The September 6 by-elections for Mayo and Lyne initially loomed as fizzers, with Labor showing no inclination post-Gippsland to test the waters in unwinnable seats. They have instead respectively emerged as mildly and enormously interesting, thanks to the entry of non-major party players. In Mayo, housing tycoon Bob Day will bring a cashed-up campaign to bear against the Liberals as the candidate of Family First, having failed to win Liberal preselection for Mayo after unsuccessfully contesting Makin last year. Day would nonetheless have to be considered a long shot against Liberal candidate Jamie Briggs, but it’s a very different story in Lyne where independent state MP Rob Oakeshott has been rated the “clear favourite” by Antony Green. Imre Salusinszky of The Australian reports that Nationals polling puts his approval rating in the electorate at over 70 per cent, and says the party is concerned Labor will “direct resources to Mr Oakeshott’s campaign”.
Lyne covers a 100 kilometre stretch of coastline up to 400 kilometres north of Sydney, the main population centres being Port Macquarie (home to 33 per cent of the electorate’s population) and Taree (14 per cent). Smaller centres include Old Bar, Lake Cathie and Harrington on the coast, and Wauchope and Wingham further inland. The National/Country Party has held the seat since its creation in 1949. The electorate covers the entirety of Oakeshott’s state seat of Port Macquarie, which provides Lyne with 55 per cent of its voters. Oakeshott won Port Macquarie as the Nationals candidate at a 1996 by-election ahead of independent John Barrett, who had come within 233 votes of defeating Mark Vaile as Liberal candidate for Lyne in 1993. He was promoted to the front bench after the 1999 election, taking the sport and recreation, fisheries and ports portfolios. In March 2002 he quit the party, claiming its local branches were controlled by property developers and questioning whether the party was still relevant to an electorate transformed by tourism and demographic change. The Nationals campaigned aggressively against him during the 2003 campaign, in particular over his support for drug law reform, but he was overwhelmingly re-elected with 69.7 per cent of the primary vote. This fell slightly to 67.1 per cent at the March 2007 election, his two-candidate preferred margin down from 32.8 per cent to a still formidable 28.2 per cent.
The Nationals candidate is Rob Drew, who was mayor of Port Macquarie until the council was sacked by the state government in February. The Macleay Argus reports he won a preselection vote ahead of Taree solicitor Quentin Schneider by 48 votes to 15. State party leader Andrew Stoner was reportedly urged by “senior colleagues” to throw his hat into the ring, but perhaps sensibly decided to stay put. The prospect of an Oakeshott candidacy was a cloud on the horizon from the time of Vaile’s departure, with Oakeshott earlier threatening to run against Vaile at the 2004 election. There has also been intermittent speculation over the years that he might be enlisted by the Liberals, although this might never have been more than wishful thinking by the party. Most recently, powerbrokers including Senator Bill Heffernan approached him to contest the by-election as the Liberal candidate, hoping that his success might push the Coalition further along the road to a merger. The party has instead opted to sit out the contest, aware that its presence would only increase the already high likelihood of an Oakeshott victory.
The other thing to be noted is that win, lose or draw, Oakeshott’s candidacy will initiate a state by-election for Port Macquarie – though that is a subject for another post. While it would be open to Oakeshott to re-contest Port Macquarie, owing to what Imre Salusinszky calls “a quirk in NSW electoral law”, Oakeshott has declared that such a move would be “unfair to the community”.
Greeensborough Growler
Now your confused. So once again.
Just for you.
1. Alarmist = Personal who believes in man made global warming.
2. Denialist = A person who still retains and open mide and finds it difficult
to believe thaty hypothesis now that the latest satelite figurs show the
Why do you think it necessary to introduce a regressive taxation system on the population. A Tax system that both sides of parliament agree will achieve nothing but do enormous damage ?
I understand the brainwashing and indoctrination you have been experiencing.
One only has to listed to the radio and watch the TV to see millions of dollars of propaganda(tax payer funded of course) being aimed at the population.
Greeensborough Growler
Now your confused. So once again.
Just for you.
