As related by The Guardian, Essential Research’s fortnight rolling average result for this week has Labor’s two-party lead at 53-47, down from 54-46 last week. As usual we will have to wait until Essential releases the full report later today for the primary votes.
On the same sex marriage survey, an excessive 86% report having voted, of whom 64% say they voted yes, 31% no, and the rest declining to answer. On the question of support for “an indigenous voice to parliament”, 45% expressed support with 16% opposed, while 47% expressed support for an indigenous treaty, with 16% opposed.
Also featured is the latest in the pollster’s semi-regular series on party attributes, with results similar to those from the previous outing in March. Even the Liberal Party’s rating as “divided” is unchanged at 68%, although it is down six points on being “too close to the big corporate and financial interests”, now at 65%. Labor’s biggest change looks to be a six point drop for “moderate”, to 52%. If I understand the report correctly, the Liberal Party is up six on this measure to 53%.
@ a r
Companies follow policies and procedures, not “common sense”. This is true regardless of how obvious the situation appears from a glimpse.
Those policy procedures should be based around the presumption of innocence, and the first step should be to confirm the identity of the person, which may include issues around; poor video quality, poor camera angles, or even just someone that looks very similar to you.
These procedures should always involve hearing the side of the ‘accused’ before making a decision.
there was a female panelist on a show who questioned what that woman who was murdered in Melbourne was doing out so late at night. That was a truly revolting comment yet the panelist still is on the show.
margaret tighe of right to life said after a security guard was murdered and more murders were only stopped because of brave by-standers at a family planning clinic that this is what to expect when people get passionate about an issue. she later apologised and is still head of that organisation.
Mathewson should either own it or deny it, apologise and move on, dont leave it hanging.
The option to block all anonymous posters is, as your post indicates, not a good option.
I block all posters, anonymous or not, makes the blog interesting to read.
briefly @ #1291 Thursday, November 9th, 2017 – 11:35 am
Maybe, but in this case it is not a blanket exclusion, but one that can fairly reasonably be overcome in the vast majority of cases.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/malcolm-turnbull-in-fiery-tv-exchange-with-patronising-karl-stefanovic-20171108-gzhncv.html
This is a really a very good exchange.
karl asks mal what he is going to do about citizenship.
mal avoids questions talks of evil north korea, jobsngrowthe and terrywists
karl tells mal stop waffling
mal tells karl he only got his job on today only because of mals strong leadership
Boris @ #1297 Thursday, November 9th, 2017 – 11:43 am
Excellent ❗
TV and radio with power switch in off position – quality option.
☜(˚▽˚)☞☜(˚▽˚)☞
The malsplainer calls Stan ‘patronising’
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/malcolm-turnbull-in-fiery-tv-exchange-with-patronising-karl-stefanovic-20171108-gzhncv.html
pot.kettle.black.
Re: the Dastyari harassment by nationalists. I deplore that it happened, but love that I live in a country where an MP publicly asks a nationalist “And what race is ‘dickhead’ mate?” and this gets widely reported with no concern re: ‘improper’ language. Makes me proud – almost nationalistic.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-09/malcolm-turnbull-takes-on-karl-stefanovic/9132928
Abc took the safe approach on the today blue, mal standing up to mean karl.
but they do point out re the dual ctis meeting that:
Yesterday Mr Turnbull described it as a constructive meeting.
“I make no criticism of Mr Shorten whatsoever in this regard, he wants to get further advice and consult with others,” he said.
But today he changed that view and accused Mr Shorten of not being “fair dinkum”.
reminded me of hockey and rudd in 07, where hockey praised rudd on the friday as a good bloke, then on the monday, after reprogramming at lib headquarters over the weekend, came calling him sorts of evil.
mals about turn on dual cits agreement was to appease the NO campaigners in the lnp, signal to them he will use same tactic in December.
shorten and labor not fair dinkum on ME bill.
shorten wants to exploit this issue, shorten wants to prolong it, shorten doesn’t want to resolve it.
Adrian, the political impairment placed on all dual citizens is purely arbitrary. They are presumed to be conflicted, to be untrustworthy. This is intolerable.
TV and radio with power switch in off position – quality option.
is there any other option, so much more to see and hear.
zoomster @ #1274 Thursday, November 9th, 2017 – 7:40 am
My comment was aimed at her, not you.
All cool.
The Perfect Republican Failure As Rep. Rants To An Empty House About Firing Mueller
Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-FL) ranted about Robert Mueller’s “conflicts,” and how a coup is being perpetrated against Trump. The Congressman worked himself into a lather, but there was only one problem. The House was empty while he was speaking, which perfectly sums up the Republican failure to stop the Russia scandal.
