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Author: William Bowe
William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, has existed in one form or another since 2004, and is one of the most heavily trafficked websites on Australian politics.
View all posts by William Bowe
No 198
Let me know, mate, when you intend to contribute something less infantile.
…
No 197
That’s the point apres. Symbols have never achieved anything of material value to Aboriginal communities except for a warm fuzzy feeling inside.
Yet, when the symbols are cast aside, the same old problems that have plagued Aboriginal communities remain. Indeed, as Noel Pearson wrote in The Australian yesterday, symbols risk reinforcing victimology amongst the indigenous community.
196 – last ditch policy decisions after total neglect for the last 11 years is not good policy.
Lets just ignore the rule of law and human rights, that’s worked out so well in the past.
Enjaybee at 199, let me assure you, from my own experience, the idiots will make a lot of noise, but they din’t make sense. And that’s the point.
199
Enjaybee
Maybe it says a lot about ninemsm devotees?
No 204
The fundamental injustice of Aborignal policy in the last 30 years was the election of Gough Whitlam, a prime minister who enshrined the welfare mentality into the indigenous populous. Thereafter, governments of both ilks have failed to correct that terrible plight on the indigenous community.
192 – There is a major problem with that. Valetines Day is the next day and there will be hundreds of thousands annoyed Girlfriends having to put with hung over guys as any public holiday day is just really an excuse to over drink in someone’s backyard.
Plus it should be a Friday or Monday for the long weekend.
203 GP – WHAT IS YOUR POINT??
You’ve said symbols are meaningless without action, yes, everyone agrees with you.
You’ve said the intervention should be given a chance – it’s been pointed out that the intervention is not going to be demolished quickly, will be given a year of operation to prove itself one way or another and reviewed.
You’ve said that the government needs to commit to practical action – it’s been pointed out that the government did so, as part of the ‘sorry’ speech.
So WTF are you rabbitting on about??
No 209
My point is that the apology should have never taken place. The Australian people have nothing for which to be ashamed. They were not responsible.
Saying it’s Gough’s fault ignores the 40 years plus of poor policy before that.
Gough was not responsible for the aboriginal massacre in 1928, or any of the ones before that. He was not responsible for the failure to recognise aboriginals as citizens prior to 1967. He was not responsible for the removal of children on racial grounds, a cause of many of the problems existing today.
Far from enshrining a welfare mentality, the action of giving aborigines control over their lands allowed SOME (not all, admittedly) to enter into business arrangements which has given them an ongoing revenue stream and financial independence.
Of course, in most cases the land we have given aborigines has been the bits we don’t want – too isolated, too dry, too infertile. We then wonder why they can’t make a living off it.
GP – read the apology. It is on behalf of the Parliament and government not individuals.
No 211
Zoom, your argument still ignores the central failure of government policy and that is the promotion of welfarism. Welfarism has destroyed Aboriginal communities beyond the damage of forcible removal.
No 212
That’s a furphy. The Parliament of Australia is the elected body representing the people of Australia.
Nobody said they should be… The Gov said they were srry for the things the Gov did in the past
Surley your not ashamed of what the Gov said/did today?…after all…it had nothing to do with you?
Hi all, only found this site today, im so pleased to find so many other like minded people, it gives me hope.
GP, 30 years ago (1978) Fraser was Priminister.
The fact that you are only prepared to go back 30 years shows you have little clue on what today was about.
The apology should never have taken place????
All those misguided aboriginal people today saying that they had waited their whole lives for this to happen, that it meant the beginning of healing for them, that it was the most important thing that had happened in their lives…
they should have asked you, Generic Person.
You obviously know so much more than they do about what matters to them.
[My point is that the apology should have never taken place. The Australian people have nothing for which to be ashamed. They were not responsible.]
The Australian People elected the members of parliament who passed the laws that infringed on the human rights of a group of people on the basis of race.
Why is it that Liberal hacks don’t believe in human rights anymore? I thought they were the party of freedom and liberty!?
GP: We are responsible for refusing to acknowledge the gross injustices done to our indigenous fellow Australians. We are responsible for failing to acknowledge the pain and grief they carry today. We are responsible for how we respond to the situation that confronts us, so starkly and bleakly today…
…and today we took responsibility.
And GP if you could not see the response in the eyes of all those present in Canberra and around the nation today – if you failed to grasp the depth of meaning it had to finally have their pain acknowledged – then you are truly and sadly, blind.
No 216
Human rights only count when it adequately fits your argument ShowsOn. Shall I list the egregious examples of child abuse, or will you give me another rant on the alleged disregard for human rights?
No 217
The state parliaments, whom are responsible for passing the assimilation legislation, have all apologised. Indeed, it wasn’t until 1967 that the Federal Government even gained a constitutional right to legislate for the indigenous community.
