A new home for another fortnight or so’s worth of top quality US election repartee. I’m only one minor irritation away from pulling the plug on these threads, so please try not to annoy me (annoy each other by all means, but not me).
UPDATE (9/7/2008): After careful reflection, I have decided this will be the final US election thread. It will close for business in a week’s time, at which point American politics will be declared off-topic across the site. Many thanks for your co-operation.
UPDATE: (10/7/2008): New US site open for business. Thanks to Catrina for getting this off the ground.
Dick Cheney has been accused of interferrring in climate change testimony. A former official stood with Barbera Boxer at a press conference, which she ripped into Cheney for not protecting the people he is supposed to protect.
It’s very quiet on the politcal news stories today. Calm before the storm?
I know that befor i posted i’d be I’d be in probably prtty small dinghy of principals , but I like to win to , but win with some cloths left on so I can make some changes seeing I’m supposed to be the new change mans I’m already wining the election on that perceptions , got al the young that have not voted before ready to storm the voting queus , 350 million war chest , the other McCain only got 85 million and Mcain minus the bush 11 albotross and McCain minus supporting Iraq war an Mcain minu the credit crisis 7 job losses and minus everytim Mccain flips when opens his mouth These 5 principals most ‘left’ support & all ‘left’ Suptreme cout Judges suport , throw dem under the bus Already do not support the Edwards/Hllary universl healcare , already do not support the Edwards /hillary unqualifieed kyoto mark 11 committtment , and with Iraq now promising only to withhdraw ‘combat troops’ & leave a counter terroism force plus leav the military bases and have shades of vitnam ”military instructers ‘and got i got a list of over 30 other issues not posted , Edwards & Gore may be old style politcs but i could see them from a dinghy but can not see a ‘new style of politcs change to man’ Now realise i’m minority here , but voting for someone part unknown & part changed from left’ stances just becaus he is not Mccaiin & not wanting a Repug is abit integrity blackmail on us reely & leaves me the opton in US of not voting on principals , or being ambivalent or a minor candy Also , maybe look at visuals of alskan coastline & fish/bird graves , lost eco systems ands 15,000 each peoples compensation 10% of original vs Exxons 41 billion porofit this year OR look at no iminity , it meands the legal cases against the crrok corrupt bush & henchmen is stone dead , all Oily execs will hav memory papses in witness box now as yu look at ACCCC Samuels he “traded” imunity to Amocor to get Pratt Visy , police do same with trafficer to gt big fish so Obama’s ‘support’ of no imunity that actualy has no ‘trade’ deal to tetify is not clever except for the guilty ie bush etctc so got off track , back to start here you win with some undies and some basic policys and some basic rules of law & ‘left’ principals & not throw all overboard for me guys
“After leaving ABC, Roland Burton Hedley III did a brief stint as “chief content provider” for Yap!com, but went back to television when the site was downsized by the AOL-Time Warner merger. He then worked for CNN and now works for Fox News.”
Wed July 9:
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/doonesbury;_ylt=Aif8P7LSbhwDwcLufW1_uB7b.sgF
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roland_Hedley
Tues July 8:
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/patoliphant;_ylt=Au41HTGkfNiECRlNE5JrfOhR_b4F
Al at 117: “Politically I think he’s(Obi) been very shrewd the last few weeks. The Repubs best chance was to paint him as a “Dukakis liberal”. By coming out with some conservative views now, it neuters that line of attack.”
Tues July 8:
http://news.yahoo.com/edcartoons/bensargent;_ylt=Alg3feU.BqGobB_dBk2f_kBN_b4F
Btw, Al, can’t recall the last time Doc’s been got that good. No doubt about Colbert though, if only the piss-weak House Dems had a soupcon of the moral courage Colbert displayed at the 2006 WH press dinner. The guy’s a mensch of Swiftian dimensions. No one had ever stuck it up The Imbecile to his face like that in Primetime before.
Regarding VP,
Sebelius is still clearly the front runner for Obama. It was clear a long time ago that she was his preference. And his pivot since getting the nomination only makes it more obvious that Sebelius is his perfect fit.
He is going to handle National Security himself. It’s clear now he doesn’t think he needs a guy like Hagel, Nunn, Biden or all the other old hand guys mentioned. He is massaging Iraq, being “strong” on national security(with his unforgiveable about face on FISA),being patriotic etc etc.
