In an effort to keep the previous thread at least partly on topic, I hereby open a new one for purposes of general chatter. Perhaps you might like to take a shot at guessing Tuesday’s Newspoll result, which seems to be an increasingly popular parlour game among the leisured classes. Ever so much water has passed under the bridge since the 56-44 result of last fortnight: an interest rate increase, a new round of Liberal leadership tension and last week’s stock market dive. Newspoll is conducted from Friday through to Sunday, so Kevin Rudd’s New York misadventure is unlikely to be much of a factor.
Game, set, match Pi.
Glen would hate to find out Howard is not the man he believes him to be.
Look at Hawkie – drunk the yard at Oxford, women by the score. It is said the ACTU used to book a permanent room at the old Southern Cross Hotel for him to bring his lady friends back to in the day time.
And now it comes out about Packer.
Gary ill tell you why your points are wrong….
1) They were on the own free time when this happened and paid for their own drinks etc. Warren Snowden has said that.
WELL
They were in another country…and in their roles as Members of Parliament of the Commonwealth of Australia and on their free time they choose to get smashed and go to a strip joint…if people in the diplomatic service did they as representatives of our country you’d expect them to be fired…
2)Age is irrelevant. It’s either OK to go to one of these establishments or it is not. Which is it FOR YOU Glen? Personally I haven’t been to one but don’t care if others go.
WELL
Age is not irrelevant…we were all young once and you could understand someone doing that at a young age…I personally have never been to one but the fact is Rudd was 46 a mature adult and a representative of our country overseas and he’s lack of judgement got him into a strip joint…he should have known better…
3)Has been drunk twice in his life. That makes him a drunk does it Glen? Shows he has no control? TWICE IN A LIFE TIME GLEN. That shows great control.
WELL
How on earth are we to take this on board as fact Gary the fact is if he was a someone who didnt like alcohol WHY DID HE GET SMASHED WHILST OVERSEAS??? To me that sounds like someone trying to do anything to impress people…Being drunk is never an excuse for someone’s failings…if i went and bashed someone and said i was drunk it s not my fault and i dont drink much id be put in the slammer!
4) Stupid point without proof or foundation.
WELL
Gary last time i checked Rudd hasnt come clean about this until now…he has shown himself to be gutless and deceitful on top of that because he knew if he came clean his political career would be smacked!
Oh and last time i checked Churchill and Roosevelt didnt go to strip joints when they went overseas representing their countries and then blamed alcohol on why they were there…Rudd is a pathetic sleaze…and unlike you left wingers im not going to say 20 people changed their votes…we’ll figure that out on election day but id be surprised if this didn’t smack his popularity ratings down a fair bit…
Glen… you’re about to get a very rude shock when you find that all of your moralizing is going to have exactly the opposite effect.
Adam, the recent biography on Howard reported that Howard admitted being drunk when addressing parliament. Apparently it happened after the 1987 election.
Just interrupting this Festival of Mediocrity to note that Peter Andren has said his pancreatic cancer is inoperable.
This is not tremendous news for him.
Contrast Rudd’s response to accusations of blundering with those of Howard and Co.
Rudd says: Yes, I did it. It was dumb. I’m sorry.
The Government has spent 12 years saying: No, it didn’t happen, and if it did it wasn’t our fault, and nobody told us, we only misled the parliament and the people because we were misled by others. And we’re not sorry it happened anyway.
The more dirt the government dishes out on Kevin Rudd, the more opportunity Rudd has to show his humanity, his dignity and his readiness to accept responsibility for his own actions.
gawwwd… such a shame about the poor bloke.
Better to put all those ugly skeletons back in the closet.
The game of this skeleton is uglier than that skeleton could reveal some truly extraordinary untold stories.
Information does not need to be in newspapers, radio and TV these days to get passed around at lightning speed.
Whilst the regular media may self censor, the blogosphere tells all…
Glen, you are clutching at straws. Just take a deep breath. You’ve still got a couple more months before your beloved party goes to the polls. Maybe a REAL scandal around Rudd will surface, who knows. You can only hope.
Howard was drunk in Parliament. However, he has refused to apologise as it is all the fault of the states.
Adam Says:
August 20th, 2007 at 12:24 pm
What is this “Howard drunk in Parliament†story that people keep mentioning? I’ve never heard this, and it seems out of character .
Adam, I believe it came from the earlier Biography on Howard.
