Poll positioning

Fraught preselections aplenty as the major parties get their houses in order ahead of a looming federal election.

Kicking off a federal election year with an overdue accumulation of preselection news, going back to late November:

• Liberal Party conservative Craig Kelly was last month saved from factional moderate Kent Johns’ preselection challenge in his southern Sydney seat of Hughes, which was widely reported as having decisive support in local party branches. This followed the state executive’s acquiescence to Scott Morrison’s demand that it rubber-stamp preselections for all sitting members of the House of Representatives, also confirming the positions of Jason Falinski in Mackellar, John Alexander in Bennelong and Lucy Wicks in Robertson. Kelly had threatened a week earlier to move to the cross bench if dumped, presumably with a view to contesting the seat as an independent. Malcolm Turnbull stirred the pot by calling on the executive to defy Morrison, noting there had been “such a long debate in the New South Wales Liberal Party about the importance of grass roots membership involvement”. This referred to preselection reforms that had given Johns the edge over Kelly, which had been championed by conservatives and resisted by moderates. Turnbull’s critics noted he raised no concerns when the executive of the Victorian branch guaranteed sitting members’ preselections shortly before he was dumped as Prime Minister.

• The intervention that saved Craig Kelly applied only to lower house members, and was thus of no use to another beleaguered conservative, Senator Jim Molan, who had been relegated a week earlier to the unwinnable fourth position on the Coalition’s ticket. Hollie Hughes and Andrew Bragg were chosen for the top two positions, with the third reserved to the Nationals (who have chosen Perin Davey, owner of a communications consultancy, to succeed retiring incumbent John “Wacka” Williams). Despite anger at the outcome from conservatives in the party and the media, Scott Morrison declined to intervene. Morrison told 2GB that conservatives themselves were to blame for Molan’s defeat in the preselection ballot, as there was “a whole bunch of people in the very conservative part of our party who didn’t show up”.

• Labor’s national executive has chosen Diane Beamer, a former state government minister who held the seats of Badgerys Creek and Mulgoa from 1995 to 2011, to replace Emma Husar in Lindsay. The move scotched Husar’s effort to recant her earlier decision to vacate the seat, after she became embroiled in accusations of bullying and sexual harassment in August. Husar is now suing Buzzfeed over its reporting of the allegations, and is reportedly considering running as an independent. The Liberals have preselected Melissa McIntosh, communications manager for the not-for-profit Wentworth Community Housing.

• The misadventures of Nationals MP Andrew Broad have created an opening in his seat of Mallee, which has been in National/Country Party hands since its creation in 1949, although the Liberals have been competitive when past vacancies have given them the opportunity to contest it. The present status on suggestions the seat will be contested for the Liberals by Peta Credlin, who was raised locally in Wycheproof, is that she is “being encouraged”. There appears to be a view in the Nationals that the position should go to a woman, with Rachel Baxendale of The Australian identifying three potential nominees – Anne Mansell, chief executive of Dried Fruits Australia; Caroline Welsh, chair of the Birchip Cropping Group; and Tanya Chapman, former chair of Citrus Australia – in addition to confirmed starter Anne Warner, a social worker.

• Nationals Senator Bridget McKenzie yesterday scotched suggestions that she might run in Mallee. The view is that she is positioning herself to succeeding Cathy McGowan in Indi if she decides not to recontest, having recently relocated her electorate office from Bendigo to one of Indi’s main population centres, Wodonga. The Liberals last month preselected Steven Martin, a Wodonga-based engineer.

• Grant Schultz, Milton real estate agent and son of former Hume MP Alby Schultz, has been preselected as Liberal candidate for Gilmore on New South Wales’ south coast, which the party holds on a delicate margin of 0.7%. The seat is to be vacated by Ann Sudmalis, whose preselection Schultz was preparing to challenge when she announced her retirement in September. It was reported in the South Coast Register that Joanna Gash, who held the seat from 1996 to 2013 and is now the mayor of Shoalhaven (UPDATE: Turns out Gash ceased to be so as of the 2016 election, and is now merely a councillor), declared herself “pissed off” at the local party’s endorsement of Schultz, which passed by forty votes to nine.

