriginal affairs. Abbott used to sleep in Aboriginal tents once every year as some sort of weird Atonement for not doing anything for them. Although White Australia policy officially ceased to be Australian policy earlier it was Fraser, who slowly started to dismantle it by allowing Asian people entry into Australia in official capacity. Hawke progressed it further by making Australian Immigration policy non-discriminatory.
    Without those 2 contributions from Fraser and Hawke, Australia may not be having so many POC.

    The most tragic figure when it comes to Aboriginal affairs is Malcolm Turnbull. He calls himself a ‘liberal’ when it comes to social policies. He did not achieve anything on Aboriginal affairs. To satisfy RWNJ of his party he did not do anything for first Nations people.

  11. Barney in Cherating @ #458 Sunday, July 31st, 2022 – 12:01 pm

    Regarding a treaty, I’m wondering if a State by State approach is more applicable.

    After all it was the colonies that dispossessed the original inhabitants of their land, and it would allow a more geographically focused approach to the concerns of the different nations. It may be case, especially in the larger States, that multiple treaties are the way to go.

    Victoria is already negotiating and Queensland and the NT are moving in that direction.

    Possibly. Ideally the framework and the foundational mandate would be national. I would suggest the only reason the states are moving forward is that national politics has too often and for too long been controlled by self serving a_holes.

  12. Treaty is best done by the states but this does not preclude the federal government from also participating in treatymaking per se

  13. Mexicanbeemer @ #441 Sunday, July 31st, 2022 – 11:33 am

    Why does the voice need to be in the constitution when its possible to set up a body containing every tribal group’s leader.

    Because that is what was asked to begin to redress a deep ongoing hurt. And it is such a little thing, harming no-one, and with much meaning. It is a gift to all of us.

  14. I note that the blockers and wreckers have moved on to fresh pastures today. The words have changed but the music is the same. I note that Cash has joined nath, P1, Rex, Steelydan, Thorpe and Price. All class!
    An excellent reason for the Voice is that it will be the legitimate expression of Indigenous opinion – something that Wyatt, Burney, Price, Dodson, Pearson or Thorpe can never claim for themselves.

  15. In a federation with Constitutional powers distributed between the states and the Commonwealth there should be treaties with each jurisdiction.

  16. Late Riser @ #406 Sunday, July 31st, 2022 – 10:21 am

    I hope to catch up with Insiders later. From comments here it sounds relevant. (Thank you for them.)

    The following may be apocryphal, but I’ve read that the well known science fiction story “War of the Worlds” was in part inspired by the treatment of the Tasmanian Aboriginals. Even if untrue, it’s worth thinking on.

    The shops beckon…

    Possibly, though Wells was also very familiar with the effects of measles & smallpox on other British colonies. Wells was also familiar with Samuel Butler’s work – including Erewhon, which is set in a fictional NZ (Butler spent some time in the South Island) and includes a satirical inversion of the social costs of illness and crime.

  17. Thorpe was one of 7 people who walked out of a group of 250. The remaining 243 people agreed to The Statement.
    The problem is not that Thorpe has personal views. The problem is that her views are given disproportionate amplification by the Greens – and by the democracy murdercrats. This is not the first timt that the Greens have chosen sordid politics over good policies. The other problem with her views? The other 243 got it right in terms of logic.

  18. Mexicanbeemer
    As long as each jurisdiction’s treaty sticks to yhe Constitution there is no need for a legal mess. The High Court could sort out any problems. Given the hugely varied history and circumstances, it makes sense for each state to make a separate treaty.

  19. Emilius van der Lubben says:
    Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 12:35 pm
    Apologies. I didn’t call you a tosser, I said you were sounding like one. I’m sure you’re a very nice person!!

    In any case, if she is “refusing to abide by a consensus,” then there never really was a consensus was there? Having consensus in indigenous affairs is like having quiet in a classroom.

