The West Australian has a poll today from Painted Dog Research showing 34% out of 837 respondents from the state favour secession for Western Australia. However, the utility of this finding is limited by the report’s failure to offer any insight as to how many of the other 66% were actively opposed and how many uncommitted, if indeed the latter was provided as an option. The poll also finds “close to three-quarters” think the federal government has put the needs of the eastern states ahead of Western Australia during the pandemic. I wouldn’t normally consider such a poll front page news, but it’s past time for a new general discussion thread, so here it is.
There is also the following:
• Since Tuesday’s post from Adrian Beaumont on the extraordinary finding of a Reid Research poll of voting intention in New Zealand, the other regular pollster in the country, Colmar Brunton, has produced a somewhat more modest result: Labour 53%, National 32%, Greens 5%, ACT New Zealand 4.8% and New Zealand First 2%. It also finds Jacinda Ardern with a 54-20 lead over the new National leader, Judith Collins, as preferred prime minister. There’s an interesting discussion on polling in the country, the record of which is apparently very good, on Radio New Zealand’s The Detail program.
• As noted in my popular dedicated post on the subject, elections will be held today for two seats in Tasmania’s Legislative Council. One of these at least, for the Launceston region seat of Rosevears, includes both Liberal and Labor candidates, and might be seen as some sort of barometer for the state’s new-ish Premier, Peter Gutwein, who has been recording exceptionally strong poll ratings amid the COVID-19 crisis. Live coverage of the count will, as ever, commence here at 6pm.
steve davis says:
Sunday, August 2, 2020 at 4:27 pm
0That’s why Smoko lets the states decide their own lockdowns so later on he can absolve himself of any blame for what has happened.”
Pretty sure that you’ll find that is a Constitutional thing. Happy to be corrected if it isn’t.
No, no, no… that would be almost as egregious as Stuart Robert claiming privilege in regards to the Robodebt Inquiry. Or keeping proceedings of the COVID-19 Commission confidential. Or “On-Water” matters.
Perish the thought!
Lars Von Trier @ #699 Sunday, August 2nd, 2020 – 4:27 pm
Prove you are anything but the same divisive creature you have always been on this blog. Sure, you can change your monniker at will. But, you can’t seem to change your fixation with losing that pre-selection all those years ago.
When you stop being a pain, them I might consider a ceasefire. But, I’m not holding my breath.
“Someone not having an education doesn’t indicate a lack of intelligence”
No, it doesn’t, but try telling someone with an ‘education’ that.
Bucephalus ”Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t make them or you an idiot.”
That is true, of course. However, I thought that Mr Creighton’s reaction to the new Victorian restrictions, as quoted by Lizzie @3:35, was idiotic.
Zerlo, yes it does only take one but the majority of the people i know and work with have abided by the stage three restrictions and yes most are over 50. i have never liked generalisation which your posts seem to do.
lizzie @ #634 Sunday, August 2nd, 2020 – 3:37 pm
I think the new Victorian restrictions are well overdue and support these moves.
They do however raise some important questions for me personally.
I am a sole parent and carer of an autistic son.
We live in a small country town with only a small supermarket – no chemist, butcher etc.
Shopping is normally done in an outer suburb of Melbourne 20 km away.
The real issue is the chemist. The nearest one is 7.2 km distance in the next town!
My son is now bouncing of the walls at these new rules – hates me
for explaining their necessities. He as kept himself sane till now with his
main obsession(special subject of interest – you may relate to this Cat) working on his cars.
Now that he cannot buy parts there is hell to pay (and I’m doing the paying).
So when pulled over by police do I…
Sorry officer, I thought the Chemist WAS 5 km away.
Sorry officer, but my son needs his medication and there was no other option
5 km seems fair in the suburbs but what about small villages?
Still, if that’s all I have to worry about it’s not so bad – better that spreading this insidious virus any further.
nath and LvT,
You must have missed my recent bollocking of Nicholas for being a right tosser about Tara Reade then. 🙂
I. Will. Be. Me.
However, I must also say that, under MY tutelage nath isn’t quite as bad as he used to be. Here’s a song for him:
https://youtu.be/tjdf_w1JcSQ
It’s a long and winding road but you might get there one day. 🙂
Good for you c@t. Be the change you want to see as they say.
timbo
Best of luck in coping with the lockdown. Your problems are so much greater than mine. 🙂
Great song C@t. Can I recommend this version sung to McCartney and Obama:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q962WAO3Yos
I have noticed nath being more convivial lately, sadly LVT has yet to follow suit.
