Monday miscellany: seat entitlements, Voice and China polling, by-election latest (open thread)

Confirmation that New South Wales and Victoria will each lose a lower house seat, with Western Australia to gain one.

I don’t believe there will be any voting intention polling this week, apart from the usual Roy Morgan – and if you’re really desperate, Kevin Bonham has discovered a trove of its federal polling in a dark corner of its website. Other than that, there’s the following:

• The regular mid-term calculation of population-based state and territory seat entitlements for the House of Representatives was conducted last week, and it confirmed what anyone with a calculator could have worked out in advance, namely that New South Wales and Victoria will each lose a seat, Western Australia will gain one, and the size of the chamber will go from 151 to 150 (assuming the government doesn’t go the nuclear option of seeking to increase the size of parliament, which is under active consideration by the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters). Antony Green has detailed blog posts on the looming redistributions for New South Wales, suggesting Sydney’s North Shore as the area most likely to have a seat abolished), Victoria, which is harder to call. Western Australia’s existing fifteen seats all have similar current enrolments, making it difficult to identify exactly where the sixteenth will be created, except that it is likely to be in an outer suburban growth area.

Michael McKenna of The Australian reports that Queensland Senator Gerard Rennick, who is appealing his recent Liberal National Party preselection defeat, has offered legal advice that Peter Dutton was wrongly told by party headquarters that he could not vote unless he attended the ballot, where other party notables were allowed to cast votes in absentia. Rennick lost the final round of the ballot to party treasurer Stuart Fraser by 131 votes to 128. The party’s disputes committee is likely to make a recommendation this week as to whether the preselection should be held again, which a party source is quoted describing as a “real possibility”.

Phillip Coorey of the Financial Review reports that a comprehensive internal poll conducted by Labor earlier this month from a sample of 14,300 found 48% in favour of an Indigenous Voice and 47% opposed, with yes leading in Victoria, South Australia and Tasmania. Further, yes voters were more likely to be firmly resolved in their choice, with 40% saying they would definitely vote yes compared with 30% for a definite no.

• A survey encompassing 24 countries by the Pew Research Centre found Australia tying with Japan for having the least favourable attitudes towards China, with 87% expressing an unfavourable view.

• Labor has formally decided against fielding a candidate in Victoria’s Warrandyte by-election on August 26. The three official nominees thus far are Liberal candidate Nicole Werner, Greg Cheesman of the Freedom Party and Cary De Wit of the Democratic Labour Party. Endorsed Greens candidate Tomas Lightbody’s paperwork is evidently still on its way.

• In other by-election news, I can offer the following contribution to the debate as to how Labor in Western Australia should feel about the result in Rockingham on Saturday: they scored 67.6% of the two-party preferred vote in ordinary election day booths, which was hardly different from their 68.8% in the corresponding booths at last year’s federal election. This means Labor almost matched a result it achieved in the context of an election where the statewide two-party result was 55-45 in its favour.

Author: William Bowe

William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, has existed in one form or another since 2004, and is one of the most heavily trafficked websites on Australian politics.

2,539 comments on “Monday miscellany: seat entitlements, Voice and China polling, by-election latest (open thread)”

Comments Page 1 of 51
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  1. Anthony Albanese and Peter Dutton have set up a political fight over transitioning more than 300,000 long-term jobless ­Australians off welfare as historically low unemployment slashes JobSeeker numbers to pre-­pandemic levels.
    The Opposition Leader on Monday will commit to scrapping Labor’s $40-a-fortnight increase to the JobSeeker rate and instead allow welfare recipients to pocket up to $300 in earnings without being booted off the payment.
    The Coalition will seek to amend the government’s Strengthening the Safety Net bill in the Senate this week, reversing the JobSeeker hike announced in the May federal budget and doubling income-free thresholds for welfare recipients by $150-a-­fortnight.
    Analysis of Department of ­Social Services data reveals that about 100,000 jobless Australians have moved off payments since May last year, lowering the overall number of JobSeeker and Youth Allowance (other) recipients to 881,960 at the end of June.
    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=TAWEB_WRE170_a&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theaustralian.com.au%2Fnation%2Fpolitics%2Falbanese-dutton-declare-war-over-longterm-jobless%2Fnews-story%2F8a9a4cbbfab0ab962a14b76d719bae69&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21=dynamic-low-control-score&V21spcbehaviour=append