• Hawkesbury councillor Sarah Richards has been preselected as the Liberal candidate in Macquarie, where Labor’s Susan Templeman unseated Liberal member Louise Markus in 2016.

Author: William Bowe

William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, has existed in one form or another since 2004, and is one of the most heavily trafficked websites on Australian politics.

3,175 comments on “Poll positioning”

  1. WeWantPaul @ #2695 Tuesday, January 8th, 2019 – 9:31 am

    … really smart people may well make hideous teachers but if you can’t do math the chances you can teach it are limited.

    Indeed. Year 11 and 12 (2F / 3 unit / extension 1) mathematics (same thing pretty much, different iterations over the years) is not for the faint hearted, nor for those who have just General Maths from high school as their only preparation.

  2. grimace @ #2696 Tuesday, January 8th, 2019 – 9:34 am

    don @ #2652 Tuesday, January 8th, 2019 – 5:12 am

    Maude Lynne (Block)
    Tuesday, January 8th, 2019 – 8:03 am
    Comment #2650

    Schools where the students do their Prac Teaching are now told they may not fail any student, even the most hopeless.

    ____________________________

    I am not surprised it has reached that stage. I know of a case some time ago where a failed student was simply sent to a different school in order to receiving a passing grade. I don’t know if pressure was applied. This was long before the present situation, which appears to have been streamlined to achieve the desired outcome.

    I assume there is some benefit to the organising body with regard to how many students are passed fit to teach.

    When I was at uni I sat on the Guild Council in several different positions, including President. In the 3 years I was involved, the Schools of Nursing and Education were responsible for more academic appeals than every other school at the university put together despite being about 10% of the student population.

    With education placements, the feedback that we consistently got from students was that you should do whatever it took to get a male teacher as your prac placement supervisor, and if you couldn’t do that, you needed to make sure that you clicked personally with your female prac placement supervisor. If you didn’t personally get along with your female supervisor, you could kiss goodbye your chances of passing the prac placement regardless of how good you otherwise were.

    That is very interesting. I have never heard of that situation before, though I have only ever been involved as a classroom teacher with prac students, so it never came to my attention.

  3. Terminator

    Personally I prefer to vote for the “best” candidate, be that ALP or otherwise – the one whose policies are sensible and generally align with my ideals and who will actually represent their electorate with the countries best interests at heart and not their own.

    That reads like something from a fairytale, in what ideal world do you get to understand what an individual candidate stands for across the whole spectrum of relevant issues? It takes generations of belief & research to have a series of coherent policies … something only a political party can do, or in the LNPs case not do.

  4. Regarding the problems with uni being more business than academy, make study at public universities and TAFE free for all Australians. Most of Europe and now NZ provide free higher education for their citizens, some in Europe even provide free education to international students.
    Finland, which often gets a mention when it comes to quality and recognition of teachers and education, seems to be particularly strong with the other Scandinavian countries in this area.

    Greens policy is free uni and TAFE, increased funding and increase in dole
    https://greens.org.au/campaigns/free-education

  5. Player One @ #2699 Tuesday, January 8th, 2019 – 9:36 am

    don @ #2623 Tuesday, January 8th, 2019 – 2:07 am

    https://www.networkworld.com/article/3326831/data-center/computers-could-soon-run-cold-no-heat-generated.html

    The important thing about that is that batteries in, say, laptops or mobile phones would last an order of magnitude longer!

    Goodness! You mean even a iPhone battery would be able to last the time it takes me to walk from my car park to my office desk?

    I predict a boost in the Apple share price!

    You need to google ‘how to make my cell phone battery last longer’.

    Basically what needs to happen is that you stop the phone apps from always ‘calling home’ every few minutes or more often. Turn off or remove any apps that you never use. My battery now lasts all day and well into the second day. Putting it on airplane mode when you don’t want to (or can’t) be disturbed is also a battery saver.

  6. zoomster @ #2659 Tuesday, January 8th, 2019 – 7:22 am

    Teaching standards should be raised using the old methods of supply and demand – make teaching an attractive profession, and it will attract the best and brightest.