1. Alarmist = Personal who believes in man made global warming.
2. Denialist = A person who still retains and open mide and finds it difficult
to believe thaty hypothesis now that the latest satelite figurs show the
Why do you think it necessary to introduce a regressive taxation system on the population. A Tax system that both sides of parliament agree will achieve nothing but do enormous damage ?
I understand the brainwashing and indoctrination you have been experiencing.
One only has to listed to the radio and watch the TV to see millions of dollars of propaganda(tax payer funded of course) being aimed at the population.
Greeensborough Growler
Sorry bumped the space bar….
1. Alarmist = Personal who believes in man made global warming.
2. Denialist = A person who still retains and open minf and finds it difficult
to believe that hypothesis, now that the latest satelite figures show the world is
has been cooling.
Ziggy
An interesting turn in today’s TV ads
1. Nationals: negative ad attacking Oakeshott’s support for electricity privatisation ( I don’t think this is his actual position) and is therefore a Labor puppet. The day after the State Nationals broke with the Liberals to say they will oppose privatisation in tomorrow’s vote
2. Oakeshott: Endoresment from Tony Windsor, showing how much an independent has gained for the New England electorate
Cheers gusface – I imagine you’re also familiar with our glorious Treasurer. 😀
On Port Mac – it will be the various disaffected independents, Nats and Greens, and probably the same candidates from other parties (the dreaded DLP etc) as well. Nats to win, at this stage, barring astonishing shift in political fortune (or Oakeshott’s loss federally, in which case he’ll return to his old ‘country’).
The small rural booths throughout Lyne and the booths in Taree will be the key to the result of the Lyne by-election. The so-called favourite Oakeshott has a high profile in Port Macquarie but struggles in the other parts of Lyne including Taree and the coastal farmland belt up towards Port Macquarie. The selection of High profile Former Port Macquarie Mayor Rob Drew as the Nationals candidate could split the Port Macquarie vote 50/50, With a week and a half to go it looks like the Nationals will pick up the remaining undecided vote in the key rural parts of the electorate and Taree itself. As i’ve said before during this thread the Nationals should hold Lyne.
Josh
my father in law lives taree (near racecourse).
old school 10 pd pom,always been a fib/nat leaning voter.respects tony w. a lot for his stands on issues,he said he would miss vaille but the windsor endorsement will help mr O for sure.
re costa-besides being a goose sometimes and not admitting it ie CC,i would prefer him to who???? ever the state fibs had.
that said state labor needs to redress some serious institutional malpractices and regain its political “mojo”
Paul,
The small rural booths won’t make a pinch of difference (apart from the fact that they’re small). Oakeshott won more than 50% of the primary vote in every booth in the State election including the small rural booths of Hannam Vale, Johns River, Moorland and Lansdowne – all of which are actually part of the Taree and Manning River economy and community rather than Port Macquarie and the Hastings River community.
There is absolutely no evidence anywhere that Oakeshott struggles in Taree – far from it. Apart from those 4 mentioned typical rural booths that are actually part of the Taree economy (and where Rob O got 56%, 53%, 70% and 76% of the Primary vote respectively – not TPP, but Primary), there’s also semi-rural and coastal booths of Harrington where he got 76% and Coopernook where he got 77% – both integral parts of the wider Taree area.
In fact – the closer the booth was to Taree, the higher his primary vote went.
Far from Oakeshott struggling in those areas – the opposite seems to be the case. Add to the fact that Taree itself is the largest ALP voting area and Labor won’t be running a candidate, Oakeshott is virtually guaranteed to win the Taree booths in primary votes alone (like pretty much everywhere else in the electorate – except Elands where the Greens will win).
Rob Drew’s “high profile” comes from being the mayor of a Council sacked for financial incompetence. By standing Drew as a candidate, the Nationals will likely score their lowest ever vote in non-Port Macquarie booths in the Hastings Valley, where everyone not from Port thinks the Glasshouse should be dismantled and slowly rammed piece by piece up the the rectums of the sacked councilors, while saving the especially pointy bits for the ex-Mayor himself.
