This week’s reading of the Essential Research fortnight rolling average records an unusually solid two-point move in favour of the Coalition on two-party preferred, reducing Labor’s lead to 52-48. Nothing in The Guardian’s report on primary votes, so those will have to wait until later in the day. What we do have in the report is that 65% support a clean energy target, 74% back support for renewable energy and “a majority” support Labor’s goal of 50% renewable energy by 2030. Sixty-one per cent say the government is not doing enough “to ensure affordable, reliable and clean energy” (down from 71% in February), with only 15% saying it is doing enough (steady). Forty-two per cent say Tony Abbott should remain in parliament (down a point since April), with 30% saying he should remain (down two).
The fortnightly YouGov poll maintains the usual peculiarities of the series, most notably a headline two-party figure showing the Coalition with a lead of 51-49, based on low primary votes for the major parties and a strong flow of One Nation preferences to the Coalition (two-thirds, along with 27% of Greens preferences and half of the remainder). With preference flows like those of the 2016 election, Labor would come out about 52.5-47.5 ahead. The primary votes are Coalition 34% (steady), Labor 32% (down one), Greens 11% (steady) and One Nation 11% (up two). The poll also found 67% had voted in the same-sex marriage survey, of whom 61% voted yes and 35% no. The remainder, including the 20% still likely to vote, broke 54% to 28% in favour. Thirty per cent said companies declaring their support for same-sex marriage gave them a more favourable view of their brand, compared with 20% less favourable and 46% no difference.
Other findings: 37% thought the Constitution should be changed to allow dual citizens to run for parliament, with 45% opposed; 56% favoured stricter gun laws, compared with 7% for less strict and 34% for “remain about the same”; and 42% would deem it a bad thing if the government dropped its clean energy targets for 2020, compared with 32% for good thing. Asked to pick out of a list of 16 most important issues for the next election, health came out tops on 44% (though this was down five since August), with unemployment, living standards and the economy next placed on 30% each.
Note also that a Queensland state results from Newspoll came out overnight, which you can read about here.
No word yet from JBishop but this article refers to her presumed discomfort right now (assuming that is, she is ever embarrassed about anything she says or does):
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/julie-bishop-left-redfaced-after-shock-elevation-of-jacinda-ardern-as-nz-leader-20171019-gz4j6a.html
Maybe one of the reasons NZ First chose Labour is that that their previous Coalitions have been with incumbent governments and this has been a negative for their vote at the following election.
“In Bolt’s world we need a hero.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBwS66EBUcY”
We don’t need another hero:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dq4aOaDXIfY
Libs in the Party Room will have to think twice if Hastie were to ask for a show of hands.
A R @ #1522 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 7:49 pm
All true (had to replace the quote characters). But the problem still seems to exist.
You only have to look at what Gillard has achieved since she left office to know that she is the Real Deal.
Rudd
Wandering around the world’s diplomatic B-grade outfits putting in his two-bob’s worth and being listened to by no-one.
Abbott
Congenitally unemployable, except sucking off the public tit that he so constantly condemns, continuing the only thing he knows how to do… wreck. It doesn’t matter whether it’s his political opposition or his own party, as long as confusion reigns and he gets a headline with Ray Hadley, Tony’s happy.
Turnbull
One of the greatest political disappointments in Australian or any other nation’s political history. He has reversed everything he so suavely told us he was in favour of, and has no hesitation in spruiking his contradictory positions as vehemently as he spruiked his original manifesto. He in fact has no views, except that of himself as The Enlightened One. A complete fizza.
Jaeger @ #1553 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 8:30 pm
Reminds me of the greek family that had 10 cildren that the father all named sSpiro.
Apparently, when number 11 was about to arrive, the brothers got together and wrote the song, “We Don’t need another Spiro”.
GG
Agree on Keating. The disgraceful underfunding of palliative care is 90% of the problem. My friends mum died of pancreatic cancer this week after being totally dependent on her family for 6 weeks. On narcotics, sedatives etc all administered by her family. Almost no hands on assistance from the health system. If they sent her to hospital it would have cost the government about $40K. Why they don’t help people in palliative care more is unfathomable.
A debate on immigration would be a good idea. Unfortunately it will bring out all the crazies and it will be hard to keep it respectful. But it does need looking at. At the moment, I don’t think we have much idea on what immigration is for, what we are trying to achieve with the program.