    In doubly any case, this doesn’t mean the Greens or Thorpe are going to block Voice just because there is no Treaty yet, that would be ridiculous and the Greens have said nothing to that specific affect (that is, threatening loss of supply for one for the other.)
    _________________________________________________________
    Apology accepted!
    I’m sure that indigenous people are as capable of arriving at consensus as any other people. The large majority of participants at Uluru decided they wanted an indigenous voice to parliament as the next step in advancing indigenous people’s interests. It should be respected and supported.
    I hope you’re right that Senator Thorpe and the Greens are not going to try to block the voice. I have to state that I’d be a bit surprised if they campaigned against it, but stranger things have happened.
    Adam Bandt shows more maturity and nous than previous Greens’ leaders, but he still occasionally plays to the base with pointless gestures. Still, I am hopeful.

  20. rhwombat @ #467 Sunday, July 31st, 2022 – 12:45 pm

    Late Riser @ #406 Sunday, July 31st, 2022 – 10:21 am

    I hope to catch up with Insiders later. From comments here it sounds relevant. (Thank you for them.)

    The following may be apocryphal, but I’ve read that the well known science fiction story “War of the Worlds” was in part inspired by the treatment of the Tasmanian Aboriginals. Even if untrue, it’s worth thinking on.

    The shops beckon…

    Possibly, though Wells was also very familiar with the effects of measles & smallpox on other British colonies. Wells was also familiar with Samuel Butler’s work – including Erewhon, which is set in a fictional NZ (Butler spent some time in the South Island) and includes a satirical inversion of the social costs of illness and crime.

    Hmm. Many thanks. Skimming over a dozen or more references to Erewhon I can see the influence on modern culture. I will have to look deeper. (“Butlerian jihad” leapt out.) The amazing thing is it was written 150 years ago and apparently discusses the dangers of AI.

  21. Late Riser at 10.21 am

    Yes, unusually, Insiders today is worth watching, the whole of it.

    Those who have a wee difficulty admiring Stan Grant may have noticed that Mr Speers came across much worse, and quite ignorant of the basics about a referendum, e.g. requirement for a detailed case to be put to voters clearly before the vote.

    Mr Speers seems to be blighted by the mental malady of seeing his interviewees as a fish that must be trapped and caught.

    For the grammatical purists, Albo made one error of speech of a completely insignificant nature in passing, but on the substance he was excellent. Sounds like he has a plan to win the referendum, even if Dutton plays the recalcitrant irritant.

    By the way, what will Turnbull’s stance be? Likely to fall in line with the Costello line, i.e. Yes, which implies he was wrong in principle to reject the Uluru Statement from the Heart. Don’t expect him to apologise.

    For 20 years (or actually 15 until Turnbull’s decision in 2017) Noel Pearson ran the line that only the Tories in Australia could manage to get such a referendum passed. For an early example see ch 18 by Richard Ah Mat, “The Cape York View”, in What Good Condition? Reflections on an Australian Aboriginal Treaty 1986-2006, ANU E-press, 2006 p 223. (The whole book is online if anyone wants to do serious reading. Of course it’s a bit dated but Mick Dodson says it’s still relevant.)

    Pearson et. al. will now support Albo et. al. who will probably prove Pearson’s former view to be inaccurate, merely a false extrapolation from 1967 made in the wake of J.W. Howard’s attack on Aboriginal autonomy (to use the title of a 1994 book of essays by Nugget Coombs before little Lazarus rose again).

    What’s the difference in the end between a) LNP presenting the case for change at referendum (i.e. if Turnbull had the guts to argue for change in his party) and b) Albo, Burney, Dodson et. al. presenting the case now?

    Under a) Labor would have supported the change but there would have been significant Indigenous distrust because of a litany of policy failures by LNP.

    Under b) it’s not clear yet if the Turnbull legacy will continue to blight the LNP’s historical role, but there will be less distrust by Indigenous Peoples about the genuine nature of the process. That’s a significant difference.

    Note that Jacinta Price adheres to the Turnbull dogma of 2017 and will continue to do so even if Turnbull advocates Yes, but Lidia Thorpe has a very different background as an Indigenous activist. Her scepticism has been essentially tactical and may change before the vote.

  22. Linda Burney saying all the right things …

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-31/linda-burney-flags-makarrata-commission-for-truth-and-treaty/101286118

    “The Uluru Statement talks about three things: It talks about an enshrined Voice in the Constitution, but it also talks about the establishment of a Makarrata commission that would have two jobs — treaty and agreement-making, and also truth-telling,” she said.

    Good. One without the others is pointless.

