NSW Senate entrails examined

A close look at the New South Wales Senate result as finalised yesterday, plus Essential Research findings on attitudes to nuclear power.

Essential Research is continuing to provide The Guardian with polling on a fortnightly basis, but is still limiting itself to issue polling in the wake of the great debacle of last month. This week’s poll is concerned with nuclear power, after a push by Queensland MPs James McGrath and Keith Pitt for a parliamentary inquiry into lifting Australia’s nuclear power ban (showing rather unfortunate timing, in view of the runaway success of HBO’s television series Chernobyl). The poll finds a slight majority of 44% to 40% in favour of Australia having nuclear power plants, compared with a 40-40 tie when Essential last posed the question in 2015 – the kicker being that only 28% said they would be comfortable living near one, with 60% disagreeing. Among the other findings, 47% per cent rated that nuclear would be better than coal-fired power for the environment.

In election counting news, the button was pressed yesterday on the New South Wales Senate result, which, foreseeably, produced three seats for the Coalition (Liberals Hollie Hughes and Andrew Bragg, and Perin Davey of the Nationals), two for Labor (Tony Sheldon and Tim Ayres) and one for the Greens (Mehreen Faruqi). Above-the-line votes accounted for 93.1% of the total, which included more than two quotas each for the Coalition and Labor (albeit just barely in the latter case). This meant the top two candidates on the Coalition and Labor tickets were elected immediately, leaving two seats to be determined by the remainder of the preference distribution. The chart below shows how this proceeded as the last eight candidates were excluded, and also shows how the main candidates were placed after the surpluses of the first four elected candidates were distributed (Count 4).

Under the old system, the entirety of the vote was effectively divided between the sixth elected candidates and the unelected seventh, who was left with what is known as the “wastage quotas”. Now that it’s possible for votes to exhaust, it becomes possible for the count to fail to deliver quotas to six candidates, in which case the final seats go to whoever comes nearest at the final count. Such was the case with the last two seats in New South Wales – 0.39 quotas exhausted, and the final three quotas were distributed between three candidates in such a way as to leave all of them short of a full quota. Two of these candidates, Davey of the Nationals and Faruqi of the Greens, finished just short with 0.97 and 0.96 quotas respectively, causing them each to be elected well ahead of Kate McCulloch of One Nation on 0.68.

The chart illustrates exactly how far Jim Molan, shown in blue, fell short of winning the third seat through the strength of his below-the-line support, notwithstanding conservative excitement that he achieved the highest below-the-line vote in Senate history – in terms of aggregate votes, which is naturally a significant qualification when considering a result from New South Wales. Molan’s total share of the first preference vote was 2.92%, some distance behind a number of recent results in Tasmania, where the rate of below-the-line voting is particularly high. His exclusion unlocked a flood of preferences to Davey that closed the gap between her and Faruqi, who were all but level for the remainder of the count.

However, a good many of Molan’s preferences flowed out of the Coalition ticket and further to the right, with 20% going to McCulloch compared with 71.5% for other Coalition candidates. McCulloch also received a strong flow of preferences when Shooters Fishers and Farmers were the last party excluded two counts later. However, this was well short of what she needed to put her in the hunt for the last two seats, for which her share of the total vote would have had to have been about 2% higher. For more details on preferences, Ross Leedham has determined four-party preferred preference flows along the same lines as I provided in yesterday’s post on the Tasmanian result, observing how small party preferences split between the Coalition, Labor, the Greens, One Nation and exhaustion.

To get a sense of how the result might have played out under the old system, I’ve had a play with Antony Green’s Senate calculator from 2013, using the results from this election where possible and judiciously allocating the residue from new parties to old ones. This suggests One Nation would have won the fifth seat at the expense of either the Coalition and the Greens, who would have been in a very tight race for the last seat. One Nation preference feeders would have included not only Shooters and Fishers, Liberal Democrats, Christian Democrats, the Democratic Labour Party and Australian Conservatives (nee Family First), but also leftist concerns such as Animal Justice, thanks to Glenn Druery-inspired preference networks that had nearly every micro-party preferencing each other ahead of the main three.

The button will apparently be pressed on the Western Australian result this morning and Victoria tomorrow, both of which will assuredly produce results of three Liberal, two Labor and one Greens. Not sure when Queensland and South Australia will be done.

Author: William Bowe

William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, has existed in one form or another since 2004, and is one of the most heavily trafficked websites on Australian politics.

