The Essential Research poll series continues to chug along on its fortnightly schedule without offering anything on voting intention, with this week’s survey mainly relating to bushfires and climate change. Support for the proposition that Australia is not doing enough to address climate change have reached a new high of 60%, up nine since March, with “doing enough” down five to 22% and “doing too much” down three to 8%.
However, perceptions of climate change itself are little changed, with 61% attributing it to human activity (down one) and 28% opting for “a normal fluctuation in the earth’s climate”. On the debate as to whether it was appropriate to raise links between climate change and bushfires, opinion was evenly divided – out of those who considered such a link likely, 43% felt raising the matter appropriate compared with 17% for inappropriate, while another 30% rated the link as unlikely.
A further question related to the issue of medical evacuations for asylum seekers, and here the situation is murkier due to the need to provide respondents with some sort of explanation of what the issue is about. As the Essential survey put it, the relevant legislation allows “doctors, not politicians, more say in determining the appropriate medical
treatment offered to people in offshore detention”. Put like that, 62% were opposed to the government’s move to repeal it, including 25% who believed the legislation didn’t go far enough. That left only 22% in favour of the pro-government proposition that “legislation will weaken our borders and result in boats arriving”.
The poll was conducted Thursday to Sunday from a sample of 1083.
Depends what you mean by irrelevant.
How can one prosecute a case for the climate emergency while at the same time be seen to support, or oversee, the opening of new coal mines?
Jeff,
I agree with most of your assessment but your last comment is either stupid or disingenuous:
The last ALP government implemented a carbon tax and encouraged the development of renewable energy sources. Emissions were falling.
The LNP government abolished the carbon tax and now emissions are rising.
Given the mines are irrelevant to how much coal is burnt, then … however one would otherwise prosecute a case for the climate emergency.
We’ve got to radically reduce the amount of CO2 pumped into the atmosphere. Prosecute that case.
New coal mines, old coal mines, open, closed, whatever … massive distraction from what matters.
P1
Your just another that wants panic instead of solid path to take advantage of what is happening.
You don’t get people on side by telling them tokenism matters, it is bullshit.
Adani will never happen because the revolution is well under way, I know you’re fully on the Liberals and Greens side trying to pretend it is not, but that is not going to change things, ignoring what is going on just makes the eventual reckoning harder.
In the end mother nature is going to bust the Liberals fairytail. The revolution is going to become more obvious, it will make the news, this will bust the ‘we need the Greens for a revolution’ fairytail.
I am confident you will continue to post nonsense; it will be different, you seem to be walking away from your gas fetish. Cable direct to Singapore, you walking away from that yet?
Jolyon Wagg @ #352 Wednesday, November 27th, 2019 – 6:05 pm
You’d think the ALP would wear this as a badge of honour.
But, nothing. Crickets.
It’s the Labor way.
Jackol says:
….
New coal mines, old coal mines, open, closed, whatever … massive distraction from what matters.
Exactly, demand has to be reduced. The greens focus on a bit player, in the scheme of things, tells you a lot about the Greens. CO2 from carbon dug in Indonesia is no different to CO2 from carbon dug in Australia. There needs to be no market for either.
mundo says:
Wednesday, November 27, 2019 at 6:15 pm
…
You’d think the ALP would wear this as a badge of honour.
But, nothing. Crickets.
It’s the Labor way.
And you would think the the Greens and people like you would not try and down sell labor’s achievements, but it is no the case is it. Another same same from the same quarters such nonsense is expected, today.
Trumps madness doesn’t seem to have any limits or grounding in reality anymore.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/472201-trump-says-he-stood-up-to-the-deep-state-by-intervening-in-war-crime-cases
I almost feel sorry for the idiots who believe that he’s there for them and is fighting for them every day.
And just to add to that, Quiggin is usually right. He’s a very clever fellow.
Australia’s dirty great secret by Fergus Green & Richard Denniss
https://www.tai.org.au/content/australias-dirty-great-secret
lefty e says:
Wednesday, November 27, 2019 at 5:10 pm
Yeah Im not sure why Labor failed to highlight the revolving door Lib PM situation during the election. Makes you question their political judgement
-00-
And right now, if they had the money, they should be running a TV ad showing Morrison and his gang repeatedly rejecting the idea of a Royal Commission into banking, then clips showing the bankers’ doing the Perp Walk, and closing with Shorten pointing out how much the banks would get from the Tories tax cuts.
AM
Boerwar reckons Quiggin has “jumped the shark”.
