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Author: William Bowe
William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, has existed in one form or another since 2004, and is one of the most heavily trafficked websites on Australian politics.
View all posts by William Bowe
245 –
fantastic you think so highly of it GP.
those ungrateful aborigines have got it wrong again.
245 – Of course you do. That’s because you have no understanding of human rights or international law.
You got it Jen – it is racism though it’s disguised in many ways. Tonight it’s an economic costume (“… Billions of dollars later…) but the costume never really hides what’s underneath i.e. the fact that racism is alive and well in the Liberal party.
[I fully support the NT intervention. It is practical reconciliation delivering REAL not fanciful outcomes.]
Which is going to cost $2 billion in its first year. So stop crapping on with how much indigenous policy has cost in the past. If it fixes disadvantage, then it is worth every dollar.
GP perhaps youd be more comfortable living in the repugnant republic of O’connor
GP – the problem is that it is substantiated and that people like yourself can’t accept or recognise this.
That’s why you’re all over the place – every time you’re argued into a position where you might have to see the truth, it’s too much for you, so you shift the argument.
(Your latest shift is from ‘we’ve nothing to apologise for’, ‘it’s the responsibility of state governments’ to talking about systemic failures in policy – you obviously cannot keep track of your own arguments).
I know it’s hard to look at what has been done to the Aboriginal people in this country, to admit that the ongoing damage they suffer as a people is our fault, but it is and we have to accept that.
Modern Australia is built upon dispossession and the basis of this dispossession was the racist pretence that Australia had no prior owners, that it was ‘terra nullius’, an empty land.
Everything that followed came out of that initial guilt – and believe me, the determined efforts made by white Australians to wipe out Aborigines, to make them invisible, suggests a sort of moral panic.
You obviously do feel guilty, or you wouldn’t keep trying to justify yourself here.
GP
whilst defending your right to express your views i disagree with your polemic
perhaps what the real issue is that each one of us regardless of political leanings accepts that a GRAVE injustice occurred up until the early 1970’s BY every political party
That is what the apology is all about.
To throw the dice the other way
where does the UK sit in regards to culpability and continuation of an effecticely genocidal policy framework.Is it liable for formulating such a policy and if so should we be holding the UK partly responsible?
No 247
International law is impotent and has scarcely a standing among sovereign nations.
The 1967 constitutional amendment allowed the Australian government to govern for all races. That is what the constitution says…you know, the document that underpins our entire political system.
252
Whether or not international law is currently enforced does not make what it says irrelevant. I notice you don’t comment on your understanding of human rights, which is just as well considering.
And your point about the constitution is—??
252 – GP – Yes because as individuals as part of this world, we should all do our duty to ignore international law.
Because the world works so well without the rule of law.
The government can govern for all races, but not discriminatorily, by breaching a Commonwealth Act, namely the Commonwealth Racial Discrimination Act.
Selective blindness seems to be a common theme throughout your posts.
251
The Brits have got their own version of stolen children…..many transported to children’s homes here and identities obliterated.
Yep, they aren’t cleanskins.
“The 1967 constitutional amendment allowed the Australian government to govern for all races”
Whoops – forgot about one. But then, they should have just fitted in with the rest of us Europeans.
GP: did someone say you’re doing a law degree? You mustn’t have yet done constitutional law…or even jurisprudence or legal reasoning. When you get there you will see how often the High Court consults and reflects on international law and, indeed, the law of other jurisdictions. Most notably, the Mason court, in Mabo 2, consulted Canadian law in relation to its indigenous people. While the Gleeson court has been less open in this regard (with the exception of Kirby J) it is fast becoming an anachronism in this respect.
Last word from me tonight. I was somewhat apprehensive about Kev’s speech today. Hard old bastard that I am ( I’ll take your children away if you mistreat them – to the extent we can do you in the court), but Kev has set some real goals. I hope he gets a bloke on board callled Paul Memmot who’s done some amazing stuff. He’s both an architect and anthropologist, recently put out a book on Aboriginal architecture, absolutely mind blowing. Try the U of Q Press, if you’re interested, or I’ll rummage around tomorrow if you can’t find it.
What would I do without Pollbludgers? You’re a legend, William, and now I’ve finished sucking up, do you need money?
counting, deep breaths…
Today was a remarkable day. and just like Brendan Nelson’s inept and offensive response, I do not want to allow the views of those who are unwilling or incapable of understanding the immense pain we as settlers have caused indigeneous Australians to cast a shadow on and the significant progress we have made today.