Sebelius is the perfect fit for his new politics message of “One America”. That has always been his message…cut the left/right divisions and be one America. Sebelius has been sent to all the important meetings of power players of late and everything points to her imo.
Obama and Sebelius look, sound and feel like a Team. They will play extremely well with the Independants that are mostly made up of Right leaners that are disillusioned with Repugs but aren’t Al Franken liberals.
For the Repubs,
It is a landmine ready to go off whoever Ol Bomb Bomb picks. Every pick will set off explosions in one vital subset of the modern Repug Party vote. He has to be adventurous to get back in the game but every adventurous pick brings its own ready made disaster.
On balance he should probably pick Romney, but McSame is such a cantankerous stubborn bloke that he probably won’t.
He is probably stubborn enough to say F*ck you all and go with one of his remaining pals..Crist,Graham or Lie-berman.
148
The Finnigans Says:
July 9th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
“#119, Panching…..More confusion from pro Obama quarters…”
…
I am not sure if you include me in this or not, Finns. But, to allay any doubt, I am not confused about Obama. I think he is a tough, shrewd, intelligent, determined, talented, competitive, savvy, thoughtful, perceptive, deft and profoundly ambitious candidate. I also think he has the makings of a good leader – maybe even a great leader. And doesn’t America need one!
Having said all this, I don’t think I have a romanticized view of him. I think the labels used – liberal, centrist, conservative, moderate, progressive, neocon, flip-flopper, maverick – are at best blunt tools. I also think that anyone who can re-direct American politics away from unilateral war and a rejectionist stance on climate change, reform of the global economy and the regulation of business should be welcomed.
The human population faces some very, very serious issues. Political leadership is not much, but it is the starting point in dealing with our problems. We should hope America can find someone willing to at least have a go at things before it really is too late. So when I look from my vantage point overlooking the Indian Ocean and I ask: who is more likely to have a crack at things? A bamboozled and obsolete croaker with as much of a clue about things as my old Mum, or a young, educated, eloquent, energetic modernist? Well, there’s nothing to be confused about at all.
The main problem with picking Sebelius has to do with the Clintonian elephant in the room that it would raise. Clinton supporters would go nuts if he went for a woman that wasn’t Hillary while she was still in the running. If Hillary does a Webb or Warner and categorically rules herself out, then it probably becomes a different story.
Also working against Sebelius is the fact that she is also a relative novice, and is pretty boring.
She’s thereabouts, but I’d put Clinton, Biden and Clark out in front with her.
New poll in Rhode Island, not that it matters, but anyway:
Obama 55
McCain 31
3 most likely VP picks: Clark, Clinton, Edwards.
Yep Pancho we’ll soon see.
Look for Clinton to soon rule herself out of the VP candidacy. She has had her fun playing with the PUMAS and damaging Obama as much as she can while she (in her and Bill’s mind…oh and Lanny,Terry and the crew) bides her time til 2012.
For her political future she will publicly rule herself out of the job she doesn’t and has never wanted.
Obama won’t be swayed by the Clintons and *HER 18 million fictional voters* in his choice…you can bank on that.
You gotta be kiddin me if you don’t think women will be happy with a woman VP.
Only the PUMAS think Hillary is the ONLY woman.
Panching, admit it. Hill is the best Veep candidate as well as best POTUS candidate as the events are unfolding. but ask any Olympian, the best dont always win.
Amigo Ronnie: [but win with some cloths left on] – right-on.
Japanese soldiers in the 50s anyone? Let the dream go Finnster!
Does anyone really think Hill, and especially Bill, are going to hand over their complete records for inspection all for a lousy VP spot?
And does anyone think the Obama Team will risk having the Clintons as his running mates?
Cmon…step into reality.
If Sebelius is Obama’s pick, Hillary will be demanded to withdraw publicly well in advance of the VP announcement.
Panching – [Japanese soldiers in the 50s anyone?] – they might be misguided but at least they stayed royal and principled. can you say the same about your candidate?
Not Happy, jane.
[That same day, a new online group named “Senator Obama—Please Vote NO on Telecom Immunity—Get FISA Right” formed on his campaign’s social networking Web site. Now with more than 22,000 members, it is the largest group on MyBarackObama.com.
