Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters chair James McGrath has floated another reform bubble, this time proposing that parliamentarians should be prevented from resigning from their parties under pain of either facing a by-election or being replaced by the nominee of the party for which they were elected. The Australian helpfully summarises recent situations where this would have applied: “Jacqui Lambie and Glenn Lazarus from the Palmer United Party, Cory Bernardi and Julia Banks from the Liberal Party, Fraser Anning and Rod Culleton from One Nation and Steve Martin from the Jacqui Lambie Network”. University of New South Wales constitutional law expert George Williams is quoted noting potential constitutional issues, particularly in relation to the lower house.
The proposal brings to mind the passage in New Zealand last year of what is colloquially known as the “waka jumping bill”, insisted upon by Winston Peters of New Zealand First as part of his coalition agreement with Labour after the 2017 election. This requires a constituency MP who quits their party to face a by-election, while party list MPs must vacate their seats and have them filled by the next candidate along from the list at the election. The move was poorly received by academics and the country’s Human Rights Commissioner, as it effectively gives party leaders the ability to dispense with troublemakers. It was also noted that Peters himself broke away from the National Party to form New Zealand First in 1990, but changed his tune after a split in his own party in 1998. However, the McGrath proposal would seem to be quite a lot less pernicious in that it would only apply to those who leave their parties of their own volition.
In other news, I had a paywalled article in Crikey on Tuesday regarding the YouGov methodological overhaul that was discussed here on Sunday, which said things like this:
Of course, transparency alone will not be sufficient for the industry to recover the strong reputation it held until quite recently. That will require runs on the board in the form of more-or-less accurate pre-election polls, for which no opportunity will emerge until the Queensland state election still over a year away. It’s far from certain that YouGov will prove able to get better results by dropping the telephone component of its polling, notwithstanding that phone polling is less conducive to the kind of detailed demographic parsing that it apparently has in mind. Nonetheless, the movements the pollster records over time within demographic and geographic sub-samples will almost certainly offer insights into the shifting sands of public opinion, even if skepticism will remain as to how it sees the numbers combining in aggregate.
I’m not sure when exactly we will see the fruits of YouGov’s approach, but we’re due some sort of Newspoll result on Sunday or Monday, and the fortnightly Essential Research falls due on Tuesday – we’re still waiting for the latter to resume voting intention, but I was told a little while ago it would happen soon.
Tristo
Labor is currently led by the person who was voted for by grassroots members, albeit six years ago, so if your treatise is correct, the shift leftwards is already happening.
This doesn’t excuse Aus from making an effort, of course.
JW
I suggest you read the following two pieces word for word and with a critical eye.
http://www.ecaj.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/ECAJ-Antisemitism-Report-2018.pdf
https://www.theage.com.au/national/the-anti-semitic-labor-party-20041025-gdyv33.html
The ALP will never be successful. It’s only chance is to become a genuine Social Democratic party, shed the union movement from conference and reform its membership and pre-selection structure.
“What’s this nonsense?”
Completely normal wRex.
zoomster @ #831 Sunday, September 29th, 2019 – 3:53 pm
Only took two election catastrophes for the union factions to catch on…
Seriously, the choice is open up the party or die
Tristo says:
Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 3:44 pm
> 80% of this vote already comes back to Labor as preferences, so I repeat;
And this would gain them what?
The Indonesian fires smash biodiversity on a massive scale, displace traditional owners and replace them with massive corporate palm oil plantations. The fires contribute mightily to global warming, and are a major health threat to millions of people.
Could Trump be so stupid to believe some Ukrainian trying to save their arse? You betcha!
A cracker of a development.
‘The prosecutor was facing growing criticism in Kyiv over stalled investigations into corruption. In November 2018, when Giuliani says he began to focus on the country, Lutsenko offered to resign after a young anti-corruption activist, Kateryna Handziuk, died from a sulphuric acid attack.
Lutsenko stayed in office. But the Guardian has learned that he began seeking a lifeline to the US, in the hope it might save him as difficulties back home intensified.
That lifeline was Giuliani.
“[Lutsenko] strongly needed some political ally, he believed that Giuliani could convey specific messages to Trump, and he created this message to become more interesting to the American establishment,” said a law enforcement source familiar with the Giuliani-Lutsenko connection.
That Giuliani might have been fed information by Ukraine’s then-top prosecutor that was adulterated to make it more appealing to Trump is a startling potential twist in the developing scandal.
According to the Guardian’s source, Lutsenko appeared in conversation with Giuliani to have invented a “don’t prosecute” list he claimed was given to him by the then US ambassador to Kyiv, Marie Yovanovitch – news of which apparently made its way up to Trump.