Rep. Gaetz’s rant was the perfect symbol of Republican failure. Republicans can scream and yell their conspiracies, but as the evidence grows against Trump and the campaign, such speeches are nothing more than empty howling at the moon.
http://www.politicususa.com/2017/11/08/watch-perfect-republican-failure-rep-rants-empty-house-firing-mueller.html
Boris
😆
KayJay
A better option would be that William make it mandatory for posters to log on.
Yes, agreed. I was thinking that that is the technique used by many comments blogs. No charge, but mediator can keep control.
From what i saw of the Dastyari video, the problem is not so much the insults but the extremely intimidating and threatening way they were delivered; with one guy apparently nudging him in the back while he was trying to carry the drinks back to his table (obviously hoping to cause a spill).
For most people this would be a really stressful & traumatic event.
Dastyari may be made of tough stuff but was also lucky to have some people with him to take it up to the abusers.
Adrian, the political impairment placed on all dual citizens is purely arbitrary. They are presumed to be conflicted, to be untrustworthy. This is intolerable.
For sure it is, but if we had Sam as defense minister or FA with dual ctiz then the msm would be calling for his blood.
regardless it is in the constitution and can easily be fixed by a referendum or by candidates just accepting that it is the law and it applies to them and renouncing.
Mike Pence Goes To Sutherland Springs And Blames Everything But Guns For Church Massacre
The grieving people of Sutherland Springs were treated to the same old rhetoric that blames everything – laws, bureaucracy, and mental health – other than guns.
After quoting the Bible and insisting that America come together to root out this type of evil, Pence didn’t put forward a single substantive idea on how to prevent this type of violence from happening again, and he made his best effort to downplay the role that guns play in helping perpetuate these acts.
With an administration unwilling to even acknowledge that the United States has a gun problem, not only will we never be able to solve it, but we’ll continue to see these types of mass shootings in the future.
http://www.politicususa.com/2017/11/08/mike-pence-tells-sutherland-springs-guns-church-massacre.html
Boris says:
Thursday, November 9, 2017 at 11:43 am
So you like talking to yourself! 🙂
The current saga has proven that presumption maybe for good reason.
The ones that have renounced and followed the law are obviously less untrustworthy than the ones that ones have not. So, so many duel citizens in parliament, too many to count. Something is a little fishy.
Phoenix, Trump is actually a black/latino/asian/mexican/Democrat wearing an orange skin suit.
It’s the only explanation that fits. He is someone who has done everything to bully, weaken,threaten and rage against minorities. My guess is that in the guise of Donald he is uniting them all against the Reublicans. Fantastic strategy.
Boris
“For sure it is, but if we had Sam as defense minister or FA with dual ctiz then the msm would be calling for his blood.”
Its OK, if we get into a war then Sam can get lock up in the internment camps with all the other FURENERS.
sonar says:
Thursday, November 9, 2017 at 12:10 pm
My guess is that in the guise of Donald he is uniting them all against the Republicans. Fantastic strategy.
***************************************************************
Past prophetic words from Republican heavy – Lindsey Graham
Lindsey GrahamVerified account LindseyGrahamSC
If we nominate Trump, we will get destroyed…….and we will deserve it.
2:03 PM – 3 May 2016
Poor Mal!
Even Turnbull realises that it’s not a good look when some inoffensive, thick as a brick, soppy morning show ‘compare’ like Karl Stevanovic can lose patience with him and suggest to him “OK, I’ve had enough, how about answering the f’ken question?”
Section 44(i) as I see it.
If you wish to stand as a candidate in a federal election you must:
1.investigate your ancestry for any citizenships that you may possess.
2. renounce all other citizenships.
2.1 If it is not possible to renounce a citizenship or a country is being unreasonably obstructive in allowing you to do so, then you will be considered to be eligible if you have taken reasonable steps to renounce.
The HC has clearly said that ignorance of a citizenship is not an excuse.
The reasonable steps provision was in relation to someone who couldn’t renounce a citizenship, but in the Roberts case they dismissed his ineffectual attempts as being unreasonable as they did not reflect the clear process required to renounce British citizenship.
This suggests that the concept of reasonable steps is not beyond expansion to other situations.
So, to me, the HC position is all about discovering and ridding oneself of any other citizenships, however it is open to certain caveats.
It does not seem willing to stop anyone from having the ability to sit in federal Parliament if they are an Australian citizen.
Reasonable steps reflects this, as under a black letter interpretation no person born in Iran, for example, would be able to sit in federal Parliament.
So lets look at the major Parties.
Liberals/Nationals
Everything we have heard so far suggests that they have no processes in place to discover any citizenships held by their candidates.
In all the cases we have heard about they have either failed to investigate;
1. their ancestry at all,
or
2. any citizenships as a result of a known ancestry.
As a result they have all made no attempt to renounce their conflicting citizenship and the HC has been harsh on them.
