Three new federal poll results:
• The monthly Resolve Strategic poll from Nine Newspapers has Labor up two to 30%, the Coalition up one to 38%, the Greens down one to 12% and One Nation down one to 5%. This pollster does not provide two-party preferred, but if the 15% none-of-the-above vote is treated as a single (it includes an unlikely 12% independent vote), the result is almost exactly 50-50 based on preference flows in 2022. Both leaders are steady on approval and down a point on disapproval, Anthony Albanese to 35% and 52% and Peter Dutton to 41% and 41%, with Albanese’s lead as preferred prime minister out from 35-34 to 38-35. The poll also finds a telling 55% professing no opinion as to which party has better handled the situation in the Middle East, with 22% favouring “Peter Dutton and the Liberals” and 18% “Anthony Albanese and Labor”. It was conducted Monday to Sunday from a sample of 1606.
• The weekly Roy Morgan poll had a tie on two-party preferred after a 51-49 result to the Coalition last time, from primary votes of Labor 31.5% (up one-and-a-half), Coalition 37.5% (down half), Greens 12.5% (down one) and One Nation 5.5% (up one). Using the two-party measure based on 2022 election flows, Labor leads 52-48, out from 51.5-48.5 The poll was conducted Monday to Sunday from a sample of 1697.
• The Guardian’s routine early drop of the fortnightly Essential Research poll doesn’t include voting intention results. Stay tuned for later today on that one.
UPDATE: Essential Research’s voting intention results have Labor up three points to 32%, the Coalition down one to 34%, the Greens steady on 12%, One Nation steady on 8%, and undecided unchanged at 5%. The 2PP+ measure has Labor leading 49-47, with the balance undecided, after trailing 48-47 a fortnight ago. Further questions find fully 40% saying “our political system needs fundamental change”, compared with 48% who think it “needs some reform but is fundamentally sound” and only 12% who think it is “working well”. A semi-regular question on Israel’s military action in Gaza records, for some reason, an eight-point rise in “unsure” since August to 32%: 32% favour Israel’s permanent withdrawal, down seven, 18% a temporary ceasefire, down three, and 19% consider Israel’s actions justified, up two. The poll was conducted Wednesday to Sunday from a sample of 1139.
Earlier today I saw that Integrity Rex asserted that Albo did not have the mettle to introduce price control and cap rents. A small reminder – a referendum would be required to amend section 51 of the Constitution to give a Federal Government that power. Such a referendum was held in 1973. Despite polls taken by various newspapers suggesting 70% in favour, the referendum was defeated in all states with the national figures being 56.19% opposed.
Just like the early polls favoured the Yes proposal in 2023, the lack of bipartisan support sunk the referendum in 1973 as it did in 2023.
If such a referendum was proposed the LNP would not be able to resist opposing it to get the “win”. The same fate would be inflicted if a proposition to alter the capital gains tax or to eliminate or modify negative gearing rules.
The problem is reality rules.
The Mouth Almighty waters down his demands?
What sort of pathetic demander would sell his constituents down the drain like that?
Hezbollah never killed any French peacekeepers anywhere, anytime.
Do you conced that, or are you going down swinging?
Badthinkersays:
Tuesday, October 8, 2024 at 1:55 pm
Goll:
… after having wiped out the indigenous Native American, their homelands, their culture …
Their ‘culture’ was torturing and killing.
Aztecs.
Heard of them?
======================================================================
There were not too many Aztecs in the area covered by the United States.
But, as historically accurate as anything else you write I guess.
Already picked up elsewhere.
Shock! Horror! Neolithic Americans sacrificed people to appease their gods! Here’s some
shocking news for you bozo, Neolithic Europeans did the exact same thing SHOCK! HORROR!
Greens being dickheads again:
Over in Senate question time, the Greens have pulled out placards reading “sanctions now” after criticising the Albanese government’s response to the conflict in Gaza.
The Greens senator, Mehreen Faruqi, was asking the foreign affairs minister, Penny Wong, about the government’s response when her former colleague, Lidia Thorpe, suddenly walked into the chamber chanting “free Palestine”.
The Senate president, Sue Lines, instructed Thorpe to take her seat and be quiet or leave. Thorpe chose to leave the chamber.
Faruqi continued with her supplementary questions, asking: “The ICJ has made clear that Israel’s occupation of Palestine is unlawful. Will you sanction Israel for its illegal actions and occupation?”
All 11 Greens senators simultaneously pulled out “sanctions now” posters. Lines ordered the senators to put away the slogans.
