Two new federal polls this evening:
• The Australian reports the first Newspoll in three weeks has Labor’s two-party lead down from 54-46 to 53-47, from primary votes of Coalition 37% (up one), Labor 38% (down one), Greens 11% (up one) and One Nation 6% (steady). If I understand the report correctly, Scott Morrison is up one on approval to 45% and steady on 39% disapproval, Bill Shorten is up three to 35% and down three to 51%, and Morrison’s lead as preferred prime minister is in from 45-32 to 45-34. The poll was conducted Thursday to Saturday from a sample of 1707.
• The latest monthly Ipsos poll for the Fairfax papers has Labor’s lead out from 53-47 to 55-45. After curiously low results for both major parties last month, this month’s primary vote figures have both on 35%, which is a one point increase in the Coalition’s case and a four point increase in Labor’s. The pollster continues to record implausibly strong results for the Greens, who are steady at 15%. Despite everything, Scott Morrison’s approval rating is up four to 50% and disapproval down three to 33%, while Bill Shorten is respectively down three to 41% and up one to 49%. Morrison’s lead as preferred prime minister is 48-35, out from 47-34 last time. The poll also finds 74% of respondents opposed to laws allowing religious schools to discriminate against gay students or teachers, and 45% in favour of a reduced immigration intake, compared with 23% who want it increased and 29% for it to remain as is. The poll was conducted Thursday to Saturday from a sample of 1200.
The largest native title settlement ever in this country’s history passes/is endorsed/is ratified/whatever, and the West Australian doesn’t have it on its homepage!
Spot the error.
https://twitter.com/strom_m/status/1052493674225926145
Pegasus,
I bet you thought you were all that after your latest swing at me. I think it just pegs you as a tiresome bore intent on hiding in the internet bushes and waiting for an opportunity to spring forth and pull my metaphorical dacks down. I suppose I can’t prevent you wasting your time doing that but I can question your motivation as it seems to me to be simply trivial and vindictive.
I made a point at the time wrt The Greens alacrity and ability to get into bed with a government that had just voted for a motion which endorsed the malevolent desires of Hanson and her White Supremacy cohort. It was a point which I felt was valid. What you have done tonight, on the other hand is contrive a pathetic gotcha, especially irrelevant as the motion has now been voted down by the Senate decisively a second time.
Greensborough Growler @ #2402 Wednesday, October 17th, 2018 – 4:47 pm
Understandable when you don’t know what one is!
Greensborough Growler @ #2402 Wednesday, October 17th, 2018 – 8:47 pm
would it happen to be that science starts with doubt, questions and a hypothesis?
unlike belief which, mmmm, does the opposite.
He could have been upfront and mentioned Faith. No one would have booed him out of the room, much.
‘Greensborough Growler says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2018 at 8:47 pm
Spot the error.’
Morrison.
Science should have nothing to do with magic or belief.
ItzaDream @ #2405 Wednesday, October 17th, 2018 – 8:53 pm
But, science is magic! So, it’s all same/same!
Nath,
I could write a sermon in response to your questions – but I won’t – I will just state what I believe.
For me being a Christian goes beyond belief, goes beyond believing in the Resurrection or that Jesus was the Son of God- as James states at 2:19 “You believe that there is one God. That’s fine!. The demons also believe that, and they tremble with fear.”
For me, it is about my relationship with God and with my fellow humans. I believe in the concept of the Grace of God (best articulated in Paul’s letter to the Romans) as opposed to eternal judgment, whereby Jesus’s death on the cross overcome the need for universal punishment. However the concept of Grace of God is seen as a gift, and like any gift needs to be accepted before it is of any use to the giftee.
Although there have been doctoral theses written on the subject, Peter, in his 1st letter at 3:18, summed up the situation perfectly when referring to the sacrifice of Jesus “He was an innocent person but he suffered for guilty people so that he could bring you to God.”
Yes I believe in heaven and hell, but not in the way many think of them. Whether or not to have a relationship with God is a choice we all have the right to make. For those who choose not to have such a relationship , what could be worse than spending an eternity in “heaven” singing his praises – for them that would be true “hell”, so God has set aside a place for them – not of dedicated punishment by God – but just a place where God is absent and therefore, unfortunately, where evil can flourish.