Labor
They seem to reflect the HC position more closely.
They have processes in place to facilitate a candidate discovering and dealing with dual citizenships.
All the Labor candidates knew of their citizenship and have taken appropriate action to renounce those citizenships.
We have seen a flaw in Labor’s processes with Katy Gallagher being appointed to the Senate while holding British citizenship but this was subsequently picked up by their election vetting processes and corrected.
Obviously Labor needs to address this situation, and probably has already, to ensure it doesn’t happen again.
The major problem Labor has, and it’s one shared by all candidates and Parties, is that in areas where there is no clear HC ruling they can only rely on legal opinion.
This seems relevant in the situations of Keay, Lamb and Gallagher.
They all knew of their dual citizenship and they all took appropriate steps to renounce their citizenship.
This was all done before the close of nominations before the last election.
However it seems that their renunciation took effect after the close of nominations.
So, at the close of nominations they were still dual citizens.
The black letter view says that they were not eligible to stand.
Obviously Labor is working on the legal opinion that they comply and the HC would extend reasonable steps to include this type of situation.
However the HC has not ruled on a situation like this, so there is no absolute certainty.
The HC rulings have been very black letter when dealing with people who have not bothered to discover or renounce citizenship but they have demonstrated that they are willing to be more tolerant of someone who has taken the appropriate actions.
For this reason I think Labor’s legal opinion may be right, but until the 3 are referred to the HC and they rule, we do not know for sure.
Well that’s how I see it anyway. 🙂
It amazes me that no one ask MT why has he changed his view about Bill Shortens contribution within 12 hours?
PhoenixRED
Rick Wilson is probably on the money re Carter Page. Although I still imagine him being the Keyser Soze’ character played by the now infamous Kevin Spacey in the Usual Suspects.
Kop says:
Thursday, November 9, 2017 at 12:26 pm
NotTurnbull’s response;
🙂
Barney
I would image the HC ruling that if a person has taken all reasonable steps before the close of nominations, regardless of the determination of the other country, the person should be eligible.
The problem is that another country may take x years to process the application, if at all. Unlikely, but possible. So as long as the process was followed by the candidate to the letter, there should be no problem.
The problem I have with the duals is that they seem incapable of honouring one Constitution, let alone two of them.
victoria says: Thursday, November 9, 2017 at 12:32 pm
PhoenixRED
Rick Wilson is probably on the money re Carter Page. Although I still imagine him being the Keyser Soze’ character played by the now infamous Kevin Spacey in the Usual Suspects.
****************************************************
I liken him to Mr Bean – the poppy eyes, the permanent dumb look, a stunted man-child and that’s not the same thing.
The problem, of course, is that he’s not really a child. He’s a grown man. He’s also a complete numbskull. The literal definition of the word dumb, in that he’s also apparently unable to speak, Mr. Bean is in his own world and doesn’t let the fact that others are trying to live in any way impact his own existence. It’s best that he not deal with people because when he does he has no idea how to interact with anyone.
Kold Konnection says:
Thursday, November 9, 2017 at 12:34 pm
The scenario in your second paragraph is already covered by reasonable steps.
But my main point on this is, you imagine, I think, Labor’s legal opinion says, it’s all opinion and until the HC is able to make a ruling on the point nobody knows for sure.
For sure, but in all probability the argument has a greater chance of standing up to scrutiny than the Solicitor Generals advice (according to the govt) that duel citizens born in Australia should be able to sit in Parliament and ones that were not should not.
BK assuming you did the link, that New Matilda article about the Greens needs to carry a “warning: this article contains some wacky assertions” label. There were some interesting points but by the time I finished I was wondering if the writer had a few kangaroos missing from the top paddock. Confirmed by most of the comments following.
I suspect Mal wants the long timeline for his citizenship resolution so his people in danger has time to put in the paperwork to renounce and present the ‘reasonable steps’ argument to cover all MPs … them being so many that the HC will be forced to rule in favour of accepting that argument.
Difference between his side and ALP is labor did due diligence and got the paperwork in and acknowledged prior to close of noms. Whether this argument will stand in HC is anyone’s guess.
A look at the Smith legislation to allow SSM.
I have problems with this exemption of military chaplains.
My understanding is that a chaplain serves the needs of an organisation and its people in a nondenominational way.
So if some Churches embrace SSM then as a chaplain they should reflect that in their ministering.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/09/smiths-same-sex-marriage-bill-isnt-perfect-but-its-a-workable-compromise
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/08/malcolm-turnbull-is-a-dud-all-onion-and-no-abbott-just-how-cooked-is-he
BiGD
Your question on military chaplains is interesting.
Kold Konnection says:
Thursday, November 9, 2017 at 12:50 pm
I agree, but there are people here who are are equally adamant that the HC will take a black letter view of these cases.