It was an admission by Howard that his earlier disappointments with leadership issues caused him to indulge much more than he had up to that time and which he admitted was an excessive level previously.
This explained to a degree why he lost the leadership. He admitted in the book to being drunk when addressing Parliament.
I thought it was the union bosses?
How about you answer this question Glen.
What is worse?
A. Being smashed at work.
B. Being smashed after hours.
Steve Kaye, Glen, Cerdic Conan……… the election is lost face it. Whether you think Rudd is fit to be PM is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the OZ polity will almost certainly elect a Labor Govt.
Those of us who have long felt that JWH was a lying corrupt rodent have endured being told that the people had endorsed him and that we were just “Howard Haters”.
It’s your turn I’m afraid. Sorry but should we right your opinions off as “Rudd Haters”?
Newspoll: 56-44 or better mate.
Adam correctly points out that the big story is the continuing mess resulting from the IR policy that shall remain nameless.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/nelson-i-went-to-strip-club-too/2007/08/20/1187462137020.html
[‘In Melbourne this morning, Greens leader Bob Brown compared the opposition leader’s indiscretion to the Prime Minister’s decision take the nation to war in Iraq.
“Four years ago, Kevin Rudd got drunk and took himself into a strip club,” Senator Brown said.
“Four years ago, John Howard, sober, took Australia into the Iraq war. I think the electorate can judge which one did the more harm,” he said.’]
What is worse Asanque…
A. Have 3 glasses of Red and make a speech
OR
B. Get pissed and go to a strip joint whilst overseas representing your country in an official capacity and then not telling anyone for 4 years and then blaming it all on alcohol…
hhhhhm ill pick A any day
Meanwhile, back on planet Earth…
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/08/20/2009581.htm
Glen, Rudd is nothing but a naughty boy.
Spend a couple of minutes looking at this and calm yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6PrqA32Bp4&NR=1
Glen:
Yes, I would choose A any day of the week too.
And as wikipedia says of Hawke before he became PM
“But while his career continued successfully, his heavy use of alcohol and his notorious womanising placed considerable strains on his family life”
And they elected him!
A friend of an annonamous source, has nether confirmed or denied Bob Brown (aspiring to be leader of Australia) was drunk in a strip club in a foreign location many years ago.
Should i tell Glen ??
Glen stop assuming that Rudd’s defendents are from the left. I have defended him, and have voted for FF in the last two Vic elections. Fed 04 and Vic 06. I see myself as right wing, but after what Howard and the Libs, as well as FF have done since 04, along with what you, Steve and Co have said here, I am now ashamed to be from the right. Well done, you have lost Howard another vote. You must be so proud.
Glen,
So your point is that no one representing Australia has ever drunk too much while overseas on official business in the whole history of the Commonwealth.
If you are right, then your smears may have some credibility.
This mud-slinging doesn’t shift votes, it merely reinforces already held perceptions.Â
Those who want Rudd to win are even more determined to vote for him, and those who want to see him lose, will be desperately hoping that it changes votes. But, it will have the same effect that the Burke et al scandals have had, nil. It just reinforces the perception that the Govt is a tricky lot, and if they are not careful that will transform into a grubby lot. They are wasting their time with this sort of rubbish, but I guess it’s just a reflection of how desperate they really are.
I really don’t know why the Coalition have adopted this US style tactic, it doesn’t wash here, this isn’t middle America, there won’t be hordes of people aghast at this story.
The truth is, they have wasted a lot of time this year on rubbish, instead of focusing on their one true trump card, economic management. They will bang on hard about this in the election, but it will be far too late then, in fact it already is now.
Bob Hawke’s womanising was suppressed by the media as are the pecadillos of current members.
If they had been revealed, would it have made any difference?
In the hothouse of a campaign perhaps.
So many fundamentalist Christian preachers in the USA have been exposed as hypocrites and had their careers ruined.
Bill Clinton’s problem was in lying not in doing.
Looks like this campaign may be one of the dirtiest ever.
As Richardson said, “whatever it takes..”
Greensborough read my previous posts…its not just that he went to a strip club you have to look at his actions in their entirety.
Bert i never meant to assume independents or those unaligned would support either fashion…your vote is your own but to change on the basis of posts on a politics blog would not do justice to your democratic voice…
I’m sure they’d be left wingers who’d think what Rudd did was bad and i hope there are…but i havent heard any yet..