I am proud to have witnessed such a moment in our history.
Accolades to all those who have worked so hard and for so long to bring it about.
[‘I know it’s hard to look at what has been done to the Aboriginal people in this country, to admit that the ongoing damage they suffer as a people is our fault, but it is and we have to accept that.’]
I, nor anyone else in modern day Australia, is guilty of any injustice committed in the past by our predecessors and I abhor any suggestion of the sort.
I am deeply disappointed by the failure of policy by government after government, but I am not morally culpable and nor is anyone else.
Welfarism and victimology have underpinned indigenous policy for far too long. The NT intervention, for all its criticisms, is bringing much needed health and education resources to Aboriginal children. Dramatic problems require dramatic solutions.
Human rights lawyer (and future Australian President) Geoffery Robertson now says it is time for the U.K. parliament to apologise for setting up the protectors pre-federation:
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23206187-1702,00.html
[I, nor anyone else in modern day Australia, is guilty of any injustice committed in the past by our predecessors and I abhor any suggestion of the sort.]
Didn’t you vote in the last election? Today the Australian Parliament voted to apologise for past government policies that were discriminatory.
Since we live in a democracy, the parliament represents the Australian population, ergo, it apologised on your behalf.
[I am deeply disappointed by the failure of policy by government after government, but I am not morally culpable and nor is anyone else.]
No, but Governments are, and since we live in a representative democracy, they represent the population.
[Welfarism and victimology have underpinned indigenous policy for far too long. ]
So has racist paternalism, which is what today’s apology was for. You can read the text of it if you don’t believe me.
[The NT intervention, for all its criticisms, is bringing much needed health and education resources to Aboriginal children. Dramatic problems require dramatic solutions.]
And $2 billion dollars. So don’t you ever complain every again about how much money has been spent on indigenous disadvantage.
260
It’s called denial, GP.
You have profitted from the actions of the past. Someone who profits from crime is an accessory.
Australia is presently experiencing an economic boom based on mineral exports, for example. The Government cheerfully grants licenses for these minerals to be extracted. The money goes to supporting our way of life.
The land under leasehold once belonged to Aboriginal people (in some cases still does and in these cases they’re doing OK financially).
So, presently, you are directly benefitting from the dispossession of the Australian people.
You also presumably voted in government after government – or at least voted for some of them. This makes you to some extent morally responsble for the failures of these governments (at least the ones you voted for).
If you’re not morally culpable and noone else is either, then who is? God?
Isn’t intervention the ultimate in welfarism and victimology? After all, the presumption of the intervention is that we know how to fix the problems and they don’t, so we’ll look after it (welfarism); and rescuing children from abuse (victimology).
200 years of damage to a society cannot be undone in a few decades. Aboriginal society – which, as I’ve pointed out before, is really a number of quite different cultures we whack under the one label for our own convenience – has been effectively destroyed. To be rebuilt, we have to be prepared to give Aboriginal people responsibility for their own lives. This means they will make mistakes, of course it does, that’s part of learning. We have to resist the impulse to do it all for them and let them work it out for themselves.
259
Agree,Jen, and let’s not forget those who worked so hard but didn’t live to see this wonderful day……the late Peter Andren, that wonderful Independent for Calare and also the late Ron Wilson.
So many good souls have done the footwork to make this a fairer society with no personal gain in the offing.
My head will rest easier tonight.
Showson
SBS did GR as part of “who do you think you are” series-the seminal moment was when he stood with the laird of his ancestral area/home and decried the conditions that his ancestors had to endure whilst living in scotland and then on the ship that transported them to OZ-truly horrible conditions both in the hovel that was his ggparents and the ship/hulk .
the laird stood uncomprehendingly that they(GR”S gg parents) had suffered. therin is the nub of the problem
ps i think GR is headed for the Hague, though would be outstanding choice for president in any case
Thank you Mr Rudd. A true statesman and a truly moral leader, you have made me feel… what’s that strange emotion? I can barely recall. Could it be… national pride?
So who of us writing here are black?
I work with a large group of non-indigenous people who themselves work in indigenous communities as teachers. It takes them years to click to the issues, if they dont leave beforehand.
The problem is that just like many correspondence here they dont really understand because they come from our white culture. I have worked with indigenous people for many years and still lack an understanding of what it is to be them.
I believe that while we can engage in the petty arguments of being sorry or being practical there are very few non-indigenous people who really get it.