Australia’s natural population growth is high by Western / developed nation standards, but it is still well below replacement level. If immigration was stopped tomorrow, Australia’s population would drift up another few million, stabilise for a generation or so, decline for another generation then crash. On the other hand, as it is now, we are adding another million to our population every 2.5 to 3 years.
As an open, cosmopolitan nation, people will move between Australia and the rest of the world in both directions. That’s how the modern world works. As a peaceful, prosperous democracy, people will want to come here. As a civilised nation, we should be accepting a share of the displaced and desparate (looking at you Potatohead). And immigration should serve our interests, if we could work out what they are. I want Australia to be big, strong and prosperous, others want it maybe not so big. But whatever, we need to work out how immigration fits into the plan for the future.
poroti @ #1548 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 8:27 pm
Peters is a more natural fit with the Conservatives. However, he’s been sleighted by them in the past and wants to achieve revenge (allegedly). I see him as a Maori Horse.
This will not end well!
CT
Bolt hates Roberts due to Roberts bizarro anti-Semitic world Jewish banking conspiracy theory.
Steve777 @ #1558 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 8:38 pm
Clearly, what we need is a voluntary opinion survey to determine our policy.
What could possibly go wrong?
Diogenes @ #1558 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 8:36 pm
Hear! Hear!
We’ve survived through time without needing to resort to killing the poor,m the weak and the fragile.
I’m for keeping things going.
Re euthanasia: I don’t want it to become easy or simple to access, and I absolutely do NOT want anyone with any prospect of gain having a say in a terminally ill patient’s terms of going out – but I do believe that our lives are just that. Ours. And if someone is terminally ill, in chronic (and worsening) agony, and chooses to end a futile fight early…who am I to tell them “No, you cannot do that!”? What right have I to forbid another human being from disposing of what’s theirs (their life) in a way which does not harm others?
Would I ever choose to go? Probably not – but if I were seriously considering it, I’d like the option of getting assistance to make it quick & painless. And already, such decisions are being made…but without a comprehensive, coherent legal and ethical framework to assist patients & doctors in determining when it is permissible and when it is not, showing availability of palliation of the pain and how to get access to it, and the sundry other information which can help someone considering AD to make a fully-informed decision for themselves. I’m not a fan of the concept itself, but someone who chooses it is not harming others – and I happen to be something of a libertarian at heart, at least when it comes to personal decisions.
Anti-suicide laws are a religious relic dating back to the “Your life belongs to G-d” mentality. If that’s how you choose to live your life, I understand – I was raised Catholic, and I suspect my own personal dislike of assisted dying, even in extreme cases, has its roots in my family’s faith. But I won’t force my beliefs upon others, and I would hope that you do not either.
I accept that degenerative neurological diseases are more problematic. Palliation is much harder there.
Greensborough Growler @ #1559 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 8:40 pm
Bollocks. If you actually looked at the policies of NZ First and the Labour Party you would find that they had more in common with each other than NZ First and Nationals do.
Jacinda in tracky daks and painting her fence on election day.
I have already planned my death If Voluntary Assisted Dying isn’t legal in NSW by the time I, and I repeat, I, decide that I have had enough of pain and suffering and my wonderful life, then I will inform my children of same and then I will bow out of this world. With dignity intact.
Steve777,
I am cognisant of all the points you have made wrt immigration and it is why I stressed that I believed that we need migration to ensure the ebb and flow of people remains balanced enough to sustain economic prosperity.
JBishop may be about to hear a few choice words from the new NZ PM:
Greensborough Growler @ #1562 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 8:42 pm
I admire Keating, and I respect your opinion. But I disagree. My mother’s case was abandoned as hopeless by her doctor, and I had to watch her die in pain, confusion and grief. Her doctor was probably technically correct in his diagnosis, but her death was needlessly prolonged by pointless and futile “palliative care”. I know that if she could have ended her suffering sooner she would have chosen to do so, and I would have supported her in that decision.
I was young at the time, and alone, and powerless in the situation, and it still haunts me decades later. No-one should have to go through that, either as a patient or a relative.
CTar1
Cruel 😆 Also a show of hands would see him with extra votes .
C@t
When people are terminal, they are often confused due to metabolic problems and medications. It’s really hard to base a literally life or death decision on what they say, which sometimes changes.
