This week’s BludgerTrack poll aggregate, which avails itself of new results from Newspoll, Essential Research and Morgan, provides further evidence against the notion that the Coalition might have turned the corner following its post-budget slump. Labor is up 0.3% on two-party preferred, enough to boost it by three on the seat projection with gains in Queensland, South Australia and Tasmania. The main change on the primary vote is a lift for Palmer United, which might reflect its publicity surge in the wake of the Senate changeover, although you would want to see that corroborated by a few more results before taking it to the bank. Newspoll as always provides new numbers on leadership approval, but they have once again failed to disturb a picture that has been set in place for at least the past few weeks – a slight decline for Bill Shorten off a post-budget spike, and reliably poor ratings for Tony Abbott.
The Chinese government position on condemnation of Putin is made clear in this People’s Daily article last night:
[As international investigation is pending, officials from the United States, Australia and other western countries have already pointed their fingers at the rebels in eastern Ukraine and blamed Russia for the escalating violence there.
The accusation was apparently rash when the officials acknowledged they did not know for the time being who are responsible for the attack, while condemning Russia’s military intervention.
The one-sided accusation is not surprising in light of their long-time stance on the crisis in eastern Ukraine, and their attitude towards Russia’s absorption of Crimea in March.]
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/n/2014/0718/c90777-8757846.html
I don’t think China would support banning Putin at G20.
The Abbott government is set to dissolve a Senate committee scrutinising the National Broadband Network and replace it with a new committee dominated by Coalition members.
The current committee, established after the last election, has three Coalition senators, three Labor senators and one Greens senator. The new committee would have five Coalition members, three Labor members and one minor party member.
“Malcolm Turnbull is trying to kill scrutiny of the NBN. Regardless of what you think about the NBN, this is the biggest infrastructure project in Australia.”
briefly@1700
So instead of being welcomed along with all the other guests, they will be made to stand in the ‘naughty corner’?
Or will they be locked out completely?
[1701
citizen
The Chinese government position on condemnation of Putin is made clear in this People’s Daily article last night]
A Chinese elision. They should insist on an investigation, along with everyone else.
MH 17
What is required is resolution for the victims families & quickly.
US reporters that have been to the scene say bodies are still in seats & NOTHING is being done as they rot in the heat.
If the posturing western governments want to do something they should ask the Ukrainians to invite NATO to secure the area & remove bodies & wreckage.
NATO should tell Putin it is the Ukraine & a NATO no fly zone so Russia keep out.
Russia can do what they want after NATO leave ( 2 weeks? )
On a related issue, the west is going to pay a big price for not supporting Gorbachov.
He wasn’t corrupt enough for the US & European banks
The problem for the government if Putin comes to the G20 will be there will probably be demonstrations against him with the loved ones of victims of the shot down planes in attendance. The sight on national TV of Australian policemen pushing and shoving demonstrators including victim’s families away from where ever Putin is may be a problem. Of coarse this won’t be a problem for some people here on PB who will be too busy to notice as they’ll be leading the counter demonstrations in favour of Putin holding placards saying “Only Americans commit war crimes, Putin is a Saint”.
I want to know WHY that plane was shot down?
Someone has got some serious shit explaining to do!
Gittins It’s official: Australia’s labour productivity returned to normal during reign of Julia Gillard.
http://www.smh.com.au/business/tough-times-restore-productivity-performance-20140706-zsxcl.html …
[You should really choose whether you want to deflect attention from those suspected of committing this outrage or whether you want them brought to justice.]
Are you suggesting I want the people responsible for shooting down a plane full of civilians to get away with it?
[The point is there needs to be an impartial investigation and those found responsible need to be charged and tried. This is a criminal act.}
ReallY? Wow colour me surprised…
After an impartial investigation carried out by people who aren’t actually posting on this website then all of us will be in a better position to make judgements about who is responsible for what. And how much responsibility they bear.
If you really think I’m saying anything other than that please reread what i have said.
[Essentially, all the wars ever fought (including the one now being waged in Ukraine) only go to prove that the pursuit of death is no answer to claims for national self-determination. The lust to kill leads only to shame, despair and ultimately to moral oblivion. We have no choice other than to stand against this.]
Within limits that allow for self defense I completely agree with this.
But I don’t think its appropriate for any of us to claim we know what its like in the Ukraine, nor the ins and outs of it. My wife spends a lot of time on facebook chatting with musicians (kind of if you consider industrial noise, digital hadcore and the like to be music) and the people she talks to comment on the rise of the far right in the Ukraine. And Russia and throughout Eastern Europe. None of those people support the separatists or the Russian govt. The government formed during late Feb and March contained members of a far right party, one of them was given the position of deputy vice prime minister (reminds me of my school sporting teams) in the interim govt.
