1,359 comments on “North Carolina and Indiana minus four days”

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  1. Back from the taxi run to find on the last thread some more interst comments

    #684 last line

    After you reading Catrina #819 and Kirri #814 who are your colleagues from whom I assume you are unwilling to distance yourself , I have now the option
    of using their model to other blogers seeing its condoned , since conviction is not an issue but standards were made an issue

    “The Rev freakin’ Wright is not Barack Obama, and is as unlike him as anyone you could imagine. Wright shows what Obama is NOT,..’

    Ron says: this is Kirri back peddling ,”distancing” himself from his previous Pastor
    remarks. Kirri is now (mark/K1) ‘disowning’ the Pastor whose NOW unlike Obama

  2. When a new thread starts, just for appearance’s sake, can we please make an effort to leave comments which are … you know, interesting? Of conceivable interest to newcomers, and not just feeding back into the closed loop of the previous thread? Thank you for your cooperation.

  3. “David Plouffe, the manager of Mr. Obama’s campaign, said that if Mrs. Clinton won 55 percent of the remaining pledged delegates — an assumption he called “overly generous” — she would still need about two-thirds of the remaining uncommitted superdelegates to reach the 2,025 delegates needed to secure the nomination.

    Mrs. Clinton’s advisers did not dispute Mr. Plouffe’s calculation, in effect acknowledging the enormousness of their task.”

    On topic (and bless you William!)

  4. Bravo William @ 2

    For a while there i thought you were competing with John Edwards and Al Gore for going missing when your constituents were pleading for intervention.

    humour intended.

  5. Buenos dios, habitues, and William too, where in the Kingdom of Bludge (short trumpet fanfare) your request is our command.
    He looked into her eyes across his busy network desk, a pulse of negative energy crackled and shimmied the periphery of his “event horizon”, the red light was on, the cameras rolling……………it was precisely at this moment that their worlds collided.

    “You’re like I am, and I hate to say that.” — Bill O’Reilly, to Hillary Clinton.

  6. Wow EC @ 6 Hillary sleeps with enemy in a last-ditch neocon-Clinton push for the nomination. What a surprise. Surely she realises why they are supporting her- they think McCain has more chance of beating her.

    Shame about the maths

  7. That’s part of it, Andrew. McBombster and Brutusina are also Beltway house-trained and so either is infinitly more desirable to the WHIG/PNAC/Neocon/MIC/MSM cabal, than a guy whose ass ain’t owned.
    In the traditional American sense of the meaning.

  8. I thought Bill O’Reilly summed it up quite well when he said to Hillary that her policies were almost identical to Obama’s and that the main difference between them was personality. He then pointed out that Obi was really nice and likeable and that Hill was basically a divisive bitc*.

  9. William

    Hugely entertaining video clip on this thread, tip of the hat.

    And, thanks for your edict at the top of this thread, we are beholden.

  10. 10

    And Ecky:

    There’s a parallel in nature, (as if Clinton resides beyond the natural domain!) that perfectly demonstrates Hillary’s behaviour: the Golden Orb Spider.

    But the genders are reversed: Hillary is the tiny male spider and O’Reilly is the female spider.

    The big fat female spider spins a huge web and sits in the middle waiting for its prey to fly in. She then leaves the carcasses hanging (after draining their bodies of nutrient) wrapped as trophies for prospective males to see what a good provider she is.

    The very much smaller and weaker male hangs around on the periphery waiting, attracted by the food she ostentatiously displays, all the while risking everything for his chance to mate with a creature that if he isn’t extremely careful will devour him.

    So there’s little Hillary, drawn to the power, driven by her lust for power to the heart of the Fox web, where if she’s lucky she gets to procreate her message, but it might all backfire, and O’Reilly could just as easily rip off her head and suck out the juices.

    Isn’t nature wonderful?

  11. Kirri


    I can understand the site manager not wanting “newcomers to first see your
    rambliing nonsense argument first I quoted.