Lines said:
That was a disgraceful display, which every single senator who raised the placard knows is a contravention of the standing orders … Senator Faruqi, you are not in a debate with me. You either remain orderly in this chamber or you leave.”
Faruqi chose to leave.
The Coalition’s senators looked up to the press gallery’s seats, smiling, to see who was watching.
The finance minister, Katy Gallagher, shouted toward the crossbench “you got the photo you wanted, well done”.
Hi davo:
Yeah, neolithic people were doin’a all sortsa wacky stuff 5,000 yerars ago, if you can believe the archaeologists.
Plains Indians were torturing captives to death 150 years ago and lived in a state of constant war.
Yeah, the Plains Indians originated in Mexico, killed the previous inhabitants.
British Isles gave us Common Law and Property Rights.
Europe is utterly soaked in blood, 1/4 to 1/3 the population died i the Thirty Years War
It’s more than a little amusing to me that contemporary champions for the Anglo Saxon race are no doubt some of the dumbest Anglo Saxons ever produced. 🙂
Dave
People who go on about their heritage a lot often lack any accomplishments of their own 🙂
Socratessays:
Tuesday, October 8, 2024 at 2:16 pm
The first US colonies were varied in origin.
Canada and northern States like Vermont were mainly French.
New England was mainly British. (Scots and English)
New York was mainly Dutch. (Remember the Schulyer sisters!)
Pennsylvania was mainly German.
Southern States were 50/50 English and slaves.
Florida started out a Spanish colony.
=============================================
Also, New York was originally called New Amsterdam;
Alaska was Russian and Louisiana was French.
California, Nevada, Texas, Utah, New Mexico, most of Arizona and Colorado and parts of Wyoming, Oklahoma and Kansas were originally Mexican and heavily Spanish/Native ethnicity.
I am sure there are other examples.
Granny Annysays:
Tuesday, October 8, 2024 at 12:57 pm
Arky at 1235, it wasn’t intentional to leave out the Arab reaction to the creation of modern Israel.
That reaction is understandable I think. It is probably little different to the reaction of some Australian Indigenous people to having white settlement foisted upon them, except that the Israelis had equivalent weapons to those of their adversarys.
————————
There’s big differences between the experience of Australian Indigenous people and the Israel/Palestinas because that part of the middle east has a long history of being ruled by others and there’s been times when the area has been made up by difference city states.
Gaza has been clear of Israel settlements for some time but it’s a difference story in the West Bank and there’s been a Jewish population in the area for thousands of years so they are not occupiers in the same way Indigenous people might see the world but this is where it becomes more complicated because there’s differences between Gaza the West Bank and other places but people say hand it back to the original owners but the original owner of Gaza was Egypt.
steve davis says:
Tuesday, October 8, 2024 at 2:42 pm
Greens being dickheads again:
Over in Senate question time, the Greens have pulled out placards reading “sanctions now” after criticising the Albanese government’s response to the conflict in Gaza.
The Greens senator, Mehreen Faruqi, was asking the foreign affairs minister, Penny Wong, about the government’s response when her former colleague, Lidia Thorpe, suddenly walked into the chamber chanting “free Palestine”.
The Senate president, Sue Lines, instructed Thorpe to take her seat and be quiet or leave. Thorpe chose to leave the chamber.
Faruqi continued with her supplementary questions, asking: “The ICJ has made clear that Israel’s occupation of Palestine is unlawful. Will you sanction Israel for its illegal actions and occupation?”
All 11 Greens senators simultaneously pulled out “sanctions now” posters. Lines ordered the senators to put away the slogans.
Lines said:
That was a disgraceful display, which every single senator who raised the placard knows is a contravention of the standing orders … Senator Faruqi, you are not in a debate with me. You either remain orderly in this chamber or you leave.”
Faruqi chose to leave.
The Coalition’s senators looked up to the press gallery’s seats, smiling, to see who was watching.
The finance minister, Katy Gallagher, shouted toward the crossbench “you got the photo you wanted, well done”.
_______________________________________
The Greens: Dragging Australia into another middle east war… would make a very meme-worthy image of the protest
Saxons were at one point migrant tribes.
Boerwar says:
Tuesday, October 8, 2024 at 2:23 pm
If Israel wanted to carry out a genocide of the Palestinians it would have by now. It hasn’t and it has no intent of doing so. Making the claim that Israel has genocidal intent or is carrying out genocide is a lie.