Yovanovitch was abruptly removed in May after Giuliani pressed for changes in the embassy. Giuliani has since claimed without evidence that the “don’t prosecute” list was part of a liberal anti-Trump conspiracy that included Yovanovitch and was bankrolled by the philanthropist George Soros.
The US state department has dismissed the claim as an “outright fabrication”.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/sep/29/rudy-giuliani-ukraine-biden-trump-impeachment
I don’t think they will, but if the greens could grow out of their pathological need to define themselves by what they are stopping, pulling down or putting an end to, and focused on community, jobs and what good they could do, they could pretty much be the official opposition after then next election.
Labor can have the 10% of centralists without the brains or courage to get down off the fence.
Talking to a family member who is also a member of the local ALP branch about the upcoming branch meeting and they were just ‘shouldn’t we change to the greens’.
Although credit where credit is due, the ALP did this week catchup with the 200 year old realization that debtors prison is a really sh1t idea. Perhaps it was more the look of arresting and strip searching a woman with broken ribs, who had tried to seek police assistance after she was assaulted that made them realise their policy was very very bad. How could a labor govt have waited more than 2 years and still only have their hand forced to a basic 200 year old idea by such a disgusting story.
Barney in Tanjung Bunga
says:
> 80% of this vote already comes back to Labor as preferences, so I repeat;
And this would gain them what?
___________________________
Actually the votes that elect Green representatives in the Lower and Upper Houses don’t come back to the ALP at all.
Fortunately in the UK voting is not compulsory.
This saves the voter from being forced to choose between Johnson and Corbyn.
“Oh, I forgot to say … I became a grandmother for the first time this week!”
Meh. I’ve been a grandad for a decade and I’ve only just turned the big 5-0.
Boerwar @ #842 Sunday, September 29th, 2019 – 4:04 pm
The Informal Party is BACK !
Of important note here in Indonesia is that the Parliament has just reduced the powers of the national corruption watchdog, which directly impacts on their ability to prosecute these corporations responsible for many of the fires.
This has lead to widespread protests around the Country since last Monday.
I found this article today …
https://www.catherineingram.com/facingextinction/
It is a long-form essay about the likely consequences of global warming – physical, emotional and spiritual. I know nothing about Catherine Ingram other than what I have gleaned from this article – she seems to be from NSW, but at some point was based in the USA (she was best friends with Leonard Cohen). She is apparently a Buddhist, but the article is not religious in tone, and neither does it preach. However, her background means she brings a slightly different perspective to the issue than the one we usually see.
It is exactly the kind of article I would love to have written if I had any talent for writing. It lays out the facts without labouring them. It lays no blame and points no fingers. It is neither optimistic nor pessimistic. It is, however, meditative and profound.
She concludes:
Note that she is not suggesting we give up the fight against global warming. She actually encourages people to seek out and join movements like Extinction Rebellion. I believe she is saying that what is preventing us tackling the problem effectively is that we don’t really understand who we are as a species, what motivates us, or how we got to this point. It is ourselves we are in conflict with, not the planet.
I commend the article to anyone interested not only in where we are heading, but also why.
The Greens dance with cognitive dissonance?
1. The Greens are going to phase out coal mining, coal exports and coal-fired power generation by 2030.
2. The Greens are currently gaining around 1-2% per election in their primary vote.
3. On this trend, and from a base of around 10%, this may conceivably enable the Greens to form government at 2040 at the earliest.
Using this as their basic policy and political framework, the Greens:
1. Criticize Labor for not having the Greens policies to the letter.
2. Criticize Labor for not winning elections.
3. Criticize Labor the same as for not being like their model leaders, Brown, Milne and Di Natale.
Johnson and Corbyn together are disapproved of by far more than half the population of the UK.
The Johnson and Corbyn elites are dragging the people to where they definitely do not want to go.
Giving them a false choice between power-mad ratbags is the mere window dressing of a shattered democracy, a shattered loss of the will of the people, and a shattered sovereignty.
If the Queen had any ovaries she would run for prime minister and romp it in.
By giving its members a say in the selection of the leader, Labor has gone further than the Greens.
WWP
But would the greens accept them? 😆
In any case, I don’t think the leopard could change its spots.
Boerwar @ #848 Sunday, September 29th, 2019 – 4:17 pm
What’s wrong with nationalism that is implemented in a way that protects the lower-middle class from inequality ..?
@@C@tmomma
I am saying pretty much the same stuff as former Senator Doug Cameron, making the Labor Party more left-wing than the Greens and returning back to the party it was before the Hawke-Keating government. I would like to see ordinary union members in exchange for small annual fee, the share in the running of the party, including preselecting candidates and electing leaders
Personally I can’t see the Greens becoming a major party, because they are a middle class based party. They are unable to reach out to working class voters in the outer suburbs and provincial cities. I am one of those back in the day, would have voted for the Labor party, however vote for the Greens but cannot be a supporter. I believe it has to do with myself, growing up in a single parent family, in a housing commission estate.
