Been a bit busy lately, so it’s past time for a new US elections thread. Since Super Tuesday we’ve had an anticipated string of Barack Obama victories from caucuses in Nebraska, Washington and Maine and a primary in Louisiana, along with a narrow win for John McCain in Washington and probably meaningless victories for Mike Huckabee in Kansas and Louisiana. Tomorrow US time we have both parties holding primaries in Virginia, Maryland and the District of Columbia.
‘About Clinton’s 35 years of experience’
‘After graduating from Yale Law School in 1973, Clinton spent a year at the Children’s Defense Fund, her only full-time non-profit job. She worked as a law professor and on the Senate Judiciary Committee investigating Watergate.
Yet Clinton, as McClatchy notes, spent the bulk of her career in Arkansas–15 out of 35–at one of the state’s preeminent corporate law firms, representing clients like Tyson Foods. During that time she did a number of good works. But from 1986-1992 she also sat on the board of Wal-Mart, pushing gingerly for women’s rights while staying quiet as the company aggressively opposed labor unions.
As First Lady, Clinton’s major policy undertaking–healthcare reform–was a dramatic failure. Since that time, Clinton’s played it safe, diligently working to rehabilitate her image by focusing on small-bore issues.
In the Senate she reached out to conservative Republicans whenever possible, whether it be Sam Brownback on violence in video games or Robert Bennett on legislation criminalizing flag-burning. She defanged past enemies but raked up “few significant legislative accomplishments,” the New York Times reported.’
http://www.thenation.com/blogs/campaignmatters?bid=45&pid=280103
Zeitgeist again-Serbia formally protests EU Kosovo mission
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/02/17/2164756.htm?section=world
Hillary is an Operator. Most of what she does/ says is in the interests of her own advancement and power. People can see it, and are tired of it. We’ve just had 11 years of it here.
Obama is probably no saint – what politician is, apart from Our Bob of course. But he is not yet tainted with the whiff of opportunism and entitlement that the Clampetts are known for.
It is the appearance of Integrity that she cannot muster, and the thing people are clamouring for.
I am also curious about the actual power of Race in the US today. Claearly there are rednecks in the States, as there are here. But, as we have just witnessed, when a government takes the lead to challenge and repudiate racism the people come on board. The flavour of racism that the Howard/Hanson years allowed is suddenly looking like an oddity rather than the mainstream. I wonder if the same applies in the US. In which case a black man could indeed be the POTUS.
#1003 – Rudd is lily white and blonde, blue eyes? Obama ain’t.
That’s what I am wondering Finns.
Is racism as prevalent as it would or is it that the incumbent government by their lack of humanity and hawkism allow it a lot of air.
(as it would appear..)
The elite commentariat (people like you)
…or as we shall now be known as: TEC(PLY), or TECPLY for neatness, have overwhelmingly backed Obama for Democratic nomination.
Casting Clinton as the Andrew Peacock of US politics seems to upset some of the better informed people who thought she’d romp home on Feb 5th and make all of this discussion unnecessary.
But alas, the TECPLY boosted Obama, and drove many of the less intellectually equipped to vote for him.
See a pattern here? Yep folks, the ILL and the TECPLY are corrupting America, turning its youth and coloured folk away from their natural leader, Hillary Clinton, and forcing them with media mind control techniques to vote for a mirage, a chimera, a rhetorical flourish, a hologram of hope, a delusion of audacity masquerading as a leader.
It’s you, dear reader it’s PLY, (people like you), and you are going to take away the annointed saviour of the Democratic Party of the United States of America, with your hypnotic hyperbole of hope trope.
TECPLY, you should all be ashamed of yourselves! Ashamed, do you hear me…?