Should we be sorry for past actions? I believe we should. However my gut feeling about today is that it did more to appease our feelings of guilt than anything else.
Brendan Nelson tried to make mainstream Australia feel better about it self today.
I am disappointed with the discussion here, it is so distant from the truth.
We cannot live as a true community until the crap is expunged. How does that happen? It happens when we realise life presents us all with challenges that exist beyond politics.
I cannot appreciate truly what happened today but I am able to say I hope it is the beginning of bringing us all together and we drop the petty discussion.
A great day.
For the first people, for those of us who arrived, took, finally have given something back. The new look Parliament, including handshakes, a walk together of the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition. A mutual enjoining to a future, a work in progress for our first people.
My congratulations, Kevin. Heartening to see all the people in the Chamber, the Hall, the lawns, over Australia. Tearful, happy, a start. The Speaker, not draped in that weird and somewhat scarey black outfit. The Parliament being opened by people, in ordinary garb and especially by our first people.
Brendan Nelson. His first and only chance for his finest day. Ruined, by his hope of gaining the support of his colleagues, in pursuit of his continued leadership of the Liberal Party, and those who vote Liberal. This is a dreadful mistake on his part. Rather than fully participating, he allowed himself to be demeaned, and therefore demeaned his own.
A stand needed to be taken, once and for all. This catering to those who cherish views that have no credence does him no good. His party will know that he can be manipulated, that he is now a creature of their various wills.
Brendan will need every moral fibre to participate in Kevin’s invitation, as he will be lead to the good and principled, against members of his party.
He may as well have started with a bang. Opportunity lost. Missed it, he will find.
Interesting too, that not only John Howard did not attend, neither did Noel Pearson. Is Noel so fixated on his Howard years?
[Showson
SBS did GR as part of “who do you think you are” series-]
I’m sorry I missed it. I first heard about Robertson from reading his book The Justice Game. It made me sit up and realise the day to day battles that lawyers of good will face to defend what we should all consider fundamental rights. He is someone I greatly admire, who I hope eventually becomes Australia’s Head of State. As I understand it he is a self confessed Republican, so it would be best for him to become our President, rather than Govenor General.
The next Govenor General will probably be our last, and I personally think it should be a woman.
[Interesting too, that not only John Howard did not attend, neither did Noel Pearson. Is Noel so fixated on his Howard years?]
His article in The Australian is worth a read:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23196221-28737,00.html
He tries to adopt something of a conservative stance by saying that the apology will lead to a sense of victim hood. But if you make it to the end of his article you find that he supported an apology, provided it came with monetary compensation.
I honestly believe he had good will towards both sides of the debate, but it is ironic that his end stance was among the most radical, that an apology without compensation wouldn’t be an apology at all.
To Crikey Whitey
“Interesting too, that not only John Howard did not attend, neither did Noel Pearson. Is Noel so fixated on his Howard years?”
The fact Noel Pearson did not attend is surely a matter for him. Just as it is for anyone else who was not physically present.
Why would you see fit to denigrate an Aboriginal activist because he expresses his views?
No group is homogeneous in view but his view is better informed than ours
268.
So well said….and so say all of us….
It was the warmth that shone through which will stay with me,the sheer good-will shown.
Am impressed at how Kevin has managed to change the mood of this nation in such a short time and I think that Nelson will rue today as/if he reflects.
The churlishness by those who snubbed this event will be noted in years to come. Small men.
[Interesting too, that not only John Howard did not attend, neither did Noel Pearson. Is Noel so fixated on his Howard years?]
And another notable absentee, citing work reasons, was Sue Gordon.
And of course, The West has to throw in a bit of subtle racism in how Schools should mark the event.
http://www.thewest.com.au/default.aspx?MenuID=77&ContentID=58285
Colin. I would guess most people posting here would not be First Folk. Nevertheless, many of us are passionate about what happens to our fellow humans. Is that O.K. with you?
Colin, i agree with you totally, today was pure tokenism.
It was as Mungo Macallum pointed out a manifesto gone mad. Instead of pure gestures action is required.
I would start by doing a complete audit of all aboriginal communities in this country to gauge all the problems, in the meantime i would do what we do with money for superannuation for public servants- set up a trust fund with a couple of billion and use this money solely for dealing with the problems which an audit obtains. Instead of this willy nilly approach of housing and throwing money around it is time to organise all the problems and go from their.