442 comments on “NSW Senate entrails examined”

  1. This does not deserve to be the first post of the morning.

    [Lewd, homophobic and anti-religious slurs appear to have been exchanged among Victorian Liberals at last weekend’s state council meeting, even as party chiefs were urging members to clean up the branch.

    In a sign of ongoing factional tensions, a series of messages posted on the anonymous social media platform, Jodel, apparently show Liberal delegates who attended the event used derogatory terms to denigrate their opponents.

    “Can we send the Mormons to Indonesia with the rest of our rubbish?” said one comment, which was contained in a series of posts seen by The Age.

    “This safe schooler sounds gay AF (as f–k)” said another, followed by: “The autism is strong with this one.”

    Another post asked if the Liberal state president could “enact a de-mormonisation program like the allies did with the Nazis after WWII”.

    Jodel is a relatively new social media app that allows people to post blurbs that can be seen by nearby users without giving away their identity.]

    https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/i-want-curries-victorian-liberals-in-another-offensive-messaging-scandal-20190617-p51ykt.html

  2. If it ever opens, the Carmichael mine would not be the biggest coal mine in the world, or even the biggest coal mine in Australia. But it may be the most insane energy project on the planet, and one that shows just how far supposedly civilized nations (and people) are from grasping what’s at stake in the climate crisis.

    The site for the Carmichael mine is in the Galilee Basin, an unspoiled region of Queensland that Adani has been itching to get his hands on for at least a decade. The battle over the mine has been the usual sordid tale of fossil fuel industry development, in which a rich, powerful, politically connected corporation gets its way with weak and corrupt politicians….

    The approval of the Adani project is an aggressive attack on the 1,600-mile-long reef in two deadly ways. First, by condoning the mining and burning of coal, which is heating up and acidifiying the oceans and killing coral reefs, Australian politicians are essentially saying they are willing to sacrifice one of the great wonders of the world for a few jobs for their pals and some extra cash in their pockets. In fact, a key part of the Adani project is a new coal terminal on the Queensland coast, which is right at the edge of the Barrier Reef. That means more industrialization in the area, more water pollution, more coal barges floating over the reef, more risk of disasters that would dump dirty black rocks on one of nature’s crown jewels.

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/adani-mine-australia-climate-change-848315/

  3. Lizzie, he said, sitting back comfortably in bed, regarding your question about the value of the environment.
    The answer is, because there is no planet B,

    Exactly equal to the value of your life.

    Q&A last night was very interesting and more or less expanded on the above.

    Good morning —-☕ au lait.

  4. And speaking of fascist thugs:

    John Setka and his construction union leadership have declared war on the rest of the union movement saying it will now move to poach the members of other unions.

    The move is a significant escalation in the stand off between Mr Setka’s CFMMEU Victorian construction division and much of the rest of the union movement.

    A meeting of the CFMMEU’s Victorian construction leadership endorsed a series of inflammatory motions on Monday including launching an investigation to target “cowardly” leaks.

    Besides launching their own investigation they also demanded that the union’s national office appoint an independent investigator to uncover leaks to The Age.

    That proposed probe would target members of the CFMMEU’s national executive while the union’s own probe would target its staff and even the union’s lawyers, Gordon Legal, with the Setka-led branch demanding access to records to see if they were involved in any of the leaks to The Age.

    That would involve a “forensic IT and phone audit of all employees, branch officials and national officers of the union, with access to the private documents”.

    It is unclear what legal authority – if any – the Setka-led branch has to demand phone records of other parts of the union.

    The Setka-led leadership also called for what appeared to be a virtual star chamber.

    They demanded individual members of the national executive be required to “front the Victorian branch delegates meeting and each give their views and interpretation of the events and discussion coming out of the last NEX (national executive)”.

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/john-setka-declares-war-on-union-movement-spineless-leakers-20190617-p51ynj.html

    Honestly, I think it would be smart for Labor to jettison this guy and his bunch of droogs. In the manner of ‘A Clockwork Orange’, these people would be more at home with the Tories in the Coalition than the ALP. Or, considering nath’s vile and virulent behaviour towards me last night, and Pegasus jumping on the bandwagon with him and ESJ, The Greens.

    They’re all just becoming toxic pools of political pond scum and Labor are the only ones attempting to show any common decency.