    You’ve hurt the sites credibility ,
    but not yours as you try to sneakily ‘disown ‘ the pastor hoping no one notices

    Then we had the echo , HarryH to demonstrate his are just as foolishly based

  12. Morning all.

    Anyone prepared to make a guess on Tuesday’s outcome?

    And on what will happen next?

    I’m guessing the narrative will continue to swing Clinton’s way. She will win Indiana by around 5% and Obama will pick up NC by 5-6. The belief that Hinton’s PA delegate advantage would be erased by NC has been all but erased in the last week.

    Even so, the delegate maths won’t change much but the result will mean we’ll all be staying on this ride into June.

    Clinton’s triumphs will probably see the MSM spotlight return to her – cos they do love to trash the triumphant – particularly when the winner is something of a triumphalist!

  13. From the Votemaster:

    In a special election in LA-06, it looks like Democrats are poised to take a heavily Republican seat as Don Cazayoux (D) is leading Woody Jenkins (R) 50% to 41% according to a new SurveyUSA poll. The election is tomorrow.


  14. 17

    “rambling nonsense”?

    Really? Coming from you Ron, that’s hysterically funny.

    Now, off to read some polls.

    (No further correspondence on this, OR ANY OTHER SUBJECT will be entered into!)

  15. 20
    Chris B

    read the article in the NYT I quoted above your post.

    It’s interesting that neither candidate has tried to cut loose from Obama.

    It’s also interesting that the Republican adverts do not even mention Hillary.

  16. Here’s a good take on the maths, contest by contest: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/5/2/20111/46760/475/508035

    In a nice twist on the runaway narrative, the writer lays out Clinton’s non-existent path to the nomination.

    The electoral-vote take is that ‘Suppose Obama wins 55% of North Carolina’s 115 pledged delegates for a total of 63 and Clinton wins 55% of Indiana’s pledged delegates for a total of 40. Then Clinton will have 1636 and Obama will have 1796 with 615 left to go. Then as of Wednesday, Obama will need 228/615 = 37% of the rest and Clinton will need 388/615 = 63%.’

    And Chris B@20, a Don Cazayoux win would be one more SD for Obama.

  17. 22
    Ferny Grover

    That’s OK, we get it. Hillary Clinton is Hinton. (named in honour of the great mountaineer, Sir Edmund Hinton?)

  18. 1968. “Yes, of course he has the stuff to go all the way,” John J. Lindsay replied. “But he’s not going to go all the way. The reason is that somebody is going to shoot him. I know it and you know it. Just as sure as we’re sitting here somebody is going to shoot him. He’s out there now waiting for him And, please God, I don’t think we’ll have a country after it.”
    There was a stunned silence. Then, one by one, the other reporters agreed. But none asked the most heartbreaking question: Did Kennedy himself know it?”


    “Hello darkness, my old friend,
    I’ve come to talk with you again,
    Because a vision softly creeping,
    Left it’s seeds while I was sleeping,
    And the vision that was planted in my brain
    Still remains
    Within the sound of silence.
    In restless dreams I walked alone
    Narrow streets of cobblestone,
    ’neath the halo of a street lamp,
    I turned my collar to the cold and damp
    When my eyes were stabbed by the flash of a neon light
    That split the night
    And touched the sound of silence. “

    S & G.

    Always best to bear in mind that Obi’s enemies are playing for keeps.

  19. Ecky, you’ve been beating this slow drum, a funereal tattoo, for some time, and it’s probably good that you keep us reminded of what a violent, racist, and vile underbelly lies not much below the surface in US politics.

    It was depressing watch Gore last night on LL, he seemed resigned to Hillary, unsure if Obama could do it, and pessimistically sure that the USA was all but sunk. His lament that the Republic is lost was mournful, not angry, just the hopeless realisation that it has been dumbed down to the level of that yapping little whelp Bush, sold down the river to endless war for the Haliburtons et al, and was being herded with the cattle prod of fear into an Orwellian nightmare of its own making.

    Gore’s Olympian view of the sweep of US history has a soundtrack, it’s your drumbeat Ecky:

    Tombeau pour America

  20. “The very much smaller and weaker male hangs around on the periphery waiting, attracted by the food she ostentatiously displays, all the while risking everything for his chance to mate with a creature that if he isn’t extremely careful will devour him.”