So the Nats have lost every booth in Lyne that sits in the State seat of Port Macquarie, the closer the booths were to Taree at the State election the higher Oakeshotts vote was, there are very few booths to the South of Taree apart from Old Bar (and the Nats only win that by 51% TPP in federal elections – so they arent going to win it this time), the booths around Wingham have voted for any conservative but National in droves whenever given a chance (1993 for the Libs and 1998 for One Nation) – so where is this mythical vote going to come from?
Comboyne?
All 280 of them?
The only way the Nats can win is if Oakeshott gets abducted by aliens.
Oh, and should add – the Greens might come close to winning in Mt George, with its 220 odd votes.
And thinking about it even further, the Greens should probably man the Crescent Head booths more than usual to boot.
re: midnorthcoast @ #204
Sounds like the Nationals have confused themselves.
At the 1999 state election the Liberal/National coalition had a policy of full electricity privatisation. As an endorsed National Party candidate at that election, Rob Oakeshott would have supported the National Party policy.
So, using National Party logic, Rob Oakeshott is a Labor puppet because he supported National Party policy when he was a National Party candidate.
I guess that means Rob Drew is also a Labor puppet, unless he has renounced support for all National Party policies.
Josh WK:
“Our society would be under threat of extinction if we allowed equal representation of women and men” (sarcasm assumed)
I threw the “equal representation of women and men” policy into my earlier post as equal representation is not consistent with the “best person for the job”, and makes no sense as a blanket policy.
Equal pay for a man & woman doing the same job; no problem, why not. Two to one ratio of women to men in a field; no problem, why not, as long as the best person does the job. Anything else is just “jobs for the boys”, or girls, or members of whatever particular club, minority group or disaffected party is doing the lobbying..
“dreaded DLP” @ 205? Is that a sense of fear & trembling I detect? 🙂
Ziggy in one of his earlier posts had an invalid link regarding “green” opposition to the dreaded (yes, dreaded) carbon trading. I doubt that anyone bothered to actually follow through and read it as (and I do guess), most here will happily shoot the messenger and ignore the message to boot.
Nevertheless, it is worth a look:
The case against carbon trading:
http://risingtide.org.uk/resources/factsheets
As an incentive to students, the same site will probably have some material you can use against Ziggy!
Still not quite there,drilling down one level from above …. here it is:
http://risingtide.org.uk/resources/factsheets/carbontrading
Wish there was a preview mode when posting!
Agree with Possum. I initially thought Oakeshott might suffer by not having a big profile in the town areas of Taree. However, he currently represents and does well in areas approaching Taree and before the 2006 election he did well in Wingham which was then part of the PMQ electorate. However, the selection of Drew means that a National with a much lower and largely negative profile will be his opponent in Taree.
There are plenty of small rural booths in Lyne but their component of the total is low and they will not save Drew, particularly as he is from the white shoe wing of the party. The New Country Party did well in those booths in 2004 and the late and highly respected Dr Pat Stevens did well there in 2001 despite being a godless socialist (ALP), largely because he was born west of Wingham.
I think many in PMQ would also like to insert the Glasshouse in Drew’s orifices
Possum
I agree with your summary 100% re Oakshot.
I was a resident of Taree when Oashot was first elected as an Independent Member in Port Macquarrie.
Oakshot was the topic on everybodys lips at Taree at that time.
Most of my work mates were his supporters, with window stickers etc, and some manned polling booths.
I dont recall any other candidates name being mentioned at work, or in the Pubs or on the street of Taree, at the time.
So I suggest Oakshot is a shoo-inn, unless something drastic happens.
So the only interest is in how the other parties perform.
The Nationals will poll well, but a lot of their voters will vote for Oakshot.
The other interests are the Green and DLP votes.
Yes the Greens will win in Elands, but will struggle in other rural areas, and in Taree itself.
The interest will be can he DLP pick up any of the ALP vote in Taree.
My guess is they will pick up enough of the votes to establish themselves as a force in the electorate in the future.
I expect a 4/5% pimary vote for the DLP.
They will pick up some preferences, and fnish up the table, probally 3rd or 4th. Enough to make people sit up and take notic of them. but not enough to even come close to winning
Midnorthcoast,
I also agree with most of yr post.
Also believe that a lot of the ALP voters that voted for “late and highly respected Dr Pat Stevens”, will transfer to the DLP.