The online group is flooded with messages of disappointment and disillusionment. Some threaten to ask that their campaign contributions be returned, while others suggest they will simply stay home this fall.
One man even said he had removed his Obama bumper sticker from his car. “It’s the first and only bumper sticker that I’ve ever put on a vehicle that I owned, so my disappointment felt personal and significant,” he wrote.]
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-obama-internet_wedjul09,0,1582289.story
#164 – loyal
HarryH,
What does Sebelius bring to the table? She’s an inexperienced Governor from a deeply red (and small) state that Obama isn’t going to win in November no matter what. She’s boring and her being picked will infuriate some Clinton supporters. Her positives are limited (other than being a long-time supporter of Obama).
Anyway, it’s arguable that the US isn’t quite ready to elect a double-minority ticket to the White House. After all, this is the reason why people have ruled out Bill Richardson as a possible running mate…
Additionally, there are plenty of other good (and safer) VP alternatives for Obama. Just think about them – Clark, Kaine, Bayh, etc.
Finns
Unfortunately for yourself and the other Clinton clingers, it is this pivot that Obama has done that has finally relegated Billary to irrelevance.
Obama is winning over Clinton’s internal backers. It is Hill’s donors that encouraged his backflip on FISA.Donors and bigwigs care about results, not personalities. This is Obama’s time now. Clintons are yesterdays news.
In reality the past couple weeks are bad news for diehard personal Obama AND Clinton supporters.
For the people that won Obama the Primary, his new FISA stance is a total stab in the back. It was only February when he stood sise by side with Sen. Feingold in Wisconsin and promised he would stand sise by side with Feingold and Dodd and lead the way in rejecting the immunity given to the Bush Gangs in the new FISA law.
His other pivots since starting the General are all within the scope of his stated beliefs and principals, but his new FISA stance is a complete sellout.
For the people who support Clinton though, Obama’s pivot has left her irrelevant. If Obama ran as a Liberal, she had her place of relevancy in the Dem Party. But now that is gone.
167
not sure how i wrote “sise by side* twice lol. *side by side
HarryH: [Obama is winning over Clinton’s internal backers. It is Hill’s donors that encouraged his backflip on FISA.]
Not according to the WSJ:
Obama Faces Resistance From Top Supporters of Clinton – Sen. Barack Obama, the presumed Democratic presidential nominee, faces dissent from dozens of top fund-raisers and other supporters of former rival Sen. Hillary Clinton, who are angry over how she was treated during their bruising primary battle and are hesitating to back Sen. Obama.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121539354782631403.html?mod=hps_us_whats_news
166 Swing Lowe
I am only looking at it all objectively. I have no interest in Sebelius getting the job, and she is nowhere near my political sphere.
It is just my opinion after reading a lot and especially listening to what Obama actually says and what the contenders have said, when and where they have said it, and to whom they are speaking to.
Obama, and a few insiders, have long hinted at Sebelius as his preference. And Sebelius has been speaking to important audiences lately, from The Bilderburg Group to the recent DLC meeting that Obama didn’t attend. She seems to me to be doing a lot of the proxy work for Obama behind the scenes.
And there was her little slip about a month back that she was “looking forward to campaigning for Barack across the country”. Most Governors would say “across the State”.
Then about a week later Wes Clark introduced her at a closed door big honcho reception in Kansas as ” Americas next VP Kathleen Sebelius”.
We will soon see i s’pose.
169 Finns
Exactly.
Obama wants her backers. He’s a Poli.
They are making demands and he is acquiescing on some things.
Isn’t that what i said?
The second para of the article you linked says
“Some leading Clinton supporters are starting new Web sites or political action committees aimed at prodding Sen. Obama on issues or pressuring him to give Sen. Clinton a big role in the general-election campaign. People familiar with the matter say the effort involves dozens of the roughly 300 Clinton “Hillraisers,” individuals who raised at least $100,000″
Looking through an album cover site for a cover for my America mp3’s when I came across McCain Lost in America. Not the same first name, but it could be an omen.
http://www.albumartexchange.com
Antennae on Finns:
“Terry McAuliffe was obviously one of Hillary’s most aggressive and high-profile advocates during the primary, but now McAuliffe is really doing his part to help Obama get elected.