    Good heavens, Kirri, we’ll simply never be able to get our heads around the line, “eat me, b*tch!”, ever again! Otoh, your example goes a long way to help explain the meaning of the term, “c*nt-struck”.

  21. 30
    Enemy Combatant

    The natural world offers a veritable feast of metaphors for human behaviour Ecky, and sometimes they are more telling that all the gossip pages put together.

    In this case, Hillary was putting herself into the maw of the Fox, or like a little cleaner fish, into the jaws of the shark for some mutual benefit.

    Symbiosis or dalliance, take your pick, but in her case, the risk was always that she’d get hurt, even in the smaller sense of her supporters going “huh?”.

    Morphing into a b!tch of the Rightwing press is not an appealing look.

  22. Pancho

    see you still quoting the biasely pro Obama Dailykosto to support your foolish math based arguments for Obama. Of course you could quote thirtyeight site maths , but then he openly says on his site he is for Obama doesn’t he

    (oh , and he also contributes his pro Obama nonsense to Dailykos as you know)

  23. EC # 6 and DIOGENES #10

    Your loathing for Hillary causes you both not listen to Hillary’s words speaking.
    On THIS occasion you may look at her words without the loathing.

    There were only 4 issues discussed between O’Reilly vs Hillary. (all domestic)

    1/ Oil Companys. Hillary will put a supertax on them.. Obama will not

    2/Tax Rates. Hillary will increase rich rates & lower all others rates. Obama won’t

    3/ Healthcare.Hillary will cover all under/uninsured universally.Obama’s plan wo’nt

    4/ Bush/Cheney Conservation & Energy Bill. Hillary voted NO..Obama voted YES

    Hillary & Obama do disagree on these 4 domestic issues
    Let me know which of the above 4/ issues you disagree with Hillary on ??


    (The smiling assassin neocon O’Reilly kept sating Hillary above policys wee socialist which you’d expect from a neocon. I did not expect you 2 to agree with Bill O’Reilly.
    You 2 may have plenty of valid proofs for loathing Hillary , but not on this occasion)

  24. It’s a slow news Saturday, so let’s unmask yet another of the “Get Obi” lynch mob, shall we? Today’s Pitchfork & Flame carrier, Bludgers, is Carl P. Leubsdorf. Carl’s link is featured prominently in today’s “must click-ons” on today’s RCP Homepage, a source quoted by many a Bludger, sometimes with a great deal of conviction.

    “Obama’s Running Out the Clock – Carl Leubsdorf, Dallas Morning News” http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/05/obama_intent_on_running_out_th.html

    Away from the hustle and bustle of busy, work-a-day media life, guess who Carl Baby’s special two bestest buddies are? Well blow me down if it ain’t Davey “The Schnorer” Broder, and His Highness the Lord of Darkness, Novakula himself.

    David Broder is seen by many as a supporter of George W. Bush political adviser Karl Rove. (wiki)

    Bob Novak is a PNAC War-Shill and all-purpose GOPper dogsbody. He and Judith Miller (former NYT Ace-Stenographer) outted Ambassador Joe Wilson’s wife, Valery Plame, as a CIA Senior Field Agent in the NYTs couple of years back. Joey “Honest As The Day’s Long” Wilson had stated in a prior NYT Op-Ed that he was pissed that BushCo and the WHIGs had mendaciously insisted that Niger was schlepping weapons grade yellowcake uranium to Axis of Evil charter member, Saddam Hussein. (ecki)

    Bush had claimed that The Evil One’s nookular scientists were converting the stuff into “weapons grade” faster than a bunch of project n*ggers could cook up a batch of crystal meth!
    All concerned in the original Big Lie, that the former Ba’athist strongman was hoarding nukular WMDs, have subsequently withdrawn from that position.
    Except Richard Perle. But we’ll deal with him on a more appropriate occassion.

  25. #35 Jen Says: [this seems to cement it for Obama. Bloody maths, huh?] – not so fast ms. Jen.