The Australian govt and its citizens need to be truely neutral re their ME responses and condemnations, rather than biased to Netanyahu.
e.g.w. @ #160 Tuesday, October 8th, 2024 – 2:56 pm
You have ignored the Ulster-Scots contribution. 17 of 44 Presidents have Plantation roots – I guess colonisation came easily to them.
Fun facts:
One of Caesar’s Causa Belli used to justify the Gallic Holocaust was the threat posed to civilisation from the Druidic practices of human sacrifice. … and yet … the last recorded instance of the Roman State underatking in a human sacrifice only dates from approximately 50 years prior to Caesar in 114 BCE, when pairs of Greeks and Gauls were buried alive in the Forum Boarium (the Roman meat market). …
I am sure there are other examples.
Sure, if you twist facts hard enough you can ‘prove’ any thing, and if the Queen had balls she’d be the King, but the reality remains that the people of the British Isles built America.
Yeah, Lou Thesz was a great wrestler, but if America hadn’t been built he woulda been the best wrestler in a 5 mile radius of some Hungarian collection of tents and barns.
As Muhammad Ali opined when he saw a sea of screaming fans in the Congo
“I’m sure glad my great granpappy got on that boat”
[look it up]
A list of prominent American Ulster-Scots which Wiki calls Scotch-Irish
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scotch-Irish_Americans
Yes Earlwood but I’m sure it was done far more tastefully.
New Covid strain now in Australia called XEC.
New booster to fight this strain and it’s family out soon.
“If Israel wanted to carry out a genocide of the Palestinians it would have by now. It hasn’t and it has no intent of doing so. Making the claim that Israel has genocidal intent or is carrying out genocide is a lie.”
Source: trust me bro
The Angles should put land rights claims against the Saxons and Normans.
EGW
Thanks and good point about the Spanish/Mexican influence in the South-WEst and Western States. I was only thinking about the States and colonies in the Union.
Anyway I think the overall point is clear. I cannot identify any point in US / Colonial American history when the country was “predominantly Anglo-Saxon”. That is fiction.
OC
Definitely the English squatocracy formed the majority of the wealthy colonists early and later a lot of the early presidents. I was just pointing out that they were never the majority of the population.
Whereas Australia was much more predominantly Anglo-Saxon up to the 1950s. Then things changed rapidly once White Australia was gone.
ABC interviewing people who have been evacuated from Lebanon. Failed to ask why they ignored all the warnings.
Fubar….
Even those sympathetic to the Israeli cause have conceded 20,000 plus civilian dead in Gaza, many as a result of IDF actions, cannot be glossed over a defensive action to protect the state of Israel.
I would suspect your definition of these deaths is ‘collateral damage’ though in the eyes of many others, meaningless slaughter of innocent people.
There is no moral high ground for you on this one…..
Maybe not “genocide” but sure as hell has not done the reputation of Israel much good in the short to medium term.
I sense Israel could well become the North Korea of the Middle East.
Myth makers abound.
The BOP in the current Israeli Government is held by parties whose leaders and members have very clearly expressed various elements of genocidal intent.
The Israeli intention to push the entire population of Gaza into Egypt ran into a major problem: it was not the lack of willingness on the part of the Israel Government.
It was that Egypt refused to fall in line with Israeli intentions.
ABC interviewing people who have been evacuated from Lebanon. Failed to ask why they ignored all the warnings.
Fair suck!
Many of them have been collecting Australian pensions in Lebanon so long, they’ve forgotten how to speak English.
Tricot says:
Tuesday, October 8, 2024 at 3:19 pm
The Palestinians were and are given multiple warnings via multiple means of communication to leave areas being targeted. Try hat complies with the law of war.
The only time that doesn’t happen when very high value targets that are rarely identified are targeted.
Over 20,000 French civilians died from Allied action in the liberation of France. Was that a war crime? Excessive?
https://www.theguardian.com/profile/first-dog-on-the-moon
‘FUBAR says:
Tuesday, October 8, 2024 at 3:28 pm
Tricot says:
Tuesday, October 8, 2024 at 3:19 pm
The Palestinians were and are given multiple warnings via multiple means of communication to leave areas being targeted. Try hat complies with the law of war.
The only time that doesn’t happen when very high value targets that are rarely identified are targeted.
Over 20,000 French civilians died from Allied action in the liberation of France. Was that a war crime? Excessive?’
===================
Was it Bomber Harris who opined that he would have been hung as a war criminal had the Allies lost the war?
First Dag on the Moon specializes in sleazy howling, yipping and yapping at Labor.
Needs worming to help him stop scratching his arse.
Further to Tricot’s comments, international law clearly recognises a principle of proportionality in acts of self-defence.