The Australian taxpayer has paid dearly for the deeds of the past. Must we mention the $20 billion squandered through ATSIC over the years. That was the “self-determination” that the indigenous community had been demanding, except that organisation, lead by Aborigines, simply propped up a corrupt Aboriginal industry and failed miserably in helping the Aborigines out of their appauling situations.
How much more acknowledgement do they want?
[Human rights only count when it adequately fits your argument ShowsOn]
HAHHAHAHAHAHAH yeah you’re really an expert on human rights mate.
Human rights are universal, that means they exist for everyone simply because all humans are born equal. The policies of past governments treated Aboriginal Australians as if they were sub-human as a way of justifying not extending them the rights that were afforded to European Australians.
The policy was WRONG, because it contravened the fundamental bases of our democracy – freedom and liberty.
Why is it that Liberal hacks tell us that families are the most important social organisation in society, but then they won’t admit that Aboriginal families were broken up as a matter of past Government policy?
That’s exactly what my wife suggested this evening. Perhaps a movement?
[The state parliaments, whom are responsible for passing the assimilation legislation, have all apologised. ]
You ignore the territory parliaments that the Federal government could’ve over-ruled. Today the Federal parliament effectively apologised for not over ruling the territory parliaments.
So if we apologise we are condoning child abuse?
Not in fact trying to understand that the decades and now centuries of mistreatment have resulted in a people who are traumatised, wounded, displaced, and culturally deprived.
Which results in all kinds of social, health and psychological problems.
And therefore requires solutions that encompass all of those human elements.
Including both an apology as well as practical and social support.
Or is that too sophisticated a rationale for you?
Territory parliaments didn’t exist in a self governing role until 1979 (NT) or 1989 (ACT). Self-Government for Territories is a recent development.
I have just seen the ABC news in Perth ( an hour ago) and thought the time devoted to airing the views of those who deny there is anything to apologize for was in the same vein as Nelsons apology; it lacked sensitivity to the victims plight. People who have been hurt don’t need to have the perpetrators excuses brought up at the time your saying sorry.
Is this a result of the ABC’s policy of being even handed? Will the ABC give equal time to the perpetrators of sexual abuse to put their side of the story and (as seems all to common) allow them to state that what they did didn’t really hurt the victim or at least that wasn’t their intention.
[So if we apologise we are condoning child abuse?]
Interesting logic hey? See how hard some people will try to MISUNDERSTAND what today was all about?
G.P. is hilarious, he is trying to do a law degree without understanding what the concept of human rights means.
‘They” ? It’s that convenient mental seperation that allows you to keep ‘them’ in their place… a kind of ‘responsibility apartheid’ that keeps the blame at arms length and enables you to avoid sharing the responsibility for at least acknowledging the pain ‘they’ feel. THEY, GP, are US. They are our fellow countrymen and today we stood together and shared the grief – and it meant so much to so many.
GP-
isn’t it time Janette tucked you into bed with a cup of cocoa?
Your work is done.
The rest of us have moved light years ahead of you. Together.
Generic Person. do something that has some meaning. Report back. Can’t help myself. Stupid person!
“Dangerous Says:
February 13th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
Ferny Grover Says:
February 13th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
I move that Australia Day be relocated from 26 Jan to 13 February. I’ve a feeling that this is the day we first came together as a nation.
That’s exactly what my wife suggested this evening. Perhaps a movement?”
……………………………………………
My first reaction to this when I saw the sentiment expressed on another blog was that it was a cute idea but would not grow legs.
Now I’m not so sure, I reckon it deserves to be treated seriously and given a good run.
I know that Australia Day on Jan. 26 holds no particular positive symbolic worth as far as I am concerned and many other people of my acquaintance.
This day would.
I would support some sort of movement at the very least just to get some public feedback, I suspect many would be surprised.
To play devil’s advocate for a moment, perhaps they want us to give the country back to them? Given it was taken illegally? Or perhaps we should pay the going rate for the bits of Australia we want to keep (downtown Sydney may be rather pricey, but if you want the harbour views you’re going to have to fork out)?
Perhaps we just need to acknowledge that we’re all beneficiaries of this theft?
As an aside though, how far back should one go with this? If this had happened 30-40 years ago, I would hope that we would give the country back and ‘go home’ (as should happen on the West Bank to the Palestinians, to open a completely different can of worms). 100 years? New Mexico for the Mexicans? 200 years?
February 13.
Australia day, with no connotations of an invasion .
And using the aboriginal flag as a symbol of this country’s unity as a nation.
GP,
I saw the looks of disbelief on aboriginal faces as thousands streamed onto the bridge, …… people cared! You could see their morale lifting as they joined in.
