Stuck for a title for a new open thread, I thought I’d revive a beloved old brand name (royalties still owing to Adam Carr). You might like to discuss:
The Australian statsmeister George Megalogenis‘s rundown on Mal Brough’s semi-rural Queensland seat of Longman. Megalogenis also elaborates upon his earlier identification of single mothers as an important demographic. The top 30 list for this group includes Wakefield (SA, Liberal 0.7%), Cowper (NSW, Nationals 6.5%), Lindsay (NSW, Liberal 2.9%), Dobell (NSW, Liberal 4.8%), Solomon (NT, CLP 2.9%), Page (NSW, Nationals 5.5%), Robertson (NSW, Liberal 6.9%), Kingston (SA, Liberal 0.1%) and Bass (Tas, Liberal 2.7%). Well down the order are Bennelong (number 119) and Wentworth (number 139).
Bowman MP Andrew Laming and Moreton MP Gary Hardgrave getting tetchy about the six months taken by the Australian Federal Police and Commonwealth Director of Public Prosecutions to resolve whether charges will be laid against them over the printgate affair (also of interest to Bonner MP Ross Vasta). The Courier-Mail ran an editorial criticising the AFP’s tardiness on this front way back on June 19.
Still in Queensland, Possum Comitatus’s adventurous analysis of the safe Liberal (or is it?) Gold Coast seat of McPherson.
396 comments on “Idle Speculation: APEC edition”
[Romney has a liberal past which is trying to wriggle out of, and is a Mormon, which for the Evangelicals means heâ€™s not a real Christian.]
Who would’ve thought that the mormon would be the one that had only married once?
The media all seem to be assuming that once the election is called, Howard will suddenly miraculously jump back into the lead. What if they’re all wrong?
[The media all seem to be assuming that once the election is called, Howard will suddenly miraculously jump back into the lead. What if theyâ€™re all wrong?]
Then Howard loses by 50 seats.
There is no basis for saying “Thompson won’t get the nomination.” If he can beat Romney and Giuliani in the early primaries he will become the frontrunner and the Republicans will fall in behind him. Romney is not acceptable to the base. The issue is that if they nominate a candidate who the base won’t vote for, the whole ticket will go down with him. Even if they know they are going to lose the White House (and that’s not a foregone given that Clinton is widely hated), they need a candidate who can mobilise the base and save enough Senate and House seats to give them a reasonable chance of regaining Congress in 2010.
Bryan at ozpolitics is saying 3rd November.
Could be right, but if the Melbouren Cup is cancelled and the Doncaster he can go on the 3rd to avoid another rate rise on the 6th, and going before the Cup is cancelled is better than going the weekend after.
But if the Cup is cancelled will there still be a Cup holiday?
Howard Hater, i agree but perhaps John Edwards would be my first pick… if he was nominated in 2004 he would have won… attractive and intelligent that helps significantly.
[Bryan at ozpolitics is saying 3rd November.]
I don’t believe it, the fact it mentions the possibility of a challenge shoots the credibility of it for mine.
[But if the Cup is cancelled will there still be a Cup holiday?]
I would think so, that holiday is a piece of legislation, I doubt they would do a once off repeal of it.
Adam…Giuliani is a major threat to the Democrats because he puts blue states into play he’d the only Republican who can do this…he’s also consistently been double digits ahead of Thompson and Romney so i reckon they’ll stick with Rudy after all Republicans always back the front runner…
Condi was very entertaining on Lateline just goes to show you the Bush Administration is not filled with loonies like the liberal left would have you believe..
Howard will only go if the party says its time to go John and quite frankly anything is possible but seriously if they did that the ALP could go through all the media reports with Costello Turnbull and others saying they’ll be no change of leadership it would look very bad…
The Libs will stand or fall with Howard…he’s not a coward even Keating thinks he isnt.
US 2008 – I’ve always had this sneaky feeling that it’ll be Jeb Bush – I know how ridiculous and counterintuitive this is… but… Mr. Geo. Bush himself is about as ridiculous and counterintuitive as it gets. If the Democrats go with Mrs. Clinton they will lose.
[heâ€™s also consistently been double digits ahead of Thompson and Romney so i reckon theyâ€™ll stick with Rudy after all Republicans always back the front runner]
Sure, but in the GENERAL election, the religious right won’t support him, which will make it even easier for the Democrats to win.
