This week’s reading of the Essential Research fortnight rolling average records an unusually solid two-point move in favour of the Coalition on two-party preferred, reducing Labor’s lead to 52-48. Nothing in The Guardian’s report on primary votes, so those will have to wait until later in the day. What we do have in the report is that 65% support a clean energy target, 74% back support for renewable energy and “a majority” support Labor’s goal of 50% renewable energy by 2030. Sixty-one per cent say the government is not doing enough “to ensure affordable, reliable and clean energy” (down from 71% in February), with only 15% saying it is doing enough (steady). Forty-two per cent say Tony Abbott should remain in parliament (down a point since April), with 30% saying he should remain (down two).
The fortnightly YouGov poll maintains the usual peculiarities of the series, most notably a headline two-party figure showing the Coalition with a lead of 51-49, based on low primary votes for the major parties and a strong flow of One Nation preferences to the Coalition (two-thirds, along with 27% of Greens preferences and half of the remainder). With preference flows like those of the 2016 election, Labor would come out about 52.5-47.5 ahead. The primary votes are Coalition 34% (steady), Labor 32% (down one), Greens 11% (steady) and One Nation 11% (up two). The poll also found 67% had voted in the same-sex marriage survey, of whom 61% voted yes and 35% no. The remainder, including the 20% still likely to vote, broke 54% to 28% in favour. Thirty per cent said companies declaring their support for same-sex marriage gave them a more favourable view of their brand, compared with 20% less favourable and 46% no difference.
Other findings: 37% thought the Constitution should be changed to allow dual citizens to run for parliament, with 45% opposed; 56% favoured stricter gun laws, compared with 7% for less strict and 34% for “remain about the same”; and 42% would deem it a bad thing if the government dropped its clean energy targets for 2020, compared with 32% for good thing. Asked to pick out of a list of 16 most important issues for the next election, health came out tops on 44% (though this was down five since August), with unemployment, living standards and the economy next placed on 30% each.
Note also that a Queensland state results from Newspoll came out overnight, which you can read about here.
Greensborough Growler @ #1595 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 9:28 pm
A fine collection of straw men analysed by the mediaeval mind of GG.
don:
My grandfather had bowel cancer. I was 18 or so when he died, but can still remember staying with them for school holidays and those times when he was sick were profoundly unsettling to experience.
His suffering was such that the relief in the family when he finally died was immeasurable.
Jen
You obviously did NOT read what I wrote, but only Zoomsters erroneous paraphrasing of it.
This is not my fault. But it is intellectually dishonest of you.
I do not like or trust Gillard, BUT what I wrote was factual and obvious but Zoomster chose deliberately to misinterpret it and you to just follow along.
I made four points that were NOT emotive but simply identifying PR mistakes, most of which were not necessarily caused by Gillard but my her advisors.
Now I have the sort of memory that does not forget easily, so while I cannot find quotes etc I would back my memory of events over Zoomster’s if push comes to shove.
Bushfire
Where I differ from you is that I do believe Gillard sold her soul. As a left winger she sold out to the NSW right, which is fairly unforgivable in ALP terms. She dumped the Mining Tax when it got just a fraction hot and in the election campaign was ready to dump the ETS with her appalling citizen’s Assembly. Her behaviour towards the USA and particularly letting the Darwin base may come to be regarded as the greatest sell out of ANY Australian PM. It most certainty is the single most dangerous decision made in my life time. For leftwingers like me she was a as serious sell out. Even on the issue of gay marriage she was a sellout.
There was a reason an honourable guy like Lindsay Tanner hated her and refused to serve under her.
I am truly amazed at how sanguine a Catholic hospital can be about the suicide of a young adult psychiatric patient.
Hypocrisy, much.
GG might like to apply his sophistry to such situations.
bemused
victoria @ #1584 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 9:12 pm
don
I am still traumatised two months after watching my once vibrant and larger than life brother in law die a “good” death.
i just don’t get GG at all these days
It’s simple.
You were raised a Catholic but have recovered and gained the ability to take control of your life and make rational decisions.
GG is still living in the world of 15th Century Catholicism.
Exactly.
It is god’s will, in some quarters. GG must accept whatever is handed out.
For the rest of us, not on your nelly.
(the site seems to be playing up. I hope this is not a double post)
Bishop couldn’t lie straight in bed.
Pathetic response.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/oct/19/julie-bishop-keen-to-work-with-ardern-despite-attack-on-nz-labour
don
Yep. god’s will is a crock of sh@t
The World’s first floating wind farm has begun delivering electricity to Scotland.
Five giant turbines have been tethered to the seabed about 15 miles from Peterhead in Aberdeenshire.
The wind farm has been officially opened by Nicola Sturgeon.
“This pilot project underlines the potential of Scotland’s huge offshore wind resource and positions Scotland at the forefront of the global race to develop the next generation of offshore wind technologies.”
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-41652707
bemused @ #1604 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 9:34 pm
I’m not prepared to help you with your PB suicide.
Nature must take it’s natural course with you.
