The Australian reports the second Newspoll since the election has produced an even weaker result for the Coalition than the first four weeks ago, with Labor’s two-party lead out from 56-44 to 57-43. Labor’s primary vote is steady at 37%, with the Coalition down two to 31% – their equal worst result in Newspoll history, matching the third poll under the Rudd government in February-March 2008 – with the Greens up one to 13%, One Nation up one to 7% (their strongest result in three years) and the United Australia Party steady on 2%.
Anthony Albanese is steady on 61% approval and up three on disapproval to 29%, while Peter Dutton is down two on approval to 35% and up two on disapproval to 43%. Albanese’s lead as preferred prime minister has widened from 59-25 to 61-22. The poll was conducted Wednesday to Saturday from a sample of 1505.
“WWP
The evidence is clear. Nationalising the gas industry would cost half a trillion. Or would the Greens just grab it? Please explain.”
If you are talking about the English proposal, given the trouble they find themselves in that could easily be one of the best ways out.
If they’ve suggested the same thing in Australia I can’t find it, if you are in Australia and you want to deal with domgas issues, you could insert a natural gas retailer that is publicly owned for a lot less than that, and just deny anyone export permits until they sell the gas to the public gas retailer. Crude highlevel stuff, but detail can always be worked out.
National and natural monopolies are just no brainers, should never have been private.
WeWantPaul @ #547 Tuesday, September 6th, 2022 – 3:23 pm
Don’t really now anything about Power Query, but Indexes? Work wonders with lots of data stuff.
I find that the Green’s claims of being ready to “negotiate in good faith” with the Government has no credibility. The Greens parliamentary group has a record of deceptive and unconscionable behaviour when it comes to negotiation. They have always been all about “ratcheting” their demands.
As has been pointed out here on many occasions, their very existence depends upon levering off votes from the ALP. Accordingly, they will do whatever it takes to pursue their aims for growth. They are now up to 12%.
The ALP has, it seems, finally recognised that they are actually an enemy, despite their preference flow (hardly surprising given where the votes originated from). I am hopeful that their past growth to 12% will reverse more steeply in the future.
Their attempted bastardisation of the Voice is but the latest of their wreckers wreck tactics. The Greens may find it hard to live this down.
“WWP
Try being abusive towards it.”
Already tried that, it has the selfawareness to know it isn’t even in the class of best products, but like Qantas some low cost employers want to use the almost free, even when it cost billions more.
“Don’t really now anything about Power Query, but Indexes? Work wonders with lots of data stuff.”
Thanks, will see what I can dig up / cook up.
WWP,
Try nationalising it?
Apparently it works magically on business processes.
Rex Douglassays:
Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 2:56 pm
Well with her public comments on the Voice, is there any room for engagement?
As to other issues relating to Indigenous policy, then that’s a different matter.
“WWP,
Try nationalising it?
Apparently it works magically on business processes.”
I have thought for many decades that nationalising an open standard for IT, and key business software and adopting it across the public service as mandatory, was a solid idea. I still think it would be very effective. You could outsource much of the development of the standard to the unis.
You don’t need to nationalise microsoft you just need to find a way to make them irrelevant.
If it isn’t economically viable for the government to purchase Qantas back, then they need to end any further public funding for this utterly incompetent clusterfuck of a company and let market forces sort them out. They have long since lost any right to taxpayers’ money.
What happened at Narita Airport a couple of weeks ago was so negligent it borders on criminal. People could have died!
https://www.afr.com/world/asia/no-food-or-water-jetstar-passengers-stranded-inside-tokyo-terminal-20220829-p5bdj8
wranslide
+1 on the shares issues. Own goal.
Not sure what the Joyce issue is.
Schumpeter wept!
“If it isn’t economically viable for the government to purchase Qantas back, then they need to end any further public funding for this utterly incompetent clusterfuck of a company and let market forces sort them out. They have long since lost any right to taxpayers’ money.”
We could almost certainly have got 100% ownership for little more than Morrison threw at it. The opposition to nationalisation, particularly in natural monopolies and some other industries including national carriers, is wholly rooted in ideology and divorced from thought or reality.
The Greens approach to the Voice has been to tell everyone to WTTE ‘fuck off’ and then to expect everyone else to come crawling.
It might work.