[Condi was very entertaining on Lateline just goes to show you the Bush Administration is not filled with loonies like the liberal left would have you believe..]
Only because she has been forced to support policies that as an academic she opposed.
‘Condi was very entertaining ‘
For once we agree. I thought she was hilarious. I wonder if she actually believes any of that crap though?
I hope Bush and Howard both write autobiography’s they’ll be a good read though im sure you are all waiting on Rudd’s since you and he are so convinced he’s already Prime Minister…
Regarding leadership speculation. Although we can never be absolutely certain that Howard won’t step down after APEC, the problem for the government goes beyond issues to do with leadership. They basically need an extreme makeover.
In other words, a new salesman will not be enough. They also need a new product. This means further watering down WorkChoices, backing away from nuclear power, taking a firmer stance on climate change (e.g., setting targets), and promising to pull troops out of Iraq. And they will need to start making some loud noises on issues like housing, education, health, and cost of living.
All up, the government not only needs a new leader, they need to get back to the centre of the policy spectrum.
And frankly, I don’t think that they can do this while still projecting any ounce of credibility. After all the hysterical scare campaigns on IR, Iraq, and climate change, any drift on these issues towards Labor’s policies would smell of sheer hypocrisy. It will fully expose their fear-mongering for the baseless and idiotic propaganda that it has always been.
Their best bet would be to stick with Howard and hope that their fear campaigns will still resonate to some degree with the public. Fear is pretty much all they have now, but for fear to work, the fear-monger has to have at least some credibility. While Howard has much less of this than he used to, which is why many attempts at fear-mongering have failed this year, he still has some shred of credibility, or at least an appearance of conviction and consistency, with some sections of the populace.
In short, I think that Howard is the government’s only chance of avoiding an even worse defeat, and even this currently looks on course for a train wreck.
[ I hope Bush and Howard both write autobiographyâ€™s ]
Make sure you have your pencils ready to colour in the pictures when you read Bush’s.
Referencing posts from Max and others.
Howard, as the actual instigator of so called me too ism, copy catted every issue put forward by Labor. Take only a couple of examples. Climate Change. Broadband. Initially dismissed, but upon Labor gaining traction hey presto! Embraced and addressed. Magic, Possums!
Labor clearly posts its intentions on these and other issues if in office. The Govt is effectively neutered. It may make its case for the â€˜betterâ€™ policy, but what does the electorate think? Probably that at least under Labor something may actually happen.
Liberal is not even making the charge that Labor policies are unaffordable, hardly could when their own policy responses bring their own and hefty costs. Apart from that, the Government has and will demonstrate that money is no problem when it comes down to it.
Kevin Rudd and me too ism or same asm. The Haneef response was the most marked of what could be termed pale shadows. Well, yes, but one could see a mile off what Govt intended there. Result Rudd out of line of fire as fairness, process and outcome became foremost in the public mind.
The Dog Whistle seems since to have been left in the room. The Govt does not even go for the jugular as it used to.
Labor implicitly flagged the end of the Pacific solution, on cost/ benefit not fear. If Govt took them up on this, I did not hear it. I did hear Baxter was closed. Not of course, because it is a costly business. Excited over the Citizenship test, rather small crumbs.
â€˜Here, Kitty, Kittyâ€™ from Labor sounds more inviting these days.
Now, why would Labor keep providing opportunities for ‘trumping’? The imperative policies are there, Hospitals, Health and IR. Critical issues needing debate and consideration in the public arena before the campaign proper, which would not allow sufficient air.
Otherwise, the ‘lull’ is played by both parties. Trivia and mud slinging emanates from Govt. Kevinâ€™s escapade, Julia’s hair. Remind me if I missed out, what Govt initiated crucial national interest policy has appeared in say, the last eight weeks. Go back further, if you like.
Meanwhile, Labor works on single issues as the Govt hot wires them. Rudd uses something more like a Raise and Look at You strategy.
Max is in marginal Kingston. The proposed revamp of the Southern Expressway exemplifies the poker strategy. Howard made this an issue when it was probably not. Offered the electorate porky $$$$$$$s. Rudd, echoes of Tasmanian Forest last election, went in on that and offered a deal. Outcome, it will still happen, under Labor.