    At present, all raising entry levels will do is lead to an undersupply of teachers, which will see sub standard graduates who (up until then) haven’t been able to land a job get one and underperforming teachers retained.

    ATAR scores are just one measure of one’s worthiness to teach. It would be OK if they were recognised as a one off measurement but they basically last a lifetime, so that someone who has done well post-school can find it difficult to get into teaching later in life.

    My sister, who basically failed HSC, became ‘switched on’ to learning later in life. A few courses undertaken more out of interest than any intent to take her further led her into a teaching degree. Coincidentally, another friend of mine – a PhD who had done well in Silicon Valley but wanted a job more suited to family hours – did his teaching degree alongside her.

    She’s now recognised as having developed innovative educational programs (she’s given several seminars) whereas he lasted a year (despite being instantly employed by one of the most prestigious private schools in the state). She could connect with students (and understood why they were struggling) and he had no idea. What was obvious to him, he thought, should be obvious to anyone.

    The real crime around letting students with low ATARs into teaching is that many of them won’t graduate and will be left with a HECS debt. Exclude students from University courses on that basis.

    Our problems with education (which are real but also exaggerated – we don’t do too badly, we just don’t do as well as we could) have little to do with the quality of our teachers, but on cultural attitudes. Asian countries – and locally, Asian students – do ‘better’ academically than others (as a gross generalisation) because their culture values education in a way ours doesn’t.

    That a teaching degree is seen as a last resort by many is an indication of the low esteem our culture has for education. It’s a symptom, not the disease.

    Raising ATARs won’t change that.

    Zoomster

    What you say is just wrong, wrong, wrong.

    oddly enough proof of its wrongness is in your OWN words.

    Your son came dux of his school yet FAILED english. Sorry but unless your son has some massive dyslexia problem or a serious attitude problem (neither of which he seems to have from your generally positive comments) he must have had atrocious teaching in English throughout his school days. In other words his English teachers were a waste of space. No teacher taught him well enough to pass the basic spelling/grammar requirements and clearly none inspired him to read a book or two. Clearly in his last year the teachers were not even able to get him him to read crib books to get by on the literature component.

    Now your boy was clearly clever and using his maths skill has got into enginering and very good luck to him. But what of the other kids who were not so clever. They have left high school practically illiterate and will struggle to find useful employment. Lack of English means they could not even score an admin job anywhere.

    What sort of education are we offering when a 10 ear old (mine) got a note from his teacher calling him a pedant because he corrected her spelling.

    What sort of education are we offering when a teacher who failed high school maths is teaching years 8/9, saying that her failure made her a good teacher of the subject because she understood their struggles. it must make the kids feel useless.

    So I am all with Tanya of the ATAR and I am delighted that finally the teachers union is on board.

    Frankly the way forward for education is to increase the entry standard to make it attractive and at the same time increase salaries. This probably means increasing class sizes to keep costs down and probably having some sort of pay differential to encourage more talented teachers.

    Now I would be the first to agree that at the younger levels teaching required more that academic quality but at high school (and probably for all classes for kids over 9/10) this will not work as the kids themselves start to know more than the teachers and that removes all respect.

  7. BK @ #2632 Tuesday, January 8th, 2019 – 6:59 am

    Christopher Knaus reports on how the websites of a string of government agencies experienced embarrassing errors yesterday afternoon causing domain names to erroneously display the home pages of separate departments. This government has presided over an IT omnishambles.
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/07/unintended-redirection-renders-australian-government-sites-unusable

    And don’t forget – this is the government you are trusting with your most personal health records, even though the IT experts say the system will be insecure, and doctors say it will be of little or no benefit to most people.

    Still, there may be at least one health benefit – you will get constant medical reminders from google and other social media platforms – they will bombard you with ads about how to treat your most embarrassing intimate ailments whenever your name crops up. Sure to be a great conversation starter at job interviews and on dates!

  8. Quoll @ #2705 Tuesday, January 8th, 2019 – 9:43 am

    Regarding the problems with uni being more business than academy, make study at public universities and TAFE free for all Australians. Most of Europe and now NZ provide free higher education for their citizens, some in Europe even provide free education to international students.
    Finland, which often gets a mention when it comes to quality and recognition of teachers and education, seems to be particularly strong with the other Scandinavian countries in this area.