Buying QANTAS back would cost around $7 billion. It is making substantial losses. It competes against heavily subsidised national carriers. I suppose it is a plan. But what is the point? To demonstrate the superior economic nous of the Greens? To subsidise middle class passengers? What?
Yeh Lidia’s approach is just that, no different to Pauline Hanson.
It is good to see thst Labor has created 20,000 new uni places and that these will prioritize m, inter alia, Indigenous students.
The Greens need to make their minds up. Are they going to nationalise the coal, gas and oil industries? Or just shut them down?
WWP
Air travel is not a natural monopoly.
Fox Footy will remain the home for every AFL match until the end of 2031, after the league signed a new broadcast rights deal with incumbents Foxtel and Seven. It is the richest deal in Australian sports broadcasting history, costing $4.5 billion.
Some good news that the MSM buries.
WeWantPaul @ #558 Tuesday, September 6th, 2022 – 3:41 pm
There’s history in Germany along those lines. If you search for “Munich Hamburg Linux” you should generate links to articles going back a decade or more. I followed Munich’s experiment with Linux with interest, in the late 00’s and early 10’s, to see them switch back to Windows in 2017 and then switch back again to Linux (or start to) in 2020. From my reading the decisions (back and forth) were mostly politically (ideologically?) motivated. Hamburg recently joined with Munich to bootstrap their own process, again along political lines.
“WWP
Air travel is not a natural monopoly.”
It has a lot of the same characteristics, or you couldn’t have made your point about a lot of subsidised national carriers. Although you didn’t seem aware of the billions we just ‘gave’ it for nothing recently, which makes its survival taxpayer subsidised.
But if you have state owned airports, as would be sensible, then they are a natural monopoly, and flights between them are in a context of limited competition.
The whole idea of a ‘national’ carrier kind of gives the game away.
Re Qantas.
We flew domestic with Qantas as few weeks ago. We were both mobility impaired at the time.
I was very nervous after all the issues of cancellations and missing bags.
We had a very good experience and the customer service staff once we checked in were very helpful.
Government has better things to do than own an airline because buying Qantas will only increase cost to government and make the government responsible for its performance and that opens up another line of political attack on the government.
WWP
Air travel is not a natural monopoly. The Greens’ call to nationalize QANTAS is yet another neo-Stalinist populist brainfart.
Boerwar:
You don’t see the value in our country having access to an airline that actually functions? If – as is looking increasingly likely – Qantas completely collapses, I can’t imagine the economic consequences will be very good.
How much money has been spent propping up this unfolding disaster over the last decade? At least we get something out of buying the company. I’m sure Qantas in its current state is a dreadful investment, but that’s down to how poorly it has been managed. Yes, it would have taken a hit in the pandemic, but so did every other airline in the world, and most of them have managed to avoid shitting the bed to this degree.
Which isn’t to say that a nationalised can’t be just as mismanaged. Of course it can. But at least it would actually be accountable to people who would (theoretically) give a damn, rather than the most complacent shareholders who have ever lived. Just… How does Alan Joyce even still have a job? He should be standing on a street corner begging for change right now.
Whatever the merits or lack thereof of nationalisation – and I appreciate this is a complex issue with many pros and cons, and that it may not be at all practical at the present time – I absolutely cannot see the value in continuing to throw taxpayer funds into the black hole of incompetence that is modern-day Qantas. You would be better off setting the money on fire.
l
That is good news!
“Government has better things to do than own an airline because buying Qantas will only increase cost to government and make the government responsible for its performance and that opens up another line of political attack on the government.”
This is one of those stupidities where say for example the USA keep saying Govt can’t do universal healthcare, but capable nations are doing just that.
The NZ Govt owns a majority of shares in Air New Zealand, and I would fly them in preference to Qantas any day, and they are a well run airline unlike the clusterf*ck that is Qantas, and New Zealand people are proud of their airline.
It is just deeply dumb how people have convinced themselves Govts can’t do great things, when all the evidence is the opposite.
I took Singapore Airlines when I left Australia a few weeks ago. Wonderful experience. Decent legroom for economy, friendly and helpful staff, the planes took off and landed when they were supposed to, and my possessions didn’t dissapear into the ether. It was cheaper than Qantas too.
Asha
1. You are conflating issues.
2. Throwing a massive subsidy at QANTAS while it was systematically screwing its workforce was a classic Coalition double play.