Howard is challenged especially in that he is not providing ‘big picture’ policy, out there primarily where a single issue response to Labor is needed. This tends to a perception that Howard is a follower, not a leader. Attempts thereafter to claim leadership look pretty lame.
Howard really only tried to recapture this ground with the Aspirational Nationalism stuff, which seems to have drifted over heads in general, but not before attracting criticism nay derision.
I do not recall Howard providing ‘big picture’ vision before the last election, relying instead on his record, fear/trust, interest rates, the economy, L Plate inexperience, politics of necessity such as politiciansâ€™ superannuation. Same again, anyone?
Since then, his resonating and real big picture thing since the last election is, WAIT FOR IT, Max, WORK CHOICES!
Finally, the scary and sleeper stuff under the prospect of a next Liberal Government. Whither Work Choices? Nuclear, quietly pocketed for the moment. Interest Rates? Infrastructure? What to do with those billions. Opinion has long been that the public is willing to sacrifice for the greater good. Liberal policy on health, hospitals, Medicare? Core promises eg Mersey Hospital. What unpleasant surprises are in mind but unmentioned. Climate change direction, still hedged, muddied by the nuclear issue, and about to become wobblier during APEC.
Sydney Declarations. Isnâ€™t that we have heard. Like to see The Lodge, Canberra back in the game. National capital, I think. Fewer flags, thanks.
Swapping to Costello? No, for reasons all said by others. Even so, the policies or lack thereof remain the problem. A complete makeover would have little chance of working in the precious time available. Would the electorate regard Costello as â€˜more experiencedâ€™ general policy wise, than Rudd. I suspect he would need to demonstrate his wider credentials, lights under bushels for years.
Another analogy, forgive me. Howard is fond of cricket. Should take in some Soccer. The winning goal happens close to the end. Will it be own goal or Rudd scoring at the last? Is the umpire up to it?
(Posting without reading since last night. I expect the thread has escaped to the wild. I am. Apologies if others have expressed similar thoughts).
Does anyone know if the ABC will be streaming their election night coverage with Kerry , Antony et al? I will be in deepest, dark south-west France and will miss all the election night parties. At least I can console myself (hopefully) with the Rugby World Cup.
September 5th, 2007 at 11:03 pm
There is no basis for saying â€œThompson wonâ€™t get the nomination.â€ ]
In the end Thompson may get the nom because the GOP are desperate to find somebody, anybody but I personally don’t think he will get it. I reckon he’s too “Hollywood” for a lot of the conservatives and his late entry into the race means the scrutiny on him has hardly begun.
In any case it’s not worth arguing about as it’s a moot point. Who ever wins the Nomination is riding a dead horse. It’s all but over for the GOP.
Richard Jones Says:
September 5th, 2007 at 8:56 pm
Enemy Combatant, are you a day trader? Buy in the morning, sell in the afternoon? Thereâ€™s a heap of cash to be made right now with volatile markets!
No, Richard, my interest is not especially of a pecuniary nature, though I might have a few bob on with the bagmen closer to E day.
H.S. Thompson’s sentiments transposed to Oz conditions gets close to articulating my deep and abiding interest :
“The genetically vicious nature of presidential campaigns in America is too obvious to argue with, but some people call it fun, and I am one of them.
Election Day — especially a presidential election — is always a wild and terrifying time for politics junkies, and I am one of those, too. We look forward to major election days like sex addicts look forward to orgies. We are slaves to it.”
Always enjoy your contributions……….. fellow traveller.
Yeah, I would have found Condi entertaining, if she werent in such a powerful position. Crazy RW conspiracy theorist was my overall impression, arguing that there is a new cold war that will last generations, lovely (say the military suppliers).
I turned her off, it was reciprocation.
[Does anyone know if the ABC will be streaming their election night coverage with Kerry , Antony et al? I will be in deepest, dark south-west France and will miss all the election night parties. At least I can console myself (hopefully) with the Rugby World Cup.]
NewsRadio would probably be your best bet.
It’s a dedicated radio coverage, not just the audio of the TV coverage.
The ABC was streaming its television coverage of the NSW election, so I think you can be pretty confident they’ll do the same with the federal election.
Bush – Howard
China – ALP
CHINA’S President Hu Jintao has singled out three former Australian Labor prime ministers for particular praise at a Sydney dinner marking 35 years of diplomatic relations between Australia and China.