Andy Murray says:
Wednesday, November 27, 2019 at 6:39 pm
And just to add to that, Quiggin is usually right. He’s a very clever fellow.
True but he seems to be all for chucking out the baby with the bath water. He campaigned hard against the Bligh government for selling pine plantations. That worked out well.
Jackol @ #349 Wednesday, November 27th, 2019 – 5:58 pm
Christ, not another one 🙁
Pegasus
Ya ignore demand, what a bunch of wankers you are.
I could be wrong but I can’t remember one post where you looked at what is going on and supported it.
Bob brown’s effort against wind farms seems to be the extent of it.
Player One says:
Wednesday, November 27, 2019 at 6:46 pm
…
Christ, not another one
Given the election result I’d say you would find more than one or two. But hem most can work out demand is the issue.
frednk @ #354 Wednesday, November 27th, 2019 – 6:09 pm
I am in favor of gas as a transition fuel in place of coal and other fuels that emit more carbon. I am not in favor of gas as a fuel in other circumstances, nor am I in favor of unconventional gas extraction under any circumstances.
And you want to invest in a cable to send solar-powered electricity to Singapore, while Australia continues to burn coal?
You really are as clueless as you seem, aren’t you? Or you are just dishonest 🙁
KayJay says:
Wednesday, November 27, 2019 at 5:58 pm
poroti @ #341 Wednesday, November 27th, 2019 – 5:48 pm
KayJay
Regarding the Certificate of Sanity. Will it be OK to share a certificate ? I ask in case Bludgers need to pool their sanities to obtain enough sanity for a complete one.
Cripes, as the actress said to the Bishop “that’s a hard one”.
Offhand I guess that would be OK although I suspect that the Gummints privatizing of Sanity Certificate Issuance will see a flood of counterfeits. Maybe a note from the lady next door would help. I am busy trying to get Brown Bear to sign my certificate (unsuccessfully so far).
-0-
“You can’t fool me, there ain’t no Sanity clause.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_Sy6oiJbEk
frednk @ #366 Wednesday, November 27th, 2019 – 6:50 pm
I wonder how many people honestly “accept the science” but also believe opening new coal mines is the answer.
Not many, I think.
P1
Some people can walk and chew gum.
We are now in the situation where the Australian investment in renewables is falling.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/sep/12/angus-taylor-taken-to-task-over-sudden-drop-in-renewable-energy-investment
That is the real story, not a two bit mine that will never open because other countries are investing faster than us.
The apologists for the likes of Canavan and the caravan of LNP coalers, with their sponsors Adani, Clive and Gina, parading as loyal laborites, seems so often an actual parody. Seems to usually only takes a few days before the current LNP talking points and some of the talking points on PB line up as well.
Pretty clear that both supply and demand of fossil fuels should dry up, well before the nations rivers completely do, before more intense ecological breakdown, storm and fire too.
Also seems pretty widely accepted by people outside the duopoly bubble and donors meetings that some in Aust are captive to the fossil fuel industry. Quite happy to provide whatever drivel they think is current at the time to support their opinion.
On that note, these notes
Opinion Rhapsody
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IABRgZH12YA
frednk @ #370 Wednesday, November 27th, 2019 – 6:57 pm
So you oppose opening new thermal coal mines?
P1 –
Yes. Another one. The one who has had this exact discussion with you before, and you did your little survey to collect opinions on whether Adani should be approved.
Quaint how you choose to forget these things so you can start your spiel afresh every day.
beguiledagain
Wednesday, November 27th, 2019 – 6:55 pm
Comment #348
I confess to being “Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered” by your post. So much so that I will now conduct a frantic search to unearth the Marx Brothers “Night at the Opera”. Thank you VM. ✔
frednk
When you aren’t verballing and misrepresenting you are tediously repetitious.
You really need some new material to engage anyone who is remotely interested in what you have to say.
Frednk: ‘greens have never been more than bit players. In most cases they have used there little bit to destroy.’
Exactly, they have played their (bit) part in ensuring the current environment haters are in charge. Hence:
Environment killers = The Greens.
FDOTM has Taylor’s measure.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/27/serial-gateist-angus-taylor-and-the-mystery-of-the-faked-documents
‘Nicholas says:
Wednesday, November 27, 2019 at 5:19 pm
Corbyn’s opponents are shamelessly confecting an anti-semitism crisis in an effort to discredit Corbyn. When you look at what has actually happened, a few hundred people in an organization of half a million have been accused of making anti-semitic speech acts that did not result in any harmful actions against Jewish people. Those incidents are being investigated, and some people have been expelled from the party as a consequence. The amount of time that the centrist and right-wing media have devoted to this issue is far out of proportion to the scale and severity of the problem. Corbyn’s opponents know what they are doing. They aren’t protecting Jewish people. They are aiming to undermine Corbyn.’