Boerwar
A fragrant thought, Elizabeth could retire to being only Queen of Scotland and leave them to sort it out for themselves.
‘…making the Labor Party more left-wing than the Greens and returning back to the party it was before the Hawke-Keating government..’
Out of power for generations.
Margaret Hodge is one of hundreds of UK Labour MPs who have not faced a pre-selection contest for several terms and who are downright affronted by the notion that they should have to earn that privilege every term. She and her fellow entitled whiners are holding Labour back. It would be a good thing if she loses. What is wrong with these people who feel entitled to a parliamentary seat seat for life? Where does that level of narcissism come from?
We lock ourselves into, for eg. cotton exports, as part of ‘globalism’ despite it contributing to the demise of the MDB…. ??
For the Greens to become a major party they would need to run strongly on issues of economic class – by far the biggest contributor to people’s level of wellbeing and power in society – and make the social and identity politics issues important yet secondary. People from professional classes have the luxury of prioritising social issues but people in the working class and the underclass really need structural and systemic changes to how we produce things and allocate resources.
Right now Labor is a party of centrist wankers, for centrist wankers, by centrist wankers. They are “conservatives with a conscience” and useful idiots for the ruling class. Their electoral problem is that probably 10 percent of voters at most are enamoured of a centrist wanker agenda. The other 20 to 25 percent of the electorate that votes Labor do so out of weary resignation, not out of any enthusiasm for what Labor offers.
If there is some non union based woke left wing way to win back low information – low interest voters in seats like Lindsay, Robertson, Forde, Petrie, Longman, Herbert, Flynn, Dixon, Capricornia, Chisholm, La Trobe, Bass, Braddon, Boothby, Swan, Hasluck (not to mention whilst holding onto seats like Macquarie, Gilmore, Lilley, Hunter, Lyons etc), then I’d be genuinely interested in seeing it all laid out.
Surely, the the voters were aching for a non union based left wing party the Greens would already be above 30% and / or a party like Reason would be also polling above Labor.
When will our Green friends and shit stirrers like nath and Rex acknowledge that:
1. The Low interest low information voters in the kind of seats I’ve listed above determine elections; and
2. None of the ideological based positions and / or policies peddled by them are attractive (and are in fact repellent) to these voters.
It is no answer to the above to point out that Labor has failed. We all got that memo. But I have yet to see one single post on bludger that either acknowledges the political reality or suggests a realistic pathway to win back the seats that need to be won in order to form government and hence implement any sort of change.
Anyone using the term ‘woke’ spends too much time in right wing elitist circles
And Rudy Guiliani has given yet another tell all interview…
https://youtu.be/uOLPZ1Wdblc
‘Nicholas says:
Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 4:29 pm
Margaret Hodge is one of hundreds of UK Labour MPs who have not faced a pre-selection contest for several terms and who are downright affronted by the notion that they should have to earn that privilege every term. She and her fellow entitled whiners are holding Labour back. It would be a good thing if she loses. What is wrong with these people who feel entitled to a parliamentary seat seat for life? Where does that level of narcissism come from?’
The extreme Left who increasingly dominate the British Labour Party will leave no stone unturned. Hodge is getting the treatment for speaking truth to power. In particular she has been forthright in speaking against antisemitism. MPs like Hodge are being systematically run out of the British Labour Party. Just as moderate Tory MPs are being systematically run out of their Party.
Choose your party partisan poison. Get with the Program.
This leaves the voter with Hobson’s Choice: Extreme Right nutters under that supreme guttersnipe Johnson, and the Looney Left who are running the utterly spineless, eternally vacilating Corbyn.
If the Brits are extremely lucky they will have the Lib Dems/Scots Nationalists holding the BOP after the next election.
Tristo @ #1172 Sunday, September 29th, 2019 – 4:23 pm
Tristo, I appreciate that you are trying to tease out a path to victory for the Labor Party and I appreciate that. However, what you have suggested is not implementable.
1. Doug Cameron says a lot of things but it doesn’t make him right. He has sound ideas but they don’t conform with the modern political landscape. Doug Cameron is our own Jeremy Corbyn and has as much chance of Australia voting for a Cameronesque Labor leader as it seems the UK is interested in voting for Jeremy Corbyn. As much as I am interested in a lot of Corbyn’s policy leanings, like Cameron’s, it seems to me that the majority of the electorate is not. And it’s a majority of the electorate that elects governments.
2. The Hawke-Keating government transformed the Labor Party forever. There’s no going back to a time before that, mainly because so much of the era after Hawke-Keating has been Coalition governments implementing their own policies and undoing Labor’s. So it would take Labor in government a very long, long time indeed to do what you envisage. That is, if indeed, the electorate allow them to. Highly unlikely in the current climate.