    Greens policy is free uni and TAFE, increased funding and increase in dole
    https://greens.org.au/campaigns/free-education

    What is the estimated cost of those options?

  9. DaretoTread

    It is not uncommon to find engineers for whom English may as well be a foreign language. They of course are however fluent speakers of mathematics 🙂

  10. don @ #2683 Tuesday, January 8th, 2019 – 8:18 am

    zoomster @ #2677 Tuesday, January 8th, 2019 – 8:56 am

    ..and I repeat: raising ATARs will simply result in a dearth of graduating teachers.

    Students aren’t saying, “I won’t go into teaching because the ATAR is too low”. They’re saying things like “I don’t want to teach, it sucks” or “Teaching doesn’t pay enough.”

    We have a drastic undersupply of Maths and Science teachers now. Raising entry requirements will do nothing to fix that.

    Teaching has to be made a more attractive career – then the rest will follow.

    When I went into teaching, it was the only way I could get an education, despite excellent marks. We simply did not have the money for me to go to university, so I applied for and got a teachers fellowship, starting in year 10.

    Looking back there were other avenues I could have explored – scholarships into engineering or to banks for example, but that was simply not on the radar.

    Maths/science graduates would be foolish to go into teaching if they got a half way decent degree, unless they really wanted to teach, and did not mind the fact that their lifetime income would be far below what it could be in industry or banking. A former HOD of maths in my school went into an actuarial job, for which she was well suited, and got a huge pay increase.

    Don I am a tad puzzled by this comment. You are from NSW and i suspect roughly my age.

    At that time the routes for teachers were university teachers scholarships which involved a standard UG degree, a year at teachers college and 5 years 9or was it 3) being bonded to teach anywhere in NSW as directed. This was the route for kids from poorer families as they recived a very generous stipend. Kids from wealthier families opted for the Commonwealth Scholarship (if awarded) because it opened up wider opportunities eg medicine and Engineering or law.

    I am not aware of any year 10 scholarship program UNLESS you mean the commonwealth scholarship system which was intended to keep bright kids at high school. This was not just for teaching and indeed of the 6 who won them at my school only 1 became a teacher.

    However perhaps there was some year 10 scheme in the catholic system.

  11. Peter Stanton

    I was wasting my time on house work. In the Qld heat it is easier to do it at night.

    Too right! It’s been quite humid these past days.

  12. poroti @ #2709 Tuesday, January 8th, 2019 – 8:48 am

    DaretoTread

    It is not uncommon to find engineers for whom English may as well be a foreign language. They of course are however fluent speakers of mathematics 🙂

    Poroti

    Yes of course, but to FAIL English for an English speaker indicates terrible teaching over a long period of time. I am NOT suggesting that maths types kids are going to get top marks but failing is absurd.

  13. Maude Lynne

    Schools where the students do their Prac Teaching are now told they may not fail any student, even the most hopeless.
    Plibersek is right to try and raise the standards.
    The universities never will.

    If true, and by these actions and words it would appear so, it seems that Universities have forgotten why they exist. Have the politics of elitism, austerity, and competition so weakened their minds, hearts, and arms?

  14. DTT,

    What crap!!!

    I would have probably failed English if I had to do it at Year 12, not because of my ability to use the language, but because the subject rarely engaged my interest.

    I have been a prolific reader since before my teens, but rarely did the novels and other subject matter provided interest me.

    Poetry; nup!

    Shakespeare; nup!

    The day I finished my Year 11 English exam was a great day, no more English; that is …

    until I started to teach it. 😆

  15. Not a great start to the year – Antarctic sea ice is at its lowest extent in 40 years (since satellite records began) …

    On January 1, Antarctic sea ice extent stood at 5.47 million square kilometers (2.11 million square miles), the lowest extent on this date in the 40-year satellite record. This value is 30,000 square kilometers (11,600 square miles) below the previous record low for January 1, set in 2017, and 1.88 million square kilometers (726,000 square miles) below the 1981 to 2010 average. Extent declined at a rate of 253,000 square kilometers (97,700 square miles) per day through December, considerably faster than the 1981 to 2010 mean for December of 214,000 square kilometers (82,600 square miles) per day. Indeed, the rate of Antarctic ice extent loss for December 2018 is the fastest in the satellite record, albeit close to 2010 and 2005.

    http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/#

  16. dtt

    ‘Frankly the way forward for education is to increase the entry standard to make it attractive and at the same time increase salaries. ‘

    Right, so you agree that increasing entry standards by themselves is pointless.

