The usual weekly Essential Research coronavirus poll finds “only a quarter” of respondents now consider it too soon to be easing coronavirus restrictions, down from a peak of 49% in mid-April. There was also strong support for a range of fresh restrictions being imposed if there is a new surge of cases, but not for making the coronavirus app compulsory, which only 38% supported. Only 45% were confident the government would be able to adequately protect data from the app, and 44% were confident the government itself would not misuse it. Kristina Keneally’s call for a reduction in temporary migration after the pandemic had the support of 67% of respondents. All this detail is derived from The Guardian, which also tells us that the number of respondents who are “quite concerned” about the virus is up three points since last week to 49%, but without the “very concerned” figure it’s hard to know what if anything to make of that. The full report from the pollster should be published later today.
UPDATE: Full report here. The government reaches new heights on the eighth weekly iteration of the question as to how well it is handling the crisis, with good up five points to 71% and poor down one to 13%. The goodwill extends to state governments, who are collectively up three on good to 73% and steady on poor at 12%. The poll was conducted Thursday to Sunday from a sample of 1067.
Jaeger @ #150 Tuesday, May 12th, 2020 – 10:12 am
‘If you have a go, you get a go’. 🙂
Barney in Tanjung Bunga @ #149 Tuesday, May 12th, 2020 – 10:11 am
guytaur’s Pretzel Logic. 🙂
guytaur says:
Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 10:04 am
TPOF
It was on yesterday’s ABC News 24. The unmarried mother created more economic activity by working. Same applies to visa holders. As long as they spend in the local economy. Which they do. The whole backpacker tourist trade depends on those economics.
Edit: Wayne Swan used the same logic for his stimulus package.
___________________________
I don’t know about what Wayne Swan said, but looking at the other misreporting I’m not going to waste my time trying to find out how he has been misrepresented.
What I do know is that the term ‘temporary migrants’ is meaningless, but that ‘temporary visa holders’ is a term that describes anyone who does not hold a permanent visa. It covers the whole gamut of non-permanent visa holders from tourists at one end of the spectrum to spouses on a two year temporary visa which will convert into a permanent visa if the marriage is still ongoing.
KK and Abul and other rational people are talking about particular groups of people who have been allowed to come to Australia and work in circumstances and conditions where the main benefit is to employers who are not interested in investing in Australians and want cheap labour. There are plenty about but by no means does that encompass the whole stretch of temporary visa holders and nor was it intended to by the sane commentators.
The upshot of the reaction of you and the other greens and not a few Labor people who should know better is that you clearly support unlimited migration and totally open borders. Because your failure to distinguish between different temporary entrants leaves no other conclusion.
https://www.homeaffairs.gov.au/research-and-statistics/statistics/country-profiles/temporary-migration
Popping in briefly….
Peter Mares
Labor’s mixed migration message: Kristina Keneally has confused an important debate
https://insidestory.org.au/labors-mixed-migration-message/
Why don’t you critique this article? When I first posted the link no one here had anything to say about it. Still nothing.
Rizvi linked to Peter Mare’s article in his article.
Buce,
As the radio show has been the cornerstone of Jones’ gig, that’s why it is the bigger news than the fact he will keep doing his other gigs and seeming like he is going for good. When he’s not.
Aaahhh, this hoary chestnut aka bs.
As they swirl around the pug-hole of irrelevance the Greens really are taking nonsense to a new level.
TPOF
You really have gone off the reservation.
My opening sentence was I support KK and Labor’s policy position.
Pegasus says:
Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 9:57 am
CI
You and BW’s “sneering” at Greens never changes. May it long continue.
For as long as you run interference for the Lib-Nats I reckon I’ll have plenty of raw material to work with.
You get 100 misfits in one place and then you get this:
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/may/12/vaccines-5g-bill-gates-why-are-australians-gathering-to-spread-coronavirus-conspiracy-theories
Jim Chalmers
The Single Mothers were already resident in Australia when they came into the workforce and the Temporary Visa Holders weren’t, until they got here, and displaced Australian workers from their jobs. So there’s actually a big difference between the two, even if both had a similar impact on the economy.