Dear me how has a dispute about two ideologically simialr US presidential cnadidates (a bit like Beazley vs. Rudd) become a proxy for contentions about 9/11, the Iraq war etc? Obama’s rhetoric doesn’t inspire me, I am reminded of Tony Blair and remember how so-so he was, but it’s working at the pragmatic political level. As for Adam’s point about Obama being seen as liberal, so is Hillary, all voters see Obama as very very slightly to the left of Hillary (but Republicans see her as furthest to the left and it is Republican votes the Dems need to win) but the candidate they feel ideologically cloest to is McCain (see http://polysigh.blogspot.com/2008/01/left-shift.html). In a liberal v. conservative battle the conservative will usually win, thus the Dem candidate has to campaign on policy and Bush’s legacy.
and I thought the Election was about policy & political philosophy ?
but the swiftboaters will tell the voters subtlely:
the “race” Candidate , the ‘hated’ Candidate and the “traitor” Candidate
look forward to this a clean election
1008
Geoff Robinson
Interesting set of labels, aren’t they?
But in the polls about percieved negatives, Clinton clearly has the most, and would be a turn-off for independents and disaffected Republicans (except of course for Ann Coulter! LOL).
What is happening in the Democratic race is unprecedented, and Clinton’s still in it, but her camp have shown that they were not very prepared for an ‘insurgent’, and one with a lot of appeal who could usurp her.
Told me muvver when I took ‘er to church this mornin’ that Dr. Adam Carr reckoned that me an’ a bunch of uvver Bludgers were, in ‘is distinguished opinion, “elite commentators”.
Mum sed: “That’s nice, son, I always knew you was gonna make every post a winner”.
Bless ‘er cotton socks!
As a member of the EC group don’t you just wish those bloody voters would get it right and vote for who Adam says they should instead of making up their own misguided minds.
Diogenes, kindly do not accuse me of intellectual dishonesty. I quoted the section that was relevant to the question, which was “do lemmings commit suicide?” Of course Disney faked their lemming-suicide scene. But the passage I quoted shows that they do in fact commit suicide, even if not on cue for Disney.
Okay, let’s take the case of Darfur. Genocide is being committed. The African Union has failed. The UN can’t act because of China’s Security Council veto. The EU of course does nothing despite Sarkozy’s fine promises. Russia, China and the Arab League are actively assisting Sudan. (If anyone deserves to be had up for “blood for oil” it’s China.) So, does the US intervene unliterally or not? That would mean a war with Sudan, a confrontation with the Arab League and the Muslim world generally (despite the fact that the Darfuris are Muslims), probably accidentally killing Chinese and Russian “advisors” to the Sudanese genocidists, and thus a general international crisis. Is saving a few hundred thousand lives worth all this angst? Unilateral imperialist crusader aggression – yes or no? Answers please.
Come on get real. US would never do anything that would really upset China. US is addicted to the El Cheapo Chinese goods. Can you imagine the US consumers paying $300 for a DVD player at Walmart sold for $45 at the moment.
Come on you EC, what would your beloved Obama do?
There are no permanent friendships, only permanent interest.
Rang my bro in svenska to clarify
the lemming issues
simply put though not an annual event (lemming day?)
in times of overpopulation,nuclear mishaps etc they may migrate using genetic trails
unfortunately the land/ice/snow aint where there minds told em they would be and voila bungeing for beginners
cest la vie
re your darfur example,like all conflicts ,the “real politik’ drives the agenda
not matter what the MSM etc may desire.
also somalia left the US with a less than palatable taste in many pan -african mouths-diplomacy at distance for a while yet.
do you believe the obama/rudd analogy has legs
If Obama was running against Bush, the Rudd-Howard analogy would hold up. But he will in fact be running against McCain who is the nearest the Repubs have to the anti-Bush. It’s as if the Libs had dumped Howard last year and replaced him with Petro Georgiou (only not lazy and with a brilliant war record).
Adam @ 1013 [blockquote] So, does the US intervene unliterally or not? [\blockquote] [blockquote] yes or no? Answers please. [\blockquote]
One of the great fallacies of argument – the classic False Dilemma or False Choice, the standard rhetorical trick of the neo-cons. Remember that great example by GWB, “Either you’re with us, or you’re against us.” ?