    Conversely, if all you did was increase salaries, entry standards would increase as a result, without the need for an artificial barrier.

  17. don @ #2701 Tuesday, January 8th, 2019 – 8:37 am

    Indeed. Year 11 and 12 (2F / 3 unit / extension 1) mathematics (same thing pretty much, different iterations over the years) is not for the faint hearted, nor for those who have just General Maths from high school as their only preparation.

    Is it? I did a quick look at some example worksheets here:

    http://www.jaconline.com.au/mathsquestqld/year12b/solutions.html

    …looks like it’s kind of a hodgepodge of algebra, calculus, stats, and maybe trig?

    The mix seems odd (in the U.S. system those would each be their own units and taught in their own years, or at least, semesters), though of those I’d say only the calculus requires anything special (and in the U.S. system it was also quite common for students to complete year 12 without any exposure to calculus).

  18. briefly:

    [‘The Libling voices – RD, N, n, dtt, g, p, ca, s, P….there must be others – are essentially neo-Grouper. They hope to split Labor.’]

    If you’re right, they’re not doing a very effective job of splitting Labor supporters on this site; indeed, the reverse is true. One of those whom you cite rarely contributes more than a single sentence, another has reduced the cut and paste feature to an art form. Another frequently posts such drivel as to render his/her contributions incomprehensible. Another has a tendency to smear those in power, in the absence of any real evidence. That’s not to suggest that all of those you refer to are in the same camp.

  19. Various character assessments of F. Anning have been offered in recent days. Anyone who listened to him being interviewed on ABC RN early yesterday would I think conclude like me that he is primarily an ignorant, smartarse boofhead who has a pathologically high opinion of himself.

    That he also espouses most repugnant human values is IMHO a secondary characteristic.

    He treated the interview as a joke and a minor irritant to his self proclaimed role as Deity of the Boofheads.

    And Dunning-Kruger processes are rampant as well.

  20. It’ll be interesting to see if the basis for Trump’s ‘national emergency’ is the ongoing government shutdown or just the idea that a wave of scary unwashed brown people might hypothetically arrive from Mexico if a wall isn’t immediately placed in front of them.

    (mis)Appropriating funds to build a wall wouldn’t actually alleviate the former thing, so it must be the latter.

  21. @ Don
    As a Senior Practice Supervising Teacher over many years, rarely did I have to make the call ( in consultation with the Supervising Lecturer and Principal) to decide whether or not a Pre-Service Teacher ( Student Teacher) was suitable to become a full time teacher. Usually, the first two years of PST prac saw those students who did not put in the effort, or were not able to deal with the pressure, or who were just not suited to the profession, leave the course. If a meeting was called to discuss a PSTs suitability by Year Four of the Course, his/ her academic performance was not considered a deciding factor. It came down to whether the Assessing Team felt the the PST had all the requisite skills, the ability to connect with children and the commitment, and potential, to become the full-time professional. The evidence came from the observations of the PSTs previous and current Prac supervisors. The School’s Admin team would also sit in on the PSTs class. We did not take the decision to make a call lightly, as a PST had been in the course for almost four years.
    As a long-serving teacher, of 42 years experience, I would often refer, jokingly amongst my colleagues, to the classroom as “the front- line”. Teaching was, and is, a tough, demanding and rewarding profession, with teachers dealing with the development of, and progression of, the social and academic skills students need to have to live in the community, whilst also dealing with continual changes to curriculum, administrative decisions, parental considerations, behavioural differences and individual learning styles and needs.
    Like trainee Officers in the Defence Forces, the skills needed to become a good teacher were honed in the actual environment, not in the lecture theatre. So, these essential skills, as well as a PSTs ability to respond to a students emotional and academic needs,to interact in a meaningful way, are of far greater importance than his/ her academic performance. I believe that academic skills are important to good teaching, as a teacher needs them in order to develop those skills in their students, but highly academic PSTs don’t necessarily make good teachers. I believe in having teachers with good academic results through tertiary education, but considering academic performance shouldn’t be the sole criteria for selection in a Teacher Graduate course.
    I apologize for this rather long- winded commentary, but I believe that ultimately, a PSTs ability to become a good teacher should be determined through the process I have outlined .
    The thought that the University should make the ultimate call is both professionally and practically wrong. I wil not enter into debate whether that call is influenced by funding or policy decisions of the University involved. But our children need the most skilful and capable teachers. Teaching is a ongoing learning curve in itself. State and Federal bodies need to invest in mentoring and supporting teachers, especially in the crucial first 3-5 years of joining the profession. Experienced teachers are invaluable for our children.
    Teaching is one of the most rewarding and wonderful professions. I have a lifetime of experiences that I am so grateful for, both good and bad.
    I encourage young people to consider becoming a teacher, at whatever level, P-10 or above, private or State. Our country, and its future, need them. Let’s chose them carefully.