Greensborough Growler @ #1594 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 9:28 pm
I don’t mind you being absolutist in your beliefs, and I completely respect your choice to stick by them in your own case, and to never refuse palliative care or ask for an assisted termination no matter how much pain and suffering you were experiencing.
But I hope I will be able to make my own choice when my time comes.
Oddly enough I find myself in partial agreement with GG. Probably my cynical nature but i think there will be lotsa kids putting pressure on granny to move on quickly, especially;y if it avoids the cost of bond paid to an aged care facility.
I have no problem with a Dr “hurrying” the process provided no relatives or beneficiaries are consulted.
Now i am fairly sure that my mother chose this way to exit this earth, but did all her family the kindness of NOT involving us. In hindsight, not obvious in the stress of the moment, her death was pre-arranged with her doctor, but none of her kids was involved in any way and none had any guilt or pressure.
Player One @ #1554 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 7:31 pm
Yes. It won’t be fixed until I put the ‘:visible’ in the plugin source-code.
Barney:
Yes, that first conversation is likely to be a mite awkward!
Greensborough Growler @ #1609 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 9:38 pm
Avoiding the issue as usual.
It is a not uncommon event.
Peter van OnselenVerified account @vanOnselenP 3h3 hours ago
And NZs 3rd female PM….meanwhile we are having a postal survey on SSM
Player One @ #1610 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 9:40 pm
As you know, I don’t condemn anyone for their personal choices in life.
Sometimes the consequences are in this world, sometimes they are in the future and and sometimes they are beyond this world.
Barney in Go Dau @ #1605 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 9:35 pm
Ardern holds the upper hand now. : )
Julie Bishop looks like a fool. Because she was. She thought that Nationals would win and so she launched her attack on Ardern, still a fresh new leader and a good 20 years Bishop’s junior, by way of having a go at Penny Wong and Australian Labor.
Well that little bit of political calculus has backfired mightily in Julie Bishop’s face. Jacinda Ardern will find it hard to keep the schadenfreude off her face when they meet. But being the bigger and better person, she will disguise it well so as not to embarrass Ms Bishop too much. : )
A R @ #1611 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 9:42 pm
Ah! Thanks.
bemused @ #1614 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 9:43 pm
Perhaps you can enlighten us all about your views on suicide.
Greensborough Growler @ #1615 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 9:43 pm
True enough. But if it is clear that someone has considered all the consequences of their actions (and I don’t mind if you include religious consequences) then I think their choice has to be respected. If you believe in a Christian God, then you also believe he gave us free will. And if God respects my choice, I think it is reasonable to expect everyone else to do the same.
GG ostensibly to Bemused:
Perhaps you can enlighten us all about your views on suicide.
I don’t know about Bemused, but I intend to suicide when the time is right. Or have it done for me, as necessary. There must be no heroic measures to prolong life.
I have told my loved ones that I have no wish to die in agony. I have seen it happen, and it is not pretty.
I rely on my family to take the necessary steps, and I am pretty sure they will.
Greensborough Growler @ #1619 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 9:46 pm
Sure, persons with a mental illness should be kept in a safe environment when experiencing acute suicidal ideation and not abandoned to their fate.
The present assisted dying would not allow assistance to be provided to such people and nor should it.
Anything specific you wish to know?
don @ #1621 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 9:55 pm
A rational choice and not the product of an illness affecting the mind of an otherwise healthy person. I have no problems with that.
Player One @ #1620 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 9:54 pm
What people do as individuals is their choice.
Involving others like family, medical people and the State is where it all unravels.
Bishop stands by her comments
Ms Bishop showed no sign of backing down and stood by her previous admonishment of Labour when asked on Thursday night.
“The fact is Ms Ardern gave an explanation a couple of months ago about the behaviour of a New Zealand member of the Labour Party and she said at the time that his conduct is wrong, it was unacceptable and it should never have happened and that he shouldn’t have become involved,” she said
“And I accepted her explanation and I agreed with her absolutely.”
Ms Bishop said she would wait for Mr Turnbull to call Ms Ardern when asked if she would call the Prime Minister-elect.
“It would be unprecedented for a Foreign Minister to pre-empt the Prime Minister in terms of giving congratulatory calls and I certainly look forward to working with the counterpart when the new Foreign Minister of New Zealand is appointed.
Ardern should snub the poisonous bitch.
Greensborough Growler @ #1578 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 8:04 pm
Here’s what I don’t get about these faith/belief based arguments. Say you believe that nature must take its course (and we’ll pretend that there’s nothing hyporitical between that view and driving around in cars, using computers, taking advantage of vaccines and antibiotics, and so on). And say you have no interest in being euthanized or having palliative care. Fine, so then do none of those things, and allow nature to take its course. It’s your life, and you’re free to do those things or not.
But you’re making the jump from having a belief to asserting that everyone else must be required to follow the same belief, even if they have a different opinion on the matter. Where does that come from, and under what justification?
