The Australian reports the latest Newspoll has Labor maintaining its 55-45 two-party lead from the post-budget poll three weeks ago, from primary votes of Labor 38% (steady), Coalition 34% (steady), Greens 12% (up one), One Nation 6% (down one). The reports says Anthony Albanese is down two on approval to 55% while Peter Dutton is steady on 36%, with disapproval ratings not yet provided (UPDATE: down one to 37% for Albanese, down one to 50% for Dutton). Albanese’s lead as preferred prime minister shifts from 56-29 to 55-28.
The poll provides further evidence for a deterioration in support for the Indigenous voice, with 46% in favour and 43% opposed, in response to a question based on that to be put at the referendum. The poll was conducted Wednesday to Saturday from a sample of 1549.
“Three people are known to have died on the Ukraine-controlled bank of the Dnipro River, while occupying authorities on the left-bank have said at least five people were killed.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/jun/08/russia-ukraine-war-live-first-kherson-dam-flooding-deaths-un-nuclear-watchdog-to-strengthen-presence-at-zaporizhzhia-plant
KB
“If the Voice actually fails, Albanese would not be the first PM to mistake his electoral success and polling popularity for a sign that the country had radically changed rather than a sign that it had rejected and ejected the other mob. The Aston by-election win may have been an emboldening factor here, but what if it was largely about the Liberal Party preselecting a ring-in from the inner city and then fighting itself at state level over Moira Deeming (displeasing all sides in the process)?”
_____________________
Very interesting Kevin, you
might be onto something there.
Maybe it’s the Yes vote that is soft.
“About 230 square miles (600 sq km) of the Kherson region in southern Ukraine was under water on Thursday after the destruction of the Nova Kakhovka hydroelectric dam, the regional governor said.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2023/jun/08/russia-ukraine-war-live-first-kherson-dam-flooding-deaths-un-nuclear-watchdog-to-strengthen-presence-at-zaporizhzhia-plant#top-of-blog
It is about 87km from the dam to the mouth of the Dnipro, so if 600 sq km is inundated, that is an average of about 3.4 km either side of the previous banks – although given the lower and flatter topography on the left bank, it would be more there and less on the right bank.
Edit: the piece said 68% of the inundation was on the left bank, so that means an average of 4.7 km overflow on that side and 2.2 km on the right bank.
In the abstract cartoon-illustration world of liberal idealism, this is indeed true. But everyone knows what would happen if Cuba decided that now was a great time for the island to install “defensive” Russian missiles pointed at the States. There is a reason they don’t. Because that’s a fight nobody wants to pick. The whole point of the Maidan coup was to pick this fight. The Cuba analogy is extremely generous, considering the actual history of Eastern Europe. It is with this reality in mind that cooler heads in the Biden administration resist the posturing of silly Poland.
From Crikey daily email: ”When the governor of the Reserve Bank becomes a figure of mockery, and loses credibility in the eyes of our most respected commentators, we’re in trouble. Bernard Keane and Glenn Dyer write that at the most serious moment in monetary policy since the 1990s recession, Philip Lowe continues to talk his way into ridicule, damaging the Reserve Bank along the way.”
Full story:
https://www.crikey.com.au/2023/06/08/reserve-bank-philip-lowe-leadership-crisis/?su=UEJ5dU1IVWZVbWdidyt2NDV2RGQwUT09
Steve777 @7.08pm
The response by Lowe reeks of someone under pressure and may have his PA making contact with his family members to warn them that he is going to spend more time with them sooner rather than later.
Hockey et al found that providing ‘advice’ to the great unwashed did not enhance their careers.
Watermelon @ Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 7:06 pm:
“In the abstract cartoon-illustration world of liberal idealism, this is indeed true. But everyone knows what would happen if Cuba decided that now was a great time for the island to install “defensive” Russian missiles pointed at the States.”
=================
You seem very confused about history, the way you are drawing spurious analogies like this. The Cuban missile crisis of 1962 saw the USSR attempt to deploy nuclear missiles in Cuba, which is something nobody has tried to do in Ukraine. Further, it saw the use of diplomatic brinkmanship by JFK and Krushchev to actually prevent complete escalation, something I would very much like to see Biden do now, but which you seemingly oppose. Finally, this crisis did not involve the US launching a full-scale genocidal invasion of Cuba, unlike what Russia has been doing to Ukraine since Feb 24 last year.
Must do much better. Grade: F.
Oliver Sutton says:
Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 3:32 pm
Taylormade says:
‘The texts reveal Mr Sharaz’s fury towards former prime minister Scott Morrison, at one point admitting “I still hate the c…”.’