This attitude is a one way road to trouble and is a large part of the reason that the US is isolated and unable to generate any traction to solve any world problem -not that it wants to. It has no credibility in the international community. It is also why unilateral action by the US would be a disaster as Adam outlines.
Complex world problems are not usefully defined as a simple (and false) choice between two dramatic actions – eg unilateral US intervention or no unilateral intervention.
The answer lies beyod the 2 choices presented. In this case it requires first a complete change in approach by the US – to the UN, to China, to Israel and Palestine and other Islamic states. An end to arrogance and religious crusades, and the adoption of the sort of world leadership role that befits such a supposedly developed nation. Then the US can contribute to the resolution of catastrophes like Darfur.
A sweeping change in leadership style and practice as exemplified so far in Obama would be one step in the right direction.
1011
Enemy Combatant
Do you realise EC, that this upgrade from ILL to EC, brings you that wonderful conjunction of initials and nom de blog?
Quickly, you must rush out and buy a lottery ticket, because your stars are cleary aligned into some perfect configuration! LOL
And as for Obama being some kind of policy vacuum, and somehow ‘unfit’ for presidential office, well, some of collegues don’t seem to think so:
Representative David R. Obey, Democrat of Wisconsin, is chairman of the House Appropriations Committee and respected on Capitol Hill as being among the small share of lawmakers intricately familiar with the federal budget. Mr. Obey said he was more than comfortable with Mr. Obama’s grasp of substance.
“If I weren’t, I wouldn’t have endorsed him,” Mr. Obey said Saturday. “You can’t make much headway on substance until you have somebody who can break through the rancorous atmosphere, build new alliances and cut through old barriers.”
…but hey, why believe Mr Obey, he’s just been brainwashed by the EC and PLY!
1013 Adam
Adam-My argument was that lemmings (and US Democrats) do not commit mass suicide as you suggested in your post. They would die out if they did. (Perhaps Australian Democrats do though). A few might die in a squash, similar to a rock concert, but they do not act in a way to jeopardise their long term survival as a race. Therefore, the current Democrat rush to Obama is very similar to a migration as you say, but without the dire consequences for the race.
re Darfur. It would take a much wiser man than myself to adequately answer that question. A few points though:
1. Maybe the UN system is flawed with too many checks and balances esp re power of veto. It needs reforming.
2. The UN’s annual budget is the same as the Pentagon spends in a day. It really is a tiny speck internationally compared with the US.
3. The US’s annual overseas aid program has declined from 1.8% of GDP to 0.2% GDP since WWII. This means they no longer can use the carrot-and-stick approach to diplomacy which is often quite effective.
In summary, there are no good answers to a very important question.
Adam –
the answer is obvious.
Bomb them.
Or reform the UN so that it can be an effective peace-keeping force internationally.
#1020 – KR – “And as for Obama being some kind of policy vacuum” – Is not the policy vaccum that I am worried about with Obama as POTUS. It will be his reluctant or timidness to offend the “right wing” once he became POTUS that I am worried about. Obama as POTUS will not be as adventurous or daring as you ECs want him to be. Because that is how life works. Expect something, the opposite always turns up.
Don’t forget it was Nixon, yes Nixon, the ardent anti Communist, supporter of McCarthyism, that opened the road to Beijing. Let me remind you of this little episode:
“Chairman Mao wanted to meet the president. Mao and Nixon joked about their unlikely encounter, with Nixon telling the Chairman, “You’re quite aware of my sentiments with regards to Communism. I’m considered to be a rightist.” Mao responded, “Oh, I like rightists.” To which Nixon countered, “Sometimes those on the right can do things which those on the left can only talk about.”
I would think that willingness to talk to republicans should not be mistaken for weakness any more than Bush’s blind partisanship should be mistaken for strength.
The fact people are saying ‘He doesn’t want to destroy the republicans, he has no spine’ is a testament to the environment that has been created in America.
