Perhaps to mark the first anniversary of the Rudd government, The Australian has come good a day early with the latest Newspoll. It finds Labor’s two-party lead steady on 55-45, from primary votes of 42 per cent for Labor (down two) and 38 per cent for the Coalition (steady). The Prime Minister’s personal ratings are his best since early May: his approval is up two points to 67 per cent, while his disapproval is down one point to 20 per cent. Rudd’s lead over Malcolm Turnbull as preferred prime minister is up two points to 42 per cent. However, 56 per cent of respondents said they would be “concerned” if the budget went into deficit.
UPDATE: Graphic here.
UPDATE 2: Essential Research has Labor’s lead at 56-44, up from 55-45 last week. Also included are leadership approval and preferred prime minister ratings and, interestingly, retrospective evaluation of John Howard, whose prime ministership is rated above average by 47 per cent of respondents and below average by 24 per cent.
[ Centre but both policies worked…you cannot argue with that. ]
Glen = so now you say the end justify the means ?
[Centre but both policies worked…you cannot argue with that.]
Wtf, of course you can.
There’s thousands of economic arguments against the GST, whether one personally agrees with it or not, and there are a number of reasons Howard’s immigration policy was a piece of crap. I’ll let others do the hard work, but don’t just say “You can’t argue with it”, because you’re going to get pulled up.
[Centre but both policies worked…you cannot argue with that.
They might not have been perfect but what tough ones ever are.]
Yeah but you have completely missed the point Glen. The Pacific lack of solution cost over $1 billion, but 85% of the people aboard the Tampa are now living in Australia!
So this “those people will never set foot in Australia” ethos was just a complete FRAUD, a vast majority of ‘those people’ are now living in Australia, and are now Australians!
[Centre but both policies worked…you cannot argue with that.
They might not have been perfect but what tough ones ever are.]
Worked? Yeah as Howard said in the program “the sense was that boats were arriving willy nilly”. Yep “the sense” is more important than “the facts”.
Would it have cost $1b to process them in Australia?
It didnt ‘work’ at all. Operation Relex merely delayed entry at GIGANTIC expense to the OZ taxpayer – they all came here in the end, on refugee visas. All of em! Except the ten NZ took.
Refugee flows slowed through the whole SE Asian region after 2001 – because the Taliban regime was felled. Had very little to do with domestic amendments to Australian refugee law.
dave Rudd has just given billions of dollars to a failing auto industry but unlike that Howard’s pacific solution worked = no more boat people, Rudd’s car industry policy = still failing car industry.
[ The Pacific lack of solution cost over $1 billion, but 85% of the people aboard the Tampa are now living in Australia! ]
Add to that the capex of building the “facilities” on christmas island port augusta etc etc.
Where were the journos when all of this was going on – were they asleep.
Why arn’t they asking questions NOW ??
re 147. C’mon Glen. Ok, you can play wedge politics but $1 Billion. If it was Labor the MSM would have crucified them.
$1 Billion. Disgusting. I wonder how much Howard has blown on boat people, wars and government advertising in his time of office? Maybe Fran will tell us? I wont hold my breath!
[Rudd’s car industry policy = still failing car industry.]
What in the last 2 weeks?? Geez, I do like how you give Rudd plenty of time to succeed.
Lefty e how many refugees came before Tampa and how many came after it…net drop thus the policy worked.
ShowsOn and the rest of you fail to realise that we no longer have the boat people problem we had before Tampa and Howard fixed the issue almost completely.
[ Rudd has just given billions of dollars to a failing auto industry]
Glen – you are WAY out of line, fella !
The Billions the fibs have spent on business welfare – not onty the car industry are matters of public record. Just go look at historical records – your lot were there 12 years they spent BILLIONS on same.
re 156. Glen the money will keep people in jobs in an economic downturn. It is not wasted to win Rudd the election like on the Tampa for Howard.
Yes but unlike Labor we didnt run up 96b in debt so we could actually afford it!
What you fail to realise is that while we did prop up the auto industry we never did it to the extent Rudd is and we never propped up Ansett…nuff said!
[the boat people problem we had before Tampa ]
Yeah we were so swamped. Any numbers to back up how big a problem it was?
[ShowsOn and the rest of you fail to realise that we no longer have the boat people problem we had before Tampa and Howard fixed the issue almost completely.]
Oh dear. There have been 3 in the last 6 months!
The Tampa was a boat in distress in international waters. It had every right according to International Law to go to the nearest port, which was Christmas Island.