    How often we watch a football match where one team is leading, playing well or very well, but it just cannot put the other team away. we all have the nagging feeling that then other team is going to win and often they did winning the match in the last few minutes. This Hillary Vs Obama match has that feeling all over.

    “Obama Intent on Running Out the Clock”

    [Barack Obama looks like the quarterback of a football team intent on running out the clock to preserve its lead in a championship game.

    By spurning future debates, he seeks to prevent giving rival Hillary Clinton a way to change the course of the game. He is playing it safe to avoid a mistake that could erase the small but firm margin he built through the first three quarters.

    As football fans can attest, that’s often risky strategy…..

    Mr. Obama might be right politically in trying to run out the clock. But that strategy could leave him vulnerable if the unexpected occurs and he lacks a high-level forum in which to respond]


    And this is not a strategy of a leader with ticker.

    ps: i notice the Obamabots Mutual Admiration and Idolizing society had been in full swing in the last couple of days.

  26. Finns-
    i am simply going on what the psephs are saying about the numbers required for Mrs Bill to pull it off. Of course it is possible, as stated, that if some unforseen catastrophe occurs for Obama (and Wright isn’t it) , that she could get the unprecendented and unlikely swings required, but we’re looking at probablities here, not fortune telling.
    Re Obama supporteres out in force- statistaically there are going to be more of us than you guys on a site that attracts a majority of centrist or left voters. It’s the conservatives in the minority – and Hillary represents conservative politics.

  27. Ron @ 37

    I’ve actually seldom disagreed with the fundamentals of Hillary’s policies, although I think she has disgraced herself with the “petrol tax holiday” fiasco. There are a few differences between her and Obi but not enough to matter much to me, especially as I live in Australia.

    It’s Hillary who is the problem, not her policies.

    This sums it up;
    “Anyone who thinks the Clinton’s care about anyone besides themselves is a fool. Anyone who thinks they have principles is deluded. Anyone who thinks they give a damn about the Democratic Party is hopelessly lost. Hell, by 1996 – after they had led the party over the cliff in 1994 – it was already completely overt, and Clinton followed the advice of the switch-hitting, prostitute-impressing and appropriately named political guru Dick Morris to pursue a strategy of triangulation. In other words, running against your own party in Congress. What more evidence does anyone need?”

    41 Finns
    At the end of an American football game, the team that’s behind usually gets one chance with the ball. The quarterback buys enough time to allow the wide receiver to reach the end zone and tosses a high ball in, hoping the receiver catches it for a touch-down. It’s called a “Hail Mary”. Hill’s buying some time and hoping to lob a “Hail Mary” in to a clique of SDs.

  28. Sounding silly Ron. Play the ball, not the man. If you have a response to any of the maths and pathways I have linked from DK, 538 or electoral-vote above, I’d love to hear them. I’m not holding my breath though, because, we both know, none exist.

  29. And there’s a good point, Jen. At what point does a professing ‘left’ candidate move sufficiently to the right to cross the mythical central line and become right-wing???

    In reality, the left/right descriptor is virtually redundant as both mainstream sides of politics fight over the middle ground. Sure, you will have some pollies with a stronger emphasis on social policy than others, but all agree these days that economics is the ‘main game’. The old Left has lost that battle, sadly. On the other hand, old Right-wingers used to pathologically believe in small government. These days Government of whatever stripe is getting bigger and bigger and its incursions into the lives of its citizens greater and greater. The Left may have won this battle, but the outcome is not what they would have wanted. Liberalism (the philosophy, not the Party) was a foundation of modern democracy, but is today on the wane as we enter the age of the Nanny/Protector State. We all thought that freedom and civil rights would be bolstered by the free flow of communication. The reality we now face is that never before have we had greater access to information, yet less ability to critically analyse it. For many, information is packaged and disseminated by a press that is anything but free, held captive by a small number of Murdoch clones who are themselves propogandists of Conservatism.