  2. “The cement mixer vomited out the grayish liquid, which made a noise as it flowed noisily into the water wells, clogging them. Standing there were the soldiers who served as guards, the Civil Administration employees who devised this evil plan, the laborers who carried it out and the peasants who saw their sustenance snuffed out for eternity.

    The soldiers tried to disperse them, as one might shoo stray dogs. The concrete continued to pour out and the people from the Civil Administration verified that it covered everything. Soon, all three wells were sealed. It happened last Wednesday, south of Hebron, near the Fawwar refugee camp, and it was the work of the devil, one of the more diabolical deeds of the occupation – and the competition is fierce.”

    https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-07-30/ty-article-opinion/.premium/we-even-destroy-their-water-wells/00000189-a31f-d00f-a7db-b39f5f280000

  3. The smart thing for Labor to do would be to lift the base rate of JobSeeker AND allow people on the benefit to earn more per fortnight.

    With all the IR protections that regular workers have.

  4. “Final day will define era of Bazball against Australia’s Test orthodoxy”
    My word there is some crap coming from English sports journos. I couldn’t get past the headline.

    If this series tells us anything, it already has regardless of the final day – that both have a place and it’s great when they do.

  5. Good morning Dawn Patrollers

    “Dutton may face questions, but no royal commission can fix cruelty. That’s up to us”, writes Sean Kelly.
    https://www.smh.com.au/national/dutton-may-face-questions-but-no-royal-commission-can-fix-cruelty-that-s-up-to-us-20230730-p5dsbr.html
    Angus Dalton explains how NineFax’s “Home Truths” investigation laid out, among other things, how overseas criminals make a mockery of our borders and how the government apparently failed to do anything about suspect payments to Pacific politicians.
    https://www.theage.com.au/cbd/home-affairs-department-awarded-a-for-spin-and-toadie-rebecchi-memes-20230730-p5dsef.html
    Anthony Albanese and Peter Dutton have set up a political fight over transitioning more than 300,000 long-term jobless ­Australians off welfare as historically low unemployment slashes JobSeeker numbers to pre-­pandemic levels. Geoff Chambers tells us that today Ditton will commit to scrapping Labor’s $40-a-fortnight increase to the JobSeeker rate and instead allow welfare recipients to pocket up to $300 in earnings without being booted off the payment.
    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/albanese-dutton-declare-war-over-longterm-jobless/news-story/8a9a4cbbfab0ab962a14b76d719bae69?amp
    The Reserve Bank could drive the economy into a recession if it delivers another interest rate rise this week, with warnings that cash-pressed renters and home buyers are already on the brink of extreme financial pain, says Shane Wright.
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/recession-risk-as-rba-weighs-inflation-busting-interest-rate-rise-20230728-p5drxn.html
    Whatever decision the Reserve Bank board makes about interest rates at its meeting tomorrow morning – departing governor Dr Philip Lowe’s second-last – the stronger case is for no increase. Indeed, Ross Gittins agrees with those business economists saying we’ve probably had too many increases already.
    https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/another-rise-in-interest-rates-we-ve-probably-had-enough-already-20230730-p5dsc4.html
    Shane Wright looks at the effects of the downward slide of the use of cash.
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/the-looming-end-of-cash-will-fuel-conspiracy-theories-and-hoarding-20230721-p5dqa0.html
    Victorian Labor is bracing for tough criticism over integrity issues, with former anti-corruption chief Robert Redlich scheduled to speak publicly today for the first time since he left the job in December, writes Royce Miller.
    https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/government-braces-for-serve-from-former-anti-corruption-chief-20230730-p5dsdf.html