And so say all of us …
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
98.6 asks :
Has any PBer used the full C-word on Poll Bludger ?
In regards to the dam debate, there’s this.
https://lieber.westpoint.edu/attacking-dams-part-i-customary-international-law/
The whole Higgins thing has become further politicised .. Dutton going in with his oversized boots..
The Guardian..
An audio recording of Higgins, her partner David Sharaz and two Network 10 journalists, along with text messages sent from Higgins to various parties, have been published by multiple outlets over several weeks.
The source of the material remains unclear, but several people with knowledge of the case confirmed to the Guardian Australia that it was included in evidence provided to parties including lawyers for Lehrmann, the ACT office of the director of public prosecutions, and investigating officers as part of Lehrmann’s criminal case. Third parties external to the investigation and court case could also have had access to the material.
To me the ACT coppers seem to be branch of the Liberal Party
98.6 asks :
Has any PBer used the full C-word on Poll Bludger ?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Only thought it!
WeWantPaul says:
Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 7:59 am
“it never ends well when politicians, ie ‘the government ‘ are put in charge of Monetary policy”
Um how does democracy work if you don’t trust politicians to exercise democratic power?
Or put another way if you actually believe in democracy why would you want an incredibly important part of economic policy run by unelected spivs?
……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
One of the mysteries of the universe.
WWP: “if you actually believe in democracy why would you want an incredibly important part of economic policy run by unelected spivs?”
Is this the part where we vote who is going to be the captain of the plane?
I’m guessing Watermelon’s plugged himself back in to the Borg collective for further guidance. It can get stressful for a mind spoonfed bullshit for decades when it encounters reality.
NATO is a nuclear weapons organization that exists for the primary purpose of military opposition to Russia. If Ukraine joins NATO it comes under formal, permanent automatic nuclear umbrella, at which point a Kennedy-style response to the installation of missiles becomes impossible. Hence the attack from Russia was provoked to occur before NATO accession. It was triggered when Zelenskyy gave an ultimatum threatening to tear up the Budapest Memorandum if NATO membership did not proceed.
What you call “diplomatic brinkmanship” was actually the most insanely dangerous moment in human history, where the fate of literally millions of human beings came down to one single decision by one single man – Vasily Arkhipov – in a submarine too deep to receive any radio signals about what was actually going on. It is literal mental illness to look at that example and recommend a similar course of action for any world leader.
As atrocious as Putin’s invasion has been, I think that it is a cheapening of the term “genocide” to apply it to this conflict. But that aside, the US had been waging a murderous campaign of sabotage and terrorism (Operation Mongoose) against Cuba since the failure at the Bay of Pigs, and the crisis actually prevented such an invasion, which the US security establishment had been actively planning, as the missiles were removed as part of agreement not to invade.
“98.6 asks :
Has any PBer used the full C-word on Poll Bludger ?”
‘Credlin’?
It’s had a few runs today.
“Russians kill entire family and injure 4 children in Donetsk Oblast:
Russian invaders have killed a 4-year-old child, his father and grandfather in Donetsk Oblast, and four more children aged 3, 4, 9 and 13 have been injured.”
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/06/8/7405863/
Watermelon @ Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 7:56 pm:
“If Ukraine joins NATO it comes under formal, permanent automatic nuclear umbrella, at which point a Kennedy-style response to the installation of missiles becomes impossible. Hence the attack from Russia was provoked to occur before NATO accession.”
=============••
So, you think a ‘Kennedy-style response’ is an option you think Russia should regard as worth defending by a pre-emptive conquest of Ukraine. This sits oddly with your later point about the sanity of such a ‘Kennedy-style response’.
In any event, NATO has shown absolutely no indication it will imminently grant accession to Ukraine – quite the contrary. So, how could such a remote prospect have possibly counted as a ‘provocation’ to full scale invasion back on Feb 24 last year?
Seven Network and 7-Eleven are at, er, sevens and sevens …
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jun/08/door-opens-for-7-eleven-delivery-service-as-seven-loses-battle-over-7now-trademark
“NATO is a nuclear weapons organization that exists for the primary purpose of military opposition to Russia. If Ukraine joins NATO it comes under formal, permanent automatic nuclear umbrella, at which point a Kennedy-style response to the installation of missiles becomes impossible. Hence the attack from Russia was provoked to occur before NATO accession. It was triggered when Zelenskyy gave an ultimatum threatening to tear up the Budapest Memorandum if NATO membership did not proceed.”
What a complete torrent of bullshit. The Budapest Memorandum exists to protect Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity – now who “tore it up”?