  23. Player Onesays:
    Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 1:11 pm

    Linda Burney saying all the right things …

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-31/linda-burney-flags-makarrata-commission-for-truth-and-treaty/101286118

    “The Uluru Statement talks about three things: It talks about an enshrined Voice in the Constitution, but it also talks about the establishment of a Makarrata commission that would have two jobs — treaty and agreement-making, and also truth-telling,” she said.

    Good. One without the others is pointless.

    Well that’s what the Statement from the Heart says, so why would she say anything different?

    Labor’s policy is to implement the Statement.

  24. Dr Doolittle
    Paul Kelly covered Noel Pearson comment about referendums in one of his books. Pearson was talking about the lack of bipartisan support and the lack of indigenous leader’s relationship with the Howard government and that was why he felt that if the conservatives could be convinced to get on board then it would be more likely to pass.

  25. For the Teslarati and anti-Musks, this article confirms much of what most of us think.

    “The trends have shown up in one consumer survey and market research report after another: Tesla commands high brand awareness, consideration and loyalty, and customers are mostly delighted by its cars. Musk’s antics, on the other hand? They could do without. Creative Strategies, a California-based customer-experience measurer, mentioned owner frustration with Musk in a study it published in April. A year earlier, research firm Escalent found Musk was the most negative aspect of the Tesla brand among electric-vehicle owners surveyed.”

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-30/elon-musk-s-antics-turn-owners-and-would-be-buyers-against-tesla?srnd=premium-asia

  26. Jackol at Noon, Ven at 12.36 pm

    Jackol you are correct but there are complexities if ill will exists.

    Ven, on the matter of the 1967 referendum you appear to have been misled (with many others). It wasn’t about the right to vote. Indigenous people with that right in the less awful colonies (e.g. SA) continued to have that federally after 1901, but the franchise was extended to all Indigenous people only in 1962, as a result of a successful campaign by FCAATSI, pointing to the need for Australia to be better than South Africa.

    The 1967 referendum counted Indigenous people in the census and gave me the Commonwealth power to make “special laws” for Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders. A problem arose because the technical process used to achieve that objective was later abused by those with evil intent, such as J.W. Howard.

    The technical process was to remove an exclusion of “the aboriginal race” from a real bastard of a provision called the “race” power, section 51 (26) of the Constitution.

    When the High Court came to interpret that provision in the Kartinyeri (Hindmarsh Island bridge) case in 1998, Michael Kirby said the ambiguity about whether or not that section now permitted racial discrimination against Indigenous peoples after the 1967 referendum had to be resolved in accordance with international law, which forbids such discrimination.

    His enlightened view was not endorsed by a majority of his High Court colleagues, with at least two of them saying that section 51 (26) permits racial discrimination against First Nations people of the kind that was institutionalised in South Africa, or even Nazi Germany.

    Of course the government of J.W Howard argued before the Court that it was entitled to be racist and thus discriminate against First Nations people alone. Such was the mentality of that thug.

    Assuming that the referendum to enshrine a First Nations Voice passes, what will it do?

    It will not stop another Liberal government like J.W. Howard’s being discriminatory bastards towards First Nations people (because the so-called “race” power will still exist in the Constitution) but it will make that harder to do, because the Voice will amplify First Nations opposition to such shameful political bastardry.

  27. Emilius van der Lubben @ #329 Sunday, July 31st, 2022 – 11:29 am

    @ C@tmomma
    Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 6:39 am

    Midterms depressed turnout, Black candidate close to Trump, apathy towards the Democratic Party due to the total failure that has been the 2020–2022 legislative term in America. Georgian voters will punish Raphael Warnock for that (whether he deserves it or not). I think of the tossups at the upcoming election, Georgia is most likely to go back to Republican. Warnock needs to run on a platform that he’s a skilled politican & his opponent is a cultist football player.

    Trumpists will be out & in full force in Georgia following 2020’s election result.

    Again, hope I’m wrong. It’s just crazy to think Dems can hold the US Senate which would mean they would need to lose a net of literally zero seats, which is impossible given current generic ballot polling and how lower turnout in midterms is good for the GOP in states like Nev and Ariz.

    I really have to pick you up on a couple of things you stated as fact there.