    According to Max Maddison, Chris Minns has flagged a potential ban for new development on the Hawkesbury-Nepean floodplain, saying the ultimate cost to threatened communities and the taxpayer meant preventing building was a far better option.
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/premier-flags-potential-ban-on-floodplain-development-20230730-p5dse9.html
    There’s been a 900 per cent increase in the number of residents on embedded networks as developers allow energy companies to co-invest in infrastructure in exchange for gas, electricity and hot water contracts. How bad is this!!!
    https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/apartments-locked-into-higher-power-bills-after-developers-partner-with-retailers-20230720-p5dpvr.html
    Mike Foley tells us that independent senator David Pocock has sprung a test of the Albanese government’s climate action convictions by forcing it to reject or support a proposed new law that would compel the government to ban new fossil fuel projects to prevent harm to current and future generations of children.
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/pocock-wants-veto-for-new-coal-mines-to-consider-harm-to-future-children-20230727-p5drtz.html
    Following the crash of the ADF’s helicopter, Mich Ryan tells us that ni preparing for future warfare, there are no risk-free approaches.
    https://www.smh.com.au/national/in-preparing-for-future-warfare-there-are-no-risk-free-approaches-20230730-p5dsbp.html
    In June, Australia’s assembled environment ministers decided to make packaging recycling guidelines mandatory, which was described by the industry as “historic”, and a “watershed moment”. Alan Kohler describes it as well overdue and about time. The so-called Australian Packaging Covenant has been in place for 24 years with its voluntary guidelines, and as Craig Reucassel is demonstrating in the ABC’s War on Waste series, nothing much has happened.
    https://thenewdaily.com.au/opinion/2023/07/31/recycling-climate-crisis-plastic-kohler/
    Perry Duffin reports that a Bondi executive told police he was ensnared by the “tentacles” of China’s spy agency but only fed lies and open-source information to his recruiters during cafe meetings in China’s busiest city.
    https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/bondi-man-allegedly-ensnared-by-tentacles-of-chinese-spies-court-told-20230726-p5drbc.html
    Ganjar Pranowo, the civilian administrator, corruption fighter, fitness freak and sometime porn connoisseur, has some high ideals. Duncan Graham went for a walk with the leading candidate for President of Indonesia.
    https://michaelwest.com.au/ganjar-interview-indonesias-next-president-will-never-dye-but-wants-closer-ties-with-australia/
    The far right don’t need to win elections to spread their malign ideas, posits Kenan Malik who puts out plenty of examples.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/30/far-right-shape-politics-spanish-elections
    Donald Trump’s campaign for president is a far cry from his victorious run for the White House in 2016, his fellow Republican and New Hampshire governor Chris Sununu said yesterday, warning the party faithful that it would be a “rerun of a soap opera”.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jul/30/republican-criticizes-trump-2024-campaign
    Will Israel escape civil war? Even if it does, it will surely lose its soul, opines Dahlia Scheindlin who says the new law suffocating judicial independence will bring autocratic rule to Israeli citizens as well as Palestinians.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2023/jul/30/will-israel-escape-civil-war-even-if-it-does-it-will-surely-lose-its-soul

    Cartoon Corner

    Alan Moir

    David Rowe

    Peter Broelman

    Badiucao

    Jim Pavlidis

    Leak

    From the US



  6. C@

    ?If you’re on the dole and you’re working, of course you have all the IR protections any other worker has.

    Indeed, the extension of these to ‘work for the dole’ situations (which are different) ironically made it very hard for volunteer organisations to provide ‘work for the dole’.