    When it comes to US politics, I haven’t seen anyone yet who isn’t right of centre on most economic and social issues – including Obama. It’s all a matter of degree. FDR may have come close with his Keynsian platform, but it was to manage a crisis at the time – and he was hardly a socialist. They all tend to be socially conservative, card carrying members of the Christian Establishment. Unlike the ALP, the Dems don’t have formal factions, though like any organisation you will find folk gathering around certain ideas and the personalities who champion them.

    I understand the argument that it’s necessary to be centre-right to get elected, but surely it’s daft to ascribe ‘left-wing’ to someone whose policy platform and/or public statements is anything but – regardless of their Party membership.

  30. This is a story that was just waiting to break.

    Carl Bernstein-Gate!

    Brutusina’s biographer, Carl Bernstein, applies the blowtorch to her belly as he shows her at her canniving worst. If the math doesn’t do it for her, then she’ll get into anything, including the gutter. For those who came in late, Carl Bernstein and his buddy, “Tumbledown” Bobby Woodward deep-throated their way into the jounalistic limelight as “The Original Watergaters”. Carl and Bobby were instrumental in GOP heavies finally making President Tricky Dicky an offer he couldn’t refuse.
    “Take the chopper ride from the lawn, Richard, or you’ll be knee-capped in front of the nation in primetime!”
    Tricky picked up on their nuance, like the seasoned old trouper that he was.

    The D.C. pub, The Watergate, has been charging way over “industry best practice” ever since. Pilgrims and geeks cop it in the keester rates-wise. Naturally, in a culture obsessed with hierarchy, special rates apply for Beltway Insiders and national celebrities.
    Over the last decade, the joint has turned into a regular Political FrontierLand*.
    You know…… “tall-tales and true….. from the legendary past,…..BOOM, boom, boom, boom, BOOM, boom, boom, boom,,,, aaahh-woo-woo-wooo-woo….”.


    *A subsidiary of the Disney franchise. Trade inquiries welcome.

  31. Diogenes

    Thanks for your frankness , again
    Full Quote: “”I’ve actually seldom disagreed with the fundamentals of Hillary’s policies, although I think she has disgraced herself with the “petrol tax holiday” fiasco. There are a few differences between her and Obi but not enough to matter much to me, especially as I live in Australia”…. then somone’s quote

    3 points you make plus the quote persons point.

    First point, the 4 Hillary policys I listed in #37 are the real 4 domestic policy differences between Hillary & Obama (importance later). The fact you seldom have fundamental differences to Hillary’s policys is what a frank objective Labor supporter would think.

    3rd point
    Agree the differences do not appear as important as we’re living in ‘oz’.
    However my view was/is from American-ecentric re the effect of Hillarys domestic policys that Obama disagrees with.
    The US middle/lower classes will think its important & benefical to get tax cuts at the expense of the rich.
    US familys will benefit directly (45million presently uninsured & about another 25 million under-insured) from having healthcare insurance so they can go to see a doctor as millions presently cann’t.
    US familys will see the benefit of a Oil Company supertax to fund equity distribution & fund alternative non coal usage. I can see a US family liking these Labor based ideas and if we lived there we may also.

    2nd point, “petrol tax holiday”. Its a match to McCain’s political stunt as a stunt
    Its separate to her legislative & regulation based Oil Company supertax policy
    which is sound for equity & conservation. The ‘petrol holiday’ was to attract
    swinging voters 2 register & support her in future Primarys & is I agree a politics based stunt and may pick up a few

    The quote you listed. Putting my head out here. Dick Morris would think he invented “triangulation” but he didn’t. Hawke did it against State ALP governments to get re-elected. Fraser did the same against State Liberal governments to get re-elected. Rudd clearly ‘distanced’ himself from the unpopular NSW ALP & Yemma. Rudd in reality ‘bagged’ Beattie’s Council amalgamations whilst cleverly capitalising on his otherwise popularity. Its a standard political strategy to offset the reverse tactic the other ide will throw up (Howard’s) ‘wall to wall Labor Governments’. Clinton followed normal Pollie political strategy like the ALP & the Libs do here. The author left out the crucial bottom line. Clinton won POTUS a 2nd time by old style triangulation

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