We hear McAuliffe will be the main attraction at a unity event for Obama this Thursday, along with Rep. Artur Davis, a top Obama supporter. A source forwards us the invite…
The event is meant to get lawyers and other young professionals who backed Hillary to swing behind Obama — it’s being organized by a bunch of pro-Hillary groups, such as Young Lawyers for Hillary and Young Professionals for Hillary.
Separately, today’s Chicago Sun Times caught a glimpse of McAuliffe in Aspen, where he went out of his way to reassure a table-full of Obama supporters: ”We’re all on the same team now! This election is too important.”
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/07/mcauliffe_hosting_fundraiser_f.php
I think unity is the order in camp Hills these days.
I was originally a Hillary supporter, now that I have swung behind Obama, I can see that Obama is going to do much better than Hillary ever could. Especially in the black vote in the south.
Mind you, that was only once I started looking at the demographics.
http://216.55.182.132/FairData/Historical/map.asp?command=scope&map=0
Hillraisers punched a bit of fat her way
All Hillrazors want to do is cut her down
Panching, are you trying to buy me off?
After careful reflection, I have decided this will be the final US election thread. It will close for business in a week’s time, at which point American politics will be declared off-topic across the site. Many thanks for your co-operation.
William
thank you for your patience & our opportunity to post here
It looks like arriverdeci time. thanks WB. It looks like i have to take it out on the Nowhere Man now. poor Brendon.
124
Swing Lowe Says:
July 9th, 2008 at 11:38 am
Chris B,
The only problem with your post @ 122 is that Congress is run by the Democrats atm – so how it is easier to blame the Republicans for Congress’ bad performance is beyond me…
Swing Lowe, I concur with your take on the US election (e.g. your cogent analysis of Obama’s Veep options in #166), but the Senate is only nominally run by Dems because WAACP Senator (War Against Any Arab Country Party), Joe Lieberman holds the balance of power. Furthermore, with a 2/3 majority required to overturn a Presidential veto and with 60% required to halt a filibuster in order to call a billl up for the vote and with V.P. Cheney presiding, the Senate is, to use technical terminology, stuffed. This lack of a true Dem Senate majority is the consequence of only 1/3 of the Senate being up for election in 2006, in contrast to all of the House of Reps.
If the Dems pick up 5 or 6 more Senate seats this year, and Obama is President, then the Dems will, within half a year, be blamed for everything that is wrong with America. Just as the Rudd Government is now being held totally responsible by the Murdoch press for all problems created by Team Howard.
Way back in May (remember the primaries?) someone came up with the idea to have parties on bridges all over the world in support of Obama. Here is a collection of photos from that event (about 7 pages).
http://www.flickr.com/photos/23556339@N05/
178 William Bowe What a shame.
157
Pancho
Hillary has already effectively rescinded her claim Pancho. It was part of the deal involving a small sum of $20m. Obama would have made it highly conditional: we throw you a rope to lug you out of the hole and you emerge all ‘unity’ and with no strings attached.
I’d be surprised if this wasn’t the case, but if I’m wrong, no doubt will find the details and post them here within the hour! LOL
Ha, right on cue: some comments in answer to an email to Obama supporters to stump up for Hillary’s debts:
“Why would I help pay off debts that Hillary amassed simply to keep damaging Senator Obama?”
“Gas prices are up, the markets are in turmoil, my kid’s fall tuition bill is coming soon. Writing checks to politicians I don’t like is not at the top of my list.”
NYTimes
…many apparently are unprintable! LOL No suprises really. Only 100k so far, which means Hillary’s Hole ain’t gettin’ filled any time this decade at that rate!
Off topic, but what the heck. Hats off to Gordon Brown for having some gumption to stir some support:
British officials said that Gordon Brown, the Prime Minister, used shock tactics to win support for a tough G8 statement refusing to recognise Mr Mugabe’s rule. He was said to have pulled fellow leaders aside to show them a horrific photograph of a driver for Zimbabwe’s opposition Movement for Democratic Change who was brutally murdered last month. He told them that every day the world failed to act, similar tragedies would follow
Crikey
…looks like he’s getting some support too.
KR at 186
It’s about time too!
187
Yeah, if only they had oil, they’d be invaded for the sake of democracy in a nano-second! LOL
On another subject, namely the US mortgage market. For the two big GSE’s (government sponsored enterpirses) Freddie and Fannie, things don’t look good, share prices down 60% and severe anxiousness about their need to get fresh capital is rattling the market.