3. Union members can support whichever political party they like, and, quite frankly, there’s a lot of them that support the Coalition these days. Not to mention the fact that the % of workers in unions these days is abysmally low and getting lower, so tying them up to the Labor Party would achieve 3/5 of bugger all of an increase in Labor’s vote and probably drive more voters away than it would attract. No, what Labor needs to do is attract more of the SME electors and their employees and those people of good heart who still subscribe to Labor values.
(And guys, enough of the derision about ‘Labor values, what are they anymore? It’s too easy a potshot to take).
4. Also, admitting that you are the son of a Single Mum who came from a Housing Commission environment makes you one of the few left who actually votes for Labor. Most of them have subscribed to the ‘Aspirational’ bs from the Reactionary Conservatives and vote accordingly these days.
5. Finally, yes, The Greens are a party of the Middle Class, or the Knowledge Class (ie the well-educated), as Guy Rundle likes to call them as he sucks up to them on Crikey.
Anyway, Tristo, you have a good mind and a good heart, so keep thinking. 🙂
p1
Thanks for the link. I have had a speed read and will return to it for some enjoyable cogitation.
Andrew_Earlwood @ #861 Sunday, September 29th, 2019 – 4:45 pm
As soon as the ALP cuts ties with its vested interests they might have a chance at producing and selling a policy manifest that appeals to the wider masses.
That’s the foundation of anything that follows.
Andrew_Earlwood,
In Robertson I’m trying to get a Left Wing Populist, otherwise known as someone everyone knows and likes, to be the next candidate. It’s hard yakka trying to get the reigns off Centre Unity. 😆
Did you see that Queensland Labor have boxed clever with their candidate for Mayor of brisbane City Council and chosen former 7 political reporter, Patrick Condren?
That’s what I’m talking about!
I woke therefore I am.
The wealthy Greens, masters of the knowledge economy know that they can zoom off to their gated eco-communities whenever they need to buy their way in. In the meantime, they treat their fellow humans like ants:
1. The Greens are going to phase out coal mining, coal exports and coal-fired power generation by 2030.
2. The Greens are currently gaining around 1-2% per election in their primary vote.
3. On this trend, and from a base of around 10%, this may conceivably enable the Greens to form government at 2040 at the earliest.
As soon as the Greens cut their ties with vested interests they will form government.
As soon as the Liberals and the Nationals cut their ties with vested interests they will form government.
I am woke therefore I am not sleep.
There is a hurricane heading towards the UK. There has never been one of such intensity – “extremely powerful category 5 hurricane – strongest hurricane on record this far north and east in the Atlantic”…
But on the other hand, as soon as Labour does what the Greens urge them to do and cut its ties with vested interests Labor will form government.
Rex Douglas says:
Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 3:32 pm
lizziesays:
Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 3:29 pm
It’s not my fault Labor is a closed shop to anyone outside the union movement.
What’s this nonsense?
The field of leadership potentials is restricted by the need to be from a union/faction.
No wonder there’s a dearth of talent.
The party needs to open up to the masses…
Tristo says:
Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 3:36 pm
The interesting thing that could happen if the ALP was made more democratized, especially if party members elect the leadership, is that the party could very well undergo a considerable left-ward shift and start winning over disaffected former left-wing Labor voters, who currently vote for the Greens, although would happy vote for a more Progressive ALP.
There are no barriers to application. Labor welcomes new members, including emigres from the Gs.
spr
I know Ireland has always been a bit of an addendum to the History of the English People but it does rather look as if that hurricane is heading towards Ireland.
Serves them right for blocking Brexit.
BW
You know if you are too woke you have an increased risk of Alzheimer’s?
Lack of sleep is a prime suspect in this disease.
The Greens are open to the masses.
Which is why the Greens are the government.
And if Labor would only open itself to the masses it could be the government too.
As well as the Greens.
You know it makes sense.
Two governments, one for each opening up to the masses.
But, wait. Where are the masses? What happened to them?
Rex Douglas says:
Sunday, September 29, 2019 at 4:43 pm
It’s a word that has a meaning, so if you’re upset that someone correctly directed it towards you, then it just highlights your lack of self awareness.
Anyway, I would have thought you’d celebrate your wokeness, it’s all you’ve got! 🙂
spr
We all have to die of something. As an exit strategy, Alzheimer’s has its pros and cons.
Barney in Tanjung Bunga @ #1199 Sunday, September 29th, 2019 – 5:04 pm
I hear Mark Latham and Sam Newman use that term quite a lot…
Boerwar @ #1198 Sunday, September 29th, 2019 – 5:03 pm
“There go the people. I must follow them, for I am their leader.”