This is an outrageous post. Let’s unpick just how bad it really is.
‘When you look at what has actually happened, a few hundred people in an organization of half a million have been accused of making anti-semitic speech acts that did not result in any harmful actions against Jewish people.’
What has ‘actually’ happened? The facts.
The Chakrabaty Report, while using oblique language, belled the cat. Labour had a significant problem with anti-semitism.
Some 350 people have belatedly been kicked out of the Party. An unknown number of others are being investigated. Some of those ‘investigations’ have taken over a year.
Two Labor MPs have quit because of serial anti-semitism. Another seven who quit nominated anti-semitism as one of their reasons for quitting.
Your notion that anti-semitic speech is not harmful to Jewish people is, IMO, outrageous.
‘The amount of time that the centrist and right-wing media have devoted to this issue is far out of proportion to the scale and severity of the problem.’
What would be the right proportion, in your considered view? I have previously challenged you to provide some statistics. You did not then and you do not now.
‘Corbyn’s opponents know what they are doing.’ Indeed. They are calling out anti-semitism in the Labour Party.
Corbyn has called Heshbollah ‘friends’. Heshbollah is a proxy for Iran. In its own right, Heshbollah has been doing a lot of the hard yards fighting for Assad in Syria. Heshbollah and Iran share an anti-semitic fixation about driving the Jews into the Mediterranean.
‘They aren’t protecting Jewish people.’ In fact calling out anti-semitism is a practical first step to protecting Jewish people.
‘They are aiming to undermine Corbyn.’ In relation to anti-semitism, IMO, he deserves it.
IMO you really need to take a good hard look at the way in which you are colluding in British Labor’s anti-semitism instead of calling it to account.
Mick Fuller said today in a doorstep interview, “The Prime Minister didn’t ask me any questions that were inappropriate.
This is the man who believes random strip searches of 14 year old schoolgirls in order to make them “fear the Police” is appropriate.
I have a post up on Western Australian state politics, for those of you who like that kind of thing:
https://www.pollbludger.net/2019/11/27/matters-western-australian/
There’s also a dedicated British election post, just FYI:
https://www.pollbludger.net/2019/11/26/uk-election-minus-16-days/
BB
I may be wrong but I think that was the minister David Elliot, but I take your point.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/nov/06/nsw-police-minister-defends-strip-searching-of-children-saying-parents-would-be-happy
Jackol @ #373 Wednesday, November 27th, 2019 – 7:01 pm
Apologies Jackol, I just checked, and you did indeed vote in favour of new coal mines.
So my various references to the “three amigos” here should really have been the “four musketeers” … “All for one (coal mine), and two for all (coal mines)!”
I will use this term in future, to make sure you are included. However, the point remains – you shouldn’t expect to be taken seriously if you claim to “accept the science” but support opening new thermal coal mines. You are in fact contradicting 11,000 of the very scientists who actually do the science you pretend to “accept” 🙁
Oh the humanity. Wild eyed baying mobs roaming the land randomly burning saintly bankster CEOs at the stake. Woe !
by Stephen Bartholomeusz
https://www.smh.com.au/business/banking-and-finance/surrendering-to-the-mob-westpac-s-plight-will-be-chilling-for-corporate-australia-20191127-p53emy.html
The federal government has admitted a key element of the controversial “robodebt” system is unlawful in a landmark court case that lawyers believe could open the door for hundreds of thousands of welfare recipients to be repaid.
The government agreed in the Federal Court on Wednesday that it acted unlawfully when it raised a robodebt of $2754 against plaintiff Deanna Amato, added a penalty fee and took her tax return.
The government, which had already refunded Ms Amato the $1709 it had taken from her tax return, must now also reimburse the interest she could have earned on the money and pay her legal costs.
“I had my money refunded to me, but I hope that others who have paid dodgy debts will also have a way to get their money back,” Ms Amato said.
The orders by Federal Court Justice Jennifer Davies said the Centrelink decision-maker “could not have been satisfied that a debt was owed in the amount of the alleged debt” based solely on tax data.
