In the absence of anything else to report:
• Former Northern Territory Chief Minister Michael Gunner formally retired from parliament on Wednesday, having relinquished the leadership in May in the wake of a heart attack. In contrast to its counterparts in Western Australia, who have still not fired the starter’s gun on a by-election for North West Central, the government has already announced August 20 as the date for the by-election in his Darwin seat in Fannie Bay, which he retained by 9.6% at the 2020 election.
• Labor’s five members of the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters are Jagajaga MP Kate Thwaites, Hawke MP Sam Rae, Blair MP Shayne Neumann and South Australian Senators Karen Grogan and Marielle Smith, one of whom will be the committee’s chair. There were four opposition members and one from the Greens in the previous parliament, but I’m unclear as to how that will play out this time.
• The report of Operation Watts, the joint inquiry by Victoria’s Independent Broad-based Anti-Corruption Commission and Ombudsman into certain Labor state parliamentarians’ branch-stacking activities, offers a wealth of invaluable detail on the hard realities of the operation of modern political parties.
MelbourneMammoth
The Liberals and conservatives are still living off their hatred of the Keating government and that is why they are threatening to go rogue.
Absolutely scandalous! There’s no reason whatsoever to humiliate the young suspected of illicit drug possession. The boofhead of a police minister at the relevant time was Elliott, who responded to revelations that police strip-searched 122 girls by stating he would want officers to search his own children if “they were at risk of doing something wrong.”:
[‘According to a joint statement from legal representatives of the plaintiffs, “group members also allege that some people who were searched – including minors – were directed by police to lift or remove items of clothing, lift their breasts and genitals, or strip naked and squat and cough so officers could visually inspect body cavities. Women were ordered to remove sanitary products so they too could be inspected”.
The strip searches that group members were subjected to, the Statement of Claim notes, were allegedly “conducted in contravention of the Law Enforcement (Powers and Responsibilities) Act 2002 (NSW)”.
While the young people hope to be compensated for their ordeal, the class action also signals impetus for change. While the NSW Police force has over time mooted policy changes and internal education programmes, most people believe that strip searching is a very harmful police practice and should only be used in the most necessary cases and certainly not on young people.
The other problem is that for a young person confronted by armed officers ordering them to remove their clothing would be a difficult request to refuse, and a refusal can possibly be taken as a signal of having something to hide.
And yet, when young people consent to a strip search it does have consequences because if the search is subsequently found to have been conducted illegally, having given consent overrides that finding and makes the strip search legal.’]
https://www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au/blog/class-action-commenced-against-police-over-illegal-strip-searches/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=week-32
RE: The Voice and a fear campaign…
I think the trouble for the LNP if they whip up a scare campaign against The Voice is that it has been done once too often…..
1. Mabo Decision- Hewson called it a great day of shame for the nation
2. Wik- they are coming for your houses
3. Aboriginal Flag- we have one flag this will divide us
4. Welcome to Country- why are they so special?
The world didn’t end with any of these things-in time most people seem to have welcomed the resolution and symbolism involved.
So she did crawl out from under a rock!
Torcebearer
The logic if we could call it logic is that those things helped deliver the 1996 election result.
My second son is a GP, a profession chosen after becoming an engineer. Works 2.5 days a week in a medical practice that bulk-bills in the ACT. He sees 30-35 patients a day consistently and although he has to pay his medical insurance as fees that support the practice running costs, he does not need to work any more than that to live comfortably and his wife can be at home with the kids and work as an author.
Although he was raised in a rural community he feels no desire to work in a small rural practice, he knows that the problems facing doctors and their families in small communities are considerable. Often it is very hard to assimilate into established communities and locals can make it hard because they have little understanding of the GP’s background and those ‘from away’ are treated circumspectly.
It is not uncommon for social media to be used to ‘discuss’ doctors and I’ve personally seen dreadful treatment of doctors on these platforms.
I have personally taught 7 students from my town who are now doctors, not one is back in town as a working medico.
It’s difficult to get bank loans to set up practices with such low Medicare rebates, so the GP problem goes very deep!
Q: The logic if we could call it logic is that those things helped deliver the 1996 election result.
True- its 2022 now and as they say you cant fight yesterdays war, things have moved on.
Replying to those who have responded to my thoughts on US Senate, I well and truly pray that you are correct and I am wrong. Don’t have much faith in the future of liberal democracy in America at the moment.