  7. This is the only good news about Voice polling lately.

    “yes voters were more likely to be firmly resolved in their choice, with 40% saying they would definitely vote yes compared with 30% for a definite no”

    About 40% didn’t have an opinion/preference 12 months ago. The Hell No crowd picked up a lot of them with lies and confusion. There’s still a chance for Yes to win this, but they need to mobilise like it means something.

  8. C@tmomma says:
    Monday, July 31, 2023 at 6:15 am
    I’m not happy that the Chief of Army has said that the Taipans have to keep flying. :/
    ————-

    C@T

    I’m very unhappy. I understand the investigation on the March 2023 ditching isn’t yet complete and now another has gone down with fatal results and CA is talking about continuing their life through 2024, absolutely ludicrous imo.
    Spoke to son last night and there’s understandable angst over this.

    All 6 AVN Regiment staff were evacuated from Proserpine immediately and 5AVN Staff are being sent down from Townsville to replace them. MRH-90s should not fly again until both incidents investigations have been completed at the very least.

  9. The powerbroking Greens are set to oppose a piddly tax on the gas industry in the Senate. Nick McKim says the Albanese government’s proposed $2.4 billion tax is “not good enough” and shows “how much power the gas cartel wields over a compliant Labor Party”. It’s a 90% cap on the deductions big gas can offset under the PRRT, as The Australian explains, but new documents show Treasury wanted a more lucrative model that would tax the gas further along when its value was higher. The war-profiteering industry, as the AFR reported, stomped its feet and pouted, so the $2.4 billion over four years model was announced in the budget. Reader, it’s peanuts any way you look at it — $600 million a year from an industry that was valued at $93 billion last year, or as McKim put it earlier this year via Crikey: “Labor is raising more from student debt than gas giants.”

  10. A suicide bomber blew himself up at a political rally in a former stronghold of militants in northwest Pakistan bordering Afghanistan on Sunday, killing at least 44 people and wounding nearly 200 in an attack that a senior leader said was meant to weaken Pakistani Islamists.
    The Bajur district near the Afghan border was a stronghold of the Pakistani Taliban — a close ally of Afghanistan’s Taliban government — before the Pakistani army drove the militants out of the area. Supporters of hardline Pakistani cleric and political party leader Maulana Fazlur Rehman, whose Jamiat Ulema Islam generally supports regional Islamists, were meeting in Bajur in a hall close to a market outside the district capital. Party officials said Rehman was not at the rally but organizers added tents because so many supporters showed up, and party volunteers with batons were helping control the crowd.

  11. [zoomstersays:
    Monday, July 31, 2023 at 7:43 am
    So the Greens solution is not to tax them at all?]

    No, that’s essentially Labor’s intention.

    The Teal and Greens want to tax them more but Labor and Liberal are standing in the way.

    But you know all this.

  12. Thanks for the dawn patrol BK. Some funny toons from the US for a change.

    This applies to the left as well: “The far right don’t need to win elections to spread their ideas”.

    A couple of current Australian examples: there’s a real debate around renters at the moment, sparked partly by the Greens. Also David Pocock has just said the government needs to acknowledge a duty of care WRT the climate crisis, and factor in climate impacts when considering carbon extraction projects. Sounds like a “climate trigger” to me.

  13. Ukraine has publicly unveiled its new sea drone for the first time as it seeks to limit the Russian fleet’s operations in the Black Sea, CNN reported. The outlet got an exclusive look at the new naval drone, which is designed to attack ships in Russia’s Black Sea Fleet. It packs hundreds of pounds of explosives and can hit targets 500 miles away, the report said.
    The Ukrainian-designed and manufactured drone is remotely controlled and can also be used for reconnaissance and surveillance missions, among other things, the report says. A drone pilot codenamed “Shark” told CNN that the drone was simple to operate and had been successful in stifling the Russian Navy’s movements.
    https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-unveiled-new-sea-drone-black-sea-wipe-out-russia-2023-7?amp

  14. zoomster says:
    Monday, July 31, 2023 at 7:43 am
    So the Greens solution is not to tax them at all?