How about North Sydney as the next seat, especially given Hockey Gilliard interview the other night.
This is a seat given a low profile and overlooked as a safe seat, yet Bailey would not leave his job at the ABC if he did not think he had a chance. Bailey is also very well educated and comes across well, when he said he was running the paper did a street survey and found equal for and against.
Hockey has been very poor in his defence of Work Choices, could be a sleeper seat.
Speaking of Shrek and Welfare to Work.
ph @ 373, the subtext is:
“China will be delighted to have cordial relations with an incoming Labor PM.”
This is a huge call in the current circumstances; a brilliant diplomatic back-hander to Bush, and an acknowledgement that none of Team Rodent will be Players within a few short weeks.
That story says more than 2 million Australians recieve welfare payments yet could be in the workforce. Is that what Hockey is saying.
Does that mean our true unemployment rate is much higher, a workforce of 14 million means one in seven are out of a job, 14%, is that right?
Just finished Mailer’s “Miama and the Siege of Chicago” about the 1968 Republican & Democrat conventions. In it he makes a number of comments about politics as property – who owns the property owns the party etc (remembering Mayor Daley’s machine owned Chicago at the time – nuph said!), and the election of Hubert Humphrey as the Democrat Presidential candidate, with Ed Muskie as VP. The description placed Humphrey as being able to exploit many small openings to win over delegates and states to his advantage through using a mixture of tactics (strong-arm, bullying, incentive, ideology, bribe etc), against Senator Eugene McCarthy’s more liberal but straight-laced campaign. I wonder if this applies now to the Republicans this time around? With Giuliani leading Thompson by a single point according to Rasmussen (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/daily_presidential_tracking_poll__1) it looks tight, but Giuliani is able to beat Clinton, Clinton is the Democrat front runner, but also able to beat Thompson, so it all looks rather messy.
IMHO, and with Mr Mailer’s thoughts in back of mind, I reckon The Republicans will pick Thompson.
Without interest rates and the economy to win points on (they have been partially neutralised by Rudd’s tactics) they sound rather shrill and empty. The only other major issue they have is Security and that may depend on how Bush/Howard APEC play out.
I wonder if China’s deliberate praising of Labor PMs of the past gives Rudd a stronger position with the USA & Bush. It appears that China will be willing to tease the US quite a lot with this. But I guess being the DH Bush is he will be more interested in trying to get Howard elected.
A strange sight the other day. . . at the top of Port Road, Adelaide (Labor hearland), a large billboard featuring a very large and ugly JWH visage. The slogan?. . . “Australian Families Have never had it so good!”. Funny enough it was on Port Road (encompassing seats of Hindmarsh and Port Adelaide), but the sentiment, or lack thereof it represents? I really believe the coalition are losing their collective marbles. It’s strange to see. BTW Nicole Cornes as a smokie in Boothby. . . don’t be fooled otherwise, she is a smart and so far hard working candidate, unlike. . . um, the local member whatever he’s name is. Please God, Mayo. . . I’ll never ask another promise, and Sturt. . . please! The mood i’m gathering here in SA is we don’t expect less than a landslide. And some of this coming from Liberal supporters, or at least the ones who i still discuss politics with (yes I know a few of ’em, nice people most).
Coming in late for one last go at this: the Republican base don’t operate on principles of expedience. To give them their due, they have strong beliefs and they act on them. They won’t nominate Giuliani or McCain just because they’re the best candidates to beat Clinton. They don’t think like that. They will have a true conservative, or no-one. They won’t accept Giuliani or McCain, or Romney either most of them, and if one of those is nominated they just won’t vote, thus dooming the whole Repub ticket, down to county sheriffs, to defeat. Thompson is the only candidate who is acceptable to the base, but not barking mad and not stupid like Bush. I actually think he’d make a good candidate, and even a tolerable president if we have to have a Republican.
Glen looks foward to Bush writing his memoirs. Don’t get your hopes up: Bush couldn’t write a Xmas card without Cheney to tell him what to say. He is really a genuinely stupid man, and will go down in history as the worst president since Warren G Harding, who at least had enough sense to die in office. It really is a terrible tragedy for those of us who are generally pro-US that eight years have been wasted and such damage done to the US’s reputation by this utter moron. Having him here displaying his vulgarity and stupidity all week is going to do Howard a lot of damage.