Dog’s Brunch
Thanks, interesting points re GPs and especially those from rural backgrounds. The social media point also was worth noting.
Dog’s Brunch @ #506 Sunday, July 31st, 2022 – 4:24 pm
DB:
Will Flannery’s “Dr Glaucomflecken” take:
https://twitter.com/DGlaucomflecken/status/1553521982804615168
Emilius van der Lubben @ #507 Sunday, July 31st, 2022 – 4:09 pm
Even if the Democrats keep improving their polling AND they get a good turnout to defy the norm for midterms…. it may not be enough. The GOP are leaving no stone unturned – prepared to bypass democratic norms (and just plain democracy) to win.
I reckon the Democrats will hold the senate – they would want to considering how favourable the cycle is. But the USA needs them to hold the House as well and start winning back control of certain states before the GOP take full political control of the electoral systems there. Prayer may be all that is left for that.
Cronus says:
Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 4:47 pm
Dog’s Brunch
Thanks, interesting points re GPs and especially those from rural backgrounds. The social media point also was worth noting.
—————————————————
Could be an extension of the old rural axiom that you had to live in an area for 30 years to be accepted as a local.
DB Cooper @ #498 Sunday, July 31st, 2022 – 3:44 pm
Those comments are about what I would have predicted at this point (as in fact I did). However, probably best to just let the initial confected outrage die down a bit, let Linda Burney and other Indigenous MPs steer for a while (she seems to be pretty on message, unlike Albo) … and, most importantly … give Indigenous people a chance to digest the current proposal and then say what they want, if it is not this.
One thing worth pointing out (which was one of the comments) was that it is wrong to think this process has just started – it has been going on for many years now. The problem is that non-Indigenous Australians (including me) have been largely unaware of how far it has progressed. For which I guess we can also blame our crappy media.
Time to educate yourself (another one of the comments), and not just say “No, I refuse to do so” (another one of the comments).
Dog’s Brunch at 4.09 & 4.24 pm
Ye old folks who put Stonehenge up were real lifters, not gravy gurglers like Hanson.
Professor Mason Durie, a senior Maori health leader, once said that most health problems have many different social aspects, which all need attention for the problem to be resolved.
Mason graduated as a doctor and a surgeon from Otago in 1963, when students’ medical examination papers were sent to the UK to be assessed there. He trained as a psychiatrist in Canada, and in the past 30 years has written several important books on Maori health.
Apart from the disincentives to rural medical practice that you mention, imagine the impact on an elderly doctor who is past retirement age and recently faced a 40% rent increase on the only suitable building in a small town for his surgery.
And the landlord, who is a widely respected and generous volunteer in another context, feels no shame, because the society has not shunned greed.
Re Rural medicine replies…most of our GPs in my town are from overseas, they do a good job but I wonder how the countries they come from are doing. I saw a piece saying that Phillipines are feeling the effects of losing trained medical people to overseas countries.
On the plus side, there is a good story about the medical centre in Harden-Murrumburrah , just down the road. Gabriel Chan wrote about it in her book “Rusted On”.
Dog’s Brunch says:
Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 4:09 pm
Maybe ex hippy…
Re MelbourneMammoth @3:45.
The 1967 Referendum had bipartisan support. There was little opposition and I don’t think that there was even a formal “No” case. It was overwhelmingly carried.
There was a separate question on an unrelated topic – something called a “Nexus”. Nobody knew what it was so they voted it down.
Some aborigines voted in the first federal election in 1901. The franchise, “until parliament decided otherwise”, was the same as the franchise for the individual state’s lower house and aborigines were enfranchised in South Australia. The federal parliament did subsequently limit the franchise in various ways but these were all removed by 1963
A large amount of fiction has been built around the 1967 referendum but where it was important in terms of psephology was that by not counting aborigines in the census, it prevented states, particularly WA and Qld, with a high proportion of indigenous having a disproportionate number of seats for people who were not enfranchised. This had become moot by 1963.
It was analogous to the US constitution which directed that the census should count slaves as 60% of a person to reduce the over-representation of the slave states and completely “excluded Indians, not taxed”
Not too far from the truth.
https://twitter.com/DGlaucomflecken/status/1553521982804615168
Still remember dad running in looking for more stuff to knock out a draft house, no local vet. Draft horse in serious trouble.
30 years to become a local, try second generation.
2.5 days or 7 days a week, which would you choose?