What I mean is, this debate should proceed like:
…and instead what we have is:
Effectively the same thing applies to the marriage-equality debate. If you’re opposed to same-sex marriage, the obvious solution is to not get one. The logical justification for leaping from not getting one to telling other people who aren’t opposed to same-sex marriage that they can’t have one is never explained.
don @ #1621 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 9:55 pm
Suicide is painless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gO7uemm6Yo
Well put AR. I too see parallels.
But AR,
The Churches are the moral authority of our Society don’t you know.
AR:
…and instead what we have is:
Person A: I don’t believe euthanasia is acceptable.
Person B: Okay, so then don’t be euthanized.
Person A: I won’t be, and you know what, neither will you!
Person B: WTF mate?!?
Effectively the same thing applies to the marriage-equality debate. If you’re opposed to same-sex marriage, the obvious solution is to not get one. The logical justification for leaping from not getting one to telling other people who aren’t opposed to same-sex marriage that they can’t have one is never explained.
Well, see, there’s your problem right there. You are using logic.
Greensborough Growler
By deciding to offering palliative care only, your doctor has already made a choice for you – they have decided you have no reasonable prospect of recovery. Beyond that point, once medicine has accepted it has nothing further to offer, I expect my choice of whether to accept palliative care or termination to also be taken into consideration.
If both are informed choices, why should one choice be valid and the other not? Or, put another way, why should a doctor whom I may not even know be the only one able to make a choice about my life?
GG:
Suicide is painless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gO7uemm6Yo
Right on cue. When you have no rational argument, you put up something inane and mindless to try ineffectually to change the subject.
Oh god the No camp have unveiled Keith Windschuttle of all people to spruik their case. The No case is seriously unhinging.
Why are people talking about suicide when the debate is about dignified, assisted dying? Chalk and cheese.
don @ #1632 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 10:10 pm
Toot! Toot!
Julie Bishop, as quoted by Cupid @9:59PM:
“…And I accepted her explanation and I agreed with her absolutely.”
My rejoinder to Bishop would not be acceptable on such a polite blog.
A talentless, nasty lightweight determined not to retreat.
Confessions @ #1634 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 10:12 pm
I suppose you could call it murder with confected love!
@Bemused: Yeah…no. I have as much right to be here as you do. You want to spray abuse at other Bludgers, that’s your call. But this place isn’t your personal autocracy – people are going to disagree with you, and you’ll become much happier once you learn that you can disagree right back without childish name-calling and vindictive spite being exchanged.
@GG: You’re not much better. Arguments from personal freedom aren’t “middle-class sophistry”…unless you’re suggesting terminal diseases check your income bracket before striking? Didn’t think so. I, for one, am thinking ahead to the (hopefully) hypothetical day I’m suffering in incurable, untreatable agony from a terminal disease, and considering what options I’d like to have, even if some of them I’d want to leave unused. Instead of constantly alienating people by arguing in bad faith, you might want to consider that maybe, just MAYBE, their convictions are every bit as sincere as I accept yours are!
Blast! Did it again. I was of course quoting GG, not don! Apologies.
EDIT: Now corrected.
Greensborough Growler @ #1594 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 9:28 pm
Does that mean you are not opposed to killing people for certain kinds of crimes that are not “civil crimes”?
No GG, I call it assisted dying, and a person’s dignified personal choice.
There’s nothing suicidal about it.
Kevin Bonham @ #1640 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 10:21 pm
Combatants in war situations.
Matt @ #1638 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 10:17 pm
I’m underwhelmed by the quality of your argument.
GG
There’s where all your opinions are formed. The world has far too many absolutists in all types of arguments.
The world is uncertain, ambiguous – and strongly-held opinions are the origin are far too many of our troubles. Crusades using the banner of “TRUTH” have caused millions of deaths.
“Let nature take its course” – then climb in the cage with the tigers and see how it goes. Or try tussling with taipans!
@GG: Fine, that’s your right. As I believe I mentioned, I personally do not support euthanasia as an option, nor do I think I’ll ever want it for myself. But I can accept that I haven’t endured the grinding, hopeless agony that leaves some – some! – terminal patients wishing for it all to end. And so I accept that it is, fundamentally, a personal choice to make. Their life, their choice. Not yours, and not mine.
Confessions @ #1641 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 10:22 pm
Yes there is. But it is a rational choice under very specific circumstances.
I’m underwhelmed by the quality of your argument.
As am I by your pathetic attempt to equate Voluntary Assisted Dying with Suicide.
One is done with dignity, the other usually out of desperation.
Matt @ #1638 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 10:17 pm
OK, I should not have said what I said to you.
But I do not resile from what I said to GG.
phylactella @ #1644 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 10:30 pm
There’s an elephant in your room!
I think he’s about to unload your sophistretic accumulations!
bemused @ #1645 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 10:35 pm
As I said to GG, Voluntary Assisted Dying and Suicide ARE different. You can equate them if YOU want. I do not.
Suicide is generally a sad and lonely affair. Voluntary Assisted Dying can be made to be the opposite quite easily and happily for all concerned.