  22. My son did Specialist Maths by correspondence in Year 12. The supervising teacher commented in his half year report that my son basically never contacted him — and my son said that was because he could work out any problem more quickly by himself.

    Another person I knew – my boyfriend in Year 12 – realised before the exams that his teacher had failed to cover a significant part of the curriculum. He then learnt it for himself.

    Similarly, a guy I knew who went on to do a PhD in Pure Mathematics taught himself calculus over the school holidays when he was fifteen. Prior to that, he had been regarded as a humanities student with no aptitude for maths.

    I don’t know if it is analogous, but my best scoring HSC English student and I hardly exchanged a word all through her Year 12. She didn’t need me.

  23. Yes of course, but to FAIL English for an English speaker indicates terrible teaching over a long period of time. I am NOT suggesting that maths types kids are going to get top marks but failing is absurd.

    I only just scraped through English (as I am sure is obvious). My English teacher recommended I do journalism.

    English was by far the worst of my subjects. My ATAR was high and I was a male so the NSW government offered me a substantial scholarship to do a teaching degree. I was too young to really know what I wanted to do and they warned me that I could (would) get sent to Cobar or similar for 3-5 years when I graduated, so I declined and did something else.

    I only developed some of the attributes needed for teaching later in life (leading groups, self managing, mentoring and encouraging others, patience, kind firmness, ….). And there is the most important ability of being able to instil an interest to learn in children who otherwise dont have interest. ATAR doesnt give any inkling into a persons aptitude towards these skills.

  24. s taught himself calculus over the school holidays when he was fifteen. Prior to that, he had been regarded as a humanities student with no aptitude for maths.

    Was his first name Isaac? Perhaps Gottfried?

  25. Onebobsworth @ #2728 Tuesday, January 8th, 2019 – 10:26 am

    @ Don
    I apologize for this rather long- winded commentary, but I believe that ultimately, a PSTs ability to become a good teacher should be determined through the process I have outlined …

    No need to apologise for a good post. I worked in admin for a major regional uni for many years, one year spent being the planning officer (quotas etc). I know the angst that many academics went through in deciding the balance between filling places and maintaining standards. There was certainly pressure from mgt (usually Deans) to lower standards to some extent so that their faculty funding could be maintained (I did a lot of work with Faculty funding models), but the academics had the final say.

  26. As a teacher (classroom, not executive) of 42 years and about to exit the profession I have learned a few things that make a teacher or at least gave me a career that I look proudly back on.
    #1 Love/enjoy your subject area (speaking as a High School teacher)
    #2 You can’t run with the hare and hunt with the hounds
    #3 Be human, Teaching is the most basic and essential human endeavour

    Each of these can be extrapolated out into a much wider definition but they will see to it that you are seen as someone who can engage, inform, guide and trust.

    I have supervised many pre-service Teachers and the only ones I have given negative assessments of have failed in one of these areas.

    And while we are talking ATARs and intelligence, I put much more stock in emotional intelligence.