Hmm, I wonder how the Temporary Visa Holder depressed the wages and conditions that Single Mothers in the workforce relied on as they did their jobs largely in the retail and service industries?
guytaur
There are reasons why the point we and others are making is being ignored by the swirling and growing pack. Ad hominems is all they have and speaks volumes. I am moving on.
I guess mentioning Single Mothers and Jim Chalmers on the same page will see the reliable as clockwork damp squibs from nath reappear.
Peter Mares
Labor’s mixed migration message: Kristina Keneally has confused an important debate
https://insidestory.org.au/labors-mixed-migration-message/
Why don’t you critique this article? When I first posted the link no one here had anything to say about it. Still nothing.
Rizvi linked to Peter Mare’s article in his article.
_________________________________
It’s a fine article, except that it expects politicians who are trying to communicate with and represent the thoughts of the 99% of Australians who do not have the time or the interest to throw away the game by drilling down into the details.
He is right, Abul Rizvi is right when they talk about the different categories and what some temporary visa holders contribute to Australia. But this is lost on the general public and if KK or others try too hard to nuance the debate they abandon the field to the Morrisons of the world who have no scruples about the use of some temporary visa holders (and illegal non-visa holders) to drive down Australian wages and working conditions).
And it may be nationalism to say ‘Australians first’ but it is not racism as the Greens here would have it. But then they only see things in the broad brush populism too (except the populism they appeal to are their own kind of unthinking moralists).
Firefox says:
Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 10:02 am
“Jones is going. Good. Why would Albo want to make an issue of Jones just as he’s about to evaporate?”
***
He didn’t have to make an issue of it, he just didn’t need to call in to Jones’ radio show and praise him.
If he did this then Albo is a lot shrewder than he’s been given credit for.
Cat
You are doing Peter Dutton’s work well.
The argument is why migration is not a bad thing.
What is bad is exploiting workers to underpay them. Temporary Visa Holders are especially vulnerable to such exploitation.
Don’t make it about migration or even tourism. Make it about the exploitation of workers.
[‘Liberal MPs are calling for a pathway out of the mammoth job assistance programs that are supporting more than 5 million workers as the coronavirus crisis pushes Commonwealth debt beyond $600 billion.’]
I reckon Rudd and Swannie are sitting back having a good chuckle over the fiscal stimulus of the Morrison Government, particularly the JobKeeper payment.
Political communication in Australia does not consist of finding new ways to gratify the Libkin every day.
TPOF
Donald J Trump.
American’s First.
Continually Insufferable
says:
Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 10:28 am
Political communication in Australia does not consist of finding new ways to gratify the Libkin every day.
_______________________
Perhaps. But they should have priority over pompous shed dwellers.
National data on migration includes all temporary visa holders of which there are many classes so Temporary Employment Visa Holders and Students who are allowed to work under their Visa are both Temporary Migrants. Our Net Migration figures take into account the net change in Temporary Visa Holders, also called Temporary Migrants. I don’t see how that is such a hard definition to understand or accept.
Unless there is a path to either permanent residency or citizenship then Guest Worker is probably a better term.
How these guests are treated and the impacts they have is another matter.
Clearly many are being sold the line they will end up here permanently.
And as most are aware, the skills requirement is largely bogus. Working where others won’t, or under conditions others won’t accept isn’t actually a skill now is it.
guytaur
And who the fcuk do you think are being exploited ? Or are we to be a bit Fawlty Towers and “don’t mention the war” or such visa holders a bit Harry Potter and become “He Who Must Not Be Named”
Not sure the purpose of the KK comments re immigration, but I doubt whether Australia can flourish with shrinking population.