  5. @qikipedia

    In Quito, Ecuador, there is a group of vigilantes that wanders the streets at night and corrects any incorrect grammar in graffiti around the city.

  6. Good morning Dawn Patrollers.

    Greg Jericho tells us that the latest labour force figures released last week made it clear that hopes for an increase in wages growth is a long way off and the government’s predictions in its budget are absurdly optimistic. He says there is zero heat in our economy and backs this up with lots of data.
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/grogonomics/2019/jun/18/there-is-zero-heat-in-the-economy-and-hopes-for-a-wages-increase-are-absurdly-optimistic
    Stephen Kirchner explains how the Reserve Bank would make quantitative easing work.
    https://theconversation.com/below-zero-is-reverse-how-the-reserve-bank-would-make-quantitative-easing-work-118843
    Now the Coalition has been safely returned to power, some journalists are free to report what is actually happening, writes Alan Austin.
    https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/newsrooms-tell-the-truth-about-the-economy–after-the-election,12811
    A scornful Matt Holden writes that it feels like you can believe whatever you want about Adani, or at least whatever suits your world view.
    https://www.smh.com.au/national/adani-is-not-about-jobs-and-never-really-was-20190614-p51xu0.html
    The NSW government has vowed to push through bolstered protections for new homeowners by the end of the year, days after the cracked Mascot Towers building became the second damaged apartment complex in Sydney to be evacuated in the past six months.
    https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/limbo-land-push-for-stronger-homeowner-protections-following-mascot-tower-cracks-20190617-p51yis.html
    And Stephen Goddard, representing owners, writes that Sydney’s dirty strata secrets are emerging through the cracks in Mascot Towers.
    https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/sydney-s-dirty-strata-secrets-emerge-through-cracks-in-mascot-towers-20190617-p51yg7.html
    Sam Maiden writes that ten million taxpayers will have to wait for July 1 tax cuts, with Centre Alliance declaring the legislation as not “urgent” and is unlikely to pass when Parliament returns.
    https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2019/06/17/tax-cuts-scott-morrison-delay/
    Eryk Bagshaw reports that the Morrison government has rejected claims by the NSW and Victorian treasurers that they could be short-changed under the “no state worse-off” GST deal.
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/coalition-guarantees-grant-funding-as-it-rejects-state-treasurers-gst-claims-20190617-p51ygp.html
    The AFR explains why Australia risks ‘slow decline’ without reform.
    https://www.outline.com/RBYfT3
    According to Emma Koehn tax professionals are saying that they are facing continued pressure from clients to put in dodgy expenses while the Australian Taxation Office says it will take strong action against tax professionals who exhibit unprofessional conduct at tax time.
    https://www.smh.com.au/business/small-business/its-like-a-sport-tax-agents-face-hot-water-over-clients-claiming-20190617-p51yfb.html
    Six people exercise extraordinary power in the current parliament. They are the Senate cross-benchers, senators whose votes are wanted, and courted, by both the Coalition government and the Opposition – to either pass laws or block them. Michael West looks at the lie of the legislative land and talks with new parliamentary kingmaker Rex Patrick from Centre Alliance.
    https://www.michaelwest.com.au/australias-most-wanted-rex-patrick-and-the-senates-new-power-block/
    The AFR has the dirt on the Paladin contract saying a confidential report into the company by KPMG reveals the firm posed a financial risk and didn’t have sufficient cash reserves for the size of the contract.
    https://www.outline.com/4SDkNz
    Australia has been warned it risks ‘drifting into the future’ if it fails to respond to challenges in a fast-changing world. The Guardian outlines Australian National Outlook 2019, a major report bringing together the thinking of more than 50 leaders in business, academia, NGOs and the community sector.
    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jun/18/call-to-arms-how-can-australia-avoid-a-slow-and-painful-decline
    Paul Bongiorno was not at all impressed with Dutton’s interview n Insiders.
    https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/national/2019/06/17/peter-dutton-manus/
    Adrian Beaumont writes that it is education divide that explains the Coalition’s upset victory.
    https://theconversation.com/final-2019-election-results-education-divide-explains-the-coalitions-upset-victory-118601
    According to Michelle Grattan Anthony Albanese says he has legal advice to back his move to have John Setka expelled from the ALP, warning him against wasting union members’ money on court action.
    https://theconversation.com/albanese-to-setka-forget-court-action-you-wont-win-118932
    Kirsty Needham explores the effects of the big marches and riots in Hong Kong.
    https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/limbo-land-push-for-stronger-homeowner-protections-following-mascot-tower-cracks-20190617-p51yis.html