BB
Spot on assessment
Clearly, what we need is a voluntary opinion survey to determine our policy.
What could possibly go wrong?
We certainly don’t want that. What we mainly need is a population policy, tied in with economic and in particular employment objectives. One that takes account of skills needs, humanitarian objectives, family reunion and so forth. One that is completely non-discriminatory as far as race / ethnicity, religion and so forth are concerned, taking due account if security considerations without being paranoid about it. Not easy.
C@tmomma @ #1568 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 8:49 pm
My mum has outlived three husbands, survived Uncle Adolph bombing her as a young child, and 18 months ago had some poor bloke drive through her bedroom window at 4am in the morning. She’s 87 and currently planning a cruise to the Carribbean in 2020.
You seem to want to curl up your toes at the first shot of grapeshot.
Greensborough Growler
C@tmomma @ #1568 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 8:49 pm
I have already planned my death If Voluntary Assisted Dying isn’t legal in NSW by the time I, and I repeat, I, decide that I have had enough of pain and suffering and my wonderful life, then I will inform my children of same and then I will bow out of this world. With dignity intact.
My mum has outlived three husbands, survived Uncle Adolph bombing her as a young child, and 18 months ago had some poor bloke drive through her bedroom window at 4am in the morning. She’s 87 and currently planning a cruise to the Carribbean in 2020.
You seem to want to curl up your toes at the first shot of grapeshot.
It is difficult to believe how completely you have no fucking idea.
Greensborough Growler @ #1575 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 8:56 pm
Good luck to your mum, but that is a very misconceived take on what C@t was saying. Age has nothing to do with it, nor misadventure with no physical injury, even if the idiot who crashed the care might have generated some mental trauma.
This is not about people being knocked off or choosing to knock themselves off once the pass the point where life is a ball of fun. It’s about people who are in extremis pain and facing a certain agonising and pointlessly prolonged path to death.
What is really tragic is that the people who most want access to assisted dying are usually people who have stayed alive beyond the point where they could efficiently and painlessly do away with themselves and need to rely on a third person to assist them.
Player One @ #1571 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 8:53 pm
Nature needs to take it’s course. I’m not comfortable with life extending palliative care when the outcome is obvious to all and sundry. Waste of money, waste of emotion.
Unfortunately, no one knows how, when and the condition they will pass.
Well consider me surprised that Labor are in govt in NZ. I thought the Nats would get the support of Peters’ party, but clearly I was wrong.
JBishop is about to have an awkward moment when she has to have her first chat with the incoming PM!
Greensborough Growler @ #1562 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 8:42 pm
The art of the torturer is to keep the victims alive and in torment.
I understand your enthusiasm.
I believe in letting people go when they want to, and under their terms.
don @ #1577 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 8:58 pm
Toot! Toot!
Cricket season is about to start.
Greensborough Growler @ #1578 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 9:04 pm
Historically perhaps, but we now have modern medicine. Intervention is the new “normal”.
Then you should support someone in extremis choosing to terminate palliative care and instead end their life.
Agreed, no one knows. But the one person entitled to make a decision in the absence of certainty is the patient – not the doctor. Currently, the doctor makes all the choices and the patient makes none.
don
I am still traumatised two months after watching my once vibrant and larger than life brother in law die a “good” death.
i just don’t get GG at all these days
Greensborough Growler @ #1575 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 8:56 pm
I am glad to hear your mum is well and able to enjoy an active life. I hope that she stays that way.
Others are not so fortunate and they are entitled to end their suffering if and when they wish.
adrian
Almost word for word – Eliza Berrello (?) on PM:
‘Labor Party sources say they will eventually sign up to the scheme, but will have a bit of fun in the meantime.
Christopher Pyne neatly joined the dots’…cue Pyne rabitting on in his usual nonsensical way.
FFS what Labor Party ‘source’ would say such a thing??
Most of them, I expect – perhaps off the record, but true nevertheless.
The scheme does not come into effect until Labor is in power, and they can then disable it completely, modify it as necessary, or introduce a brand new scheme. Just so long as they can get the agreement of the Senate, it’s all good.
Time to have a little amusement making the LNP run around like chooks with their head cut off.
And Labor can truthfully say ‘We had a bipartisan approach to the LNP scheme’ and the Libs can’t use it as a blunt instrument to beat them over the head with during the election campaign.
Which seems to be in effect as of now.