3. Air travel is not a natural monopoly. If it were a natural monopoly I would support nationalising it.
4. If the Greens had policy brains rather than populist stunting brains they would have identified the real natural monopoly in air travel- airports.
WWP
Taking Qantas over is different to buying shares in it and if the government did take it over then it is taking on the cost of running it and the responsibility for its performance.
Boerwar says:
Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 3:51 pm
“Buying QANTAS back would cost around $7 billion. It is making substantial losses. It competes against heavily subsidised national carriers. I suppose it is a plan. But what is the point? To demonstrate the superior economic nous of the Greens? To subsidise middle class passengers? What?”
And albeit that it was possibly a mistake to privatise in the first place, it’s not an essential service therefore doesn’t deserve consideration of a government buyback, there are after all more critical areas if they were to do such things.
wranslide at 3.31 pm
If the university bigwigs start flying in the ordinary cabin, real reform may be possible. All those in “business class” are committed to increasing emissions well above average.
Asha
Have ALWAYS had good experiences flying Singapore Airlines.
Why do the Greens want to subsidise middle- and upper-class passengers to emit more carbon dioxide?
Albo from Marketing
https://www.themonthly.com.au/the-politics/rachel-withers/2022/09/06/hollow-mien
ajm @ #552 Tuesday, September 6th, 2022 – 3:33 pm
You should use a database (eg SQL Server and Analytics) for data handling and analysis, not a horrific shambles like Excel. If your workplace insists on primitive methods, with stupid restrictions, I would strongly advise you to change workplaces, and take the opportunity to utilise the correct tools for a job. Using a warped swiss army knife where a chisel is indicated is neither efficient or accurate.
I suppose one way to.persuade the Greens that nationalizing QANTAS is bad as well as stupid is to remind them that having a national carrier during war time is useful.
Beorwar.
Mate, I literally could not give a shit about the Greens’ position on this. As you well know, I’m not a Green. I’ve supported buying Qantas back well before Elizabeth Watson-Brown brought it up today.
I don’t see how airlines being a monopoly or not has anything to do with it. The government owns lots of things that aren’t monopolies. And as far as domestic flights go, Qantas is dangerously close to being a monopoly, anyway. Yes, you’ve got Virgin but it doesn’t have anywhere near Qantas’ market share – there are plenty of situations where Qantas and Jetstar are pretty much the only options available.
If it’s not a viable option, then fair enough. I think it’s something worth looking into regardless. If it can’t be done at the moment, then just let the whole shambles collapse and pick it up for a song when the inevitable happens. (Though by that point the name would be so tarnished that a total rebranding would probably be needed.)
As for your point on airports, well, you’re probably right about that being something that needs to be sorted too.
People are totally missing the point wrt buying back Qantas. I just listened to Senator Tony Sheldon give an impressive speech in support of Multi Employer Bargaining. He used Qantas as an example. Did you know that Qantas has outsourced its operations to about 10 different employers of the Qantas workforce? These multinational Labour Hire firms that the workforce are employed by are ruthless. They will just discard a worker like a dirty tissue if they cause them too much trouble and so that is also how they keep the workforce under the thumb and not getting real wage increases. So a virtue of multi employer bargaining would be if the workers at Qantas could band together and place pressure on the company for realistic wage rises and decent conditions. Otherwise the divide and conquer practices of the companies Qantas outsources to will continue to rule.
So, what would be the point of buying a shell, which is all Qantas is anymore? A flying kangaroo symbol and vehicle for a massive salary for Alan Joyce.
Asha
I rather like airlines that charge too much, which treat passengers with contempt, which are unreliable and which lose luggage with aplomb.
Anything that reduces air travel has got to be good for zero 45.
I also question why taxlayers should subsidize middle- and upper class air travel
Given the losses being made, in spite of the subsidies it has received, I would not have thought 7 billion was required to buy QANTAS back. Simply remove the subsidies and let it go bust (which it almost certainly will at some stage) Then take it back for a peppercorn if you want to run it. The government could make any alternative ownership of QANTAS unlikely quite easily with some appropriate statements. Some banks might get stiffed a few bucks, but that’s the risk you take lending to an airline.
Beorwar:
I’ve spent my entire working life several tax brackets below what anyone would consider middle class. The main reason I went overseas was to escape the cost-of-living crisis back home and experience the decadent luxury of seeing my bank balance increase from week to week again. It’s been over four years since I last left the country.