Child abuse is often a side-product to poverty and lack of social cohesion,and with a renewed pride, I hope that there will be less need to anaesthetise the emotional pain with grog, the great scourge.
As a mother,I wonder how I would sleep while my children were exposed through poor housing….no sense of safety. We too often lack the imagination to see the problem in order to find a solution. Militarisation(NT intervention) of what is a health and housing problem(IMHO) sent the wrong message.
[Perhaps we just need to acknowledge that we’re all beneficiaries of this theft?]
Surely the best thing we can do is end disadvantage. End the difference in life expectancy and other health and education differences.
The best thing that will come from Howard’s intervention is the fact he was willing to spend an estimated $2 billion for the first 12 months of the intervention. Howard’s attempt to win the election has effectively signed a blank cheque for future indigenous policy.
Of course money alone won’t fix the problems, but it will now be completely hypocritical for the Liberals to make an issue of any further investment in indigenous policy. In fact, the bipartisan commission announced today will effectively end discussion of how much is too much to spend on ending indigenous disadvantage.
Dismantling the morally bankrupt Howard legacy
One step at a time
Debunking Howard’s lies that we were not more of a terrorist threat due to our involvement in Iraq
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/plot-to-kill-1000-court/2008/02/13/1202760372047.html
No more non-core promises
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/no-more-noncore-promises-rudd/2008/02/13/1202760395108.html
[‘Referring to former prime minister John Howard’s description of core and non-core promises after the 1996 election, Mr Rudd said keeping commitments was the lifeblood of democracy.
“We ask ourselves why cynicism emerges in the Australian community about the operation of this place,” Mr Rudd told parliament.
“It goes to the practices that we have seen so often in the past whereby things were consigned to the dustbin of history once governments got past the day of the election itself.
“That period of core and non-core promises sits squarely in the mind and the recollection of the Australian people.”‘]
No 226
We’ve all acknowledged their pain very dearly. Billions of dollars later, the indigenous people are still no better off.
220
“Why is it that Liberal hacks tell us that families are the most important social organisation in society, but then they won’t admit that Aboriginal families were broken up as a matter of past Government policy?”
Because they are not White families. Which lies at the heart of this shameful period of our whole history since settlement: Racism.
236
GP its not the price of the gift that matters, is how much thought youve put into it
[We’ve all acknowledged their pain very dearly. Billions of dollars later, the indigenous people are still no better off.]
Money can’t be used to buy off human rights.
Stop embarrassing yourself.
February 13 – Australia Day?
Excellent idea!
And how about making a feature of our songs to celebrate? Would have loved to have had a repeat of Midnight Oils (a la Olympics) today.
A platform for our Australian talent.
Something that we can ALL sing along with,unite us ,despite our political leanings.
No 236
That is absolutely offensive and totally unsubstantiated.
Heaven forbid someone criticise indigenous policy or promote personal responsibility without being labelled a racist.
No 237
ATSIC administered those billions. Aborignal people self-determined the squandering of billions in taxpayer dollars. It was no cynical abolition of human rights, regardless of your diatribes.
[Heaven forbid someone criticise indigenous policy or promote personal responsibility without being labelled a racist.]
Stop completely confusing what the apology was for and about.
Having said that, I’m glad to hear you are holding the last ten years of indigenous policy in contempt.
What other word describes ploicies that were desigened to “assimilate” aboriginality out of existence, which was teh cornerstone for removing children from their families – not concerns for their welfare.
i say it again: Racism.
[It was no cynical abolition of human rights, regardless of your diatribes.]
Your conception of human rights is incoherent. Stop commenting on things you know nothing about.
[What other word describes ploicies that were desigened to “assimilate” aboriginality out of existence, which was teh cornerstone for removing children from their families – not concerns for their welfare.
i say it again: Racism.]
From Rudd’s speech:
“One of the most notorious examples of this approach was from the Northern Territory Protector of Natives, who stated:
Generally by the fifth and invariably by the sixth generation, all native characteristics of the Australian aborigine are eradicated. The problem of our half-castes—
to quote the Protector—
will quickly be eliminated by the complete disappearance of the black race, and the swift submergence of their progeny in the white …
The Western Australian Protector of Natives expressed not dissimilar views, expounding them at length in Canberra in 1937 at the first national conference on Indigenous affairs that brought together the Commonwealth and state protectors of natives. These are uncomfortable things to be brought out into the light. They are not pleasant. They are profoundly disturbing. But we must acknowledge these facts if we are to deal once and for all with the argument that the policy of generic forced separation was somehow well motivated, justified by its historical context and, as a result, unworthy of any apology today.”
No 241
I fully support the NT intervention. It is practical reconciliation delivering REAL not fanciful outcomes.