    The Lowy Institute’s Ben Bland asks, “Who would want to stand between the seemingly unstoppable force of China’s Communist Party and the immovable object of the Hong Kong people, and their resolve to defend their freedoms and identity?”
    https://www.smh.com.au/world/asia/uneasy-lies-the-head-that-wears-hong-kong-s-rented-crown-20190617-p51yg2.html
    Neil McMahon reports on last night’s Q and A. I must say it was nice to see a group of panellists that actually know what it was talking about!
    https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/alan-jones-is-wrong-climate-scientist-tells-a-politician-free-q-and-a-20190618-p51yor.html
    The head of the international trade union movement has unleashed on Australians who are putting coal jobs ahead of environmental concerns, reports Dana McCauley.
    https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/no-jobs-on-a-dead-planet-warns-world-s-top-union-leader-20190617-p51yia.html
    The Morrison government has been challenged by the European Union and by China about whether it can meet its Paris commitments given rising emissions.
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jun/18/australia-quizzed-by-eu-and-china-on-whether-it-can-meet-2030-paris-climate-target
    HMAS Perth will have been out of the water for almost four years when it is eventually returned to service as the navy struggles to find sufficient sailors.
    https://www.outline.com/kLuuBG
    Meanwhile the ABC reports that details of costly blowouts and delays on troubled military projects are being kept hidden from public view by the Defence department.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-18/secrecy-surrounds-defence-most-troubled-military-projects/11218378
    Laura Murphy Oates explains the horrible new abortion laws in Alabama and draws some parallels with what faces women on Australian remote and regional areas.
    https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/alabama-takes-choice-from-poor-women-but-so-does-australia-20190617-p51yhx.html
    Stephen Bartholomeusz says that the RBA will be keeping a keen eye at what happens at some key meetings in the US and Europe this week.
    https://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/the-meetings-that-could-shake-up-world-markets-20190617-p51ygu.html
    The Jacksonville saga continues as Kathy Jackson’s trial for 70 fraud-related charges is postponed yet again, Peter Wicks reports.
    https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/kathy-jackson-in-court–but-not-today,12812
    Woolworths veterans say they’re being asked to reapply for essentially the same jobs for less money under a new operating structure. Looks like the consultants are in judging from the language coming out.
    https://www.outline.com/S6hwBU
    Mike Bruce looks at the parlous state of the new car market.
    https://thenewdaily.com.au/money/finance-news/2019/06/17/good-time-to-buy-a-car/
    Shane Wright explains how a growing number of Australians are falling behind on their mortgage, hit by weaker house prices and high levels of debt as more signs emerge that consumers are leading the economy down.
    https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6222556/more-home-owners-falling-behind-on-mortgage-as-debt-climbs/?cs=14231
    An obesity expert is calling for greater regulation of weight loss programs, warning that the “anecdata” used to market such plans is seeing Australians diet themselves larger. There is far too much quackery for profit being allowed to prosper in this country.
    https://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/health-and-wellness/expert-calls-for-government-regulation-of-weight-loss-programs-20190524-p51qs7.html
    AFL boss Gillon McLachlan has apologised to footy fans following mounting allegations of intimidation at the hands of match-day security staff. This mob has become expert at shooting itself in its own foot!
    https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/i-m-appalled-afl-boss-apologises-to-fans-over-mounting-security-angst-20190617-p51ynx.html
    Lewd, homophobic and anti-religious slurs appear to have been exchanged among Victorian Liberals at last weekend’s state council meeting, even as party chiefs were urging members to clean up the branch. Nice!
    https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/i-want-curries-victorian-liberals-in-another-offensive-messaging-scandal-20190617-p51ykt.html
    There’s a horrible smell that emanates from Afterpay IMHO.
    https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/austrac-concerns-weigh-on-afterpay-and-investors-20190617-p51yls.html
    The Washington Post tells us that Trump is afraid he’ll lose re-election, and he’s in a fury over it.
    https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/trump-is-afraid-he-ll-lose-re-election-and-he-s-in-a-fury-over-it-20190618-p51yok.html
    Today’s nomination for “Arsehole of the Week” comes out of New York.
    https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-america/new-york-sex-cult-was-straight-out-of-a-horror-movie-prosecutor-20190618-p51you.html

    Cartoon Corner

    I love this one from Cathy Wilcox!

