The Australian reports Newspoll has closed its 2018 account with another crushing 55-45 lead for Labor, from primary votes of Coalition 35% (up one), Labor 41% (up one), Greens 9% (steady) and One Nation 7% (down one). Scott Morrison edges to net negative territory on his personal ratings, being down one on approval to 42% and up three on disapproval to 45%. Bill Shorten is respectively down one to 36% and up one to 51%. Morrison’s lead as preferred prime minister is 44-36, narrowing from 46-34. The poll was conducted Thursday to Sunday from a sample of 1731.
Good presser by Mr Andrews just shown on ABC News 24 on the Coag subject that GG linked to.
I like Mr Andrews saying the now Morrison Minority Government 🙂
Guytaur @ 7:04
“I see the lie is being bandied about that the the Greens are responsible for the failure of climate change policy again.
Like it or not Labor people. Legislation was passed. We had a “carbon tax” as part of a short term independent body to set up a trading market. A perfectly reasonable thing to do. Its why Julia Gillard and Greg Combet signed onto it.
The Greens were not responsible for Labor’s leadership wars. The Greens are not at fault for the Labor distraction letting Abbott win the election. ”
It seems to me that the Greens are never responsible for anything, and therefore never at fault! A Text book definition of being irresponsible.
I see no reason to doubt their good intentions, but they should remember that without actions, good intentions are the path to hell.
On this blog there is little to distinguish the Greens from the IPA trolls.
My view is that getting some progress , even a little , is better than standing on the sidelines nit-picking. “Faith without works is dead”. The only way to avoid all mistakes is to do nothing
Gippslander
What a load of BS. You know at least I have said the Greens did not do well in the Victorian election.
I have not even done much talking about the legitimate topic of the preference whispering results in the Upper House.
I have said I think Richard Di Natale’s leadership is poor.
I have said the Greens have a real problem with dealing with bad apples in their party. Something they are responsible for.
So yeah first I am not a “Green” I am only voting for them in this one election.
I may be voting Labor in others but the way I am being attacked at the moment makes me think I made the right choice and makes it very unlikely I am going to vote for Labor again if I am attacked for not saying I buy the Labor myth of blaming the Greens for the actions of Tony Abbott.
Edit:
In fact I should add. Its pretty pathetic that some here think labelling someone as a member of a party when they have clearly stated otherwise. Does not do much for the validity of your arguments.
Boerwar
Yes, I’m aware of the difference between the Uluru Statement and a female caucus, but when the Libs were so dismissive of the first, I can see how they’d view the other in the same way. Any ‘voice’ which is not theirs is not worth listening to.
One of Guytaur’s most irritating sayings is wtte “Like it or not, xxx, this is the truth.” Sorry, Guytaur. It proves nothing.
According to Washington post, Reality seems to bite WH if not Trump
https://www-washingtonpost-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/opinions/2018/12/11/trump-slides-new-poll-reality-begins-piercing-bubble/?amp_js_v=a2&_gsa=1#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fopinions%2F2018%2F12%2F11%2Ftrump-slides-new-poll-reality-begins-piercing-bubble%2F
lizzie
Tell me did Labor pass legislation on climate change or not?
Did Labor win the following election or not?
Did Labor have a Leadership Soap Opera or not?
Did FPMJG say “You can call that a Carbon Tax” or not?
Have I linked to international sites with no political bias on encryption or not?
Lizzie if you can say no to those questions then you are right I have proved nothing.
lizzie @ #1526 Wednesday, December 12th, 2018 – 9:24 am
Yes, bald assertions do NOT equal the truth.
Morrison presser now
And then did the Greens, in February 2013, very publicly and with much fanfare, desert the agreement they made with Labor, or not?
guytaur @ #1547 Wednesday, December 12th, 2018 – 9:02 am
Yep. That sounds about right.
Here’s someone who has set out all the reasons she won’t be voting for Labor.
https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/does-the-labor-party-deserve-our-vote,12196#.XBAnoInlk7g.facebook
BB
The Greens claimed Labor deserted them first.
I was not there I will not claim who was right or who was wrong. I will say I find it easier to believe the Greens on that one just because of the leadership soap opera and the way people have been trying to blame the Greens for the failure of that energy policy.
They were very ugly times for the Labor party. Its to be expected some want to do some scapegoating that admit the very real problems of the Labor party to try and put it behind them.
Labor has been excellent in uniting behind Shorten. I just want Labor to embrace the Climate Legislation that was passed and be proud of it. That means not blaming the Greens for the fact Abbott won the election and that thus the legislation was repealed.