    ________________

    In contrast to opposing HAFF, The Greens are likely on firmer ground should they oppose light touch taxation of gas. Both in terms of the topic of the legislation (environment v housing i.e. traditional ground), and the effect of blocking (tax income v housing supply).

  15. Zoomster, if Labor did what Bernie Fraser suggested last year, they could have scored a $26 billion windfall from just four months of gas industry super-profits.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/grogonomics/2022/nov/14/how-much-more-revenue-would-the-australian-government-have-if-it-taxed-gas-companies-properly

    The fossil fuel industry is making so much money, they don’t need to borrow cash to open new mega-projects.

  16. I’m sure Griff even agrees with the Greens that more than $500M/yr should be spent on social/affordable housing and a rent cap introduced.

  17. Morning all. Thanks for the roundup BK. Dutton has chosen a predictable yet pointless hill to die on. No wonder the LNP prefer to just get Dutton to oppose stuff. He has no new ideas.

    “ The Opposition Leader on Monday will commit to scrapping Labor’s $40-a-fortnight increase to the JobSeeker rate and instead allow welfare recipients to pocket up to $300 in earnings without being booted off the payment.”

    If the last ten years has proven anything, it is the meanness and pointlessness of constantly cutting welfare spending.

    Firstly, it doesn’t save much money. Other areas of spending like health and retirement benefits are larger and more important to getting the budget in black. Labor got the budget back into surplus by cutting Liberal pork barreling, while raising welfare payments.

    Second, it harms the economy. This is all part of the downward pressure on incomes for the low skilled. Less wages and income means less consumer spending. Meanwhile people reduced to poverty can’t afford to retrain, and stay trapped on welfare.

    Third, it is cruel. It makes the poorest in our society suffer. Nobody lives comfortably “bludging” off Jobseeker. Most can’t afford rent and food, never mind luxuries. This is Robodebt thinking all over again.

  18. Rex

    Of course I do. Which is why I don’t want them not taxed at all.

    I’d expect, however, that the Greens will be irrelevant in this case. Sounds like one the Libs would go for.

    (I’m not arguing against the tax. I’m simply pointing out realities)

  19. Rex Douglas says:
    Monday, July 31, 2023 at 7:57 am
    I’m sure Griff even agrees with the Greens that more than $500M/yr should be spent on social/affordable housing and a rent cap introduced.

    ________________

    I have preciously stated my views on the matter on multiple occasions. I think Pocock’s (policy advisor’s) suggestions appropriate i.e. same structure but double the fund with minimum divestment and no eating into capital.

    Rent caps are a no for federal intervention for me. I have previously provided a few links that show that they are not so great. It can actually increase inequity among renters. One can put in place legislation that limits the frequency of increases, perhaps. And that is what some States are doing.

  20. ‘… instead allow welfare recipients to pocket up to $300 in earnings without being booted off the payment…’

    Is this additional? Because (from what I can remember) that’s pretty much the status quo (a decade ago, I think I had to earn $600 a fortnight to be booted off…)

  21. …it can actually be quite annoying when you’re earning just below the rate to be booted off, as you’re still doing all the paperwork and being asked to come to interviews for a minimal amount of money.

    All the disadvantages of being on Centrelink….

  22. Two Guardian articles today point to institutional racism in policing in NSW and Queensland. It’s actually getting worse. Across the country, incarceration levels are ridiculous.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jul/28/queensland-bail-laws-productivity-commission

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jul/31/nsw-police-use-force-against-indigenous-australians-at-drastically-disproportionate-levels-data-shows

    Australia is a racist country with a continuing appalling record of treatment of our Indigenous people.

    The Voice might (might) be able to have an impact on this, but Voice + Treaty + Truth would be a hell of a lot better.

