With new results from Morgan and Essential Research added to the mix, the BludgerTrack poll aggregate records a slight move to Labor of 0.3% on two-party preferred. The main mover on the primary vote this week is the Greens, who got an unusually strong result from Essential Research. Evidence continues to accumulate that the Coalition’s recent recovery has been strongest in New South Wales and weakest in South Australia, although both are unchanged on the seat projection this week, with Labor’s two gains drawn from Victoria and Tasmania. Nothing new on leadership approval this week, and it seems likely we have a quiet week ahead of us due to the Anzac Day long weekend (UPDATE: Turns out that’s only true in some states, but it’s certainly the case that Newspoll won’t be polling this weekend).
[Australia needs to show proof of alleged corruption in the trial of two Australians on death row before Indonesia’s government will investigate, the foreign ministry said, questioning why concerns were being only raised now instead of 10 years ago.]
Good answer good question, but both will be ignored because they are corrupt you know.
A bludger earlier referenced this matter. ABC report is more detailed. I seriously dont see how Springborg can justify this conduct
[Embattled Queensland MP Billy Gordon has called for a police probe into the leaking of confidential federal documents that identify his children, vowing that Opposition Leader Lawrence Springborg must “account for his actions”.]
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-27/billy-gordon-police-probe-needed-into-leaking-of-documents/6423820?section=qld
WWP @ 1586
[That is completely ass about, you are assuming they wouldn’t have deserved the death sentence, but for the lack of a bribe, where all the evidence is clearly that they did deserve the death sentence but a bribe might have got them out of it.]
But that is the whole point. If you want to look at the chain of causation leading to the execution of a decision to impose judicial murder, all you need to do is look at any link in the chain.
You could go back through the history that led to these two men being in the situation they are now in and pick off any link in the chain. If they had not gone through Bali. If the AFP had not arranged for the Indonesians to do the AFP’s dirty work for them. Maybe even if they had behaved better at their trials. But I’m pretty certain that one link in the chain of causation is the fact that they did not pay the necessary bribes.
The problem with judicial murder is that it is so arbitrary wherever it is imposed. This is just another example of arbitrariness – as are the cases of every other one of the ones facing the same fate this week. Why is the French welder, even assuming he acted knowingly, being murdered ahead of his co-defendents who were also sentenced to death? Why is an African being murdered for having 50 grams of cocaine in his possession when others, including the seven other members of the Bali Nine, had so much more? Why did an Indonesian amphetamine factory owner get his death sentence commuted immediately after Chan and Sukumaran had their appeals turned down?
So, of course, if the chain of events, including the actual carriage of heroin through Indonesia, leading up to the death sentence had not occurred, they would almost certainly not be where they are now. But not paying a corrupt bribe is as much a part of that chain of events as any other part.
vic,
I read somewhere that the amount Gordon is alleged not to have paid is $24 out of a settlement in the thousands of dollars.
zoomster –
What she wrote is entirely wrong or dishonest.
Re the Paula Matthewson piece on the Greens becoming what they opposed (etc), it is incorrect. Bob Brown was elected on 0.25% of the national vote whereas Ricky Muir was elected on 0.5% of the state vote. Bob Brown’s election on such a small proportion was not because he was elected on dodgy preference deals but was because he was elected from Tasmania, and at the time the Tasmanian Greens were listed as a different entity to Greens in other states. The issue of whether someone should be able to get a Senate seat off a tiny share of the national vote because they are elected in Tasmania is a completely valid one and my view is very strongly that they shouldn’t and that Tas should not have so many Senators. But it is a totally different issue to Muir and to the Senate reform matter.
victoria:
[Possum @Pollytics · Apr 24
If you were a public servant and did what Springborg did today with private information – you would be sacked. No ifs, no buts]
GG
From recollection, Springborg is claiming that when Gordon made his statement to Parliament last month stating that he had made sure that his child support payment were up to date, that he misled parliament, cos it was not true. But it would seem that perhaps $24 was outstanding. Shock horror!
And as mentioned in. ABC report, Gordon says that Springborg is making incorrect assumptions
[Mr Gordon said Mr Springborg’s actions showed a total ignorance of the workings of the child support system in Australia.
He said child support debts were debited on the ledger and then credited on the ledger some time after the payment was automatically deducted from a person’s income.
“These appalling tactics by the Opposition Leader are the most base gutter politics,” he said.]
Fess
Agree with Possum
How a 10 year old and Bernie fraser are helping incite a public war against super tax concessions for the rich
http://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/how-a-10-year-old-and-bernie-fraser-are-helping-incite-a-public-war-against-super-tax-concessions-for-the-rich-20150427-1mu70s.html
wwp@1636
[nor do I view Indonesians as less intelligent, less civilized or less human. Which seems to be the underlying theme of today’s rants.]