Here’s a question
A paragraph of the current version of Section 128 – alteration of constitution:
until the qualification of electors of members of the House of Representatives becomes uniform throughout the Commonwealth, only one-half the electors voting for and against the proposed law shall be counted in any State in which adult suffrage prevails.
Why was this inserted?
The abolition of the House/senate Nexus was opposed by the DLP (obviously as it only ever had senate representation) while the two major parties supported.
At the time of its defeat the DLP saw it as one of their greatest triumphs.
How Jan6 Plot Emerged from Military Coup Plot:
https://youtu.be/t4MKYjr42Fo
Without it, states with adult suffrage (i.e. votes for women) would have had twice as much voting power in referendums than states with merely male suffrage.
A major factor in the GP crisis is the highly appropriate destruction of the closed shops that were run by the specialist colleges.
Frequently a career in general practice was forced by an inability to get into a specialist training scheme but the destruction of the closed shops and explosion in potential specialisation has reduced the numbers training in GP.
Changing attitudes to work/life balance have also had a significant effect
WB
Indeed, you wouldn’t want the girlie states that let women vote to influence the result
@ Jackol 1210pm
I appreciate your points regarding certain aspects of my post. Like you I am no constitutional lawyer. It would be interesting to have some legal commentary on both our posts.
In my and my daughters defence, my post tried to simplify the understanding of the role of referenda on our political system, as well as the substance of the Constitution. I appreciate the legal standing of the Constitution, and its complexities.
But for my daughters Junior ( Yr 10) level students, a simplified explanation of referenda with reference to the Constitution, is enough to to have a basic understanding of both these areas- without going into issues such as the role of Courts in interpreting the Constitution.
If the general public had a basic understanding of both these areas, then there would be fewer people falling for disingenuous commentary in the media and politics ( cf: Pauline Hanson) about third levels of Government and Indigenous Australians being given powers that other Australian citizens could not have.
Cheers.
https://www.pollbludger.net/2022/07/30/weekend-miscellany-open-thread/comment-page-11/#comment-3959299
The 1967 Parliament referendum failed for 3 reasons:
The No campaign hammered that is purpose was extra politicians.
It weakened the Senate, by almost certainly reducing the proportion of parliamentarians who were Senators almost certainly diluting its power in a joint sitting, meaning it was DOA in the 3 smaller states that the Senate increases the representation of. The 3 states would have been enough to kill it, although if nexus reform triggers diminishes the proportionate representation of any state in the Reps, the tripple majority requirement is triggered and every state has to vote yes.
The DLP, represented only in the elected by proportional representation Senate campaigned heavily against it, potentially causing a no majority in Victoria (the DLP`s strongest state, due to the split in the ALP) and nationally and almost certainly in Queensland (The DLP`s second strongest state, due to the Split in the ALP, which had a significantly higher yes vote). With the growth of minor parties across the political spectrum since 1967 and the introduction of proportional representation in 3 Legislative Councils and the switch from parliamentary suffrage to adult suffrage of the proportionally elected NSW Legislative Council, Nexus reform is unlikely to pass in any state these-days.
”until the qualification of electors of members of the House of Representatives becomes uniform throughout the Commonwealth, only one-half the electors voting for and against the proposed law shall be counted in any State in which adult suffrage prevails.”
That was probably added so that States that allowed women to vote didn’t get any advantage over those that don’t because they had twice as many potential voters.
Clenell…. is basically on side with the sky group but sometimes he either gets a bee in his bonnet about and issue… or common-sense break s through and he acts as a real journalist
A superb David Rowe contribution.
Confused messaging …
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2022/jul/31/its-not-wise-to-be-rushed-linda-burney-says-government-will-consult-extensively-on-indigenous-voice
Honestly, it doesn’t give you much faith in Labor’s ability to navigate this issue to a successful conclusion.
Dr John says:
Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 4:55 pm
Cronus says:
Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 4:47 pm
Dog’s Brunch
Thanks, interesting points re GPs and especially those from rural backgrounds. The social media point also was worth noting.
—————————————————
“Could be an extension of the old rural axiom that you had to live in an area for 30 years to be accepted as a local.”
(Chuckles) Yep, I’ve lived in QLD for 45 years and still I’m considered as a Mexican (southerner).
“However, Mr Albanese said, details about the legislation around the structure of the Voice would not be released until after the referendum.”
Thar She Blows!