Why is it that liberal hacks like to pretend that Australia is the only country int he world? Why is it that Liberals couldn’t care less about a billion dollars pissed away on nothing?
[Yes but unlike Labor we didnt run up 96b in debt so we could actually afford it!]
Debt as a percentage of GDP was lower in 1996 than in 1983.
They were on their way to Indonesia the boat peoples boat came from Indonesia thus the Tampa should have taken them to Indonesia!
It was 1b and the policy was a success…no more boat people we won!
[while we did prop up the auto industry we never did it to the extent Rudd is and we never propped up Ansett…nuff said!]
love them apples and oranges.
You’re comparing a whole industry with an airline?
And you do realise much of the Rudd plan is contingent on the industry spedning money first – they don’t the Govt doesn’t. It ain’t a grant.
It was an industry…you had Compass fail and then Ansett it was big.
GROG
You were very gracous to JG regarding th Trig perplex
I was less so , but irrespective a view was put of human error that won’t be forgot
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/jonathan/2008/11/24/the-trig-perplex/
[Yes but unlike Labor we didnt run up 96b in debt so we could actually afford it!]
What you did do is WASTE $85 b in windfall mineral boom income . Waste it
[What you fail to realise is that while we did prop up the auto industry we never did it to the extent Rudd is and we never propped up Ansett]
No but you did prop up stan howard and re- define moral risk. The PMs brothers company HAS to be supported – everyone else go jump !
[no more boat people we won!]
Thank you for succinctly pointing out everything that was wrong with the policy.
Us and then.
Re 155
There was another reason why the boats stopped coming. Money was paid to informers in Indonesia who would advise of boats leaving. Both Indonesian and Australian authorities worked together to stop the boats leaving for Australia. Methinks Indonesia was promised something in return.
We never wasted any money…most of that money was given back to Australians in tax cuts.
Glen, bugger all asylum seekers came before the Tampa, and bugger all came afterwards.
In the entire 11-year period from 1990-2001 the sum total of asylum seekers arriving by boat was 12,000 people.
Thats less that one year’s offshore refugee quota in this country.
You were duped mate.
The rodent years have more stench with every episode that is screened.
[We never wasted any money…most of that money was given back to Australians in tax cuts.]
Incorrect. Most was spent on middle class welfare.
[ We never wasted any money…most of that money was given back to Australians in tax cuts.]
YOU withdrew funding from australian hospitals, public schools and universities.
It is a matter of public record. YOU broke the deal on hospital funding – that cannot be forgiven.
170. Yeah Ron, I was feeling gracious. But it won’t be a 3 strikes and you’re out thing.
I think Green was dumb rather than purposefully cruel. Maybe I’m being naive or too soft a touch.
Yeah perhaps he didn’t need to mention the right wing blogger bit, but I focussed more on the:
[We deserve our lumps here. There was no redeeming – or even comic – feature to what is just a dumb slur on an innocent child. … . But what can you say when you’re so obviously in the wrong. Other than “I was wrong.” Which I was.]
it was a dumb slur. It was wrong. He admits it, doesn’t try to say “oh it was just a joke” or “we didn’t think it would cause offence”. Rather the sense I got from Green’s words were an acknowledgement that they didn’t think at all.
Let’s hope he does do so in the future.
I guess the main reaosn I was happy to forgive, is to be honest, I don’t like being angry. Which is why I try to avoid reading certain blogs on news.com.au. When I do I invariably get worked up over things and people who will never acknowledge an offense may have been given (unintentional or not). I like seeing Green acknowledge his error.
I also know I’ve done dumb things; and sometimes I’ve been too pigheaded to acknowledge I was wrong.
re 174. Glen of course the money was wasted. Just think, even more could have been given in tax cuts by raising the threshold of the top marginal rate? Let alone really putting it to good use like on infrastructure and hospitals.
[Lefty e how many refugees came before Tampa and how many came after it…net drop thus the policy worked.]
Oh look, I went and got the Vaseline and Leigh Sales came on TV! Her unlikely appearance on Monday night’s Lateline is clearly a result of me getting the petroleum jelly.
By the way, what exactly do you see wrong with refugees coming to this country? You do know that it’s impossible for them to come illegally?
Treasurer Howard had one surplus budget and 4 deficit ones. Not all that $96bn was Labor’s. All the deficits, all the debt, came from budgets in recession years.
And $390Bn was wasted by PM Howard.