This is a significant influence in Ukrainian politics. Given that its is plausible that the separatists are acting because of a genuine fear of nationalists who might hurt them. Its also plausible that Putin is responding to this out of a sense of loyalty to fellow ethnic Russians.
Further it is also plausible that he is acting cynically to increase his geopolitical advantage and gain territory (and personally that is my opinion). His govt may also have orchestrated these events regarding the separatists – I’m not denying that. But we don’t know and assuming we do is not really a good thing imo.
To me it seems this incident is being framed as “Ukraine good Russia bad” and that a far too simplistic view of something.
Also regarding the rule of law and punishing those responsible – what law and under whose jurisdiction?
Just saw Abbott’s mug on ABC24
peppy7@1706
You have a great career as a fiction writer awaiting you!
It has yet to be determined just who was responsible for this particular incident.
I suspect the Russians are aghast as it undermines their position supporting the separatists in Eastern Ukraine.
Centre:
We ALL want to know why!
Would the pilots on the plane have known they had a missile coming towards them from their radar?
There are reports the separatists have stolen the black box recorder already so we might never know for sure.
[briefly
Posted Saturday, July 19, 2014 at 12:51 pm | PERMALINK
1701
citizen
The Chinese government position on condemnation of Putin is made clear in this People’s Daily article last night
A Chinese elision. They should insist on an investigation, along with everyone else.]
The article does refer to an international investigation and “While the two sides trade barbs over the incident, the top priority for now is to work together to determine the cause of the crash and find out the real culprits, if any, behind the incident.”
So they seem to be supporting an international investigation but are pushing against condemnation of Putin.
The Indonesian position is also cautious about condemning Putin
[President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono in a televised address from the State Palace on Friday lent his full support to an international investigation and emphasized that the downing of MH17 could turn out to be a violation of international law.
The president hinted that a war crime could have taken place.
However, Yudhoyono’s comments stopped short of the uncompromising language used by Australia’s prime minister.
Julian Aldrin Pasha, the presidential spokesman for foreign affairs, said that the incident wouldn’t affect the good relationship Indonesia has with Russia.]
http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/news/indonesia-opts-wait-see-approach-russia-mh17-australia-leads-outrage/
BK
“According to Laura Tingle, Abbott is looking at overseas candidates for the job – someone with no institutional memory. I kid you not.”
If true you won’t have to look further than some hack from the Boston Consulting Group.
Specialists in sellouts.
I stuffed that comment up @ 1709. The middle of that block quote contains what i wrote, not what briefly wrote.
“ReallY? Wow colour me surprised…
After an impartial investigation carried out by people who aren’t actually posting on this website then all of us will be in a better position to make judgements about who is responsible for what. And how much responsibility they bear.
If you really think I’m saying anything other than that please reread what i have said.”
That bit was what i wrote.
Sceptic @ 1715. That would be typical wouldn’t it.
Diogenes@1713
Possibly when it got close, but so what? There was nothing they could do about it.
Thee is no doubt it was shot down by a SAM.
sceptic@1715
Would that be the same Boston Consulting Group the Victorian Labor Government engaged to do a mental health policy?
[We ALL want to know why!]
Haven’t heard anyone ask the question 😈
Diogenes@1713
Actually the kindest thing would be if they and the passengers never knew what hit them.
[
Would the pilots on the plane have known they had a missile coming towards them from their radar?
There are reports the separatists have stolen the black box recorder already so we might never know for sure.
]
Diog
I heard one expert yesterday say the Pilots would not have had any idea a missile was coming. Apparently commercial airline radars are not designed to cope with that sort of projectile. I stand to be corrected of course.
@sceptic/1715
I wouldn’t be surprised either, after shoddy work in UK and Australia.
Centre:
I asked yesterday. One of the first things I wanted to know.
bemused and Cyril
I was hoping they wouldn’t have known it was coming.
bemused
Yes & so what is your point?
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/boston-spreads-its-advice-wider-with-secret-contracts/story-e6frg6n6-1225757256129
Regardless of which right wing sellout government employs BCG it’s still wrong.
They are doing the same thing in the UK.
BCG has links with Tony Blair to prove they are even handed at gaming the system.
connie
You are ahead of me. I did hear about the crash at 5.30am yesterday when checking overseas markets. I was busy yesterday and out last night.
Whoever are responsible are nuts!
Centre:
That was the first thing I wanted to know: who.
Diogenes@1725
The only thing I can think of that might have alerted them to something untoward is the collision avoidance technology I believe airliners have. But those missiles move very fast so if there was any warning period, it was probably very brief, so short they would not have had time to work out what was happening.
But I am no expert, just surmising on the basis of my limited pieces of information.