    Also from Cathy.

    Alan Moir goes in hard on the Spud.

    Andrew Dyson in Hong Kong.

    From John Shakespeare.

    Matt Golding has several for us today.





    Zanetti creams his jeans as he comes up with yet another CFMMEU effort.

    Lovely work from Jon Kudelka.
    https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/0043a700d8cc9b145959260c65896b4e?width=1024

    From the US





  7. C@t:

    Pegasus, nath and co only attack you because you respond to their juvenile baiting. Honestly, their comments are not worth reading anyways, so you may as well just block all of them.

  8. Confessions @ #9 Tuesday, June 18th, 2019 – 7:15 am

    C@t:

    Pegasus, nath and co only attack you because you respond to their juvenile baiting. Honestly, their comments are not worth reading anyways, so you may as well just block all of them.

    I know. They aren’t worth the time or trouble. Actually nath was going okay until ESJ/LVT came on the blog and started the ball rolling. I then was just trying to correct the record. I shouldn’t bother.

  9. lizzie @ #8 Tuesday, June 18th, 2019 – 7:13 am

    C@t

    I strongly recommend that you block nath from your thread. He’s deliberately trolling.

    I unblocked him when he seemed to be making an effort to be reasonable but he just goes feral now with accusations about me that just aren’t true. It’s like that stuff you put up earlier from the Liberal Party, really vile and personal.

    Oh well, back to only talking with the great and the good on the blog. 🙂

  10. Thanks, ajm. I keep forgetting about Mr Denmore. I’m glad he’s still toiling away and fighting the good fight. Lord knows we need these people right now to do their valuable work.

  11. C@tmomma @ #17 Tuesday, June 18th, 2019 – 7:30 am

    Thanks, ajm. I keep forgetting about Mr Denmore. I’m glad he’s still toiling away and fighting the good fight. Lord knows we need these people right now to do their valuable work.

    I follow him on Twitter and he usually comes up with a couple of good references in the morning. Did you know he worked for Reuters for a long time.

  12. Thanks BK.

    The Gulf of Tonkin is there and ‘Remember the Maine’ as fake reasons for a war. Ditto WMDs. So there are plenty of good reasons to be skeptical about US reports running up to possible or probable war like actions by the US.

    The Lusitania is not, IMHO, in the same class.

    The Lusitania was a passenger liner. But like many passenger liners it carried some freight and was therefore a legitimate target. Further liners were routinely repurposed as troop transports or as ‘merchant cruisers which were basically a liner armed with lots of guns. They were big and fast and so they were a valuable military asset. It WAS sunk in circumstances (sink on sight without stopping and inspecting) that would have been, before the war, considered to be a war crime. But then ALL belligerents were using submarines in exactly the same way – no German submariners were ever charged after either World War because that would have meant charging allied submariners on the same charges in both Wars. The sinking did kill a lot American passengers and a lot of civilians. There was no doubt that the Germans did it. There was the usual fog of war. The Germans claimed it sank very quickly because it was carrying munitions freight that caused a secondary explosion. There WAS a secondary explosion but it was most probably coal dust that blew.
    The truth was follow the money. Insurance costs for shipping were bankrupting Great Britain. The US private sector had loaned an awful lot of money to the Brits and was starting to get seriously concerned about getting it back should GB be beaten.
    The sinking of the Lusitania was turned into a huge propaganda victory for the Brits.

  13. ajm @ #14 Tuesday, June 18th, 2019 – 7:34 am

    C@tmomma @ #17 Tuesday, June 18th, 2019 – 7:30 am

    Thanks, ajm. I keep forgetting about Mr Denmore. I’m glad he’s still toiling away and fighting the good fight. Lord knows we need these people right now to do their valuable work.

    I follow him on Twitter and he usually comes up with a couple of good references in the morning. Did you know he worked for Reuters for a long time.

    No, I always thought he was an ad industry man who made his fortune there then left the dark side after he saw the light. I don’t know where I got that idea, but there you go. 😀

  14. [According to Michelle Grattan Anthony Albanese says he has legal advice to back his move to have John Setka expelled from the ALP, warning him against wasting union members’ money on court action.]

    Setka and his union have powerful lawyers on tap. One day it may be revealed how much they have spend on their lawyers in the multifarious litigation to which they have been a party over recent years.