Tony Abbott, however, will do Labor’s job, and will happily beat his nearest and dearest around the head with the NEG instead of Labor, not a problem. Wreckers gotta wreck.
As Napoleon once reportedly said ‘Never interrupt your enemies when they are making a mistake’
Bill Shorten must surely not believe his luck. Certainly he has made his own luck, but still……
Fess
Count me as another one who is suprised that NZ Labour is in govt
victoria @ #1584 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 9:12 pm
It’s simple.
You were raised a Catholic but have recovered and gained the ability to take control of your life and make rational decisions.
GG is still living in the world of 15th Century Catholicism.
victoria:
Same for me with my grandfather who died a slow painful death from cancer. Not to mention the stress and anxiety his illness and progress to an eventual death caused my grandmother.
Bemused, that jab at GG is cruel, even for you. Kindly retract the implication that he’s a “torturer”.
P1:
My mother’s case was abandoned as hopeless by her doctor, and I had to watch her die in pain, confusion and grief. Her doctor was probably technically correct in his diagnosis, but her death was needlessly prolonged by pointless and futile “palliative care”. I know that if she could have ended her suffering sooner she would have chosen to do so, and I would have supported her in that decision.
I was young at the time, and alone, and powerless in the situation, and it still haunts me decades later. No-one should have to go through that, either as a patient or a relative.
I was in a similar situation. My mother died of bowel cancer when I was 12 years old, in agony.
I well remember her saying to my father ‘Ted, please make them stop the pain’. But in that situation he had no control.
In marked contrast, a good friend of mine in more recent times was put on ever increasing doses of morphine by a competent doctor ‘to ease the pain’ and died with dignity.
We sometimes forget that there are many in the medical profession, at least now, who are well aware of the situation, and interpret the rules as necessary. May their tribe increase.
Fess
yes the stress and anxiety on my sister was unbearable and heartbreaking. She most definitely is suffering PTSD.
Matt @ #1590 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 9:23 pm
Piss off.
Greensborough Growler,
I hope to live longer than your mother. Also, considering the life that I have had, with, sorry, no connection to Hitler, but horrific in it’s own way just the same, I, too, value life over death. As I say to my children, to constantly remind them of their own mortality, “You are a long time cold in the ground.” So don’t you try and condescendingly smarm your way into making me out to be reckless in my considerations wrt the end of my own life.
I am fully cognisant of the physiological parameters that define, ‘life’ and ‘death’ and the medical interventions that have been devised to prolong it, often beyond all reason.
Who does that benefit in the end? A family that wants to ‘do the right thing’ by the terminally ailing, and a Palliative Care Industry, often run by the same religious entities that you profess your fealty to. For a profit. As well as being well-meaning, I admit. Well, I guess it depends on the job you hold within the industry whether you are one of the well-meaning ones, or a bean counter.
However, truth be told, I’m sure if you asked a panel of religious scholars whether they should disavow medical intervention for the dying because, when their religious texts were written as there was none of that medical intervention which is used today to prolong people’s lives, and if they were going to be true to the texts they live by then they would have to agree that people should just be allowed to die naturally. Thus you would end up closer to the people who support Voluntary Assisted Dying.
But Blind Faith is blinkered and can’t see that.
Player One @ #1583 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 9:10 pm
I’m an absolutist on this issue. I don’t believe in killing the old, the sick and the demented. I don’t believe in killing unborn children. I’m opposed to killing people for civil crimes.
So, I know there are plenty of middle class sophistry arguments about personal rights and the like.
To me, they are all “slippery slope” arguments that eventually justify killing those who need our protection and love.
BK @ #1474 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 3:40 pm
Labor could win 100+ seats and our lot would still yell “we was robbed!!!!:
don @ #1591 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 9:24 pm
Terrible to imagine that scene with you and your father having to listen in despair to her pleas and unable to do anything.
Hard to penetrate the mind of those who support such suffering.
I won’t criticise anyone on account of the position they take in the assisted dying debate.
How about we cut back on the piss offs and fuck yous and such.
don @ #1590 Thursday, October 19th, 2017 – 9:24 pm
True enough – but it should not only be those lucky or wealthy enough to have a sympathetic and co-operative doctor who get the chance to die with dignity. And in case there is any doubt about your mental capacity at the time, you should have the option of specifying your wishes in advance, and having them taken into account when the time comes.