And it ain’t chicken feed if things get nasty on this one:
“We believe any threat of [a Fannie or Freddie] failure could trigger a meltdown in credit markets that would make the movements in credit markets that we’ve seen over the last year look like a modest hiccup,” Harting wrote. “Needless to say, the impact of a dislocation of that order could cause serious harm to the global economy.”
…as they hold a mere $4 trillion in US mortgages, and are the guarantors that securitise the loans, allowing the banks to re-cycle the capital into the market, any problems here and we’re talking Armageddon for the US financial and housing markets.
That both companies have fallen so far, so quickly is NOT a sign that the punters are sanguine about their futures, so one to watch.
LOL William finally decided to pull the plug on these, cross between World Championship Wrestling and Days Of Our Lives, threads!
FISA and U.S. Government agency G-men and G-women, ‘fraid G-persons doesn’t really seem to cut it, have been spying on U.S. Citizens through and during many exchanges. Obama’s “I won’t prosecute spooking phone corporations” shouldn’t have come, bleeding hearts aside, as a surprise.
Remarkably, there has been a massive surge in the sale of courier pigeons in The Land of the Free. Sadly, passenger pigeons are no longer available for communicational purposes as Dick Cheney’s forebears indulged their hunting passions with great extinction.
http://editorialcartoonists.com/cartoon/display.cfm/55951
Lily Tomlin as: Ernestine – The obnoxious telephone operator with no concern for her customers (“‘Fair’? Sir, we don’t have to be fair. We’re the phone company.”).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rowan_&_Martin's_Laugh-In
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv18k_pec3o
—————–
Psssst, Kirri, been to “that other site”; great minds etc….
Btw, soldier, havn’t had anyone put up there hand yet to scope a Sydney venue for Nov. 5. OK with you if we shoot for Brissy should no one “own” organising it “down there”? Want to announce details well before William shuts his Sep shop ici.
“Psssst, Kirri, been to “that other site”; great minds etc…”
Yep, that site is still going, looooserrrr!
Only kidding EC, I couldn’t help myself.
It’s a shame to see the US thread go. The Oz thread is incredibly insipid and narrow, with endless mind-numbing debate about climate change from people who are not scientists but pretend to understand the issues in some fantasy land.
Agreed Diogs.
Wht happens in terms of the global impact from the US elections re: environmental policy, economic fallout, the Iraq war, the middle east situation not to mention the long awaited departure of GWB is pretty important IMHumble O.
What happens to Brendan Nelson seems a but trivial in comparison , however William has shown great tolerance until now and it’s his site so…what the heck.
As far as I’m concerned, the more esoteric the subject matter on this site, the better. The best threads here have been about electoral law, court rulings, redistributions, state by-elections and the Tasmanian upper house. I’ve never written about environmental policy, the Iraq war and the Middle East situation, so why am I moderating discussion about it?
William
I don’t understand much about moderating a blog that is effectively live and always seems to be open but I imagine its quite a task. Appreciate your efforts on various fronts. I would think an explanation of what is involved and a statement about expectations of participants as an introduction to people who are not used to blog sites or are inclined to think niggling or slagging off at people is fun would be helpful – somewhere accessible as Site Rules/Manners or similar. Combining the more technical and legal aspects of elections with the more social aspects of chat is also good and caters for a range of interests. Hopefully this site can provide an outlet perhaps after a break for information and debate on the US political system.
William
A break would do everyone good but I wonder if there is a chance of the US thread being resurrected about a month before the November election. 😀
William-
I guess people who are interested in politics (as opposed to psephology) tend to go wherever the latest issues are, which was never the point of your site I know, so we have unwittingly hijacked it. Thanks from your patience and for what it’s worth it has been an important part of my day to to day life to have this enggement with others from all sides of the political spectrum.
Many thanks.
I will probably live blog on the day, and maybe open a thread a week beforehand. I’m not going to do guidelines, because my rulings will vary according to circumstance.
William
Thanks for that little ray of hope. I’m not sure where I’ll go to get my daily dose of abuse now. Perhaps Bill O’Reilly or Ann Coulter have a blog which needs a liberal perspective from Australia…
I appreciate your patience with us. We are an unruly but spirited bunch.