I also believe that God does not want to lose one soul and continues to reach out to us even after death. My belief in this comes from a comment also found in 1 Peter 3:19, where Peter tells his readers that on the Saturday (the day before the Resurrection), Jesus, in the Spirit, preached to the lost souls in “hell”. Although Peter does not tell us what Jesus said to them, for me, and according to my understanding of the nature and mission of Jesus, he was giving them an opportunity to turn to God.
Also my understanding of the sort of relationship God seeks to have with humanity can be discerned from the opening words of the Lord’s Prayer ‘Our Father’. In the original Aramaic language the word “Abba” which most English language versions of the bible translate as “Father”, is better translated as “Daddy”. So the relationship which God seeks with us is that of an intimate loving father/child one. One where the child refers to his/her father as “Daddy”.
The Jesus of the Gospel not only had contact with and ministered to society’s outcasts, he counted many of them as his friends.
Also, I would like to think that they way I treat others and the “good works” which I do is not motivated by the need to “pay for my ticket to heaven” but as a response to and in gratitude for the fact that my “ticket” has already been paid for by another.
Do I believe that those of other faiths will be received into Heaven?- absolutely – but that is a matter between them and God – because as I said previously, God would have none perish.
As to a belief in the second coming of Christ – yes I believe that Christ will come again at some future historical time. Is this belief essential to my being a Christian and having a relationship with God? – no. Indeed, for many (as the case for the early church where many gave up their jobs and just sat around waiting), such a belief can hinder their ability to lead active spirit filled lives, as we are called to advance the Kingdom of God, here in this place and at this time. If Jesus returns tomorrow or in another 1,000 years that is of no concern to me, nor does it impact on the salvation which is offered through the death and resurrection of Jesus, as I respond to the call of God on my life today.
I hope that this answers some of your questions with respect to my understanding of what it is to be a Christian. I may be totally wrong, and I certainly do not pretend to have all the answers – indeed it is my view that if you think you have arrived you never left.
Grace and Peace,
Ronzy
Ronzy
Are you Scott Morrison?
steve davis says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2018 at 9:00 pm
Ronzy
Are you Scott Morrison?
*******************
Scott Morrison would never be that articulate.
Greensborough Growler says:
After seeing that scientists’ heads are exploding across this wide brown land
Science and Evangelicals, passing like two ships in the night.
Ronzy,
Grace and Peace to you.
Puffy.
Rozny
For those who choose not to have such a relationship , what could be worse than spending an eternity in “heaven” singing his praises – for them that would be true “hell”, so God has set aside a place for them – not of dedicated punishment by God – but just a place where God is absent and therefore, unfortunately, where evil can flourish.
______________________
Thank you for your answer. I understand your position more clearly, but it only raises more questions unfortunately. You can confidently claim that Hell is not a place of eternal punishment but rather a sort of lawless ‘wild west’. I meet so few people who can confidently explain the order and nature of the universe and the nature of eternal life but clearly you have no problem in understanding it all, if nor perfectly, then with some precision and clarity. Indeed a Heaven where I am forced to praise God for eternity would be Hell, and I am sure that it would be for anyone who had to experience it.
Just on the fake Phelps HIV email, Wentworth is one of, if not the wealthiest electorate in the country and I’d therefore imagine voters there are well educated. I can imagine a fake pamphlet/email scam resonating in a boganville electorate like mine, but would Wentworthians really fall for something so obviously, patently and risibly false?
nath
Sounds kinda like Earth as she is now.
Confessions @ #2417 Wednesday, October 17th, 2018 – 5:15 pm
Well they kept voting for Turnbull and other Liberals before him! 🙂
A reminder when and why the USA’s moral authority shrivelled up and died. Remember also some of those being praised for going after Trump were up to their eye balls in this obscenity.
.
.
The New York Review of Books
The Innocence of Abu Zubaydah
……………………………And so Abu Zubaydah was tortured. As often as it has been repeated, the litany of this torture is still shocking. His captors hurled him into walls and crammed him into boxes and suspended him from hooks and twisted him into shapes that no human body can occupy. They kept him awake for seven consecutive days and nights. They locked him, for months, in a freezing room. They left him in a pool of his own urine. They strapped his hands, feet, arms, legs, torso, and head tightly to an inclined board, with his head lower than his feet. They covered his face and poured water up his nose and down his throat until he began to breathe the water, so that he choked and gagged as it filled his lungs. His torturers then left him to strain against the straps as he began to drown. Repeatedly. Until, just when he believed he was about to die, they raised the board long enough for him to vomit the water and retch. Then they lowered the board and did it again. The torturers subjected him to this treatment at least eighty-three times in August 2002 alone. On at least one such occasion, they waited too long and Abu Zubaydah nearly died on the board
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/09/28/the-innocence-of-abu-zubaydah/
Nath,
“Thank you for your answer. I understand your position more clearly, but it only raises more questions unfortunately. ”
Yes, that is the reality – there will always be questions as each answer raises other questions. Indeed, I think that this is healthy. It becomes truly dangerous when people of faith believe that they have the right answers and have no tolerance for or are openly antagonistic towards those who do not agree with them and will not accept questioning. Hence we have the Islamists or the equally dangerous fundamentalist Christians who broker no disagreement resulting in violence towards non-believers.