Kold Konnection says:
Thursday, November 9, 2017 at 12:09 pm
They are presumed to be conflicted, to be untrustworthy.
The current saga has proven that presumption maybe for good reason.
….So, so many duel citizens in parliament, too many to count. Something is a little fishy.
There is nothing “fishy” about dual citizens. More than half the population are dual citizens. It is entirely lawful in Australia to be a dual citizen yet their political rights are abridged.
The meaning of S44(i) is that these citizens – this majority of the population – are being told they are not to be trusted. This indictment is arrived at as a matter of law, regardless of the actual circumstances, acts or beliefs of any individual. It is discriminatory. It is archaic. It is also ludicrous.
I hope Sam Dastyari does press a complaint against his racist abusers last night. Groups like Patriot Blue need to be put under the microscope. As Trumpian America has demonstrated, the more they get away with flouting the law, the more they feel emboldened to break it.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-09/sam-dastyari-ambushed-in-pub/9132642
I know Windhover will be back to tell us all how wrong we are and the HC has settled the question for all time, but…
Dastyari’s position (or some future candidate of Iranian descent) is actually significantly advantaged by the strictest reading of the judgment Windhover (quite probably correctly) asserts will be applied to knock out Keay.
Because Iranian law is known, someone seeking to renounce is not impared by Iran’s lack of response. So long as the candidate has gone through the charade of renouncing, by sending off the letters, protesting at the embassy or whatever before signing the nomination form then they’re done. They could in effect do all this on the morning of close of nominations. There isn’t going to be a confirmation, so there is no way to say that they should have done it earlier.
But that creates an obviously ridiculous situation where if you’re renouncing UK citizenship you are at the mercy of the vagaries of when a civil servant gets around to it, but to renounce Iran the successful conclusion is entirely in your hands (and that’s even before you get to the point of assessing the form of the renunciation which has no correct form for Iran and so can’t really be adjudicated, just the vibe).
The HC will do what it will do. I’m sure the point of reasonable steps is to put all potential candidates on a reasonably level field, not to give those accessing it a clear and in Keay’s case a likely definitive advantage.
A warning to all messengers. You may get shot if you deliver bad news to the PM over the next few days. That is just what secure leaders do.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-09/malcolm-turnbull-takes-on-karl-stefanovic/9132928
Socrates says:
Thursday, November 9, 2017 at 1:13 pm
GG, posted an article earlier suggesting it related to one of the people involved.
If this is the case and there is a history of this type of behaviour then I think a complaint would be appropriate.
Barney
From what I saw of the video there is sufficient evidence to complaint on last night alone. Each incident should be judged on its merits. Unless Dastyari somehow provoked the incident (no evidence of that) then there are clearly racist terms used in an abusive manner.
BIGD:
Some of your post is right, some is wrong. I will bother with the wrong.
[The reasonable steps provision was in relation to someone who couldn’t renounce a citizenship, but in the Roberts case they dismissed his ineffectual attempts as being unreasonable as they did not reflect the clear process required to renounce British citizenship.
This suggests that the concept of reasonable steps is not beyond expansion to other situations.]
In no part of the HC decision is there any reference to Roberts steps to renounce as being unreasonable.
The concept of taking “reasonable steps” is a very restrictive loop-hole. It applies because of a “Constitutional imperative” explained in [43] of the decision. That imperative is that s.44 should be read as enabling everyone (except the treasonous) otherwise eligible to stand to be able to remediate their situation. So, if you are a bankrupt, you can stand when you are discharged. If you hold an office for profit under the Crown, once you have resigned you can stand. Once you renounce your dual citizenship, you can stand.
The “reasonable steps” loophole exists (as a Constitutional imperative) to enable those dual citizens of foreign countries who can try to renounce until they are blue in the face but are still regarded as citizens. The HC has said ONLY IN THAT CASE can you avoid the s.44 bar by taking “reasonable steps”.
So whether “reasonable steps” arises for consideration is dependent in the first place ENTIRELY on the laws of the foreign country the candidate is a dual citizen of. If the foreign country has amenable methods of renouncing citizenship “reasonable steps” is irrelevant. As it was for Roberts.
Thanks Windhover.
I hope it goes before the HC so we know one way or the other for sure. 🙂
Sounds like a very ‘united’ party!
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-09/hanson-battler-bus-breaks-down-on-highway-near-rockhampton/9133374
I thought One Nation usually broke down squabbling shortly AFTER the election?
Windhover,
IIRC the reasonable steps references relate to the discovery of the facts hearing in relation to Roberts.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/nov/09/far-right-abuse-of-sam-dastyari-dangerous-human-rights-chief-says
* The Bendigo case ~
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-05/three-men-found-guilty-of-inciting-serious-contempt-for-muslims/8874804