Watermelon @ Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 7:56 pm:
“It was triggered when Zelenskyy gave an ultimatum threatening to tear up the Budapest Memorandum if NATO membership did not proceed.”
==============
You really didn’t get yourself properly briefed, did you?
Ukraine made one promise to the USA, UK and Russia in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum: to hand over its entire arsenal of over 1,900 nuclear warheads to Russia. This they did, promptly. How could they possibly ‘tear up’ an agreement for which they have already fully discharged their responsibilities?
The awkward fact for you is that it was Russia which tore up the Budapest Memorandum, that infamous day in February 2014 when it illegally seized Crimea. Russia had made one promise to Ukraine in return for the massive nuclear arsenal it was getting: a security assurance to respect Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, as it was defined in its 1991 borders. What happened to that promise?
”We’re not making any apology for focusing our efforts much more acutely on online, digital [and] television – that’s where the audience is and that’s where the return on investment for taxpayers is,” [Victorian Premier] Andrews said.”
Why the Victorian Government stopped advertising in
Liberal Party propaganda outletsprint media. A mix of balance and whinging:https://www.theage.com.au/business/companies/behind-the-victorian-government-s-cutting-move-to-online-advertising-20230608-p5df2q.html
mimhoff @ Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 8:20 pm:
===========
You get the ‘Snap!’ 🙂
But let’s go easy on him. Bullshit is all his mind’s been fed this millennium. It must be confronting to come onto a Western site like this and encounter actual facts about the real world.
More allegations about BRS.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-06-08/roberts-smith-allegedly-directed-soldier-to-kill-inquiry-heard/102447030
Watermelon @ Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 7:56 pm:
“… and the crisis actually prevented such an invasion, which the US security establishment had been actively planning, as the missiles were removed as part of agreement not to invade.”
============
Did you really mean to make this analogy? You seem to be suggesting that, in Russia’s view, had NATO in fact put nuclear missiles in Ukraine in say December 2021, that would have worked to deter Russia from invading Ukraine: their removal could then be the quid pro quo for an agreement not to invade.
Thank you. That is very good to know. Russia will back down when confronted with the ultimate escalation; they will press on with aggression when confronted with anything less. This is a contribution of yours I actually appreciate.
A grubby business gets grubbier by the day
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jun/08/leaked-brittany-higgins-material-to-be-raised-in-federal-court-hearing-of-bruce-lehrmann-defamation-case
I’ve for a while been of the view that the support for Lerhmann by some media players had more to do with a battle between media rivals.
Throw in a police service desperate to draw attention away from their shortcomings and some politicians trying to preserve what reputation they have left and you have some unholy alliances.
I wonder if Mr Soffronof, who seems to have heard enough and is writing his report, might take an interest in this development If it seems to be a leak of privileged material.
We had a visit from watermelon, the trolls were out in force so other parties had good reason to complain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlrUkIRCSWI
Watermelon, one more thing. Nothing you have said these past two days even comes close to justifying why scores or hundreds of Ukrainian settlements have had to be destroyed; why hundreds of Ukrainians have had to be tortured; why hundreds or thousands of Ukrainian women and children have had to be raped; why tens of thousands of Ukrainians have had to be killed, civilian as well as military; why millions of Ukrainians have had to be forced to flee their homes, many of which homes no longer exist; why tens of billions of dollars worth of Ukraine’s economy has had to be destroyed.
All of this has been directly and deliberately done by Russian soldiers. Nobody in the West asked them or made them do any of those things. Nobody in Ukraine asked them or made them do any of those things. Think about that.
Watermelon
“As atrocious as Putin’s invasion has been, I think that it is a cheapening of the term “genocide” to apply it to this conflict.”
Russia is genuinely considered to be an existential threat to the people and cultures of its neighbours.
The term “genocide” is defined under international law, and applies prima facie to Russia’s current actions in Ukraine under at least four definitions. Without exaggeration.
Article II
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/documents/atrocity-crimes/Doc.1_Convention%20on%20the%20Prevention%20and%20Punishment%20of%20the%20Crime%20of%20Genocide.pdf
I refer you also to
https://www.riigikogu.ee/en/sitting-reviews/riigikogu-adopted-a-statement-on-russias-war-crimes-and-genocide-in-ukraine/
This week is particularly sensitive on this topic, as it marks the anniversary of the 1941 deportation of over 42000 people from the Baltic states, and 48000 from then Poland and Romania.
https://estonianworld.com/life/estonia-remembers-the-soviet-deportations/
Having stood within metres of the Russian border in the last year, having met with ethnic Russians living in Estonia and worked with the Ukrainian refugee and migrant community in Australia in the past year, I can assure you that your comment is factually incorrect and deeply offensive to those whose families, livelihoods and culture are under direct threat from Russia’s brutal, senseless genocidal depravity.