So, you can GAGF with that middle and upper class bullshit. Poor people fly too.
Zwaktyld:
Agreed.
A subsided national carrier at the time of say, i don`t know, a pandemic would have been handy to get people stranded home
I note that media coverage now includes criticism of Albanese over his dog and saying he was now living back in public housing etc etc
And Andrews has called out the dribble the media is presenting in Victoria
As an example, if a Report is being hidden how come media are reporting it, focusing on lives lost not the reasons covered off by the author of the Report. So numbers would have died regardless of the response time which is the fact with 000 calls for assistance. It is an emergency number called in a life threatening emergency such as a fatal heart arrest
Murdoch, Stokes and Costello never change – they are unabashed ALP bashers , their attacks also personal (so they seek to destroy by attacking the head)
They are a threat to democracy it not only democracy in the USA which is under threat
The uneducated telling their fellow uneducated what they do not know
Their audience continues to drop
andrewmck at 2.31 pm
You did not seem to comprehend the end of this sentence that you quoted:
“The better choice for Labor is to respond seriously to Senator Thorpe’s position, which means meeting with her, having a genuine discussion, and proceeding with common action on issues of Aboriginal justice, then let Senator Thorpe make her choice for Yes.”
The last part means Senator Thorpe chooses to support the Voice as already outlined.
That implies no negotiation about the implementation in full of the Statement from the Heart. The negotiation is about the process of getting to a successful referendum. For many reasons, the sooner the referendum is held, the higher the chances for Yes.
Simply put, if Senator Thorpe is persuaded to endorse Yes, the chances of a successful Yes vote increase a lot. There is also a timing factor. The lazy, wedge approach to the Greens would mean getting Senator Thorpe’s acquiescence to the referendum only belatedly and by default, just because the Greens can’t afford to line up with Hanson.
There is an alternative, which is to negotiate about responding urgently to parallel issues of concern for Senator Thorpe, such as Aboriginal deaths in custody, in the expectation that action in that area (which should be done anyway) will assist Senator Thorpe in convincing her supporters (including outside the Greens) to support Yes.
If you presume that Senator Thorpe has no grass roots support among First Nations communities, you are mistaken. She could possibly obstruct the road to a successful referendum, in a way that Senator Price could not, despite her Murdoch supporters. Burney and Pat Dodson are most probably aware of Thorpe’s potential importance.
Even if one accepts all of Boerwar’s finer elements of dissatisfaction with the Greens, there is a political problem here for those who wish the Voice referendum to succeed. Rarely, if at all, is it sensible to dismiss the views of those who you need to persuade. If Burney and Dodson are talking to Thorpe and Cox, that is a potentially hopeful sign.
As for the Greens, here is a 4 month old statement from Bandt expressing support for implementing the Uluru Statement “in full”. They will lose many votes if they do not support Yes, and most if not all the Greens MPs must be aware of that. Back-tracking on the Voice would be as bad for the Greens as the GST was for the Democrats. But that does not mean Labor should take the lazy approach of using a wedge, not persuasion. As in other areas of life involving misunderstanding, the best form of persuasion is often joint practical action in which people with differences agree to work together.
https://greens.org.au/news/uluru-statement-heart
Our family lived through the GFC in the USA, one effect of which was houses repossessed and sold with people ending up still owing money on loans even after they no longer had a house. It was quite a problem for a while. (And cash was king.) I believe Australia largely escaped the full effect of the GFC, so perhaps Australians aren’t as sensitised to this potential problem. But it has me wondering about the dual effect of raising interest rates while house prices fall. House prices in capital cities are down 3.8 percent for the year while interest rates have risen 2.25% since May.
At some point a growing number of people won’t be able to service their loans and those houses will need to be sold to pay the outstanding loan, driving down prices further. I have no idea how ugly it could get, but should we be concerned?
Zwaktyld @ #592 Tuesday, September 6th, 2022 – 4:48 pm
All the government need to do is buy the rights to the Flying Kangaroo insignia. Possibly Jetstar too. I suppose the landing spots at the airport would cost something to retain and the infrastructure at the airports for check in and departure. Everything else is Labour Hire and they will just melt away without a cash cow to milk.
Asha
The poorest 20% in Australia can not afford to fly.