Hey ‘fess
Just returned from my first solo visit SOR…even worse drivers down there! 😛
If Putin is behind it, which he obviously appears to be, he would have a real hide to show himself at the G20.
I’d like to see Shorten seriously condemn Putin. He has to do it more than the Monkey.
sceptic@1726
My point was simply that governments of all persuasions use them.
They also use other consultancies such as KPMG, Deloites, Ernst and Young, Accenture and Price Waterhouse Coopers.
I suppose it is a natural consequence of stripping the public service of the necessary expertise.
Lao:
😆
When you say SOR, how far you talking about? Cause unless you got to Mandurah then you haven’t seen the worst of it!
[It’s eminently possibly – indeed there have been reports to this effect – that the equipment was either abandoned by the Ukranian government forces some time ago, or was captured by separatists. ]
Perhaps, BB. Certainly cant be ruled out. But I go back to my related point:
[The more they interfere in investigations the more their culpability ought be assumed.]
Its not a good sign. Worth keeping an eye on who’s interfering and who isnt.
‘fess
My goodness…do let me ease into it. Past Mandurah? Who knows what terrors would await me down there! No place for a still newbie Magi
No, beautiful downtown Cockburn Central is as far as I got 🙂
Centre@1731
Putin is obviously lending support to the separatists, but it is a bit of a stretch to then say he is responsible for a particular act such as this. Whatever he is, he is not stupid and would have been able to anticipate the damages something like this would do to the cause of the separatists and Russia.
I suspect we will find it was some rogue local commander or a freelancer.
Lao:
LOL. Obviously you’re not heading back to Sydney anytime soon then?
I don’t know if this has been posted before, but well worth a read.
Why Abbott’s promised bill savings are wrong
[The government has now toned down its claims about what were supposed to be “unimaginable” price impacts from the carbon tax. It now chooses to use the estimates of price impacts which the prior Labor Government used, based on Australian Treasury Department economic modelling. However the reality is that even the government’s more modest claim of a $200 average annual saving on households’ electricity bills from repealing the carbon tax is likely to be a major overestimate.]
My emphasis in the above.
‘fess
Parole is not on the near term horizon, no…
Anyway, nice “winter” day for a roofless drive (better than all the rain you have been getting)
Lao:
Perfect day here too.
We haven’t had a lot of rain this winter. It’s been pretty dry.
[ I heard one expert yesterday say the Pilots would not have had any idea a missile was coming. Apparently commercial airline radars are not designed to cope with that sort of projectile. I stand to be corrected of course.]
Commercial airliners actually have quite limited radars and generally nothing in the way of missile approach and warning (MAWS) equipment. The pilots would most likely have had no idea and certainly not the passengers.
I think there are some national carriers who have invested in missile countermeasures but systems that can be fitted to airliners are targeted at defense against IR/UV guided MANPADS. The kind of thing that could be popped off as an airliner is on approach or take off and at low level. The Australian DSTO has done quite a bit of work on lasers for this i think.
[ The only thing I can think of that might have alerted them to something untoward is the collision avoidance technology I believe airliners have. ]
I’m pretty sure that works on aircraft sharing transponder info. A standard airliner carries pretty much nothing that can detect something that doesn’t want to be detected or that isn’t screaming “here i am!!”.
Lao
Cockburn Central? Did you go in?
I took advantage of the sunshine yesterday for a run south on the freeway on my motorcycle. I get nervous down there, even driving past at 100km/h
Thomas Paine
A quick glance of the G-20 membership would show a list of countries that aren’t exactly aligned with Russia – and certainly not to the point of sacrificing their voice at a major economic summit.
If Russia was unwelcome at the G-20, there might be a couple of concerns brought up but none that would lead to anything remotely resembling a boycott.
I think Russia has more problems with their economy than their leader.
http://www.ibtimes.com/russian-economy-edge-recession-mh17-incident-wont-help-1633198
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-07-17/u-dot-s-dot-sanctions-finally-hit-russia-where-it-counts
rossmcg
Haha – its actually not that bad…I did indeed go in. Not sure I would make it a regular Saturday thing, but it’s OK. Not a great shopping centre. Some very “interesting” tattoos on display…
Deafening silence about Saudi Arabia who have been bankrolling ISIS and any number of jihadi terrorist groups. No probs with them being at the G20 eh Tony ?
imacca
Would the passenger planes have radar for weather and flocks of birds etc?
Lao
Tatts one of the things is was alluding to!
Could Newman unilaterally ban Putin from visiting Queensland or can’t states stop people from moving around once Australia accepts them?
Shorten is clearly giving Abbott the option of bilateral support for banning Putin if push comes to shove.
[“Labor is prepared to support the Government, and co-operate with the Prime Minister . . . whether or not that involves anything to do with the G20, we say to the Government – we will work with your measured approach,” he said.]