Dr. Stevens was highly respected in the Catholic community, and also the wider community. I epect these voters will transfer to the DLP
Goanna, even if I accept any of that, how are the church-going ALP-voting Catholics of Taree going to know that there is a DLP candidate? What the DLP stands for? That this DLP is in fact ALP-friendly as distinct from their last interactions of the DLP? Are the priests telling the congregations?
Fighting an election is more than paying your deposit and sticking a label on the ballot. For a start you need a candidate who has actually visited the electorate. Many candidates get 1-2% of the vote but is this a real intention or is it a random vote akin to a donkey vote? I get the impression that you think Michael O’Donohue’s vote will be high he will be confused with the ALP but if the voter is that ill-informed/disengaged he/she is just as likely not to vote or just vote randomly
Dear Mid North Coast,
I wanted to respond to some of your comments. I agree whole heartedly that there is more to running than simply putting on a coat and tie and saying “me too”. You need to clearly differentiate yourself from the rest of the field, so as to give electors a real reason to vote D.L.P. So I have included the following policy statement:
The Democratic Labor Party – D.L.P. has returned to Australian politics. At the 2007 Federal Election, we contested the Senate in all six states for the first time in decades. We received more than 50,000 votes in N.S.W. The D.L.P. is contesting the Federal by-election of Lyne and we need your support.
The D.L.P. stands for Australian Workers, Australian Families, and Australian Values. No more privatisation and no so called “Guest Worker” programs. We will keep public infrastructure public and we will maintain our public infrastructure to the standard that is expected by Australians.
The D.L.P. is opposed to any further privatisation in this country – especially the A.L.P. State Government’s proposed plan to privatise the power industry. The pro privatisation forces within both the major parties are threatening to sell off every single piece of infrastructure this country owns.
The D.L.P. is also opposed to any of the so called “Guest Worker” programs that are being championed by the Nationals and currently trialled by the A.L.P. Federal Government. These programs must be stopped before they take root in Australian soil.
The Lyne Federal by-election is your opportunity to say no to the privatisation of public infrastructure. The Lyne Federal by-election is your chance to say no to the so called “Guest Worker” programs. Put Australia first. Put Australians first. Vote for the D.L.P. at the Lyne by-election.
Yours truly,
Michael O’Donohue
D.L.P. – Democratic Labor Party
P.S. I am 34 years old.
Welcome to the fray Mr O’Donohue!
Some seem to have the idea that the DLP is for old blokes living in the past.
I trust that won’t be you and wish you every success.
Where do you live?
Why won’t you come to the candidate night?
Soylent:
We dont have to bow to these greenies.
We dont have to subscibe to a 2 Party Policy. The DLP is back and is the only party that has the Australian Traditional christian values built into it’s constitution.
Lets stop the carbon tax that will destroy this nation and rural commuities forever.
Whats happening elsewhere.
<a href= http://www.watoday.com.au/national/new-order-in-the-house-20080823-40y3.html?page=6
Go the DLP …………The Only real Alternative
Or as Michael says….. A Better way than Cargon Taxing.
Ziggy
Dear Mid North Coast,
I assume that this question has been asked in good faith and so I will try to answer in good faith. My residential address has been a matter of public record since the nominations were declared on Friday the 15th of August and has been readily available on the A.E.C. website continuously and still is. I am currently residing in Warabrook which is a suburb in Newcastle. I have travelled widely, working as a secondary school teacher. The last location in which I worked was the Northern Territory, but I have spent most of my life in N.S.W. Please note that this is a Federal byelection, not a local government election (which does have residential restrictions), and so it should be about big issues, up to and including foreign policy. If I should be so blessed as to win the byelection, I would be overjoyed at the prospect of living in Lyne.
Regards
Michael O’Donohue – D.L.P. Candidate for Lyne
P.S. I have answered every email and email invitation I have received.
My email address is also a matter of public record.
dlpfornsw@hotmail.com
Can the newly resurgent DLP not find some youngster who lives with his potential constituents (this is a much more important factor in regional rather than metropolitan areas)
Dear Mid North Coast,
I have answered some of your questions, now perhaps you might be kind enough to reciprocate. How do you justify further privatisation? In particular, the proposed privatisation of the N.S.W. power industry.