380# The Toob
I received a pamphlet of similar nature a couple of weeks ago. I initially thought it to be Lib stuff. But fine print showed it to be authorised by one T. Gartrell.
Thought it could be misread. Though the small version of JWH was a bit unattractive. The biggie must be more horrific.
Hope it doesn’t send the wrong message, though.
Need APEC access? Just be a Liberal candidate
Irfan Yusuf writes:
Sydney-siders have been told by the PM that the lockdown of their city is the result of nasty protesters who have been banned from the no-go zone. Yet while some protestors are forced to apply to the courts for permission, my old Young Liberal pal John Ruddick and his Aussies 4 ANZUS crew have been given the kind of access other protesters can only dream of.
John was featured on Lateline the other night. He was a right-wing Young Liberal who stood three times for the presidency of the NSW Young Liberals. He also worked (when he decided to turn up to work) as a staffer for former Federal Parramatta Liberal MP Ross Cameron. In fact, we were always surprised Ruddick managed to get that Cameron job in the first place.
Most Young Libs remember Ruddick as a hard-drinking chap who wasnâ€™t known to be an early riser. It was only when we found out heâ€™d received a glowing reference from the Mufti of the NSW Right David Clarke, that we understood why Cameron hired him.
Later, Ruddick went to at least one US rightwing junket arranged by Clarke in conjunction with a certain religious denomination led by a Korean chap. Apart from all this, Ruddick appeared on Stan Zemanekâ€™s show (in various states of inebriation) as a drunken right winger named “Banjo”. Ruddick was on the governmentâ€™s payroll at the time, and he told Crikey this morning he stopped appearing after Cameron ordered him to do so. Ruddock also ran for Senate preselection for the NSW Liberals in 1997 against Marise Payne and 14 other candidates.
On that occasion, Ruddick came equal 15th, receiving less than one vote. He also stood for New England in the 1998 Federal Election where he significantly improved his stature, coming third in the ballot. Sources tell me there were three candidates in that ballot. Ruddick admitted 12 months ago standing outside Kirribilli House holding a â€œJohn Howard forever, Peter Costello neverâ€ placard. He still hangs it on his bedroom window.
The Aussies 4 ANZUS website shows Ruddick holding a placard saying “The World Needs Great Men Like Dick Cheney”. Somehow I doubt Harry Whittington would agree. Ruddickâ€™s website gives 10 “intelligent reasons” for Aussies to thank America. Among them is “The Vietnam War”, something I recall him always supporting during his younger days. The US Constitution is also mentioned, though Ruddick wasnâ€™t enthusiastic when I asked about the possibility of having a US-style Bill of Rights in Australia.
Ruddick says that already 100 people have signed up for the newsletter, and a quarter-page advertisement is appearing in The Oz tomorrow.
“My goal is to have President Bush see us on the TV supporting him, even if itâ€™s just for two minutes. I donâ€™t want him thinking all Australians are against him.”
Interestingly enough, Ruddick acknowledged opinion polls that show most Australians oppose Bush and the Iraq war. His website says:
The Iraqis have formed a democratic government in the heart of the Middle East. If we have the guts to see Iraq through it will end up similar to … Egypt …
So Iraq should move from democracy to virtual one-party rule in which opposition activists are locked up. With that level of political sophistication, I doubt Iâ€™ll be signing up for the newsletter.
382# Crikey Whitey,
Just caught a quick glimpse out of the bus, in reposective it couldn’tve been serious, at least not on Port Road (opposite the brewery BTW, outside the Raptis fish joint). Still, some (like me) may intially miss the intent, still it’d take a lot to believe we’ve never had it so good. I certainly haven’t. And I certainly don’t need His Royal Smugness telling me otherwise. Still. how would Costello/Turnbull look on a similar billboard?
September 5th, 2007 at 10:41 pm
That is a very audacious call.
“Bush – Howard
China – ALP”
Rudd can speak to them without an interpreter so it will only get better in China’s opinion 😉
“Glen looks foward to Bush writing his memoirs. Donâ€™t get your hopes up: Bush couldnâ€™t write a Xmas card without Cheney to tell him what to say. He is really a genuinely stupid man, and will go down in history as the worst president since Warren G Harding, who at least had enough sense to die in office. It really is a terrible tragedy for those of us who are generally pro-US that eight years have been wasted and such damage done to the USâ€™s reputation by this utter moron. Having him here displaying his vulgarity and stupidity all week is going to do Howard a lot of damage.”