So if a Philippine fishing vessel bumps into a Chinese Coast Guard ship in the South China Sea, it is not OK for China to nuke Manila in response. That would not be proportionate and not “self-defence”.
Likewise killing 1200 Israelis, half of whom were civilians, does not justify killing 40.000+ Gaza civilians in return. The response is not proportionate and hence not self-defence.
https://www.open.edu/openlearn/society-politics-law/the-use-force-international-law/content-section-1.3.1
“First Dag on the Moon specializes in sleazy howling, yipping and yapping at Labor.
Needs worming to help him stop scratching his arse.”
Boerwar, First Dog is the conscience of this nation.
FUBAR
“Over 20,000 French civilians died from Allied action in the liberation of France. Was that a war crime? Excessive?’”
————————————–
The Red Cross certainly thought it was a war crime.
https://international-review.icrc.org/sites/default/files/irrc_859_2.pdf
FUBAR I don’t know what training you got in military ethics in your service, but I think you ought to get your money back. It wasn’t very good.
NSW Konstas 100no versus the might of SA.
Give him the green cap forthwith.
Regardless of the entertaining excursion into which culture did what where in the Americas and the British Isles, the original fuckwittery from badthinker which started it all was “Import the 3rd World, become the 3rd World”. Don’t want to let him get away with that.
Re: the Greens’ backdown on housing, I reckon they might have seen the polls (and conducted some internal polling/focus groups, like with the Voice) and discovered to their horror that even their own voters aren’t on-side with the games they’ve been playing and want them to be constructive and get on with it. Imagine that.
First Dog thinks he is the conscience of this nation.
There, fixed it. 😐
FUBAR why would I apply whatever logic you’re implying to Russian strikes in Ukraine?
They’re at war, they’re probably aiming at military targets because they are the most important.
Labor should bring scorecards into the Senate the next time The Greens pull another stunt.
🙂
Kage @ #151 Tuesday, October 8th, 2024 – 2:26 pm
Do you honestly think facts matter to Integrity? Or The Greens for that matter?
More interesting stuff from Peter V’Landys.
The proposed Perth/North Sydney team is dead and V’Landys will now speak with the WA government directly about a team. He might consider a deal backed by the government for $20-30 M .
You have to admire his determination.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/the-western-bears-bid-is-dead-nrl-severs-ties-with-consortium-after-low-ball-proposal-20241008-p5kgql.html
@Socrates:
“The Red Cross certainly thought it was a war crime.
https://international-review.icrc.org/sites/default/files/irrc_859_2.pdf
FUBAR I don’t know what training you got in military ethics in your service, but I think you ought to get your money back. It wasn’t very good.”
That’s a fascinating article (I did study international law, after all) but I feel bound to point out a few things:
– That’s a journal article by one guy. It’s not “The Red Cross says this”.
– It’s an interesting discussion of the morals, ethics and history of aerial bombing of cities in war with a particular focus on the Allied bombing of Nazi Germany, BUT
– I can’t for the life of me see a bit where he says he thinks it was a war crime.
In fact, the article concludes:
” As good liberals, we might plausibly argue that our statesmen and pilots could have killed
fewer babies or non-combatants, and probably that is where most of us are
left after reading his book. Yet at the end I am nevertheless forced to confront
inconsistencies and beliefs that I would rather avoid. Jus in bello remains at
best an asymptotic guideline, never fully to be achieved, often to be hypocritically violated. But what other choice do we have?”
In other words, acknowledging that the Allies could probably have killed less civilians (with benefit of hindsight), but how do you actually draw the line?
He also says: ” I personally think that the bombing can be credited with another success: the demonstrated hopelessness of the Nazi defence had something to do
with the fact that after World War II there was no real revanchist movement,
no defiant nationalism.”
I wouldn’t have really thought of that line of debate.
Usually the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagosaki is used for this kind of debate in history classes. I wrote about it myself back at school. But the Allied bombing of Dresden etc is in a similar vein. There was some element of disrupting military industry to it. But also a certain amount of “we will bomb you into submission, because stretching out the war will cost even more lives and there’s no guarantee we still don’t end right back here bombing the shit out of you to end it anyway”.
I’ve generally gone with the side that accepts the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, horrific as it was, was justified in both immediately ending the war and also giving the world an object lesson in the horrors of nuclear war before nuclear bombs got very big. A nuclear exchange with the kind of nukes that the US and USSR had by the 60s would have been infinitely fucking worse; I have to credit the WW2 nukings with persuading nuclear-armed powers for the next many decades to not unleash the nukes again.