All I can do is state things as I have come to understand them – I try not get tied up into too many knots. As I said, I do not pretend to have all the answers and have expressed my understanding as I have experienced my relationship with God – but one thing is for sure I know that I will never fully understand – certainly not in this life.
Much of what I believe is based on faith, not science – that is what makes it faith – Hebrews 11:1 “Faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.”
Steve Davis,
“Ronzy
Are you Scott Morrison?”
Heaven forbid.
I cannot accept that this universe was created, and every being and state of affairs is being sustained in existence by, a ‘God’ which is (among other things) ‘all-good’ or ‘perfectly good’. How is it ‘good’ to create a universe in which:
a) a fate exists which feeling beings would need saving from;
b) feeling beings exist which can experience the suffering involved in such a fate;
c) many of those beings end up making choices which lead to that fate; and
d) those beings were made in such a way as to be inclined towards making such fateful choices.
This sounds like a being who has created a world full of the danger of suffering for the beings created to live in it, with
strict strings attached to any rescue from those dangers. This doesn’t sound to me like something a ‘perfectly good’ being would do, if it had the power to do otherwise.
So, until I can be persuaded that such creative choices by a being like ‘God’ are consistent with goodness, I cannot accept the Christian conception of ‘God’ as denoting anything which really exists.
Fess
If the Wentworth fake email story on Phelps is real, the Liberals have moved beyond “desperate” to “pathetic”.
If Phelps did have hiv it would be a confidential private medical matter and the email a breach of the Federal Privacy Act. If she did not have hiv then the email is a fraud and possibly libelous.
Either way it is the dumbest bit of fake news campaigning in recent times. Wentworth had one of the highest Yes votes in the country. The email will only highlight how many homophobic bigots remain in the Liberal party, in an electorate where that is poison.
If real, I hope the email sender is identified and charged. We need to stop fake news campaigning in Australia. The only way is to punish those responsible with the offences they commit.
briefly @ #2367 Wednesday, October 17th, 2018 – 7:05 pm
Just seen this – been tied up in a meeting. Great news after what was an exhaustive process involving the law reform commission, parliamentary committees and lots of consultation to accommodate a great range of views.
The rules won’t make everyone happy but at least its out of the criminal law and now definitely a medical matter.
poroti says:
Wednesday, October 17, 2018 at 9:23 pm
A reminder when and why the USA’s moral authority shrivelled up and died. Remember also some of those being praised for going after Trump were up to their eye balls in this obscenity.
The inference is that the torturers of were also pursuing Trump; presumably on grounds as false as the allegations that were used to justify the illegal torture of Abu Zubaydah. You’re implying that to oppose Trump is to be culpable of torture and to be willing to risk the unlawful killing of innocents.
This is an absolutely disgraceful distortion of the truth. There is no such claim made in the article you cite. There is no basis whatsoever for the proposition that Trump has been wrongly pursued or that those who have pursued him are criminal spooks.
Let’s be clear. Trump is not a victim of torture. His political opponents are not criminals.
It is, of course, almost impossible for a lesbian to get HIV – their risk is lower than heterosexuals, I believe.
steve davis @ #2410 Wednesday, October 17th, 2018 – 9:00 pm
Of course he isn’t, he knows the bible, unlike scrot.
David Marr with a bit more about……..
.
It’s not just about sacking gay teachers, the church has a long list of sinners it wants to punish
But in hospitals? The intrinsic point of a Christian hospital, the bishop explained, is not to cure people but “to do that in accordance with the teachings of Christ”.
By punishing homosexuals?
“I wouldn’t agree with the punishment of homosexuals.”
To lose a job is not punishment?
“The intention is not to punish.”