Nor do I. Not while so many States in the USA maintain a right to exercise judicial murder – which applies in a grossly disproportionate way to the very poor and the blacks. Indeed, there are plenty of Australians who happily bay for real blood to be shed when they see a particularly attractive cause.
Let’s strip this down. It’s not about the character of Indonesians. It’s about the character of the political class and the military class that has grown up over the decades there. It is not a reflection of the intelligence, civilisation or humanity of Indonesians. Indeed, there are many there who share the concerns that we are sharing here about these judicial murders. But the fact is that death penalties are a pretty gruesome and hideous way to court popularity – and should be called out where it occurs. This case is a big deal in Australia because it involves Australian citizens.
Personally, I am more horrified at what appears to be the gross injustice being visited on some of the others facing being murdered than Chan and Sukumaran. Indeed, the strongest argument in their favour is that killing them will not do any good whatsoever while, given what they have done since their convictions, letting them live could do a lot of good for a lot of people, especially Indonesians.
wwp @1648
[why isn’t the Govt just buying them off?]
Because the price of buying them off would be too high for us, given the return on investment.
Not sure how Springborg can survive this one.
Which is ironic. Releasing personal information on political opponents kids, accusing others of lying and getting the understanding of the process wrong will make him a laughing stock.
Not sure how he did it. But he’s made Billy a martyr in this matter.
Being a Queensland issue, I’ll no doubt be totally wrong.
WeWantPaul@1648
Actually, you are pointing toward the negotiating technique I would have used behind closed doors.
Simply ask the Indonesian President what he wanted to commute the sentences.
As soon as he names his price, you have established the principle that he is open to negotiation and start haggling to get to something realistic.
The “celebrity” involved in HouliGate is apparently 3AW breakfast host John Burns.
GG
I dont pretend to know who QLD electorate will respond to this matter. It is gutter politics at its worst. What happened to due process?
Link: https://twitter.com/theheraldsun/status/592556490701074432
Not to mention the trifling matter that Australia has a long professed belief that we should not be bribing foreign officials. Like it’s actually supposed to be against the law for Australians to do this. Not that anyone gets prosecuted for it, of course.
DG
i thought it was a 3aw commentator! I got that bit right. But not for one second did I think it was JBurns
WeWantPaul@1651
Mostly answered on RN Breakfast this morning.
But of course it is a PM thing to boast about never listening to that excellent and informative program.
They had an expert on Indonesian Law from Melbourne University this morning.
Old Burnsy
Who would have thought.
GG,
As a fellow non-Cane Toad I think you are completely right (including the bit about being totally wrong).
But the fact that the Borg is a three time loser is probably not coincidental so there is a chance.
Remember when Joe told us every day that burgeoning debt was the cause of all Labor evil…….
“Having been in power for less than 20 months, the Abbott government has added over $83 billion to the level of government debt”.
http://thekouk.com/blog/mr-abbott-s-binge-on-government-debt.html#.VTwzzmsGjoA.twitter
KB @ 1656
Like it or not we have a Federal system under our constitution and the allocation of Senators among the states is set out in the Constitution quite deliberately recognising the differences in population among the states and also recognising that the smaller states needed some form of protection from the will of the majority.
I regard the national vote as totally irrelevant. If someone stands as an Independent, they will get no votes outside of the electorate in which they stand, but that does not make their election technically or morally less valid. Like it or not, we do not have a national proportional representation system, so the votes that a party attracts outside a given electorate are irrelevant it seems to me.
shellbell
Here is statement from John Burns.
http://www.3aw.com.au/news/johns-burns-and-richmond-statements-20150427-1mubgj.html
GG
Shorten and Labor should be screaming this from the rooftops!
Joe says a lot of things. If ever one turns out to be true no doubt he’ll claim to have been taken out of context and issue a retraction.
TPOF
[also recognising that the smaller states needed some form of protection from the will of the majority.]
And there’s the Territories – unequal representation abounds.
GG @ 1664
[Not sure how he did it. But he’s made Billy a martyr in this matter.
Being a Queensland issue, I’ll no doubt be totally wrong.]
Springborg and Gordon are playing to different electorates. Given the extent to which Gordon’s life reflects the experience of so many indigenous people I think he will be strengthened in his electorate for fighting back and standing his ground.
Springborg, on the other hand, is appealing to those who are always happy to pass judgement on the character of Aboriginals that they would not pass on the character of non-indigenous. Whatever the situation, he is on very shaky moral ground, even in Queensland, because the ‘sins’ he is pursuing are so not clear-cut (compared to Craig Thomson for example).
No, they should be calm and measured. Trying to outdo Abbott-style debt and deficit hysteria gets them nowhere.
Proposing a sensible plan and rejecting any of the Coalition nonsense is what they should be focusing on now.