RP @ #1424 Thursday, June 8th, 2023 – 8:37 pm
Is he back in the country or still offshore?
Eston Khover, thank you for your contribution just then. I’m sick to my stomach that people like Watermelon exist.
You can call the Ukrainian forces’ actions in the Donbas since 2014 “genocidal” by a similar standard. Not saying it’s wrong, because words take their meaning from how they are used, but this is not an ethnic cleansing like poor bloody Palestine.
If you think that’s what I’m trying to do you’re an idiot
Watermelon says:
Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 9:11 pm
You can call the Ukrainian forces’ actions in the Donbas since 2014 “genocidal” by a similar standard. Not saying it’s wrong, because words take their meaning from how they are used, but this is not an ethnic cleansing like poor bloody Palestine.
The Jews have not completely flattened whole towns, it take the Russian to do that.
While acknowledging the brutality of the conflict in the self declared DPR and LPR, I’m not sure that a nation state seeking to dominate separatist forces backed by the neighbouring state, and built on a long program of Russification through systematic displacement and migration would be seen in the same light under international law.
That conflict saw 298 passengers die on board MH17, including 27 Australians. Two Russians and a pro-Russian Ukrainian separatist were found guilty in absentia in 2022 in a Dutch court, which also found the separatist forces were under Russian control at the time.
You may recall that then Foreign Minister Julie Bishop was the one who shirtfronted Putin over the incident.
https://amp.smh.com.au/national/the-m17-atrocity-and-how-julie-bishop-shirtfronted-putin-diplomatically-20220608-p5asab.html
On other conflicts – historical and current, there are significant examples of what may be genuinely considered genocidal crimes. Bosnia and Myanmar come immediately to mind. But how does this excuse Russia?
The Cuban Crisis has actually changed the history of USA in one sense.
A lot of anti-Castro Cubans immigrated to US and mainly to Florida because that was closest State to Cuba.
Cuban Americans voted in huge majorities for American Presidential candidates, which had been decisive in 2000 election and Bush Jr. became President.
There is conspiracy theory that anti-Castro Cubans had links to Kennedy assassination. That conspiracy theory is even taught in NSW year 12 syllabus as conspiracy theory.
“Is this the part where we vote who is going to be the captain of the plane?”
How many hours did it take you to come up with this absurdity that if you were a bit smarter might have been a strawman, and if you were smarter still might have been whataboutism, and if you were a lot smarter, say 50th percentile of the population might have been funny!
“The Jews have not completely flattened whole towns, it take the Russian to do that.”
Doesn’t the State of Israel do that pretty much every week? Are they not Jewish?
I’m confused.
WeWantPaul says:
I’m confused.
______________________________________
Finally admitted it despite bluffing for years. Oh. And you are anti-semitic as well. Not just anti-Israel.
Ukrainian civilians killed by Russian military, Feb 24, 2022 to Jun 4, 2023: 8,983 (19.3 per day)
Source: Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR)
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293492/ukraine-war-casualties/
Palestinian civilians killed by Israeli military, 1 Jan 2008 to 20 Mar 2023: approx 3,700 (0.7 per day)
Source: United Nations Office for the Coordination of Human Affairs
[Obtained by calculation: total deaths (civilian plus combatant) during the period was 6,269; data for previous 7 years showed a civilian/combatant split of 59/41; assumed same split for 2008-2023]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli–Palestinian_conflict
Anyone trying to paint Israel’s attacks on Palestinian civilians as being deadlier than Russia’s attacks on Ukrainian civilians is either talking out of pure ignorance, or lying. Russia’s military is slaughtering Ukrainian civilians at nearly 30 times the rate that Israel’s military is killing Palestinian civilians.
Some people here in the comfortable West have a seriously deluded misunderstanding of the sheer scale of what Russia is inflicting upon Ukraine, if they think pointing fingers at Israel cuts it in this debate.
Edit: just saw WWP’s post above. Gee, that was unfortunate timing.
“Finally admitted it despite bluffing for years. Oh. And you are anti-semitic as well. Not just anti-Israel.”
This is just so deeply stupid it would be hilarious if I didn’t believe you are actually despicable enough and our stupid to enough to actually mean it.
So the State of Israel consistently and deliberately conflates any opposition to its crimes against humanity as antisemitism.