The smugness of rodent is still there. He is banished disgraced. party in the wildness and without prospect. and still a smug rodent.
Readers are advised that I have made a new addition to my comment moderation guidelines – Article 9. It covers references to politicians as rodents, and is effective henceforth.
Middle class welfare is going to be a long lasting problem left behind by the ‘Howard Years’. A whole mass of people who now expect money to be sloshed into their wallets and purses, right at the time when we will need to be cutting back significantly. It will be an issue because it is so politically charged and people have come to rely on those variety of payments.
My husband and I are expecting a baby – we will not be receiving the baby bonus. We missed out on the first home owners grant by 12 months. We have nothing to complain about as we are in a comfortable position and haven’t over-leveraged ourselves. But I read on parent forums a large number of people who are now complaining that they will not be receiving bonus payments and they are getting antsy about it. It could be a vote changer.
What a great legacy to leave – a whole generation of people who now expect governments to lavish cash on them when they don’t really need it, whilst begrudging those who genuinely need welfare due to unemployment, mental health issues, and lack of education. World class effort there, Liberal Party.
Well there’s no point coming here anymore.
GROG
#179
I agree with your comments entirely Although as you say “Yeah perhaps he didn’t need to mention the right wing blogger bit” , so i just wanted on principal to highlight that , and therefore th concern neeeded focus on big issue minus that
.
Also figured if I’m gonna get banned , it may as well be by unanimous agreemnt of all Crikey management
lefty e @ 175
Glen, bugger all asylum seekers came before the Tampa, and bugger all came afterwards.
In the entire 11-year period from 1990-2001 the sum total of asylum seekers arriving by boat was 12,000 people.
Yet at around the same time about 60,000 true illegal immigrants were coming here annually without the government caring or doing a thing about it. On their own figures by late 2003 there were nearly 250,000 of them.
The difference? They flew in on tourist visas and they were mostly Europeans and Americans. In other words, the immigration policy wasn’t driven by illegality – seeking refuge isn’t illegal, overstaying your visa is – but racism.
As for the 12,000 figure. Thats about how many Kiwis arrive here on one way tickets every fortnight.
re 182. $390 Billion was wasted by the Howard government. That means that our 08 surplus should have been $410 Billion. $410 Billion would have certainly been enough to guarantee that we avoid a recession in difficult times. So it’s true, Howard failed to manage the economy in good times for the bad.
187 ron I added a comment on Green’s blog re your comment.
You’re right, but as (I think it was) GP said on the previous post, there’s not much point me denying my fun on PB, so that’s also why I came back from my whole day of protest 🙂 Also not sure if William is on a hit count payment, but if so, I wouldn’t want to cost him because of what he had no power over.
[That means that our 08 surplus should have been $410 Billion.]
err not sure if thast really holds up! I think it means $390b should have been spent on infrastructure etc rather than middle-class welfare.
William,
I support the general intent of the ruling and can’t tolerate the undergraduate behaviour of those who use stupid nicknames for politicians (a la Crikey’s Krudd) but I make an exception for “lying ro***nt”. So would “rat” be OK?
[As for the 12,000 figure. Thats about how many Kiwis arrive here on one way tickets every fortnight.]
I won’t be surprised if that number rises once the harsh economic medicine spooned out by the conservative ex-merchant banker-led government starts to gripe at people’s wages and standard of living.
[but I make an exception for “lying ro***nt”. So would “rat” be OK?]
Rat is out of bounds.
“Former Member for Bennelong” is fine.
I get the feeling that there will be a lot of references to the Carrier of the Black Plague on this blog in future….
I wish journalists would stop trying to get politicians to say “deficit”.
“Why is the government so opposed to deficits?” Leigh asks.
Because you journalists, in your desperate attempt for a “gotcha” moment have made deficits and the like to be some kind of satanic tool and you guys are the ones that have enormous influence.
Leigh should have given up on it some time ago. Tanner is absolutely hammering her.
Recalling when Keating referred to Howard as “the greatest job and investment destroyer since the Bubonic Plague”. LOL!
And the latest “smear”, from the Fibs.
http://www.ruddshop.com/
William, as you would be aware, I refer to those in the political realm by their actual names. What if, in a moment of outrage, we swear at someone, or do something just stupid like Jonathon G. and First Dog? Interesting, n’est pas?
Grog IF Howard wasted $390 Billion, that means waste for no economic benefit (such as on boat people), you could add that to this years budget surplus.