I can see the States and Commonwealth getting into bed with bureacrats and wasting money again. It is time to do it properly- simple.
Colin
Np has expressesd his view over the years according to the circumstances.
as you correctly stated he is an Aboriginal activist. and a good one at that.
most whitefellas dont understand that that you can be a blackfella and have a divergent view-comes from only a couple thousand years of culture v 70000+ years of wisdom.as part of the healing acknowledgement is but the first step.
“none so blind as those that wont see”
Notwithstanding that I have yet to read that article, ShowsOn, I have long had a feeling that Noel Pearson became captive to a certain idea, heavily influenced by one JWH.
It is almost that Noel assumes the mantle passed, of guilt and responsibility.
Certainly his intention of improving his people’s lot is impeccable. He embraces education, work, enhanced chances in life. Growth and the imperative sense of self worth.
Reparation, in whatever form, is necessary, in my view. And part of the recommendations.
But it is strange to me, that a person whose cause is advancement of his people, would not have lead on this momentous occasion.
As a whitey, simple question why isn’t our indigenous minister an aborigine? Having a white person dealing with such problems is ridiclous.
As a whitey, simple question why isn’t our indigenous minister an aborigine? Having a white person dealing with such problems is ridiclous.]
Perhaps the reason is that there are currently no Indigineous federal members of the Govt ?
I understand the situation, but realistically white people making decisions on behalf of black people should not be occurring- i hope Macklin has some advisors who are from the indigenous community.
Nonetheless as i said it is time that a complete analysis was done of all the problems and from what i see one of main ones is employment and this issue must be addressed.
Oh yes, Frank Calabrese.
Another person, Sue Gordon. Whose views, judgement and affiliations I find a little disturbing.
Co-opted comes to mind.
Suits a person, such as JWH, who looked for those in their own people whose views happened to support his own.
A feeling that they are at fault, perhaps?
Marky
elevation and appointment on merit is the sole recourse for a democracy staying a democracy
otherwise -by definition it aint a democracy
whether Oz is a mature democracy is another question!
Dolly’s about to jump ship and work for Natasha Stott-Despoja’s Husband.
http://www.thewest.com.au/aapstory.aspx?StoryName=459306
To “Harry ;Snapper” Organs”
Dear Harry
I adore passion!
The point I was trying to make was that we need all ( I include myself here) to be circumspect on issues we dont fully comprehend, and this is a biggy.
Sure we can be passionate on reconciliation, practical measures, the apology.
The point is be so passionate we put ourselves in indigenous people’s position and see their view. It is not one, just as any group view on a significant issue will differ.
But however passionate we are we all have to acknowledge we have different experiences and need to be careful our passion does not replace recognition of different experiences.
No matter what anyone says indigenous Australians have experiences we cannot comprehend.
Just as individual indigenous people have their personal history that cannot be stereotyped.
No 268
I suspect the Aborigines would have frowned upon Nelson regardless of his position.
I think Kevin Rudd is to be commended for his actions today. Today is an historic time in our nation’s history.
I just wonder if Paul Keating had been given this opportunity we would have had a speech commensurate with the Gettysburg Address?
No 286
Oh please, colin. Paul Keating is a shameful blemish on this nation’s history.
I listened to Australia Talks, Wednesday evening.
A caller posed the question of what she, us, could do as our effort in reconciliation.
She had participated in one of the public events, but felt she had not been able to include herself, in a way which would have been, oh, I don’t know, she may have meant meaningfully.
I don’t know that anyone responded, as a phone call came in, but I did think that if any of those who are not personally acquainted with an aboriginal person, that we should do so, in whatever way that can be managed.
To live in a person’s life makes it real to us, and we see that they are the same.
It is the weird estrangement, a part of our old, pattern of culture, which creates problems of misunderstanding.
Apologies for slow clearance of comments from moderation.
To Generic Person
Paul Keating had his failings but as an orator and social activist I think he was OK.
I may be mistaken but I think he made a speech at Redfern that had elements repeated today 14 years later,
GP
I agree Brendan Nelson was behind the eight ball. However he could have beena Statesman!
Can’t Downer be placed on a banned lobbyist list a la Brian Bourke on account of… on account of.. .well,on account of just being Downer, a pompous, scheming, toadying, obfuscating, puncing prat.
No 297
It’s not that simple, especially given the apprehensiveness he faced within the party.
No 298
Alexander Downer was an upstanding Foreign Minister. Your account is totally inaccurate, Mr Sammut.