“Come on you EC, what would your beloved Obama do?”
Got me stuffed on that one , Finnigan Plural, but I’ll run it by his people next time they call and get right back to you. Trust me.
————————————————-
Meanwhile, back at the Psephs and Sports Bar, a right wing hampster, a neoconservative rodent and a leftist lemming were perched on stools, having a few quiet beers while discussing the amazing turn of events in the Seppo Primaries, when who should saunter in, nodding to all and sundry but Adam, a colourful local identity and “known” wikiologist.
Hot-to-trot for some skinny after the recent Spitsbergen plebiscite, Adam gingerly approached the furry collective.
It was the rodent’s shout, so as rodents often do, he shiftily shot through to the dunny. The hampster claimed he was “strapped for cash” and scurried towards the ATM, leaving the lemming to do the only thing a lemming could do——- he dropped off.
Look at those punters too, they’ve all been mesmerised by the MSM, hypnotised by the hologram of hope and they are putting their money on Obama:
Intrade: Obama/Clinton 73%/27%
Isn’t it maddening the way they won’t do what they are told!
1024
The Finnigans
Timid? Obama? Like when he told us that Bush is responsible for the worst US foreign policy decision in its history? Or that John McCain is just more of the same?
Oh, yeah, he’s a right shrinking violet.
#1028 – talk is cheap
1029-
Finns. You’re right.
Bomb them.
1029
The Finnigans
Ho,ho! Talk is all that happens in political campaigns!
Ah, and outflanking a frontrunner who assumed (wrongly) that being Mrs Clinton and having networked the country would just carry her to the nomination.
Talk? Talk about being naive and under-prepared more like it.
Obama has shown more than just good stage craft, he’s got together an organisation that puts her to shame. If she wasn’t Mrs Bill Clinton she’d be nowhere near the nomination, just another policy wonk who keeps telling people that she’s got experience.
Talk. Not enough. She has to win it, because Obama is not going to give it to her.
#1030 – Jen – yeah, so he will be known of the O’bomba.
Ha!
#1033 – how do you like this one? “NYT’s Keller compares Obama and Mandela”.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0208/NYTs_Keller_compares_Obama_and_Mandela.html
If this is not a personality cult gone mad, then I dont know what it is. For goodness sake, Obama has not done a single effing thing in comparison to Mandela. Mandela is a giant, Obama is a pygmy. It’s an insult to Mandela. What do you say now my EC friends?
Adam- I should add that I do not consider you to have an intellectually dishonest bone in your body. You are a scholar and a gentleman.
1034
The Finnigans
Perhaps Mr Keller is entitled to make a comparison about the style of the two men, as Bill Keller:
…now the executive editor of The New York Times — describes how he arrived in Johannesburg as bureau chief for the newspaper in 1992, just in time to witness the complete transformation of a society. The Mandela motorcade “would roll onto a barren soccer field surrounded by rickety bleachers, and the township would erupt in delirium. The throngs hung from lampposts and clung to the tops of fences. They filled the bleachers with a blaze of brightly colored sun umbrellas.”
He got to know Mandela, saw the effect he had on people, and he sees something very remarkably similar in Barack Obama.
So, Finn, your point is?
1035
Diogenes
“Adam- I should add that I do not consider you to have an intellectually dishonest bone in your body. You are a scholar and a gentleman.”
..yep, agreed, as one of the ILL, and EC PLY, (“ignorant loathing lefties”, and “elite commentariat” and “people like you”) I just could not agree more.
A true scholar and gentleman.
FRinns –
I agree with KR.
It is not about what Obama has done (no comparison with Nelson Mandela), but his capacity to unite and bring about societal change. Clearly big shoes to fill , and he may never have that kind of impact but so far he has started something that has taken all of us by surprise.
whoops Finns -no R
Couple of things about this he/she contest:
1. Claiming that his votes don’t count because they are either from young people or black people or pink striped ones is ludicrous. The voters are all Americans and are entitled to vote for whoever they think will represent them best as President. It’s pretty tacky stuff claiming he’s the ‘black candidate’, just as Clinton is not the Hispanic candidate. They both get votes from a wide enough range of people to make this stuff incipient racism.
