The BludgerTrack poll aggregate, updated with this week’s results from Newspoll and Essential Research, remains unimpressed with much of the recent opinion poll commentary, maintaining a slow trend back to the Coalition that appears to go back to December. The movement since last week on two-party preferred is negligible, with a weak result for the Coalition cancelling out a somewhat stronger one from Essential Research, converting into a one-seat gain for the Coalition on the seat projection. Newspoll provides new numbers for the leadership ratings trends, which are all but unchanged. Full details on the link below.
Other news:
• The Guardian reports uComms/ReachTEL polls for GetUp! conducted on Thursday found independent Zali Steggall leading Tony Abbott 57-43 in Warringah, while Labor’s Ali France led Peter Dutton 52-48 in Dickson. The poll also found majority support for the medical evacuations bill in both electorates.
• Following Julie Bishop’s retirement announcement, Andrew Burrell of The Australian reports Bishop’s hope of anointing her own successor in Curtin is likely to be scotched by her opponents, most notably Mathias Cormann. Bishop has reportedly been pushing for Erin Watson-Lynn, 33-year-old director of Asialink Diplomacy at the University of Melbourne. However, a highly fancied rival has emerged this week in Celia Hammond, who resigned on Monday as vice-chancellor at Notre Dame University. Hammond’s social conservatism is noted in a further report in The Australian today, relating a speech from 2013 in which she “railed against sex before marriage and contraception, while arguing against ‘militant feminism’”.
• A Liberal preselection vote on Saturday to choose Michael Keenan’s successor in the Perth northern suburbs seat of Stirling was won by Vince Connelly, risk management adviser at Woodside and former army officer. This was despite the wish of local party heavyweights Mathias Cormann and Peter Collier, along with Keenan himself, for the seat to go to a woman – specifically Joanne Quinn, legal counsel at Edith Cowan University. Quinn was in fact knocked out in the early rounds, together with Georgina Fraser, business development manager with a subsidiary of Kleenheat Gas, and Taryn Houghton, manager with a mental health support not-for-profit. Connelly prevailed in the final round over Michelle Sutherland, high school teacher, Bayswater councillor and wife of former state MP Michael Sutherland. His win out of an otherwise all-female field of five excited much commentary about the Liberal Party’s deficiencies in preselecting women, including my own analysis in Crikey on Monday.
• Sighs of relief could be heard from the Liberal hierarchy the following day when the preselection to replace Kelly O’Dwyer in Higgins was won by Katie Allen, paediatrician and unsuccessful candidate for Prahran at the state election in November. Allen prevailed in the final round with 158 votes to 116 for a male rival, Greg Hannan, former state party vice-president and factional moderate who ran against Michael Kroger for the presidency. Excluded after the penultimate round was Zoe McKenzie, “a non-executive director of the NBN board and former chief of staff to Abbott/Turnbull government trade minister Andrew Robb”.
In the discussion on religion I think it’s important to make the distinction between the organisation (church) and the its beliefs (religion). As an organisation a church should not be exempt from any obligation to, or privileged above any other group in, the society that supports it.
Ridicule, however, depends on context. I have heard that respect is earned, but I choose to believe that respect is inherent and through actions may be lost. Either way, when there is no respect that is when ridicule starts.
Dog,
I don’t think the NDIS or Medicare could cope.
Dog’s Breakfast @ #1999 Saturday, March 2nd, 2019 – 5:39 pm
Such a shame that this is specifically against the law, isn’t it?
Thanks grimace. Good to hear. Maybe most people are numb to refugees/boats and want to talk about something else. In your door knocking over the course of the last year I wonder if you’ve seen any shift in attitude to refugees/boats or enthusiasm for the topic.
Why do Libs think everything can be solved by providing a website?
LR
That’s why I pointed out there is a difference between ridicule and vilification
The latter ignores the person and club or organisation they belong to are a result of being human.
Humanity deserves respect. When we stop doing that is when violence starts.
P1,
I see you’ve smashed them again.
Hat tip!
Thanks lizzie.
(ridicule warning) The internet is progressive!
One country that has implemented Rex’s policy of (effectively) banning the Catholic Church was Mexico. In 1917 laws, modelled on the French revolutionary laws, were passed suppressing all convents and monasteries, banning religious communities, removing the vote from priests, outlawing Catholic schools, giving the States the right to dispose of Church property and the right to ban or licence priests, banning any religious publication or priest from commenting on any public policy.
A militant athiest President in the 1920’s vigoursly enforced these laws and extended them. Hundreds of priests and lay people who resisted were killed. The result was rebellion by elements of Mexican society and civil war: Cristero War.