    Firstly, ‘Midterms depressed turnout’. This will not be your average, run-of-the-mill Midterm election. The SCOTUS is on the ballot. Just today, Justice Samuel Alito said he’s only just started on winding back the clock. This will supercharge turnout for Young College Educated and Poor Black and Hispanic Women, Middle Class Families who fear for their LGBTQI+ kids and daughters who may be adversely affected by a pregnancy or need or want an abortion. Do you honestly think turnout will be depressed? The polls aren’t showing it.

    Secondly you don’t seem to have a clue about Georgia, aren’t taking notice of polls from Georgia, and forgetting that Trump-endorsed Senate candidates, Purdue and Loeffler, lost last time and they were sane. Herschel Walker is a brain-damaged whack job. Georgians aren’t that stupid. Not to mention that the Democrats haven’t even started on Arizona, where former astronaut, Senator Mark Kelly, is back on the ballot against an election denier. The only Republican I give half a chance to is J.D Vance. And only because people love his book, ‘Hillbilly Elegy’. Dr Oz in Pennsylvania has a snowball’s chance in hell of beating John Fetterman.

    Turnout + better candidates are favouring the Democrats.

  28. The Vic Libs on a march to madness.

    Sumeyya Ilanbey
    @sumeyyailanbey
    Liberal MP Cathrine Burnett-Wake, who replaced Edward O’Donohue just 8 months ago, has lost preselection to Renee Heath. Several Liberals earlier this year raised concerns about Heath’s links to the City Builders Church which is accused of historic links to gay conversion therapy

  29. Dr Doolittle
    It will not stop another Liberal government like J.W. Howard’s being discriminatory bastards towards First Nations people (because the so-called “race” power will still exist in the Constitution) but it will make that harder to do, because the Voice will amplify First Nations opposition to such shameful political bastardry.
    —————————-
    That is why there has to be a relationship otherwise it will be rejected as just noise.

  30. Rex Douglas @ #179 Sunday, July 31st, 2022 – 2:36 pm

    BK @ #484 Sunday, July 31st, 2022 – 2:28 pm

    The Vic Libs on a march to madness.
    _____
    Are they not already there?

    True. My bad.

    Matthew Guy has lost control of his party and the Vic Libs are now controlled by the mad religious right.

    Not even Taylormade will vote for this outfit.

    Herald Sun is saying that the Libs are dropping the EW link as Albo will not give any funding for it.
    Only a losing policy at the last two elections.
    Doesn’t stop the HS commentators going mad about this road is needed, I won’t vote Libs if this is the case, etc etc

  31. Again, hope I’m wrong. It’s just crazy to think Dems can hold the US Senate which would mean they would need to lose a net of literally zero seats, which is impossible given current generic ballot polling and how lower turnout in midterms is good for the GOP in states like Nev and Ariz.

    The generic ballot polling is currently even and the momentum with the Democrats.

    There is a significant disconnect between the current generic polling and the 538 predictions (for many reasons – some of which you state). The questions are, as C@t alludes to, will this be an atypical midterm election and can the Democracts continue to improve their appeal with good governing and good candidate selection.
    https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-political-environment-might-be-improving-for-democrats/


  32. Dr Doolittlesays:
    Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 2:11 pm
    Jackol at Noon, Ven at 12.36 pm
    ………
    …….

    The 1967 referendum counted Indigenous people in the census and gave me the Commonwealth power to make “special laws” for Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders. A
    …….

    How can one vote without being on census.
    Can someone register to vote without being on census? I don’t think so.
    Isn’t it true that Only human beings can be counted on census? That is reason a lot of people said that Aboriginal people are considered as human beings by Australian government only after the 1967 referendum counted Indigenous people in the census.

  33. Great to see Albo on Insiders today. Who was the last current PM to appear? Does anyone have a list of which PMs have and haven’t appeared on Insiders?

  34. Mexicanbeemer at 1.30, 2.29 pm

    There cannot be a relationship with a thug like J.W. Howard. And thug was how Pat Dodson described him to me a few weeks before the 2007 election.

    So the Voice is an important first step in a long process to ensure that Australian policy conforms with the CERD, the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination, which Australia ratified in 1975, and which was an important legal basis for the success of the two Mabo cases.