Adam, I want to commend you for being right on the mark here, having lived in the US for 43 of the last 46 years. Good on you :):):) [the only thing that might be wrong is that he may supercede Harding when all is said and done]
The Toob, those billboards are on main roads into Brisbane on both sides too. I’m sure they are all over the country.
Focus groups went wild with rage when the phrase was passed by them.
“Howard is completely out of touch”.
It could backfire though. I doubt if they will be up for long.
They will probably change half a dozen times between now and the election.
Romney is a clean skin and probably honest as most Mormons appear to be. Also he doesn’t use drugs of any sort. The paranoid Howard Hughes surrounded himself by Mormons as they were the only ones he could trust.
The fundamental Christians though would be aghast. They couldn’t vote for a President who won’t be “saved” with them.
My choice is Condi.
I always think that Harding is a little bit hard done by in those surveys. He was merely incompetent and tolerant of corruption (if not actively corrupt).
On the other hand the actions (or inactions) of Buchanan and Pierce actively stimluated the catastrophe of the Civil War.
So personally I would rank Bush as worse than Harding but possibly just above Buchanan.
Romney… is probably honest as most Mormons appear to be.
Are you sure Mormons are honest?
– thier claimed membership (as with most fundie outfits) includes anybody who has ever attended
– that even tho’ plural marriage is “prohibited and… the doctrine of the Church is now to be against the practice” there is plenty of evidence that the perversion is still tolerated.
– refuse to accept that the story as to how Smith received his “revalation” just does not have the ring of truth
Sorry if these comments are a bit behind the flow of the thread, but:
I’d agree that lefties once allowed their loathing of Howard to blind themselves to his political abilities, but I reckon that since 2001 and definitely since 2004, when Howard came from behind to win the election, very few would actually be in any doubt about Howard being a very skilled politician.
Regarding APEC, the rally will be almost as pointless as the conference itself. It could be of value, but the confusion of many different political issues along with the actual lack of understanding about APEC (like G20 before it) will drown out the political message of the protesters. It won’t be big enough to get that “wow that’s a really big rally” effect because of the intimidation involved, and a few protesters will provoke violence with the cops, probably through an organised violent action like the Arterial Bloc at G20, although I’m sure some random incident will probably spark off violence on both sides even if there is no organised violent activity. The riot cops have been sitting in Darling Harbour for a fortnight and are itchy for a fight and they’ll get it. And of course this will mean the debate over the violence will push APEC discussion away from it should be: why John Howard and Morris Iemma plonked APEC in the centre of Sydney’s biggest city, in a way that maximised inconvenience and cost, pretty much just so John Howard can get a picture with George at the Opera House before the election.
And while there’s potential that both the inconvenience and Bush’s endorsement of Howard yesterday may help Rudd, it will be blunted by the violence which will be the only thing people remember about the week.
Oh Rudd must have been looking foward to this lucheon.
Totally, and gracefully, upstaged Howard.
‘Rudd addresses Chinese President in fluent Mandarin’
Game set and match.
Who was Rudd trying to impress, Chinese nationals?
If he tries talking to me in Austalian, maybe I’d listen to him
So how long are they going to keep those merry pranksters, The Chaser Nine, prisoners of APEC? This is uber-authoritarian bullsh*t!!
What’s going on here, is it no longer acceptable in El Rodente’s Australia to take the mickey anymore? Shoot the messenger, jail the jesters, innocent children behind razor wire, Rau, Solon, Habib, Hicks, Haneef et al.
As Kath so eloquently put it, “Bloody Howard!!”
Just had a Bex, a cuppa and a good lie down. They’ve made conditional bail till court next month. This one’s going simmer along during the campaign. Cui bono?
[Enemy Combatant Says:
September 6th, 2007 at 8:55 pm
Just had a Bex, a cuppa and a good lie down. Theyâ€™ve made conditional bail till court next month. This oneâ€™s going simmer along during the campaign. Cui bono?]
Yep, a political masterstroke in a roundabout way by NSW Labor – if there is an election campaign when it goes to trial, the publicity will remind voters of the APEC folly and the lockdown and inconvenience.
Great Own Goal Howard 🙂