Regards
Michael O’Donohue
D.L.P. Candidate for Lyne
Dear Mid North Coast,
And do you have anything to say about the so called “Guest Worker” programs?
This may become a very pressing “regional” issue – as you put it.
Regards
Michael O’Donohue
D.L.P. Candidate for Lyne
Hey, you are the one standing for parliament and I am probably the only person on this forum capable of voting for you. Your policies are so brilliant that I was going to volunteer to hand out your HTVs but If you take that attitude you can forget it.
Dear Mid North Coast,
If you or any others would like to assist with the D.L.P. campaign, please contact me via my email address: dlpfornsw@hotmail.com or you can phone me on 0412 634 203
I would be more than happy to discuss the matter further over the phone. I have genuinely attempted to keep all my posts positive and focussed on policy.
Regards
Michael O’Donohue
D.L.P. Candidate for Lyne
midnorthcoast:
You might want to join or head up the local branch
Join resurgence
Ziggy
O’Donohue: your email address looks more like a general address the state office of the party would have (not to mention that it’s a Hotmail address)… surely you rate an odonohue @ dlp.org.au or something. Is there more than one DLP member in NSW, or are you it?
Also, the DLP website (apart from being quite badly designed) doesn’t mention either you or the Lyne by-election anywhere. Why so? It’s linked in your posts, I follow it and see nothing.
If i still lived in Taree i would be happy to join the local branch, and assist the DLP to reestablish itself as a force in the electorate.
Maybe you could entice Mark Vaile to join.
He could use his knowledge and influence to help steer the party in the right direction in the area.
I know his best wishes are behind the DLP, but of course he can not come out publically and endorse the DLP candidate
“Australian Traditional christian values built into it’s constitution.”
Just what are these ATCs?
Bird of paradox:
“your email address looks more like a general address”
My, that was cutting critique, though not in the spirit of political discussion! 🙂
Solyent
Bird is getting desperate to find something to attack the DLP about and the best she can come up with is to criticise the candidates Email address.
That says that the DLP is definately going in the right direction and promoting good policies that are in t he best interests of all australia.
Now if the candidate can only come up with a better Email address he is ‘home and hosed’. !!!!!!
thanks for the vote of confidence Bird.
Dear Mid North Coast,
There seems to be something of a preoccupation with party size (and other paraphernalia) rather than party policy. You don’t join a political party because it is big or because it is small. You join a political party because you believe in its constitution, its principles and its policies. You join a political party because you love what it represents. Similarly, when it comes to casting your vote – you vote for the party and policies that you believe in. Another reason why I am running for the D.L.P. in Lyne is because of the D.L.P. supporters whom I have met and befriended along the way. These individuals represent what I love most about Australia. Many of them are older Australians who have lived quite selfless lives and wish to live in an Australia with values and institutions that are not completely alien to the ones they grew up with. I find that I share the cares and concerns of these men and women. I have also found myself inspired and enthused by their generosity of spirit and their kind heartedness and their sense of decency. These are the Australians that I aspire to represent. Since the 2007 Federal Election we know for a fact that there are more than 1,000 electors in Lyne who are prepared to vote D.L.P. We want to give them and every other elector the opportunity to vote D.L.P. again.
Regards
Michael O’Donohue
D.L.P. Candidate for Lyne
Mr O’Donohue,
Do you agree with the alarmist ratbags suporting you on this blog regarding Climate Change?
Greeensborough Growler :
Not climate change. Carbon Tax.
Ziggy
Mr O’Donohue:
“P.S. I am 34 years old.”
So am I, but that’s no excuse.
Living in Newcastle but standing for Lyne? What do you actually know about the electorate?
No offence – but most of the community will know you’re a blow in, and not take very kindly too it.
If the DLP were serious – and I am starting to have my doubts – they would have selected a local candidate.Local recognition, local roots, local experience counts for everything in rural seats.
For instance, what would you do if elected to deal with the mouths of the Manning?
As for the “guest worker” program – do you like fruit rotting on the trees because it cant be harvested to be brought to market (and in the process endangering the economic viability of some regional communities)?