  15. I’m not sure that I like this conclusion, which sounds feasible. It suggests that the decision makers are the less educated and our current rulers are those who know how to take advantage of ignorance.

    In my opinion, the most important reason for the Coalition’s upset victory was that Morrison was both liked and trusted by lower-educated voters, while they neither liked nor trusted Labor leader Bill Shorten.

    I think Morrison won support from the lower-educated because they are sceptical of “inner-city elites”. The Coalition leader emphasised his non-elite attributes during the campaign, such as by playing sport and going to church.

    https://theconversation.com/final-2019-election-results-education-divide-explains-the-coalitions-upset-victory-118601

  16. shellbell @ #19 Tuesday, June 18th, 2019 – 7:56 am

    [According to Michelle Grattan Anthony Albanese says he has legal advice to back his move to have John Setka expelled from the ALP, warning him against wasting union members’ money on court action.]

    Setka and his union have powerful lawyers on tap. One day it may be revealed how much they have spend on their lawyers in the multifarious litigation to which they have been a party over recent years.

    Just goes to show what a terrible waste of money most lawyers are. 😐

  17. C@tmomma @ #17 Tuesday, June 18th, 2019 – 7:49 am

    ajm @ #14 Tuesday, June 18th, 2019 – 7:34 am

    C@tmomma @ #17 Tuesday, June 18th, 2019 – 7:30 am

    Thanks, ajm. I keep forgetting about Mr Denmore. I’m glad he’s still toiling away and fighting the good fight. Lord knows we need these people right now to do their valuable work.

    I follow him on Twitter and he usually comes up with a couple of good references in the morning. Did you know he worked for Reuters for a long time.

    No, I always thought he was an ad industry man who made his fortune there then left the dark side after he saw the light. I don’t know where I got that idea, but there you go. 😀

    Actually I think he followed the path of many journalists who have been made redundant and now works in PR, albeit in one of the more genteel backwaters of that profession.

  18. D & M,
    Someone was murdered in your neck of the woods last night!

    Police are investigating a possible homicide after a woman was found on a footpath at the rear of an inner Sydney apartment complex.

    Emergency services were called to the rear of the unit block on Rose Valley Way, Zetland, about 8.45pm on Monday night following reports an injured woman had been found “suffering injuries on the footpath,” NSW Police said in a statement.

  19. C@tmomma @ #21 Tuesday, June 18th, 2019 – 8:03 am

    shellbell @ #19 Tuesday, June 18th, 2019 – 7:56 am

    [According to Michelle Grattan Anthony Albanese says he has legal advice to back his move to have John Setka expelled from the ALP, warning him against wasting union members’ money on court action.]

    Setka and his union have powerful lawyers on tap. One day it may be revealed how much they have spend on their lawyers in the multifarious litigation to which they have been a party over recent years.

    Just goes to show what a terrible waste of money most lawyers are. 😐

    I think they’ve actually won quite a lot of cases, assisted no doubt by the fact that many of the charges have been political rather than having substance. Judges love finding ways to dismiss cases that are an abuse of process – it’s about the only fun they get.

  20. ajm,
    That article about Adani was interesting. So he wants to make a play to supply power to Bangladesh (in order to avoid Indian taxes) with the coal from the Carmichael mine? Devious bugger.

  21. ajm @ #24 Tuesday, June 18th, 2019 – 8:09 am

    C@tmomma @ #21 Tuesday, June 18th, 2019 – 8:03 am

    shellbell @ #19 Tuesday, June 18th, 2019 – 7:56 am

    [According to Michelle Grattan Anthony Albanese says he has legal advice to back his move to have John Setka expelled from the ALP, warning him against wasting union members’ money on court action.]

    Setka and his union have powerful lawyers on tap. One day it may be revealed how much they have spend on their lawyers in the multifarious litigation to which they have been a party over recent years.

    Just goes to show what a terrible waste of money most lawyers are. 😐

    I think they’ve actually won quite a lot of cases, assisted no doubt by the fact that many of the charges have been political rather than having substance. Judges love finding ways to dismiss cases that are an abuse of process – it’s about the only fun they get.

    What gets me though are the worthy cases that should lead to prosecution that get thrown out on a technicality due to overweening lawyers.