As for Dresden, I agree with this author – I have no doubt the Allies could have accomplished the same goal with some reduced civilian casualties, but I couldn’t possibly set a bright line in the sand and say this many civilian casualties is proportionate and this many is not.
As the author also alludes to, all of this stems from the change in warfare after the classical rules of warfare were broken by partisans and guerillas who based themselves among civilians, and latterly by the intermingling of military and civilian infrastructure in so many cities.
C@tmommasays:
Tuesday, October 8, 2024 at 4:11 pm
Labor should bring scorecards into the Senate the next time The Greens pull another stunt.
___________________________
Don’t forget a Gong too!
Hmm, I forgot about a gong! 😆
BW: “The BOP in the current Israeli Government is held by parties whose leaders and members have very clearly expressed various elements of genocidal intent.”
——————————————————————————–
The BOP in Australian Parliaments has sometimes been held by parties or independents who have some pretty out there views. Doesn’t mean those views represent the policy of the government of the day.
BTW, I note that Netanyahu is currently doing all that he can to rid himself of the yoke of the far right politicians with the BOP. He has managed to get Gideon Saar onto his team. If he can get a few more, he can discard the loonies from his government: something he needs to do in order to have any hope of retaining government at the next election.
Boer, I think you are laying your bothesidesism on far with a trowel. Wicked though Netanyahu might be, you can’t really equate him to the likes of Hassan Nasrallah or the current Iranian regime (which is desperately trying to develop nukes that I assume it intends to launch immediately at Israel).
Further to Kage’s post @ 2.26pm we see that the PM can see clearly what The Greens are up to:
PM urges Greens to vote for help to buy as Chandler-Mather says Greens are ‘ready to negotiate’ on housing
Max Chandler Mather is on his feet:
‘The Greens will work with Labor to cap rents, phase out negative gearing and invest the savings in a mass build of public housing. We don’t expect to get everything. We are ready to negotiate. But you have offered nothing.
For the sake of the single mums, who are one rent increase away from eviction, the families sleeping in their cars, the renters locked out of home ownership by negative gearing and the capital gains discount – will you work with the Greens to negotiate a plan to help the millions of people your Government is leaving behind?’
Albanese uses a lower, flatter pitch (the ‘being very serious’ voice) to answer this one:
‘I’ll make three points to the member for Griffiths. The first is that we won’t be doing measures which aren’t part of our policy.
And in the case of help to buy, all we’re asking for is the Greens political party to vote for something that was their policy.
That’s the first point that I would make. Secondly is that some of the proposals that he just went through, the shopping list, including the idea that the commonwealth is in a position to freeze rents – he knows, I know, and everyone in this chamber knows, simply can’t be done. It’s not within the commonwealth’s power.
He knows that that is the case and he’s being disingenuous when he puts that forward.
Thirdly, there’s legislation before the parliament at the moment before the Senate, help to buy. Vote for it. Vote for more homes. And it goes through. There are enough crossbench votes to ensure that it happens.
I think that the Liberal party and the National party should vote for it as well. It’s beyond my comprehension why any political party would intervene to support blocking 40,000 people from home ownership’.
The answer to your question, PM, is that they block because they know it would help, not only potential homeowners but the Labor government’s fortunes. Just like Trump telling the Republicans to block the Border Bill.
FUBARsays:
Tuesday, October 8, 2024 at 3:12 pm
says:
Tuesday, October 8, 2024 at 3:01 pm
Saxons were at one point migrant tribes.
The Angles should put land rights claims against the Saxons and Normans.
Vikings, Scots, Picts and Celts want in too.
Gauls have lodged an expression of interest.
Trying to find some Romans to assess their position, but hard to find.
Oh, and don’t leave out the Jutes or there really will be trouble!
‘Eddy says:
Tuesday, October 8, 2024 at 3:48 pm
“First Dag on the Moon specializes in sleazy howling, yipping and yapping at Labor.
Needs worming to help him stop scratching his arse.”
Boerwar, First Dog is the conscience of this nation.’
====================
Meh. Not even remotely funny. Puerile Greens propagandist. Needs worming.
Re the ethics of what Israel is doing.
I haven’t studied international law, but it seems to me that those who decry Israel’s attacks as war crimes are effectively saying that, if a belligerent in any war chooses to use innocent civilians as human shields, then they should consequently be immune from any sort of counter attack and should be permitted to continue attacking innocent civilians on the other side with impunity.
If that’s an accurate interpretation of the international law then (as I’ve long suspected), international law is a load of crap.