Rowan McRae, Victoria Legal Aid executive director of civil justice, access and equity, said the case showed the income averaging method used to calculate debt was unlawful.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/landmark-case-finds-key-element-of-robodebt-is-unlawful-20191127-p53eq2.html
Pegasus says:
Wednesday, November 27, 2019 at 7:04 pm
frednk
When you aren’t verballing and misrepresenting you are tediously repetitious.
You really need some new material to engage anyone who is remotely interested in what you have to say.
My goal is simple to point out how sanctimonious and how damaging the greens have been to the environmental movement every time a green post the same, same-same nonsense.
The UK media’s coverage of the “Labour anti-semitism crisis” has lacked perspective, proportion, context, and caveats. It routinely gives prominence to anti-Corbyn Jewish voices while silencing pro-Corbyn Jewish voices. It ignores the role that factional rivalry plays in fuelling this issue. It relies time after time on the same narrow set of sources. It employs a dodgy definition of anti-semitism that encompasses legitimate criticism of Israeli Government policy. The coverage of this issue reveals a very poor quality of journalism.
https://theconversation.com/debate-jeremy-corbyn-antisemitism-and-the-british-media-102727
P1 –
You’ve conflated, as you always do, coal mines with coal burning.
Since you’ve referred to the 11 000 scientists, you must be specifically referring to the recently publicized statement:
https://academic.oup.com/bioscience/advance-article/doi/10.1093/biosci/biz088/5610806
I heartily agree with everything in this statement.
That statement does include the following:
But acknowledges that this actually ain’t gonna happen immediately because reality:
But on the specific discussion about “new coal mines” it actually says nothing.
It correctly focuses on GHG emissions.
Opening or closing a coal mine won’t change the amount of coal burnt, and hence won’t have any meaningful impact on GHG emissions.
That is the important point, and one that you and others distract from every time you focus on coal mines – new or old.
If preventing a coal mine from opening had any chance of reducing the amount of coal burnt, and hence the amount of GHG emissions, I would be first to fervently advocate for this.
But there is no such linkage. Fiddling around on the supply side will have negligible effect on the amount of coal burnt, and as such it is a very dangerous distraction, diverting scant political will from the actual task at hand which is to get the Australian government to do everything in its power to reduce our greenhouse emissions through promoting renewables, pricing carbon, stopping land clearing, whatever it takes, and to work constructively internationally to promote similar action around the world.
Closing mines/preventing mines from opening will not do anything to prevent GHG emissions.
And that is where I leave this conversation because I am not going to play your little games. If someone wants to have a genuine discussion on this, I am up for it.
I’m not sure what goes on in the mind of someone who decides to end their life under a train.
I can’t imagine how bad a person’s situation must be that they do this.
I know it’s going to take a while to get that sound out of my head.
Jackol @ #387 Wednesday, November 27th, 2019 – 7:53 pm
What part of “We should leave remaining stocks of fossil fuels in the ground” did you not understand?
I’m not acquainted with the UK Labour ‘anti-Semitism’ imbroglio. I had assumed that it was a beatup by the Noise Machine, rather like the beatup of some inept comments by the NSW Opposition Leader about ‘Chinese with PhDs’.
If there’s anything in it, what do you do, especially in a First Past the Post system. Vote for the Tories who, like ours, include racist dogwhistling in their business model? Vote for the Liberals or a minor party and most probably waste your vote? The mote in Labour’s eye verses the beam in the Tories’.
And criticising Israel or supporting its enemies, however ill-judged, is not ipso facto, anti Semitism.
‘Nicholas says:
Wednesday, November 27, 2019 at 7:43 pm
The UK media’s coverage of the “Labour anti-semitism crisis” has lacked perspective, proportion, context, and caveats. It routinely gives prominence to anti-Corbyn Jewish voices while silencing pro-Corbyn Jewish voices. It ignores the role that factional rivalry plays in fuelling this issue. It relies time after time on the same narrow set of sources. It employs a dodgy definition of anti-semitism that encompasses legitimate criticism of Israeli Government policy. The coverage of this issue reveals a very poor quality of journalism.’
You continue to ignore valid criticisms of your views. Instead you repeat them with less rationality and with some added vehemence.
1. You have previously tried to argue that verbal anti-semitism does not matter if it does not lead to ‘harmful’ acts. As if the two can reasonably be separated. Given the context of language, prejudice and Jewish hate propaganda prior to the Holocaust, this is a singular lapse indeed. IMO it shows that you don’t have much of a clue about what ‘anti-semitism’ actually means.