  22. Heard on ABC radio just now:

    …Former Green’s leader Bob Brown has vowed to take his anti-Adani protest to the World”…

    Has he not caused enough damage?

  23. I am sure the unions are shaking in their boots at Albanese running around with “ legal advice “ flailing in the breeze warning them not to take him on in court.

    The recent success rate of pollies in court relying on their legal advice to get them through is not real high.

    Anyway, a labor party $1.8 million plus loose change in debt after the election up against cashed up unions in a potential protracted, divisive and expensive legal battle will be a sight to behold.

    Morrison and his rabble will be laughing. Scrutiny ? what scrutiny ?

    Good to see labor has its eyes on the real battle.

  24. When you take in less money, you have less money to spend. Does Rinehart not understand that, or perhaps she just doesn’t care?

    Multibillionaire iron ore magnate Gina Rinehart has called on the State Government to turn WA into a business utopia by getting rid of payroll tax.

    The radical plan would make WA the only jurisdiction in Australia that doesn’t tax businesses for taking on extra staff.

    But it would starve the State Government of a vital source of revenue — payroll tax accounts for 38 per cent of the State’s total tax revenue, worth $3.75 billion in 2019-20 — drastically reducing its ability to deliver services to voters.

    https://thewest.com.au/business/tax/gina-rinehart-joins-the-fight-to-bin-was-payroll-tax-ng-b881233168z

  25. Pegasus, nath and co only attack you because you respond to their juvenile baiting. Honestly, their comments are not worth reading anyways, so you may as well just block all of them.

    +1

  26. Confessions, payroll tax is an odd tax. I guess you have to tax someone and big companies do enjoy the benefits of what taxes provide (law and order, roads, healthy workers, educated workers etc).

    I believe it is only applied to large companies (businesses employing 5 or fewer employees are exempt and only applies to employees over 5 even for larger companies), so is a disincentive to put on labour.

    What would the state tax to replace the revenue, they don’t have many options.

  27. doyley

    Yep, after six years of unity, we’re going to start off with an internal battle, which really doesn’t interest anyone out there much and – whichever way it goes – just damages the party and its image.

    Getting rid of a union leader just reminds voters about Labor’s links with the unions.

    I’m not saying Setka shouldn’t go – not being a judge or a jury – but this was about the worst way to handle it.

    As I’ve said previously, this also has an air of an attempt to weaken the Victorian branch about it.

    Anyway, why fight Tories when we can fight ourselves – and do their work for them!

  28. Zoomster, …’I’m not saying Setka shouldn’t go’…

    I think they are conflating expelling him from the party with having him resign from the union.

    Very messy.

  29. PeeBee:

    Yep. We’ve seen in some states in the US where Republicans have gotten in and cut taxes for wealthy people and businesses, that those states end up effectively bankrupt because there isn’t the revenue to pay for services.

  30. Zoidlord

    $4 a day ? Looxury. 🙂
    .
    Aussies must compete with $2 a day workers: Rinehart

    “Furthermore, Africans want to work, and its workers are willing to work for less than $2 per day. Such statistics make me worry for this country’s future.”

    Julia Gillard ….. has a different view of how workers should be treated.”It’s not the Australian way to toss people a $2 gold coin and then ask them to work for a day,” she said.”We support proper Australian wages and decent working conditions for Australian people.”We are not going to have wage rates the same as the wage rates in Africa.
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-05/rinehart-says-aussie-workers-overpaid-unproductive/4243866

  31. Not Sure @ #28 Tuesday, June 18th, 2019 – 8:11 am

    Heard on ABC radio just now:

    …Former Green’s leader Bob Brown has vowed to take his anti-Adani protest to the World”…

    Has he not caused enough damage?

    And if you read the Reuters article on Adani linked by ajm earlier you would have read that the Adani mine is a nothingburger in the grand scheme of things.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/column-russell-coal-adani-ent/column-myths-and-reality-adanis-australian-coal-mine-torches-rationality-russell-idUSL4N23O0IJ

    I just think that Bob Brown is suffering from Relevance Deprivation Syndrome.

  32. Warning to others who link to articles relating to topics under discussion, with no comment.

    Apparently, according to Cat, you are “jumping on a bandwagon” and attacking her.

    Seriously, the lengths to which some individuals go to claim victim status and to misrepresent others is pathetic.

    In this case, a link to one article:
    https://www.pollbludger.net/2019/06/17/tasmanian-senate-entrails-examined/comment-page-8/#comment-3205240

    I ignore most of the bs but sometimes I am going to defend myself.