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/16/its-not-just-about-sacking-gay-teachers-the-church-has-a-long-list-of-sinners-it-wants-to-punish
Socrates:
It is indeed pathetic, and the comments by Phelps reported in the article only show her in a more positive light, not a negative one.
Stupid. What is wrong with today’s Liberal party? It’s like they have no solid foundations buttressing the organisation, just student politics flim flam.
briefly
I did not claim the Trump ‘goers’ were mentioned in the article. However the fact remains that several of the bustards were involved in the justifying of torture. Google is your friend.
Start with Comey
.
It looks like Dave Sharma isn’t a Blackadder fan.
Fess
There is no IQ test to become a bigot. The dumber you are, the more appealing the doctrine. I still remember footage of Pauline Hanson’s first rallies in Queensland. There did not look to be many doctors or scientists in the crowd. The Liberals now shamelessly court that same demographic.
Tom,
“Ronzy
Are you Scott Morrison?
Of course he isn’t, he knows the bible, unlike scrot.”
Thanks for that. However, for the record “Ronzy” is a she.
Acerbic Conehead
Good to see your cone again. could you explain for this dumbass the Blackadder reference. Pretty please.
#WeatheronPB: Steady light rain, sheet lightning and rumbling thunder here, severe thunderstorms in Sydney’s West.
Poroti
It’s giving Tony Robinson (Baldrick) the last preference.
Ronzy.
Good to hear and Im glad you can see Morrison is a fake.
TPOF
Well spotted you and the Cone !!
Congratulations to Anna Palaszczuk for finally getting the Joh era anti-abortion law off the books. One bit of the dark ages has finally ended. The only Labor MP to vote against it was Jo Ann Miller (of course!).
Interesting discussion on faith. 🙂 My view is that each has their own of some sort. People come to know what theirs is by having life experiences, trying to make sense of those, and working out where think they fit into the whole weird objective universe thingy. 🙂
Problem is dogma. One persons dogma is another persons dog-shit.
With this silly concept of “our holy book is fully true because our doG would not let it be any other way” has come much in the way of the trouble and division that plagues any actual debate and discussion on faith.
Its actually easy to reconcile the existence of God, or some such being with another label, with pretty much anything Science throws up………..provided you aren’t hung up on the whole literal truth of the book thing. Which is pretty much a weapon for insecure and cowardly dick-wads who’s main game seeking validation from controlling others, by screwing with their heads and convincing them that the Universe was created and is run by an omnipotent, interventionist vindictive arsehole.
Me, i identify as a reasonably chilled out Buddhist with a lot of learning to look forward to.
poroti,
“Good to see your cone again. could you explain for this dumbass the Blackadder reference. Pretty please.”
Have a look at who his last preference is. It must be another Liberal cunning plan.
Want to feel old ? The Chong from Cheech and Chong is 80 !
.
“Cheech and Chong star tries to travel to Canada for cannabis legalisation day ‘but can’t find passport”
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tommy-chong-canada-cannabis-legal-cheech-legalisation-drugs-passport-marijuana-a8587691.html
Did people really not believe leadershit in the Coalition Party?
Bevan Shields
Verified account @BevanShields
12m12 minutes ago
You won’t believe it but the Nationals are absolutely consumed by talk tonight of a potential move to topple Deputy Prime Minister Michael McCormack within days https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/they-have-lost-their-minds-government-fuming-over-growing-push-to-topple-deputy-prime-minister-20181017-p50aax.html … #auspol
Zoidlord @ #2443 Wednesday, October 17th, 2018 – 10:11 pm
#omnishambles
Yes, well done. I can’t believe we’re having these legislative arguments in 2018! And how’s Jarrod Bleije for ignorant statement du jour?
No-one cares about Nationals leadership chatter because no-one knows who the Nationals leader is?
I guess there’s a job waiting for Jarrod Bleije after he leaves the Queensland parliament harassing young women on the footpath outside family planning clinics.
Zoid, Cat
“You won’t believe it but the Nationals are absolutely consumed by talk tonight of a potential move to topple Deputy Prime Minister Michael McCormack within days ”
Shorten has already been warned to have a stock of lemons (to suck on) on hand in the next few days, with absolutely no smiling permitted, and a strictly enforced protocol to appear disturbed and concerned about the Nationals leadership if asked.
I suppose Barnaby going from the Nationals back-bench to Cabinet again will increase the average IQ of both groups?