All the argument blaming the Greens with the CPRS of Rudd’s legislation amount to what if we only had more time to embed the legislation first. That would not have been a problem IF Labor had not had a leadership soap opera and had won the election.
lizzie @ #1533 Wednesday, December 12th, 2018 – 9:42 am
Sorry, lizzie, but that article by Noely Neate is full of bs about Labor, and more guytauresque bald assertions which are NOT the truth. Do you want me to explain?
And, honestly, I’m over these self-appointed, self-serving opinionators who think their word is god-like (and, yes, I see the irony there), but when they put that sort of loaded article up on the internet, with all it’s twinkling links, amounting to not very much at all, and expect the gullible to swallow it, hook, line and sinker, then I will speak out.
guytaur:
[‘So yeah first I am not a “Green” I am only voting for them in this one election.’]
I’m terribly concerned to learn you’re voting Green in May. Please take stock and reconsider your decision. I mean to say, your vote, your advocacy are pivotal to ensuring a Labor victory, waverers hanging off your every word.
Aunt Mavis
You would think so by the way people attack me. 🙂
‘The Greens claimed….’
There’s your problem right there. The Greens can’t be trusted to tell the truth, as far as you could throw them up a tree to tree sit.
Guytaur
“In fact I should add. Its pretty pathetic that some here think labelling someone as a member of a party when they have clearly stated otherwise. Does not do much for the validity of your arguments.”
I pass over the Labelling of my views as BS, as you seem sometimes to speak more passionately than a neutral observer would .
But you seem to have misread my comments . Nowhere did I say that you were a member of the Greens, and your misreading ‘ does not do much for the validity of your arguments’.
I will repeat a previously expressed view that I am sceptical of your claim to maybe vote Labor. I do not for a moment doubt that you are unlikely to vote Labor again. BTW FWIW I don’t think you’re an IPA troll.
C@t
Don’t apologise. I thought it would be useful to know what the anti-Labor lefties are saying. She also admits that she’s in a safe Nationals seat.
However you are right that she is a frequent “opinion poster”.
As others have said, people are so impatient for Labor to react instantly to everything. Just like Morrison!!!
Gippslander
You can have your opinion. However you have to accept what I tell you. My plan is to have progressive politics gain not retreat.
That means when I think its best I will vote Labor. I know I would have in the Victorian election.
Until the encryption legislation was passed I was going to Federally too.
My preference is still going to Labor so they will get a short term money hit from this one voter but still get the value of my vote and be in government
“All the argument blaming the Greens with the CPRS of Rudd’s legislation amount to what if we only had more time to embed the legislation first”
Wrong. If the Greens had supported the CPRS, its likely that Turnbull would not have been rolled by Abbott. Greens dont have any credibility on this until they own it that they were a major factor in the circumstances giving the country Abbott as LOTO. A lot of negatives flowed from that. 🙁
And they are STILL targeting the ALP rather than the Libs in the run up to an election where the main game is to get rid of the Libs. Anyway, not a prob here in W.A. as there aren’t any Federal greens worth voting for as far as i know.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/stop-the-boats-email-exposes-border-force-plans-to-save-money-by-halting-ocean-patrols-20181211-p50lis.html
I wonder how many PR people worked on this denial.
I know this is about Trump. But, it reminds me so much of Guytaur’s debating skill.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1072617157060648966
Cat
Yes the Greens claimed. Labor claimed.
You have your views The Greens have theirs. Both think the other betrayed them.
Maybe both are right. I just have to believe from what I have seen and biased party members do not see it that way. For very good reason on both sides. When you are partisan you do form the view from your party point of view. Both sides with insiders saying the other betrayed them
lizzie @ #1572 Wednesday, December 12th, 2018 – 9:57 am
It actually confirms the original assertion.
imacca
Likely? No one knows no one will ever know. Its what if fantasy
You might as well say what if Howard had passed the ETS when he had the chance
imacca
Likely? No one knows no one will ever know. Its what if fantasy
‘When he finally faces the music with an election – and let us hope that is sooner rather than later – I will not be giving the Liberals (or in my case as a Queenslander, the LNP) my vote.
What I’m copping a lot of flack for is that I also will not be giving the Australian Labor Party (ALP) my vote either.’
Oh, will someone please explain preferences to her?
As for the rest, she accuses Labor of not standing up for a whole range of issues Labor did stand up for. They can’t do much about them, of course, being in Opposition.
So she’s basing her disgruntlement with Labor on her own ignorance.
https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/does-the-labor-party-deserve-our-vote,12196#.XBAnoInlk7g.facebook
Greensborough Growler @ #1541 Wednesday, December 12th, 2018 – 5:51 am
What’s the bet that the cuts are designed to let a few boats get through so the Libs can run a scare campaign for the next election.
guytaur @ #1570 Wednesday, December 12th, 2018 – 9:55 am
No we don’t. I think this is why most people eventually give up on arguing with you. You clearly believe that we have to accept anything you say, even when what you say is complete twaddle.
zoomster @ #1577 Wednesday, December 12th, 2018 – 10:00 am
Yep. Succinctly and correctly put.