  33. Sorry, but a fight with the CFFMEU is a fight Labor has to have. And win. The CFFMEU are more closely aligned with and supportive of the Coalition these days anyway.

    However, if you don’t believe me, here’s just a random sample of the 284 comments to the Setka article in the SMH:

    James from Moonee Ponds:

    As if they would withdraw their funding of the Labor party and increase the chances of an extended LNP reign. That would be the true definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face. Do you think the union members would tolerate that?? No, Albo stay strong. Middle Australia would be more likely to vote for Labor if the standover merchants of the unions were gone.

    Cold feet:

    Not a great deal of insight on display by the CFMEU leader. Albo backing down to such a childish threat would do more damage to Labor’s image and electoral fortunes than the forgone donations. On the flip side, standing firm against CFMEU intimidation will significantly improve Labor’s profile. After ditching Labor out of spite, who exactly in Canberra will championing the interests of CFEMU members?

    I could go on, there’s plenty more like it. Basically, Labor will get 3 more votes for every 1 they lose to people who support Setka and the CFFMEU.

    It’s a fight that will define Labor going forward as a party and it’s a fight that has to be had.

  34. The CFMMEU may have won a few local court prosecutions but they have been picked off big time in the costly federal court cases and appeals.

  35. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-18/coal-mine-proposal-splitting-kingaroy-in-two/11208934

    “More mines, more jobs, more future,” it proclaims.

    For a long time no-one knew who put it up, but everyone had an opinion on its message — and opinions were vehemently divided.

    The billboard sits within Maranoa, the most conservative electorate in Australia.

    It’s in regional Queensland — where, according to many analysts, widespread voter support for coal mining and the jobs it creates swayed the election result in the Coalition’s favour.

    But in Kingaroy, it’s not that simple.

  36. C@tmomma @ #41 Tuesday, June 18th, 2019 – 6:47 am

    And if you read the Reuters article on Adani linked by ajm earlier you would have read that the Adani mine is a nothingburger in the grand scheme of things.

    Before you read it you should be aware that the author, Clyde Russell, is a shill for mining and energy companies.

    To balance things out, read the article in Rolling Stone for another perspective:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/adani-mine-australia-climate-change-848315/

  37. Pegasus @ #42 Tuesday, June 18th, 2019 – 8:50 am

    Warning to others who link to articles relating to topics under discussion, with no comment.

    Apparently, according to Cat, you are “jumping on a bandwagon” and attacking her.

    Seriously, the lengths to which some individuals go to claim victim status and to misrepresent others is pathetic.

    In this case, a link to one article:
    https://www.pollbludger.net/2019/06/17/tasmanian-senate-entrails-examined/comment-page-8/#comment-3205240

    I ignore most of the bs but sometimes I am going to defend myself.

    Someone needs to call the wahmbulance for Pegasus.

    And, sorry, but we aren’t interested in your revisionism. It’s always self-serving. And if I want to quote from an article in The Australian, or anywhere else I find valid, verifiable information, I will. Generally I don’t but sometimes even out there publications do good work. As you have acknowledged by quoting from those sorts of places yourself when it suits you.

    Now that’s the last time I’m going to rise to your punctilious pettifogging bait. As others have been advising me to do. You just aren’t worth the trouble.

  38. Dan Gulberry @ #47 Tuesday, June 18th, 2019 – 9:02 am

    C@tmomma @ #41 Tuesday, June 18th, 2019 – 6:47 am

    And if you read the Reuters article on Adani linked by ajm earlier you would have read that the Adani mine is a nothingburger in the grand scheme of things.

    Before you read it you should be aware that the author, Clyde Russell, is a shill for mining and energy companies.

    To balance things out, read the article in Rolling Stone for another perspective:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/adani-mine-australia-climate-change-848315/

    Okay, I will.

  39. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jun/18/australias-onshore-immigration-detention-unlike-any-other-liberal-democracy

    The Australian onshore immigration detention system is becoming “more and more like prison” and unlike similar operations any other liberal democracy, the Human Rights Commission has said.

    It is also now holding people for an average of about 500 days – far longer than any comparable jurisdiction, and is increasingly using restraints.

    The commission urged the Australian government to “take very seriously” its latest report, which examined risk management in detention and was released on Tuesday.

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