  23. Do people here think we are prepping for war, or are already fighting a low grade war (without the bullets)?

    I noted the imbedding of US intelligence agents into our own defence department. It made me stand up and listen, and wonder if we’ve been subjected to the salami method of prepping for war as more and more US assets get moved to Australia. If I think back it feels like the past 5 years have seen a continuous drip, drip, drip of US forces being moved into Australia.

    Any one been paying attention to the detail of US force deployments?

  24. Zoomster, I don’t know where you’re coming from.

    “If the Greens can negotiate a better outcome, all power to them.” So Labor should give ground? One party can’t negotiate on their own. They need a partner.

    Labor voters want the government to negotiate WITH the Greens, rather than with the Coalition. Unfortunately, the government tends to turn Right before looking Left.

    Look at the discussions over that Coalition policy, the Safeguard Mechanism. Labor spent months trying to get Dutton on board. The Greens could only have an impact because Dutton refused to talk.

  25. ‘Hairy Butler says:
    Monday, July 31, 2023 at 8:20 am

    Two Guardian articles today point to institutional racism in policing in NSW and Queensland. It’s actually getting worse. Across the country, incarceration levels are ridiculous.

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jul/28/queensland-bail-laws-productivity-commission

    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jul/31/nsw-police-use-force-against-indigenous-australians-at-drastically-disproportionate-levels-data-shows

    Australia is a racist country with a continuing appalling record of treatment of our Indigenous people.

    The Voice might (might) be able to have an impact on this, but Voice + Treaty + Truth would be a hell of a lot better.’
    ————————————
    It is a pity, then, that the Greens are dragging the chain on the Voice having first strongly opposed it for eight long months.

  26. Good morning all,

    I must be still half asleep but I cannot see how increasing the income limit for people on unemployment before they lose eligibility would, according to the opposition, “save the government money “.

    It would seem to me that people, currently excluded, would be eligible for unemployment benefit thus increasing government expenditure. More than happy to be shown the light on this from those more clear headed than I.

    As well it would be interesting to see how many people currently on unemployment actually receive income from work at all.

    Anyway, a great day to all.

  27. HB

    I don’t know where you’re coming from.

    Virtually every piece of legislation which has passed through the Senate has done so with the support of the Greens, usually after negotiation/consultation.

    The same has not happened with the Coalition.

    If the Greens are unreasonable, however – to the point where the legislation won’t get up at all, and at present we only have one Bill where that seems to be the case – then Labor looking around for someone else to work with is simply an inevitable consequence of that.

    IF the Greens and Labor can’t come to an agreement about the mining tax, then the Liberals probably will be more than keen. And that would more likely to lead to cuts rather than gains – not a desirable outcome, but some is better than none.


  28. “Dutton may face questions, but no royal commission can fix cruelty. That’s up to us”, writes Sean Kelly.
    https://www.smh.com.au/national/dutton-may-face-questions-but-no-royal-commission-can-fix-cruelty-that-s-up-to-us-20230730-p5dsbr.html

    Let us face the facts.
    Federal ATM LNP governments have implemented 4 of the worst and/or cruel policies post World war 2 and ALP government adapted 3 out of the 4 policies.
    IMO, although what I am about to should be an excuse for ALP to adapt them but ALP Government did that because all the 4 policies were popular when they were implemented and 2 of the 4 still remain popular in marginal seats.
    So the key word is “popular”. So the cruelty is upto us.
    We allowed people like Abbott, Morrison, Dutton, Credlin, Bolt, Alan Jones to sway majority Australian people that it is okay to be cruel.

    Even Trump was impressed with implementation of Nauru Refugee camps Scheme. He reportedly said to Morrison how the Australian government could get away from that before he implemented separating children from parents of the economic refugees coming through south of US border.

  29. Doyley

    Don’t know how many on unemployment benefits also work, but I was in casual work of one kind of another when I was. Some fortnights I earnt enough to receive no benefits, others I earnt almost nothing, but most of the time I had some kind of work.