    Re Pearson’s view, Paul Kelly of the Murdoch rag perhaps has talked with Pearson over the years, but the source I gave (the 2002 chapter by Richie Ah Mat) is more reliable than Mr Kelly, since Pearson would likely have discussed the text of Ah Mat’s chapter in detail with him.

  35. Murdoch’s thoughts and prayers – wishing ill on Jacinda Ardern.

    He doesn’t have anything more than thoughts and prayers in NZ does he? No newspapers or Sky TV?

    NZ’s all-black mood bodes ill for Ardern ahead of election

    Frustration and anger at a flailing All Black side is emblematic of NZ’s crisis of confidence in its government and could prove disastrous for Jacinda Ardern at the 2023 poll.
    By CRAIG GREAVES (Oz headline)

  36. Late Riser at 1:09 pm

    The amazing thing is it was written 150 years ago and apparently discusses the dangers of AI.

    Something to whet your appetite
    .
    “Darwin among the Machines” is an article published in The Press newspaper on 13 June 1863 in Christchurch, New Zealand, which references the work of Charles Darwin in the title. Written by Samuel Butler but signed Cellarius .

    ……….We refer to the question: What sort of creature man’s next successor in the supremacy of the earth is likely to be. We have often heard this debated; but it appears to us that we are ourselves creating our own successors; we are daily adding to the beauty and delicacy of their physical organisation; we are daily giving them greater power and supplying by all sorts of ingenious contrivances that self-regulating, self-acting power which will be to them what intellect has been to the human race. In the course of ages we shall find ourselves the inferior race. …………

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darwin_among_the_Machines#Evolution_of_Global_Intelligence

  37. Ven at 3.11 am

    Simple. Census and Electoral Roll are two very different bureaucratic instruments. Latter does not depend on the former in any way. It could not be otherwise, partly because federal elections are every 3 years and census every 5 years.

    First Australian census was on 2 April 1911, after a few elections had been held, without a census.

  38. I’ve caught up with Insiders on iView. Some comments:

    * It was worth watching.

    * Skip to 8:45 if you want to avoid the week’s political argy/bargy.

    * Albanese’s interview starts at 20:00 and ends at 37:30. If I can summarise it with a trite metaphor, what Albanese seems to be asking is, “Do we want cake in the constitution?” That’s it. If the answer is “yes”, then the next step is baking a cake. He’s happy to leave the baking of the cake to others, for now he simply wants us to make room for cake. (And of course we can change the cake any time.)

    * The panel makes the point that “good manners” is too little motive for Voice, even when coupled that with “respect”. The issue clearly runs much deeper. Their frustrations are plain. Nevertheless I think you can glimpse Albanese’s motivations when he mentions a national pride in 60,000 years of civilisation, and how uplifting a Native Voice to Parliament would be for all Australians.

    * At 51:35 there’s a touching remembering of Archie Roach, followed by a moving musical finish.

    * As an aside, Stan Grant was the most personable I’ve seen him be for some time.

    EDIT: removed extra “to”

  39. citizen at 3.15 pm

    Yes, the New Zealand media is purer than Australia’s, partly because of being Murdoch free.

    Latest poll has right and left level, after the old W. Peters nag NZ first is excluded as below the 5% threshold (it doesn’t matter if a party wins an electorate seat but Peters lost his Tauranga seat long before his last failure).

    The recent poll (by a RW group called Taxpayers’ Union-Curia) detected a fall in the standing of National leader Mr Luxon which it attributed, remarkably, to US Supreme Court anti-abortion crusade. Mr Luxon’s support level is 22% on that poll. J.W. Howard once bottomed at 16% but Luxon cannot rise twice.

    Previous National leaders have been no match for Ardern. Mr Luxon started better but he may drag the National vote down, even in difficult economic times.

  40. I’m actually wondering with the rightward shift of the LNP will they actually actively and officially campaign for a “no” vote in the Indigenous Voice to Parliament referendum.

    To my knowledge the Liberal federal Government did not do so in the 1967 referendum, and even the South African National Party recommended a yes vote in the 1992 whites-only referendum on continuing the dismantling of apartheid.

    That being said I believe John Howard personally voted “no” in the 1967 referendum.

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