What would you suggest is the solution to a tight labour market allowing labour flow to it’s highest value uses in a boom, and leaving industries like horticulture that are ordinarily cost sustainable over the cycle, being put in long term danger because of short to medium term labour shortages?
And why do you believe in big government on the one hand, but then government just small enough to fit through the bedroom window on the other?
And I’m asking this as someone that spent the first 20 years of their life in the Manning Valley, has most of my family there and will undoubtedly move back there in the future.
And another question to Mr O’Donohue
If the DLP were really concerned about the costs of an emissions trading system in rural and regional Australia, why have we not heard a peep out of them about the potential for carbon abatement and carbon credit creation schemes in regional Australia? While you may well not believe in AGW (and I really care not if you do or don’t) – the fact that the world is moving down that path for risk management reasons alone makes the position of the DLP somewhat politically juvenile.
If the DLP actually gave three fifths of five eights of sweet FA concern about the costs of an ETS on rural and regional Australia, they would be doing more than their best imitation of Nancy Reagan just saying no… if you get my drift.
POSSUM COMITATUS:
I think michael and the team in Nsw are doing far more than their share.
Personally I think they are giving 8 eights of an effort. Unlike the major parties they are funding this from their own pockets. Michael has a family and is also a contract teacher. He comes from a rural background and loves Nsw and the areas in lyne.
He is not a wealthy man, in fact most of the DLP team are from working class with a love for their country and their state and fund most of their campaigns from thier own pockets.
I am from Queensland and am trying to get stickers etc made up for transport drivers who work our of Port Macquarie and Taree who have come north for work and cant always make it home on weekends because of fuel cost. They like most regional small businesses are well aware of the pending danger of the ETS.
Think about it… Brokers are already cashing in on hard working locals with fuel.
(Arabs sell it for $80 and the singapore price is $147) who is making the money.
Certainly not their locally owned transport companies who cant even make it home some weekends.
They are all concerned about the ETS and my only hope is that I can get them printed before September 6th. I think its an honour to know michael who is and will be campaigning on foot around Port Macquarie on Saturday and Sunday.
If you would like to help michael and his team please dont hesitate to contact him by phone. We are all doing this out of love for our country and our belief in decentralisation of which the ETS will destroy.
The ETS is a regressive Tax. (That means it takes from the poor to give to the rich) the poor include consumers (you) and regional small businesses & farmers,
to give to the rich (the emitters & poluters).
This is just another GST in the form of Carbon, Which also has the potential to control everything we do in life right down to how many children we can have.
I’ll leave you with this link.
<a href = http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23358915-7583,00.html
Ziggy
Bird of paradox
I have designed a new website design with all states having their own page on local and state issues. They should be running by the next general election.
As I have said before we are all volunteers (and our members fund everything) that love this country (Unlike the corporations that run the majors).
Ask anyone in the ALP or the Liberal party whether they feel part of the party process.
Its a sad world if marketing and presentation overides principles and policies.
Should you wish to lend a hand in the campaign or donate please dont hesitate to contact michael by phone or email.
Ziggy
Ziggy,
So now you agree with CC, but don’t want to do anything about it.
Squirrells are you.
Ziggy,
Michael could be St. Michael – but if he’s not a local, it will matter in a place like Lyne – regardless if in an ideal world it ought to or not. Personally I come down on the side of it ought to being a matter of import… but that’s just me.
If the Transport workers are concerned they should unionise. They’ve been ripped off for donkeys and have never organised to act in concert to raise their incomes. An ETS will increase the price of their inputs, which they are fully within their rights pass on. If the Transport workers got their act together, they would be one of the least affected industries in terms of price absorption.
We dont actually know the incidence of an ETS. We dont know who it hits, where and how because it hasnt actually been designed yet. Because of it’s complexity (in terms of how it operates, who it hits, at what cost – as well as the lack of any indication of whether there will be any carbon credit creation opportunities built into the system) – waxing lyrical on an ETS being Teh End of Teh World is just political posturing. (and look, I appreciate that such posturing is what happens in an election – but this is Pollbludger – we know how these things work around here
)
Possum Comitatus
I was brought up in the country and as my father and probably your father said you’ve got a brain (Girley or sony jim) so use it.