  27. A million fish dead in ‘distressing’ outback algal bloom at Menindee …

    But but but… the farmers say they know and love the land and care for it!

    B@#tards. The way NSW is dealing with MD water is criminal.

  28. Lived with an Oxbridge graduate who had Mensa maths skills but who could not teach others. Sometimes it is those who struggled to understand who are better and more patient when teaching.

  29. On battery life -my geek son told me also (besides getting rid of apps you don’t use and turn of notifications for dormant ones) turn down the brightness to half and leave apps you use OPEN in the background because every time reopen them, the act of mounting it takes much more power than if it is dormant in the background.

    Also turn of gps tracking for apps and in general if you’re not using it – the ‘phone home’ thing happens constantly and uses power otherwise

  30. zoomster @ #2715 Tuesday, January 8th, 2019 – 6:26 am

    Another person I knew – my boyfriend in Year 12 – realised before the exams that his teacher had failed to cover a significant part of the curriculum. He then learnt it for himself.

    That happened in my Year 12 Physics.

    We were well into our revision when one day the teacher walked into the class and advised that basic quantum mechanics had been introduced into the curriculum.

    So we paused our revision and were introduced to Heisenberg in all his uncertainty. 😆

  31. Good Morning

    On last nights discussion.

    I am for Jeremy Corbyn style Labor. Like that of Curtin. Where monopolies are public assets.
    Not sold off to the private market. Keating said he would not have gone as far as he did with his reforms and that today he supports the comments of Sally McManus on neoliberalism.

    That means railways electricity the NBN (the new Telecom) etc staying in government hands with an independent body. Not sold off.

    This also applies to the concept of mutual obligation with welfare the neo liberals came up with. Instead of society having a duty to its citizens it introduces the concept that you can have no support from the state at all if only they come up with a reason.

    I do think Labor’s review is a good move and I hope in government they attack this neo liberal concept of mutual obligation. Its one of the main reasons ideas like job guarantees and UBI are opposed.
    Note I say in government because I know that before the election they cannot do this change due to the decades of rhetoric about “bludgers” from those corporation Ceo’s whose companies are tax bludgers.

    I want Australia to be like Northern Scandinavia in looking after its citizens.

    This also has the benefit of cutting the ground out from under neo nazis gaining as much traction as they have done in places like Austria. And no Briefly I am not saying this is a magic bullet that will totally prevent neo nazis pursuing political power.

    I also would like to remind some posters here parties don’t own the voters. So the Greens having policies that agree with them or not that attract voters is a natural part of the political process and does not make them into an anti Labor party as some here assert. That also applies to this myth of the Green getting together with the LNP to stop the Malaysia Solution of Gillard. Gillard knew and Abbott knew the Greens were always going to vote against it because they are against offshore detention.

    So like it or not you cannot say the Greens conspired with the LNP to vote down the Malaysia Solution. Rather you can say that Abbott voted against offshore detention for political reasons. Thats the facts and blaming the Greens for Abbotts actions is just puerile self serving justification from Labor people expecting the Greens to be subservient to the Labor party and self destruct as their voters are against off shore detention.

  32. Funny how quickly the NSW Department of Environment insisted water management is not to blame. A rather Orwellian Department name.

  33. DaretoTread @ #2714 Tuesday, January 8th, 2019 – 9:57 am

    don @ #2683 Tuesday, January 8th, 2019 – 8:18 am

    zoomster @ #2677 Tuesday, January 8th, 2019 – 8:56 am

    ..and I repeat: raising ATARs will simply result in a dearth of graduating teachers.

    Students aren’t saying, “I won’t go into teaching because the ATAR is too low”. They’re saying things like “I don’t want to teach, it sucks” or “Teaching doesn’t pay enough.”

    We have a drastic undersupply of Maths and Science teachers now. Raising entry requirements will do nothing to fix that.

    Teaching has to be made a more attractive career – then the rest will follow.

    When I went into teaching, it was the only way I could get an education, despite excellent marks. We simply did not have the money for me to go to university, so I applied for and got a teachers fellowship, starting in year 10.