Rex’s policy could result in the Greens Party constructing a detention system massively bigger than Manus and Nauru. What delicious irony. 🙂
lizzie,
They see it as being modern and hip.
guytaur @ #2006 Saturday, March 2nd, 2019 – 5:49 pm
https://www.adcq.qld.gov.au/resources/brochures-and-guides/fact-sheets/vilification
P1
That’s describing a particular type of ridicule
We refer to it as vilification not ridicule in general.
‘severe ridicule’
So some personal ridicule is acceptable! 🙂
swamprat @ #2006 Saturday, March 2nd, 2019 – 5:51 pm
😆
I actually agreed with briefly’s proposition of ‘effectively’ banning the worst parts of RCC practice.
P1
To be clear. If ridicule in general was against the law then you could arrest Joel Creasey for his self ridicule about his behaviour as shown on Netflix ANZ
Barney in Vinh Chau @ #2013 Saturday, March 2nd, 2019 – 5:56 pm
I would be happy to let a court decide what constitutes ‘severe’ ridicule. Not you.
47 minutes to launch…
https://youtu.be/21X5lGlDOfg
P1
The point is it’s not severe ridicule to say “I don’t believe in a Sky Fairy and think those that do are fools”
Its a personal opinion.
An opinion that’s been broadcast by some commentators on national tv without breaking any laws.
The post at 4.54 by Holden Hillbilly is a AAP breaking article in the Oz:
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/latest-news/voters-worried-about-health-immigration/news-story/dbc0cd0746599a7d4996729d046d5962
“New polling shows voters are concerned about health and immigration but not so worried about defence and national security.
It also reveals confidence in all levels of government and business has gone down since Malcolm Turnbull was dumped as prime minister in August last year.
A poll of 1000 voters released by JWS Research on Saturday shows voters are mainly concerned with health, hospitals, immigration and the environment.”
That’s not true though is it, since you seem to be trying to characterise ALL ridicule (presumably including satire) as “severe ridicule”, and are therefore arguing that ALL ridicule is illegal.
As usual, you’re talking out both sides of your mouth.
Rex
I was referring to a post by you, i think yesterday, where you said the whole Catholic Church should be banned.
There was no mention of some “practices” as far as i recall.
Have you modified your totalitarianism?
This brings back memories, I had the suspension break going around a corner on an icy road when I was living there.
I wasn’t driving a Lamborghini at the time. 😆
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-02/lamborghini-found-crashed-in-a-ditch-owned-by-bitcoin-investor-/10864498
Late Riser, launch of what?
Rex, you’ve singled out one religious organisation and attributed something vague to me. I think I’ve been verballed. I think that’s otherwise called bearing false witness….or making stuff up. I’d be pleased if you stopped. I have not directed my remarks to any particular organisation.
lizzie @ #1993 Saturday, March 2nd, 2019 – 5:23 pm
😢😢
Jeez WTF is in the Pollbludger water this afternoon? People advocating banning churches and having the courts casting judgement on ridicule!
Have Bludgers forgotten two of the cornerstones of democracy are freedom from religious persecution, and free speech?
Bushfire Bill @ #2023 Saturday, March 2nd, 2019 – 5:09 pm
Sorry. It is the 1st commercial astronaut capable rocket to the ISS. (live stream)
guytaur @ #2018 Saturday, March 2nd, 2019 – 6:05 pm
As you say, what constitutes ‘severe’ depends partly on context. Try saying something like that when you are interviewing a job applicant and see how well you get on.
Please … try it! 🙂
Player One says:
Saturday, March 2, 2019 at 6:00 pm
Barney in Vinh Chau @ #2013 Saturday, March 2nd, 2019 – 5:56 pm
‘severe ridicule’
So some personal ridicule is acceptable!
And yet your point is that you claim that certain comments made are possibly illegal because of your interpretation of a law. 😆
P1
I like the song Every Sperm is Sacred.
This ridicules the Catholic doctrine on reproduction.
Get back to me with the court case for tv networks that have aired it.
Confessions @ #2026 Saturday, March 2nd, 2019 – 6:14 pm
The right to freedom of opinion or expression is not absolute …
https://www.ag.gov.au/RightsAndProtections/HumanRights/Human-rights-scrutiny/PublicSectorGuidanceSheets/Pages/Righttofreedomofopinionandexpression.aspx
It is specifically limited, for example, in the right to vilify on the grounds of religious beliefs.
Late Riser says:
Saturday, March 2, 2019 at 5:47 pm
Thanks grimace. Good to hear. Maybe most people are numb to refugees/boats and want to talk about something else. In your door knocking over the course of the last year I wonder if you’ve seen any shift in attitude to refugees/boats or enthusiasm for the topic.