Of course all these facts and figures should be filed away ready to pull out as soon as any LNP type starts using “Labor’s waste” or other such arguments, but the ALP should definitely not be adding rhetorical fuel to that particular fire.
Jackol
Labor have been extremely calm and measured to date. They need to start calling out the abysmal failure this govt is
[And there’s the Territories – unequal representation abounds.]
But the Territories have no rights under the Constitution and have to be happy with what scraps are thrown to them from the commonwealth Parliament and their own political oomph (of which the NT has a disproportionate amount). There is a very strong case that overall the Senate is not a State’s House but another political party house and therefore does not meet the objectives sought through the constitutional settlement. Be that as it may we are stuck with it.
Victoria
Nice behind closed doors resolution
shellbell
Looks that way
1656
Unfortunately for the democratic equality of one vote, one value, Tasmanian voters have a veto over loosing seats in the Commonwealth Parliament. And I think you would be in a minority in the referendum to change the situation that is so unlikely to pass, it is unlikely to happen.
TPOF
[But the Territories have no rights under the Constitution and have to be happy with what scraps are thrown to them from the commonwealth Parliament ]
Morally this is just fine, of course.
[Labor have been extremely calm and measured to date. They need to start calling out the abysmal failure this govt is]
As I point out to my spouse when she persists in telling our son what to do, you really only learn what is the right thing to do when you make your own mistakes – not when someone tells you that you are wrong.
Rather than Bill and Labor screaming at the Australian Electorate about how they elected the biggest bunch of incompetent fools in our history, the Australian electorate needs to come to that conclusion itself, reinforced by appropriate commentary delivered with the right tone.
GG
I suspect Springborg will survive because it is queensland.
Richmond FC consider the matter closed according to the 3AW website.
I wonder if Burns apologised directly to the player or through the club.
Was excess alcohol involved? Always a convenient excuse.
Interesting to see how much pressure was applied to 3AW by the AFL regarding this incident.
All very ironic given 3AW’s much vaunted ‘rumour file’ that is broadcast on that gentleman’s show each weekday morning.
Suggest the ‘celebrity’ involved may wish to keep a low profile for a while and keep their mouth shut.
TPOF
Shorten doesnt have to scream at the electorate. Merely remind the voters what they are getting. i know this opportunity will come in the form of a budget reply, but still think they need to say more generally
[John Burns.]
Never heard of him.
Make no mistake – our reptoid PM is now claiming the Cemeteries on the Western Front for the Liberal Party because they’re prepared to spend at least $100m on one of them.
F%$k of Abbott – you have no connection.
CTar1
And yet this reptoid PM was willing to cut the pay of current serving ADF personnel
Spending $100 mill on the dead and departed is a lot of moolah for a shroud. How many schools could be built? How many extra surgical procedures could be conducted?
This arm race on Anzac love must stop!
Confessions @ 1692
No loss really.
John Burns is one half of John & Ross (Stevenson) who have the breakfast show on 3AW (Melbourne’s lite version of 2GB, etc)
They began on 3RRR a community FM station as ‘Laywers, Guns & Money’ many years ago before being picked up by AW.
According to some their show is ‘required listening’ particularly their ‘Rumour File’ a slot where rumours are raised from people calling in… most are nonense whereas others (surprisingly) turn out to be correct.
They are relatively lightweight for 3AW and probably ease listeners into the grumpy Neil Mitchell ranting and raving show.
TPOF, I respect and on a personal level agree with much of what you say about executions, but I differ from you in that I consider Indonesia is entitled to make the decision / value judgement for themselves.
In relation to the whole chain of causation thing, I missed RN this morning so missed out on the Indonesian legal expert and wasn’t able to form an opinion.
As for the AFP link in the chain, I would be very comfortable / happy if the relevant AFP decisions makers were charged with manslaughter and given 10 years jail to think about it. Apparently sending Australians to die for your career was both legal and acceptable to the AFP at the time.
As for the judges and corruption endemic or otherwise like the their right to have a death sentence I guess they have a right to run their country as they want. I don’t think the current allegations have any impact on the outcome.
Just imagine if they had bribed the original judges and the prosecutors had appealed and got the death sentence on appeal. How happy would they have been – not much i feel. But the appeals have happened and other than whether or not the original court should be jailed for bribery their sentence is now two appeals ago and all but irrelevant.
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/gay-liberal-senator-dean-smith-slams-tanya-plibersek-over-gay-marriage-move-20150427-1mu99l.html
Why is it always Labor’s fault that the Liberals can’t get their act together – whether it is managing the economy or allowing a conscience vote on same sex marriage? Really, why have a government that is incapable of doing anything but blame everyone else for their own non-achievements.
SGH:
Clearly I’m not missing anything. 🙂
Confessions @ 1699
No. Not at all.
For the record I do not listen to 3AW at all.