2. You have previously tried to argue that the British Labour Party has similar levels of anti-semitism to other organisations. You do this without any statistical validation whatsoever. But why is ANY level acceptable? Apart from that I would have thought that any Left organization would be better than average on dealing with racism.
3. You have previously sought to downplay anti-semitism in the British Labour Party. You have done this by ignoring the Chakrabaty Report and the publicly available numbers. You resolutely refuse to deal with the fact that two British Labour MPs resigned because they felt they were driven out of the Party by anti-semitism. You resolutely refuse to deal with the fact that a further seven Labor MPs who quit the Party cited anti-semitism as one of the reasons.
4. You refuse to deal with the fact that Corbyn has referred to Heshbollah and Hamas as ‘friends’. Heshbolla is genocidally anti-semitic. It is currently one of the chief military supports of Dictator Assad of Syria.
5. You refuse to deal with the dozens of Facebook pages which were linked to Labor figures, including Corbyn, which were littered with anti-semitic tropes.
6. On the matter of what Jewish people themselves think, two things are obvious. The first is that a couple of prominent Jewish individuals and a single Jewish organisation linked to the British Labour Party have defended Corbyn and the British Labour Party against accusations of anti-semitism. But overwhelmingly, Jewish organisations whether they be within or without British Labour Party are seriously concerned with what they regard as an ongoing problem with anti-semitism.
7. You refer to ‘weaponising’ anti-semitism. So, Godwin aside, criticising Hitler for being anti-semitic would have been weaponising anti-semitism? Do explain what you mean.
You need to have a good hard look at why you are distorting reality in the systematic way you are distorting reality.
‘Steve777 says:
Wednesday, November 27, 2019 at 8:05 pm
And criticising Israel or supporting its enemies, however ill-judged, is not ipso facto, anti Semitism.’
Let’s say that the state of Israel does something you consider to be evil.
Let’s also say that there are dozens of other states that do things that are far worse.
Why single out Israel?
Aqualung says:
Wednesday, November 27, 2019 at 7:56 pm
I’m not sure what goes on in the mind of someone who decides to end their life under a train.
I can’t imagine how bad a person’s situation must be that they do this.
I know it’s going to take a while to get that sound out of my head.
It is all too common, and you will be happy to know when I googled for the article I was offered counseling
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/weekend-australian-magazine/train-drivers-suicide-and-tracks-of-tears/news-story/725a4296421082040acc2ef6c30e0802
frednk, I feel for the driver and guard. You could hear the strain in the guards voice. She was barely keeping it together.
I was in the first carriage. First thought was something had fallen off the train or it had run over something metallic.
Knowing the cause was unsettling.
Doris Day quoted on PB. Never thought I would have seen that.
Does anyone know what Lambies amendment is to the Medevac bill? Is it something totally unrelated like veterans affairs?
Dio
The condition has not been made public. From Lambie’s language, it appears to be directly related to the Medevac Bill.
KayJay says:
Wednesday, November 27, 2019 at 7:03 pm
beguiledagain
Wednesday, November 27th, 2019 – 6:55 pm
Comment #348
“You can’t fool me, there ain’t no Sanity clause.”
I confess to being “Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered” by your post. So much so that I will now conduct a frantic search to unearth the Marx Brothers “Night at the Opera”. Thank you VM.
-0-
Full marks for being the first to identify the source of my nom-de-bludge.
I’m sure Larry Hart wouldn’t mind if I corrected you with Walt Kelly’s take:
“Bewitched, Bothered and Bemildred,” the three endearing bats from Pogo.
For those who were too young to enjoy the brilliance of Kelly’s social and political satire there is a lot of material you can Google.
And to reassure William that we are sticking to the phsephological script, I will explain how the bats from the Pogo strip belong on PB:
“The bats would later be known as Bewitched, Bothered and Bemildred—a play on words of a popular tune from the 1940 Broadway play Pal Joey, written by Richard Rodgers and Lorenz Hart.
“The pants the bats put on every morning would provide their identity throughout the run of the strip. Even the bats were often mixed up on their own identities.
“In later years, they went into business for themselves as polltakers. Their business flourished because they only provided their clients with the answers they wanted.”
As you can see, Kelly’s social commentary was razor sharp.
Dio
The Guardian
Senator has not revealed the details of her demand to the Coalition, but it’s understood to relate to national security.
The enemies of real progressive politics (Boerwar et al) seek to weaponize accusations of anti antisemitism. They even use it a stick to beat progressive with on here for do’s sake. Were Corbyn the leader of Australian Labor, Boer and his ilk would be going full throttle on it, they are Tories in all but name.