Being on the wrong side of 50 I am happy for hardworking, adaptable, and creative people to come and live in this country to help support my lifestyle in my dotage. The problem is the where they prefer to live ………usually in the SE corner of Oz………so Melbourne starts to approach London in terms of population while Sydney sprawls even further west……………….
Once upon a time mining towns were constructed in WA but such is the commitment to “decentralisation” as it was once call, many of the workers in such areas are happy to fly for 5 hours at a time, live in camps and then head back to the more pleasant areas in the said SE and SW corner of Oz.
After a long history of failed ‘closer settlement’ schemes (some of my own family) not sure where the immigration debate is going….
Pegasus says:
Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 10:18 am
The upshot of the reaction of you and the other greens and not a few Labor people who should know better is that you clearly support unlimited migration and totally open borders.
Aaahhh, this hoary chestnut aka bs.
____________________________
So if you are not talking about open borders, which classes are you talking about?
Continually Insufferable @ #118 Tuesday, May 12th, 2020 – 9:54 am
On the one hand, yes. On the other, it does nothing to dispel the image that Labor, and particularly Labor under his lead, is weak.
Devote your career to slagging Labor, spreading nonsense (some of it defamatory), and rousing the right-wing rabble with bullshit conspiracy theories and your prize is a congratulatory slap on the back.
Used to be people like that were persona non grata for life.
Former Liberal PM Turnbull, on the other hand, pretty much can’t open his mouth without some prominent Liberal somewhere declaring that he should be expelled from the party. To say nothing about what they do to non-Liberals who’ve left the game; they’re not handing out back-slaps and letting bygones be bygones.
PB is so distracting……
TPOF
You have revealed where you are coming from.
Of course, everyone but you is too “stupid” to comprehend and understand.
You and others are bandying around the word “racist”. Point to a single post of mine where I have called anyone a “racist”. You wont be able to because I haven’t.
There is a difference between racism and xenophobia, you know. Or are you too stupid to comprehend that.
And it may be nationalism to say ‘Australians first’ but it is not racism as the Greens here would have it. But then they only see things in the broad brush populism too (except the populism they appeal to are their own kind of unthinking moralists).
Spot on. Nor do they seem to care about the Permanent Migrants who HAVE made Australia their home, many to take out Australian Citizenship, who also make up a vast number of those who do the lowest paid jobs that many of the Temporary Visa Holders displace from those jobs because they agree to do them for less.
Cat
Donald J Trump.
Americans First.
https://www.vox.com/2016/7/20/12198760/america-first-donald-trump-convention
For mine, there’s absolutely no problem with allowing temporary workers into this country just as long as they have the same rights as the host labour force, and in particular for as long as they’re not ‘indentured’ to any one employer. Guest workers need to be able to leave an unsatisfactory job/employer without fearing they will be deported.
Temporary workers – especially those on working holiday visas – are sometimes effectively ‘forced’ to work for little or no pay in the agriculture/horticulture sectors. They constitute a semi-captive but also temporary/disposable labour force with very few rights at all. This does reduce real wages in the food supply chain and represents an income transfer (by means of lower food prices) to the permanent urban workforce.
There is a reason that labour has migrated from the countryside to the cities over the decades. That reason is the higher real wages that are available to urbanised workers over their lifetimes. The temporary labour force – essentially a transient cohort – helps sustain that differential. That said, the all up cost of employing transient labour in, say, the production of tomatoes or strawberries or carrots or sweet corn or grapes or citrus or mangoes or avocados in Australia runs to about $33.00-34.00/hour. This is considerably more than, in, say, Thailand or Turkey or Greece. If fresh food is relatively abundant and still affordable in Australia it is because transient workers are available.
We should make sure that these workers – who are an important part of the workforce – are well protected and that in particular they are never ‘forced’ or ‘sweated’.
Pegasus
Thanks for the link to Peter Mares article in Inside Story
He doesn’t really address the question of why it is our country is unable to provide the low skilled workers we need, unless, of course, it is because our employers also demand they be low paid too.