    Looking back there were other avenues I could have explored – scholarships into engineering or to banks for example, but that was simply not on the radar.

    Maths/science graduates would be foolish to go into teaching if they got a half way decent degree, unless they really wanted to teach, and did not mind the fact that their lifetime income would be far below what it could be in industry or banking. A former HOD of maths in my school went into an actuarial job, for which she was well suited, and got a huge pay increase.

    Don I am a tad puzzled by this comment. You are from NSW and i suspect roughly my age.

    At that time the routes for teachers were university teachers scholarships which involved a standard UG degree, a year at teachers college and 5 years 9or was it 3) being bonded to teach anywhere in NSW as directed. This was the route for kids from poorer families as they recived a very generous stipend. Kids from wealthier families opted for the Commonwealth Scholarship (if awarded) because it opened up wider opportunities eg medicine and Engineering or law.

    I am not aware of any year 10 scholarship program UNLESS you mean the commonwealth scholarship system which was intended to keep bright kids at high school. This was not just for teaching and indeed of the 6 who won them at my school only 1 became a teacher.

    However perhaps there was some year 10 scheme in the catholic system.

    I am here to tell you that I was interviewed in year 10, and got a small allowance as a prospective teacher, which my father pocketed, during years 11 and 12. I was in a state high school.

  34. My best maths teacher at school was a brilliant man who only did 2 years of a maths degree … in those days people were sometimes employed without the full degree. Needless to say, I hated maths (even though I was reasonably capable) and went the humanities route.

    After finishing my history degree (mature/p-t student), I had to consider whether a year out of the workforce and the cost of a dip. Ed. was worth it. I decided not and ended up teaching art and writing in the community college system instead while working at schools and uni as administrator.

    Sometimes I regret that I didn’t go into teaching boots and all … and then I remember some of the shit some of the teachers I worked with over the years put up with from both students and the public, and I think I chose the right path – it allowed me to do postgrad in my own time and follow areas of study that I love

  35. Quasar @ #2724 Tuesday, January 8th, 2019 – 6:43 am

    Lived with an Oxbridge graduate who had Mensa maths skills but who could not teach others. Sometimes it is those who struggled to understand who are better and more patient when teaching.

    One problem in Maths is there is often more than one way to solve a problem, so as you advance you learn new and simpler methods.

    The first thing you need to do when looking at a school problem is work out and remember what method they are being taught so you can explain it in those terms. 🙂

  36. a r @ #2723 Tuesday, January 8th, 2019 – 10:18 am

    don @ #2701 Tuesday, January 8th, 2019 – 8:37 am

    Indeed. Year 11 and 12 (2F / 3 unit / extension 1) mathematics (same thing pretty much, different iterations over the years) is not for the faint hearted, nor for those who have just General Maths from high school as their only preparation.

    Is it? I did a quick look at some example worksheets here:

    http://www.jaconline.com.au/mathsquestqld/year12b/solutions.html

    …looks like it’s kind of a hodgepodge of algebra, calculus, stats, and maybe trig?

    The mix seems odd (in the U.S. system those would each be their own units and taught in their own years, or at least, semesters), though of those I’d say only the calculus requires anything special (and in the U.S. system it was also quite common for students to complete year 12 without any exposure to calculus).

    That link is to the Queensland course, not the NSW course.

  37. Simon² Katich® @ #2743 Tuesday, January 8th, 2019 – 10:48 am

    Funny how quickly the NSW Department of Environment insisted water management is not to blame. A rather Orwellian Department name.

    It clearly never occurred to them that on the driest continent on earth, in the middle of the worst drought in living memory, with water upriver being massively over-allocated to commercial interests, and with environmental flows being sacrificed so that farmers can grow non-essential water-intensive crops … that we might have a problem.

    I mean … who could possibly have predicted it? 🙁

  38. Good morning Guytaur.

    Stop lying about Keating:

    “Keating said he would not have gone as far as he did with his reforms …”

    Every time I pull you up on this you cut and paste the same article, in which interview Keating makes no such statement.

    Let me help you out. Keating now says that liberal economics is at a dead end, post GFC in addressing what needs to be done now. That’s it. He does not say that he went too far in the 1980s.

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