*********
I’ve knocked on somewhere around 500 doors this campaign, it’s not come up once. Transport, education, health and jobs, in that order, are the big issues in southern metropolitan Pearce.
JimmyD @ #2020 Saturday, March 2nd, 2019 – 6:07 pm
Both sides of my mouth say the same thing, unlike a few others here 🙁
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/02/saudi-arabia-detained-womens-rights-activists-to-be-put-on-trial
Theocracy in action in the 21st century
Purple lamborghini found crashed in a ditch owned by bitcoin investor Michael Hudson
Presumably it’s actually the car, not the ditch, which is owned by Mr. Hudson.
P1’s
Religious police will be at Mardi Gras as well to arrest all the religious ridicule that goes on.
Of course any atheist statement can be judged as a vilification of religion. I mean, considering that you are implying people are stupid enough to believe in a vast range of supernatural phenomenon. Not to mention the offense religious people must go through when someone says ‘there is no god’. Thereby attacking the very fundamentals of their religion. How far are/have we going to take it. Any religious vilification cases that has made it to the HRC?
I think some of the professional breast-beaters, offence-takers and free-thinkers here on PB, the ones who style themselves as broad-minded lovers of liberty and tolerance have proved my point of the other day.
An angry mob wielding torches and pitchforks, telling others how to behave and barracking for banning them if they don’t comply, is just an angry mob, no matter which side of the street they walk on.
Re: Dutton maybe change seats.
I reckon he will probably do it as it will save his bacon. It will look like he doesn’t think the Government can win, but then again he is really going to be doing Morrison in.
And that will free him up to be Opposition leader post election….
Plus what would Dutts do if not in politics? Go back to Police work?
BT
A favourite kind of error, which always gets a smile from me. Can’t think why editors don’t pick them up. 🙂
P1:
Ridiculing religious belief is not the same as vilifying religious people.
Bill Maher is the master of ridiculing religion. He even made a movie of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdkyLrDpaUg
BB
Taking away a special status is not banning.
So you are talking a very small minority to conflate beyond numbers.
I am in favour of ending religious exemptions to discrimination law.
On the basis that law should apply just as much as to not cutting off the hand of a thief.
There are human rights religion must give way to b
And if it wasn’t for BB that angry mob with pitchforks might have stormed the court and executed any who stood in their way. As usual BB has saved the day. I will be recommending him for Australia Day Honours for his efforts in stopping a riot.
I am not a lawyer but i disagree with laws that restrict speech for or against religions. I think it is wrong to vilify people but religions, like all ideologies, should be able to be ridiculed.
Victoria has restrictions on speech against religions. Is it the only State?
“Re: Dutton maybe change seats.”
Well, Dutton has ‘officially denied’ it.
B.S. Fairman
I read recently about a reporter asking Dutton if he had considered moving to a safer seat. He replied that he would stand again for Dickson. If you believe his wife when she says he is a black and white person, and once he makes up his mind that’s it, then his reply should carry some weight.
Having said that, Dutton as LOTO has an odd appeal.
I think that providing a religious organization is within the laws of Australia then we don’t have any need to ban their practices and certainly not just because we don’t like the practices. It’s then up to the members of the organization to decide if they will comply.
Catholics for example have been using contraception for many years.
Well, I don’t know about the banning of the Catholic church in Mexico in the 1920s or whatever, but rest assured the bulk of the population is Catholic to its bootstraps and that includes the murderous drug cartels.
Mexico is a weird place – a devout adherence to a religion nominally Catholic but steeped in rivers from blood from and ancients long before the Spaniards came in the scene.
The Mexicans have a strange fixation on death. In one town you can go to a museum and see mummified individuals – not long dead – say late 19th century, and the place holds a fascination for both locals and tourists. The Day of the Dead in Mexico long precedes any Christian/Catholic belief though the Catholic church has managed to weave this pagan belief into some kind of Catholic one.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-antisemitism-letter-apology-corbyn-a8802631.html
…..Referring to Ms Berger’s decision to leave Labour, he went on: “When Luciana Berger left the Labour Party, I thought it was the worst day of shame in the Labour Party’s 120-year history. A pregnant young MP bullied out of her own party by racist thugs.” …..
Does religious persecution include persecution of schoolchildren in religious schools by their teachers, and/or parents, like the letter writer above?
What of persecution by church personnel of parents in such schools when they complain about aspects of the treatment of their children by churchmen and women? Examples include the persecution of the Foster family for complaining to the archbishop of their diocese about the rape of their daughters by a priest, in their school.
Does criticism of a church organisation, and individual churchmen on the basis of widespread, persistent, behaviour of this sort constitute religious persecution of priests when they haven’t been found guilty of anything?