A look at the all the graphs, and text, in this article reinforces this point.
https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2020/05/proof-australias-visa-system-undercuts-workers
The little I have copied here is just a sample. You really need to read all of the article.
We have created a system which demands serfdom to feed it.
We should be ashamed it has come to this.
a r says:
Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 10:38 am
Continually Insufferable @ #118 Tuesday, May 12th, 2020 – 9:54 am
There is absolutely no upside for Albo in making ungracious remarks about Jones. None. He’s leaving. Bygones can be bygones.
On the one hand, yes. On the other, it does nothing to dispel the image that Labor, and particularly Labor under his lead, is weak.
Devote your career to slagging Labor, spreading nonsense (some of it defamatory), and rousing the ……..rabble with bullshit conspiracy theories and your prize is a congratulatory slap on the back.
Yup, the Libkin earn their living by slagging Labor every day….spreading nonsense….rousing the rabble….and being congratulated for it.
ML
Thank you for your civil and informative post. I agree.
Agree. I have never suggested otherwise.
Pegasus
I was more upfront.
Still did not stop the attacks as if I was against the Labor policy.
As you noted even the old put down of “Open Borders” was dragged out.
I love this:
First this message is directed to me:
“guytaur says:
Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 10:19 am
TPOF
You really have gone off the reservation.”
then, 5 minutes later Pegasus posts:
“guytaur
There are reasons why the point we and others are making is being ignored by the swirling and growing pack. Ad hominems is all they have and speaks volumes. I am moving on.”
guytaur
You know how it rolls around here. You will never appease the pack unless you root for Labor all the time, every time. 100% all the way with Labor!
TPOF
Yes an appropriate observation when you dragged out “Open Borders”
Pegasus
“There is a difference between racism and xenophobia, you know. Or are you too stupid to comprehend that.”
Oh that AD HOMINEM has left me bereft!
Apparently only Greens suffer ad hominem; in turn they deliver reasonable and well supported arguments.
TPOF
You’re so cute.
Tricot says:
Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 10:37 am
Most mines don’t have a life span that justifies a permanent town site and those that do were gutted by the Fringe Benefits Tax – well done ALP.
If you had the choice of having your family live in a nice climate with good schools, jobs for your spouse and full health care versus a remote town in the Pilbara I know where I’d choose to live.
And before you tee off – I did three years FIFO. Two years of 4 weeks on 1 week off and one year of 6 weeks on 2 weeks off – so I know what it’s like.
Given that I was personally attacked by the two most sensitive flowers posting today, I will repeat the question that really got them going and to which they have aggressively avoided answering in a way that Scott Morrison would be too ashamed to do:
TPOF says:
Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 10:38 am
Pegasus says:
Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 10:18 am
The upshot of the reaction of you and the other greens and not a few Labor people who should know better is that you clearly support unlimited migration and totally open borders.
Aaahhh, this hoary chestnut aka bs.
____________________________
So if you are not talking about open borders, which classes are you talking about?
Didn’t somebody call TPOF a fuckwit recently? Sounds about right.
TPOF
You don’t get irony and the use of reflection of an opponents words to make a point, do you?
If you so badly need a gotcha…congratulations….feel better?
nath
Yes, they did. Treat him gently. He’s still hurting.
TPOF
You prove your ability to ignore posts.
Well done. It was never said so you don’t have to respond to it.
I will say it again for you seeing as you are so slow today. I agree with KK’s and Labor’s policy position.
So that must mean KK and Labor are for “Open Borders”.
I wonder if Jones will take many of his 2GB followers across to Sky after dark? Murdoch is probably hoping he will. The ratings will tell.
a r says:
Tuesday, May 12, 2020 at 10:38 am
Turnbull could have done a Howard/Gillard and gracefully retired. He has chosen to do a Rudd and both of them deserve every metaphorical slapping that is coming their way.
You have to love TPOF complaining
when he repeatedly calls others “stupid” and so on and so forth.
On that humorous note I really must away lol