    Centrelink keeps you on the books (and thus subject to obligations) for about 10 or 12 weeks of consistently earning above the limit, so there would always be a % ‘on the books’ who receive no payment.

  30. Hey zoom,

    “We need the first (Voice) to get the second (Treaty) and third (Truth).”

    That’s where we are, but it’s bizarre. If you’ve got a three-part process with one really tricky bit (a referendum), do that last. As we’ve seen – and it was obvious – Australia is deeply, instinctively racist when it comes to Indigenous people.

    “That’s the order the Uluru statement called for.” Yes but it’s not terribly practical, as we’re discovering. The same group who signed the Uluru statement also asked for the referendum to be held in conjuction with either Australia Day 2024 or Anzac Day 2023, which the government has ignored.

    Try this alternative for size
    May 2022: Labor wins election
    June 2022: Voice legislation introduced, Truth process started, national Treaty negotiations launched.
    2024: Voice referendum
    2025: Federal election

    Too bad that doesn’t suit Albanese’s political calendar. Labor seems to want to keep 2024 clear for an early election.

    Other countries going through this process have put Truth or Treaty first. In South Africa, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission started work well before the election which gave Black South Africans the vote (Voice). In Canada, Treaties were signed in the 19th century, they’re currently working through their Truth isses. In New Zealand, a Treaty was signed in the mid 19th century, and designated seats for Maori have been around about 150 years. (How would Australians feel about that? Not happy, I assure you.)

    “Who are you going to negotiate a Treaty with anyway?” The people are there. The institutions are there: land councils, legal services, Victoria already has a representative body.

  31. The Commonwealth should not be exposing itself to incalculable damages to be determined by courts operating under its own legal principles (common law) by making itself subject to a duty of care.


  32. Mike Foley tells us that independent senator David Pocock has sprung a test of the Albanese government’s climate action convictions by forcing it to reject or support a proposed new law that would compel the government to ban new fossil fuel projects to prevent harm to current and future generations of children.
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/pocock-wants-veto-for-new-coal-mines-to-consider-harm-to-future-children-20230727-p5drtz.html

    Cue for BW to abuse Pocock mixing it with criticism of Greens political party, China and India. 🙂

  33. zoomster,

    Thanks for that.

    I am now even more interested to see how the coalition arrived at their savings figure.

    Much appreciated

  34. I’m a great admirer of Saul Griffith and his advocacy through Electrify.
    I’m hoping that he has the ear of our environment ministers .

  35. Boerwar, I’ll keep refuting this garbage.

    The Greens were the first party to back the Uluru Statement From The Heart. They back the Voice. Their voters are the most enthusiastic. Here’s a polling tracker from the Guardian:

    https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/ng-interactive/2023/jul/26/indigenous-voice-to-parliament-referendum-tracker-news-newspoll-essential-yougov-by-state-australia-latest-results

    One former Green senator doesn’t back the Voice because she wants Treaty first, but Lidia Thorpe has been even harder on the No campaign. And let’s look at the official No campaign. Major players include former ALP federal president Warren Mundine, former federal Labor party leader Mark Latham and former federal Labor minister Gary Johns.

    The Greens think the process is arse-backwards (should have been Truth, Treaty, Voice or all three at once) and, for reasons I outlined a few minutes ago, so do I.

  36. HB

    Can’t do Treaty without Voice because Voice determines who you’re talking to.

    Victoria set up a representative body (which was set up in a way similar to how one envisages Voice to be) before it embarked on Treaty, for this very reason.

    Labor has been guided every step of the way in this by representatives of FN people. It’s their advice they’re acting on.

    Maybe they’ve got it wrong, but I’d rather leave the decision making to them than decide that I know better.

  37. ‘….Lidia Thorpe has been even harder on the No campaign.’

    But she’s going to vote with them.

    Who cares if she’s hit them with a wet lettuce leaf first? The outcome is the same.

    She has actively undermined the referendum from Day One.

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