2. The argument about who is best able to win the general election is itself a bit spurrious if the one claiming it cannot win the nomination fairly. It’s clear that this argument is now being pumped by the Clinton camp now that her lead has evaporated, but it sounds hollow if it’s really an attempt to swing Supers.
#1036 – KR – read my lips. Obama is a phenomenon, a personality cult. All talks, no substance, because he has not done anything. That is my point!!
Speaking of ‘he said’, ‘she said’, maybe we could start a little list of Zingers (mouth launched missiles) they’ve been firing off at each other. So just for amusement:
SS (She Said):
“I am in the solutions business. My opponent is in the promises business”
HS (He Said):
“In this campaign, [Clinton has] taken nearly double the amount of money from lobbyists than any Democrat or Republican running for president.That’s not being a part of the solutions business. That’s being a part of business-as-usual in Washington.”
Ah, the talk, gotta love it, eh?
1041
The Finnigans
Nup, done nuthin’.
Nuthin’ except get to be ahead of the dynastic queen of the Democratic Party in the nomination race.
Isn’t it disgraceful? Just what has he done to deserve that, eh?
Thanks for pointing that out Finn, and the lipreading really works well on the internet, eh? Amazing technology.
Kirri at 1019, missed the initial conjunction, but perhaps it’s best if we don’t play scrabble for serious money. A “registered removalist” like your self would take me to the cleaners.
OK Kids, since you’ve all been on your Sunday best behaviour, here’s today’s treatie-weeties…..
Warning: the following cartoons contain material that may be deemed offensive to sensitive Hillarophilics.
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/robertariail;_ylt=AhYdWxDGhasivNGLXV.6AjLe.sgF
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/tonyauth;_ylt=AmzHR0GMLbgeon_VIozdiM0V2r8F
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/mikeluckovich;_ylt=AgPCbDNaXGMm3.zebQNx4XtR_b4F
Need to acknowledge that experience with US Presidents is they pretty much toe the line on imperial issues, military expenditure, kowtowing to gun lobby etc. It takes a serious political change to alter that. Obama is certainly untested on this but he has also built up both supporters and rhetoric which would be a bit harder to turn around when elected. He is also less tied to the traditional business sources of funding. There could be a small chance of change away from business as usual towards actually doing some things to improve ordinary people’s lives. I think we can tell there is little chance of other candidates changing much. Equally all candidates are affected by the lobbyists influence over Congress. US is the citadel of big imperial power and not easily shifted.
1044
Enemy Combatant
EC, you’re welcome to the initials bestowed upon you by your superiors, wear them like a badge of honour! LOL
Love the cartoon, especially the last one. I can just hear Bill, “I did not have s_xual relations with that Super Delegate”!
Adam @ 1013 –
“Unilateral imperialist crusader aggression – yes or no? Answers please.”
Define ‘aggression’? IMHO? the Yanks have already earnt more than enough antipathy with the Muslim world and should stay well out of any direct action.
But I wonder how long it would take the Sudanese government to buckle if a third party or parties were to impose a naval blockade of Sudanese oil terminals. Yes, that would upset the Chinese. Too bad. They are unlikely to do much ahead of the Olympics anyway.
Yes, it would be an act of war, but one that should have few casualties.
#1045 – Words of reason. Once a great Satan, always a great Satan. No Obama can change that. He’ll be the Chief Satan.
1048 –
yes Finns, but he’ll be a new and much nicer Satan.
#1049 – Hi Jen – I got better deal for you. If McCain picks Condie Rice for the Veep. It’s game, set and match to the Repugs.
Maybe that is how the Karma meant to be. Condie will the first black, female and single to be the POTUS in 2012. Three in one, neat. Kumbaya My Lord, Kumbaya.