“Former High Court chief justice Robert French has backed the draft changes to the Constitution that establish the Indigenous Voice to parliament, calling it a “sensible and straightforward proposal”.
In written comments to The Australian Financial Review, Mr French welcomed “the opportunity” the Voice created for better policy development, without usurping the authority of parliament.”
Welcome support for a commonsense proposal I’d say.
Paywalled
https://www.afr.com/politics/high-court-chief-justice-backs-sensible-voice-20220731-p5b60p
Cronus
Have you tried not wearing this jersey every day ? 🙂
Steelydan,
Yeah that’s going to be an issue. Though it’s probably the least worst way to fight for this change. honestly I think the government would be within it’s rights to just not fund the no campaign on this issue.
Imagine Albanese thinking Australians will vote for changing our constitution for something that they do not know what it will do.
I wonder when they start bringing out the at least we tried argument. Betcha it is already being formulated by the ALP brains trust.
“Welcome support for a commonsense proposal I’d say.”
Funny that since May there has been a feeling that the adults are back in charge. Doesn’t mean that the kiddies wont play up, but at least they aren’t wrecking the joint.
poroti says:
Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 6:54 pm
Cronus
Chuckles) Yep, I’ve lived in QLD for 45 years and still I’m considered as a Mexican (southerner).
“Have you tried not wearing this jersey every day ? ”
(Chuckles) From my experience this wouldn’t be at all welcome. It’s such a tribal issue (at least in my experience up here) that I simply make no mention whatsoever of State Of Origin and try to treat it as though it doesn’t exist. Ms Cronus however is a typically tribal QLDer and seems to both play and referee each match as though it were the last game on earth. I don’t even watch.
imacca says:
Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 6:59 pm
Funny that since May there has been a feeling that the adults are back in charge.
_____
Just say more competent people or not as crazy. I hate that expression.
This guy is not impressed with the Republic party.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhdInjJyIPs&ab_channel=CommonwealthClubofCalifornia
For those who wish to know how Coney Barrett ticks, reference thereof is drawn to “The New Yorker”, Feb. 14-21, 2022, pp. 34-47. I gave up after the fourth page, it being clear that she lied under oath (some might be kinder, calling it legal sophistry?) during her nomination hearing. Suffice to say that in 2006, she appended her name to an ad declaring that it “was time to put an end to the barbaric legacy of Roe v. Wade.” If she, Thomas, Alito, Gorsuch, and Kavanaugh wish to impose their religiosity on the US polity, which I fear for, they should stand for political office. It’s said that civilisations have a shelf-life of circa 340 years (see, for instance, Kemp).
poroti says:
Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 6:54 pm
Cronus
(Chuckles) Yep, I’ve lived in QLD for 45 years and still I’m considered as a Mexican (southerner).
Have you tried not wearing this jersey every day ?
——————————————-
Rural Welshmen also refer to Victorians as ‘mexican’s’ south of the Murray from experience.
I don’t believe Victorians have a word for those from NSW, at least not one that could be posted here. But in general we believe that other Australians are feral and barely clinging to civilization, always wearing shorts, no culture and very little in the way of trams.
From Guardian blog:
“Six injured after Ukrainian drone flies into Russian Black Sea fleet HQ, reports say”
“The black sea fleet’s press service said the drone appeared to be homemade and described the explosive device as “low-power”.”
Interesting. IF it was was “home made” i am thinking it may not have flown all the way from unoccupied parts of Ukraine to Sevastopol?
Wonder if was launched in Crimea and simply programmed to blow up in a fixed GPS location? Would explain why it didn’t target a ship (spectacular target, with lots of burnable explosive bits) in the naval base.
Not good news for the Russians anyway.
“I hate that expression.”
sadness. 🙂
nathsays:
Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 7:06 pm
I don’t believe Victorians have a word for those from NSW, at least not one that could be posted here. But in general we believe that other Australians are feral and barely clinging to civilization, always wearing shorts, no culture and very little in the way of trams.
——————————————————————————–
hahaha that’s a fair cop.
nath @ #546 Sunday, July 31st, 2022 – 7:06 pm
I am a proud Victoria-supremacist.
Sadly we’re going to see lots of white-supremacists use the ‘no detail’ as cover for voting ‘no’.
We’ll also see the corporate media milk the debate for all its worth with deliberately divisive commentary.
To be even more exclusive, those outside the Melbourne tram network are typically standing in hot gravel, slowly being roasted by the sun, smoking and swearing at each other.