This is a deeply evil propaganda, not as evil as shooting kids in the back and bulldozing villages, but deeply deeply evil.
Now some idiot here types the insane line about jews never levelling a village. They are pretty thoroughly dumb but compared to you they are a genius. Are you completely unaware of the entire old testament / torah? Completely unfamiliar with ideas like ‘kill them all and don’t spare the women and children’? Jericho anyone?
Now just to take the record of nasty and stupid, although the State of Israel consistently conflates the State of Israel with all jews, you are arguing that considering the State of Israel as jewish, and not being a strong supporter of shooting kids in the back for fun, and levelling villages for profit is antisemitic.
As I said this would be hilarious if I didn’t actually believe you are that dumb and that despicable.
“Anyone trying to paint Israel’s attacks on Palestinian civilians as being deadlier than Russia’s attacks on Ukrainian civilians is either talking out of pure ignorance, or lying. Russia’s military is slaughtering Ukrainian civilians at nearly 30 times the rate that Israel’s military is killing Palestinian civilians.”
No-one did mate, and TPOF may be a complete idiot but I know you are not so this little misrepresentation isn’t through stupidity it is through just gross nastiness and dishonesty.
Some other poster made the claim that Russians levelled villages and the jews never ever have. I simply pointed out how stupid that claim was, if indeed, as they consistently claim, the State of Israel is Jewish.
There was no moral equivalence, or in your case defence of crimes against humanity as good, other than from you and it is pretty disappointing to see you diminish crimes against humanity in one place while so consistently demanding them in the other place. The hypocrisy is sickening and a complete discredit to you and what you post. Shame on you. Shame. Shame. Shame.
“Edit: just saw WWP’s post above. Gee, that was unfortunate timing.”
I’m not sure if this is doubling down, or acknowledging your error. If it is the later my apologies.
Gee there are some right wing Kool Aid gluggers on this board.
WeWantPaul @ Thursday, June 8, 2023 at 11:17 pm:
===========
WWP, like I said, it was bad timing I was compiling my post while you were posting yours. I know full well you are not, and never have, tried to brush off Ukraine’s suffering at the hands of Russia as nothing compared to the Palestinians at the hands of Israelis. My post was directed at Watermelon, who had tried to brush aside my “J’accuse!” against Russia with:
“ You can call the Ukrainian forces’ actions in the Donbas since 2014 “genocidal” by a similar standard. Not saying it’s wrong, because words take their meaning from how they are used, but this is not an ethnic cleansing like poor bloody Palestine.”
It was Watermelon’s outrageous insinuation that Ukrainian suffering was to be brushed off compared to ‘real suffering’ like the Palestinians that enraged me. So, I dug up the facts to blow his lying off the park.
I apologise to you for offending you. I truly did not mean you when I wrote my post.
Edit: I see you just saw my own previous edit. Yes, that edit was an apology.
“Gee there are some right wing Kool Aid gluggers on this board.”
But to be fair to the broad range of people who but for lacking his intelligence and having less moral fibre are the embodiment of the worst aspects of Richo, we knew that before we came here.
I despise Likud and other related fascists in Israel. I guess that makes me an anti Semite in the eyes of the clowns on here. What was I thinking? I thought hating fascists was a good thing. Apparently not!
“I apologise to you for offending you. I truly did not mean you when I wrote my post.”
No no, my apologies, my tirade incorrectly assumed your post was a response to my post, when the timing was just bad. I accept fully I was wrong and that you did not deserve any of the tirade.
“I despise Likud and other related fascists in Israel. I guess that makes me an anti Semite in the eyes of the clowns on here. What was I thinking? I thought hating fascists was a good thing. Apparently not!”
I’m honestly confused, I understand why conflating criticism of Israel with antisemitism is intellectually and morally bankrupt, but I don’t understand how considering Israel Jewish is antisemitic. Put crudely from an outsiders point of view isn’t the whole point of the Israeli apartheid state to be a homeland for Jewish people? Don’t they accept people from all over the world so long as they are Jewish while denying the right of return to Palestinians with a much more direct connection to the land? Isn’t that most of the point?
I was honestly stunned by the reaction.
Evening all. There is no point engaging with Watermelon. Regardless of who they are, in my experience communists/Russian imperialist trolls will not engage in honest debate, let alone admit they are wrong. And since they consider past history itself a mistake, they are completely comfortable lying about it. They see this as an intellectual strength, not a character weakness.
You have to develop an Orwellian kind of logic to still be pro-communist or pro-authoritarianism thirty years after the cold war proved they failed.