Dan Gulberry @ #1578 Wednesday, December 12th, 2018 – 10:02 am
I would not put ANYTHING past ScaMo and Dutton the Dictater (sic).
P1
When I am talking about my views on how I am intending to do things then yes you do.
That intention may change as like anyone I don’t know the future. However you don’t get to tell me what my intentions are.
“Its what if fantasy”
Nope, its pretty obvious to anyone not dodging this issue. If the Greens had been on board instead of crawling up their own “perfectionist” bottoms and virtue signaling there would have been a LOT less pressure on Turnbull and far less incentive for Abbott to challenge.
FFS guytar, Greens cant slide around responsibility for EVERYTHING if they ever have any ambitions to be anything other than a protest party. Which on demonstrated behavior i dont think they do. Sometimes you just have to own it that you have fwarked up, show a capacity to learn, a little pragmatism, and move on. Greens are NOT demonstrating that and until they do i think they are going to stick on that 7-9% rusted on vote with most preferences going ALP regardles of their HTV arrangements.
Anyhow, enough slagging off the Fairies from down the weed patch. 🙂 Off to the salt mines again.
C@tmomma @ #1582 Wednesday, December 12th, 2018 – 10:07 am
When your National Border protection regime depends on denying women and children health care then it’s pretty much a house of cards.
immacca
Clever words for what if. What if Labor had given preferences to the Greens not Family First. The numbers would have been different.
Thats just as much fantasy as your what if. You can believe what you want. It does not make it fact.
The only fact we have is Rudd did not pass the CPRS because he did not get the support of the Liberal party required because maths.
You have speculation and believe about what some Liberal people may have done but you don’t know. Thats why its what if
phoenixRED:
Flynn should avoid prison but the same can’t be said of Manafort.
https://www.mail.com/int/news/world/8897326-flynn-to-arguments-prison-time-russia-probe.html#.1272-stage-hero1-11
guytaur @ #1583 Wednesday, December 12th, 2018 – 10:07 am
Your actions speak much louder than your words do.
Arctic experiencing unprecented warming, and meanwhile US officials in Poland are openly laughed at by audience members as they promote fossil fuels.
https://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2018/12/11/lead-rene-marsh-climate-live-jake-tapper.cnn
GG,
AND, to ‘send a message to your base’ that you are still hard as nails on Border Protection, you send them back to Nauru after the medical treatment has been finalised, then it’s even more than a house of cards, it’s despicable behaviour.
Seems the “It’s Timid” tilt on encryption didn’t impress Labor folks either.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/bill-shorten-under-internal-pressure-to-force-major-changes-to-rushed-encryption-laws-20181207-p50kvp.html
P1
Yeah you know my actions in the voting booth I see. How long have you been psychic?
C@tmomma @ #1590 Wednesday, December 12th, 2018 – 10:13 am
As Victoria showed, a lot of the Liberal Base has moved significantly on imprisoning Asylum Seekers indefinately. They are ignoring that to their peril.
Recent talk from the Libs is that their marginals are not too bad. The swings in traditionally safe Liberal seats in Melbourne when transplanted to the other capital cities will see the Libs massacred at the Federal election.
Dutton is cooked!
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Karen Middleton
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Home Affairs Min Peter Dutton says his legal advice assures no s44 constitutional problem bc his childcare business makes no profit from a govt subsidy it receives. The Constitution speaks of “pecuniary interest”. Definition in Aust legislation refers to “financial gain OR LOSS”.
lefty e
They can’t do anything now until Parly is back. Calm down, everyone.
lizzie @ 9:42 am
“Here’s someone who has set out all the reasons she won’t be voting for Labor.”
——
She didn’t even mention the ALP support for an unrestrained TPP!
Guytaur, It’s a lovely day. Don’t spend it arguing with Harpies. 🙂
Of course Labor politicians have it easy.
They don’t believe they have a “base” to appease.
This allows them to support policies for tory voters.
Policies supported by tories may just happen to coincide with post-politics career opportunites in the “Market”, but that is just a coinicidence!
lizzie @ #1558 Wednesday, December 12th, 2018 – 5:24 am
BINGO!!!!!
guytaur @ #1573 Wednesday, December 12th, 2018 – 5:55 am
Is that one of the most arrogant comments in PB history!
It highlights lizzie’s earlier comment perfectly.
Said with no irony.