Hi Gary, yes I have just finished reading the book on Howard. I thought I should read it before the election. Given a (likely) Coalition loss, Howard’s relevance at least in the short term, is likely to be diminished. The authors provide a fairly balanced perspective which is unaffected by ideologically driven prejudices from one or other side of politics. The book is not the work of hagiographers. It contains criticisms of Howard which are incisive and realistic but it also questions the motives and agendas of those on the Left who have made Howard their special “anti-hero”. Although not the “page turner” like the book I read immediately before it (the seventh Harry Potter), I found it a more interesting read than I imagined. Love him or hate him, it has to be said that Howard’s journey from Earlwood to the prime ministership makes him a substantial figure in the history of our nation. A defeat at the election, however humiliating, will never change that. I tend to agree with the authors when they opine that those who confidently assert Howard is a “divisive” political figure are, in fact, saying no more or less than that they do not agree with his policies. That is fair enough because those who oppose him or even hate him, have a clear option, which is not affected by anything Howard has done or has omitted to do: they can give vent to their wishes by not voting for him, as indeed many regular posters on this and other threads intend to do.
Glen, That’s because the word ‘liberal’ has been completely on the Liberal party, and has now been assumed by the the ALP. By becoming dogmatic preachers (e.g. Abbott, Howard, Hollingworth) they’ve alienated the people they were supposed to have a god-given right to rule (e.g. the ‘battlers’).
In america, where there is non-compulsory voting, issues of morality can win campaigns, if you get people pissed off. With compulsory voting, you get the party that everyone ‘least hates’, not the one that small but influential group ‘most loves’. Which is why, of course, that Howard has changed the registration rules to disenfranchise predominantly young people from the political process.
I should have said ‘completely lost’ in the first sentence.
Glen,
The more you write, the less sense you make. Your nonsensical spoutings and irrational hatred of the next Prime Minister of our great nation is highly amusing.
Keeping Kevin Rudd and his alleged shortcomings on sight simply emphasises the contrast between him and the dirt bags on the Liberal side.
Rudd will sail through this confected scandal and come out even more popular. For that, you and your ilk can take all the credit.
Suffer in your jocks!
This is from Derryn Hinch’s web site on Friday about the Liberal Party in Victoria reinstating a Shadow Minister who had made sexual advances to a teenager. Thank God he didn’t meet her in a strip club while overseas representing Australia or else the Liberal Party might have to do something about it.
http://www.hinch.net/says_archive07/Aug07/17-8-07.html
A RIVA OF BABBLE ON
Well, now it’s official. In the church they call the Liberal Party don’t worry too much about your sins, or betrayal of trust, or making late night sexual advances to a teenager. Your redemption will only take six months.
I’m talking about Opposition Leader Ted Baillieu’s re-arranging of his creaky chairs on an increasingly leaky boat and resurrecting disgraced backbencher Richard Della-Riva to the shadow cabinet.
I guess that means it is OK for a 43-year-old married father of three to talk dirty to a teenage passenger…
Paul thats a shadow minister whose not running for PM…and Paul give the State Libs a break how many people would put their hands up to be an MP for the State Libs and be in opposition with little chance of ever being elected…there’s so few of them in the Victorian Parliament they dont have alot of talent to choose from now do they…
Pi i think that Menzies should have chosen the Conservative Party of Australia but he didnt and we’re stuck with the Liberals look if we lose the election we might have to form a new party like the Canadian Progressive Conservatives had to after getting pumped in 1993…i still think we should call ourselves the United Australian Party…Hanson has a lot to answer for by taking that name because it was a good name for the right wingers of the 1930s…
Can someone please talk about POLLS? If you must talk about the latest “issues”, at least relate them to their possible effects on imminent polls and/or the coming election. I’m sick of reading all this biassed regurgitation of the same moralising nonsense, especially from Glen.
Alan this has a lot to do with the election…do you think people want a bloke who goes to strip clubs and whose been a leader for less than 1 year to run the country i think not…
Glen,
So it’s OK to have pedophiles in the Liberal Party running for Minister just as long as they don’t run for PM. What wonderful morals you have in the Liberal Party.