Here’s another link from the ALP side that supports it.
The TWU treats us as the little brother. They wont help the contractors or small businesses any support and they treat the DLP as the poor cousin.
ETS’s are already running around the world and we know exactly who they’ll hit.
The sad part is though that both sides of government agree that it will achieve nothing at all.
Ziggy
Ziggy – we wont really know what the ETS will be until:
1. The Treasury modeling is released.
Which then starts
2. The horsetrading that will take a fair while to finish.
12 months at least. Until then, everything said about the consequences of an ETS is mostly the gun of political rhetoric firing copious quantities of blanks.
Possum Comitatus:
“Possum Comitatus Says:
“If the Transport workers got their act together, they would be one of the least affected industries in terms of price absorption.”
Possum Comitatus
lets face it the TWU has sold out to the corporate ALP. They wont back the workers because they are using the union as a career move. (into the ALP)
You only have to look at the last election to see that. (thats why membership is falling).
The DLP hasn’t had an influence in the unions since 1984.
We normally get on well in regional centres because of our decentralisation policies that are similar to the Nationals.
On the ETS though we Stand Alone. Thats okay because the DLP stand on principle and we will fight this one out till the end. (even if it costs me everthing)
I love this country and and will not stand by and allow a carbon trading scheme which will take away the free will of all people whether they be country or city.
I have always believed that the rural people have more common sense then city dwellers and that why I think the party is making a stand in lyne.
Ziggy
Possum Comitatus:
One only has to look at the models on offer.
The all point to a regressive tax on the people.
As you know under the MAI signed with the UN (ITC) we cant impose any undue tarriffs or restrictsions on TNC’s (Transnational Corportations) or Global Countries.
We are though allowed to impose those restrictions on our own regional businesses So under our agreement our regional companies will fund the global poluters.
If we try to impose undue traffifs or restrictions they maintain the right to have the Australian community compensate them or chose to move offshore with their workers.
Yes it is a horrible agreement but it stands. So no matter which way you look at it an ETS is heads they win tails we loose.
Ziggy
Just a couple of points of order Ziggy – it’s under the WTO that we cant impose tariffs on certain goods without the expectation of having retaliatory trade restrictions imposed upon our own exports by other countries. Which is fair enough – there’s no such thing as a free lunch (and to save Billbowes bandwidth here we wont even get to the cost/benefit analysis of tariffs themselves)
The Multilateral Agreement on Investment really has nothing to do with it – it couldn’t, the agreement was never implemented. Once France backed out, it fell in a heap because of the OECD consensus rules.
I just don’t understand when people say that the MAI has rooned us all – it was an agreement never signed and never implemented by anyone.
But the big thing with the ETS (like with just about every other major economic change) is that we aren’t dealing with a pie whose size never changes, so we aren’t dealing with a system where we’re fighting over the size of the pieces of that static pie.
We need to see the proposed ETS system first before we can rationally make a judgment on it, because without seeing it, without seeing the minutia and the detail (and without knowing whether carbon credit creation processes exist within it) – we don’t know the size of the pie we’re talking about, and hence cant really start comparing which mob gets the biggest slice.
Possum Comitatus
If its not going to achieve anything. (I think we all agree with that)
Why bother looking at any scheme.
Its a no win system for Australia. (But has the potential of real damage)
You and I both know that if we turned everything off in this country it would make not difference at all to any perceived threat to man made global warming.
I hope they dont just want to creat an industry of tax for the sake of it.
Why are we even looking at it.? We should be more involved in incentives to producing greener technologies or puting up tax consessions for R&D in renewable energies.
That way we will get a result that is measurable.
Dont you aree ? (and a lot safer and cheaper)
Ziggy
Greeensborough Growler:
Climate change has been happening naturally for thousands of years.
You were saying that it was man made Glaboal Warming.
I was trying to discuss the carbon tax. So I suggested that we agree on a consensis that there was no consensis on man made global warming.
I attempted many times to proceed to the next subject but you couldn’t or wouldn’t move on to the Carbon Tax system question.
CC never came into the discussions.
Ziggy