“Bob Hawke’s womanising was suppressed by the media as are the pecadillos of current members. If they had been revealed, would it have made any difference?” – Richard Jones
Definitely. DEFINITELY. First off, let’s understand that Hawke’s larrikin persona wore thin with the electorate pretty quickly – not once was he able to secure a swing to his Government in any of the elections he contested as PM, and in his last year in charge his approval rating was in the mid-20s, a dismal showing. But one thing that did sustain him was his relationship with Hazel, whom Aussies regarded with great affection. We still feel very warmly towards her.
Trust me, if the electorate knew that he was cheating on her, they would have quite rightly punished him for it.
For what it’s worth, I was polled on Friday by a company named “sweeney” (phon). Many political and policy questions, several about Workchoices as well as about product recognition. Took 15 mins.
Re Rudd. A local radio station did a street poll yesterday, all the women laughed, one old bloke who sounded like I imagine S Kaye to be was pomposly offended, and used Glens line about Aust reps overseas setting a good example.
I think you’ll find that he did it to raise funds for charity. (Although you may be right that somebody _also_ said he had nice ankles–I don’t know.)
Anyhoo, on the topic of polls – I have no idea what the news poll. I think the underlying 2pp is around 55/56 to the ALP.
Hence 54 or below will cause for celebration for the coalition – putting the ALP within range of the coalition’s cannondale of ads.
55,56 will be seen as a non result and could be spun either way.
57,58 well thats looking grim but it was a bad fortnight
59+ could see howard out on his ear by the end of the week.
I think the 55/56 area is most likely.
‘Aspirational nationalism’?
‘Core promises’?
‘Headland speeches’?
‘Incentivation’?
Why does John Howard hate the English language so much?
Glen: The Liberals should just merge with the United Australia Party as they have already stolen most of Hanson’s xenophobic racist policies under Howard. Even Pauline says so.
Steven,
Can we deal with the facts!
Hawke, just like Howard was trying to stave off generational change. Thankfully, the Labor Government did not fall for the “current Leader is immortal” nonsense that this current Liberal Government is trying to sell.
The public knew Hawke was a piss pot and womaniser and elected him PM on four seperate occaissions.
Your use of polls as a source for your arguments is strange in light of your continual deriding of current polls. You better take your medication.
Steven Kaye Says: Trust me, if the electorate knew that he was cheating on her, they would have quite rightly punished him for it.
Steven, take it as a given, I don’t trust you. Bob Hawke went to the polls with everyone knowing what he was like. I remember when he squirted out a few tears before the election. Revisionist thinking isn’t going to revise history.
J-D, it’s because people often hate what they don’t understand.
Newspoll prediction 58:42. Forget the Ruddslide, the election will be a Ruddbath.
The more I think about it the more convinced I am that this Rudd issue is part of an overall campaign initiated by Crosby and Textor to throw multiple issues into the public domain to take attention away from the “real” issues that are damaging Howard in the polls.
Take for instance “Workchoices”, polling has shown that their adds aren’t working, that it stinks even with their own supporters, “Interest Rates”, which according to Newspoll, are doing them damage, and the “Global Market Crisis”, which could lead to further interest rate rises and damage the Coalitions supposed “economic superiority”.
The interventions in the NT and QLD affairs as well as Howards proposal to further intervene in State affairs, the Nuclear issue both local with proposals for power stations & dumps and the export issues to India and Russia, all point to a “muddying of the waters” as a distraction from the real issue.
That being, Howard and his Government have lost the trust of the Australian electorate, are on the nose and cannot make any headway in the polls leading up to probably their most crucial election in 30 years. It is all going southward for them in a big way and the way they are going it will most probably get worse.
If they had put all those people engaged in monitoring and dirt units to work in policy development and gauging what the future requirements Australia needed to continue prospering, the Libs would most probably not be in the situation they now find themselves.
So much for being influenced by Karl Rove & Co. Look where it has now got the Republicans. None so blind as those who can’t see.
Out of interest could the pro-coalition bloggers put on record what they think would be a “good” and “bad” result in today’s news poll.
I think this would be more interesting than the after the event spin.
Pi at #67 said:
>> how far from the true definition of ‘liberal’ that the conservatives in Australia have gone
Mike Cusack Says:
August 20th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
For what it’s worth, I was polled on Friday by a company named “sweeney†(phon).
Mike, never visit a Barber Shop run By Sweeny Todd!
Sorry, Pi, I failed to add my response.
____
Is the Liberal Party in contravention of some Trade Practices Act, false advertising, misrepresentation etc?
“how far from the true definition of ‘liberal’ that the conservatives in Australia have gone”