Maybe these photos of Albo at Matthew Talbot Lodge today will cheer them both up..
martini henry
Those that did the following:
1. Lied to police.
2. Did not wear masks in public places and refuse to leave (Hello Bunnings).
3. Change number plates to avoid being known as a Victorian.
4. Put out all the stops to avoid doing the right thing.
Re Timbo @4:37.
Lizzie @3:41: ” Ah, clarification: the nearest available supermarket.”
If Morrison and his cronies along with the corrupt pro coalition media got their way
1- No state or territory would be closed down ,which would mean
What happening in victoria would likely be replicated in every state and territory
Would Morrison resign or be forced to resign if he gotten his way and would the pro coalition media be forced to apologise and beheld to account
timbo @ #707 Sunday, August 2nd, 2020 – 4:37 pm
timbo,
I listened to the entirety of Dan Andrews press conference (and not because he is thinking woman’s crumpet! well, maybe a little bit 😉 ), and my parsing of the chemist situation would be that it would come under the rubric of ‘care giving’. That is, you are providing care for yourself by getting your medication. Or your son’s.
What I also understood was that there is discretion in the hands of the police and I could pretty well guarantee that your area officers would be well aware of the distance between your village and the chemist and so long as you went there and back promptly you would be okay.
On the other hand, it may also be the case that you may need to avail yourself of home delivery. Most chemists do that, as are a lot of businesses. So maybe that’s an option for your son and his car parts? Businesses want to sell stuff, so I’m pretty sure a phone call to his suppliers will sort something out to mutual benefit.
Honestly, I believe the police will have their hands full with knob heads, but if pulled over by police then a serious conversation usually sorts things out. As long as it’s a reasonable story. Maybe a phone call to the police tomorrow, after the new announcements have been made by Dan Andrews, in order to clarify your situation, wouldn’t go astray?
Hope I have provided food for thought. 🙂
sprocket_says:
Maybe these photos of Albo at Matthew Talbot Lodge today will cheer them both up..
___________
Sprocket. you are misreading our history. I was a supporter of Albo when you still had a poster of Shorten up on your wall. 🙂
timbo,
They said there were common sense exemptions such as what you described. If you’re supermarket is more than 5km away it’s allowed. Also exemptions for caring responsibilities.
During the last home schooling stint we let the parents of one student take their desk, pencils, visual aids etc so that the routine was as school-like as possible at home and that helped considerably. Very challenging times for people living with disabilities, their families and carers and wish you all the best.
Bugler: “Your comments often imply that that anyone who disagrees with you is a blind partisan which I think is a pretty unfair characterisation of much of the discussion here. ”
It’s not a question of people disagreeing with me. I haven’t put forward a strong view as to what happened in Victoria, other than suggesting that Andrews should take some responsibility for what went wrong, as he indeed has done.
What I do see as blind partisanship is the continual assertion on here that 1) the Federal Government is mostly to blame for what happened in Victoria; 2) the situation in NSW is just as bad if not worse; 3) and, who cares about Victoria, what about the Ruby Princess?
What’s the point of constantly posting this stuff? Very few people are going to be even slightly convinced, beyond the small coterie the rusted-on “I stand with Dan Andrews” desperadoes (or should we now say “I sit at home every evening with Daniel Andrews”?).
“You and others have made a number of borderline conspiratorial claims in relation to police and ADF involvement in hotel quarantine here and have notably failed to produce any evidence to support them (I think the best that has been stated is there are claims on talkback – how reputable). I think it’s pretty reasonable for to be skeptical in those circumstances.”
The Victorian Government chose not to use police in the hotels: there are rumours about why they made this decision. I heard one of these rumours in a private conversation: I posted it, but clearly stated it was a rumour. Hopefully we will learn the truth from the inquiry.
The Victorian Government’s refusal to have the ADF involved in enforcing quarantine is on the public record.
As I have suggested again and again, I reckon that a bureaucratic stuff-up lies at the heart of all of this. Which is not directly the fault of Dan Andrews, but, as per the values of the Westminster system, he does have to take some responsibility.
People are free to argue against that proposition as much as they wish. But, to those us who don’t see a particular need to defend the reputation of a Labor leader at all costs, it tends to all seem rather pointless. But to each their own, I guess.
We were able to cope with this in WA with our regional border closures (people were still able to shop in towns over their border if they didn’t have access to such things where they lived), so I’m sure you’ll be allowed to travel 7.2km to access medication and medical care.
The public needs to get it into their heads ,that Morrison and the media aren’t interested in the health of the everyday citizen of Australia
Morrison and his propaganda units are only interested in themselves and their liberal party donors , hence why the attack on the states/territory for the closing of the borders
Zerlo, and two idiot Queenslanders lied on their travel declaration and tried spreading the virus far and wide. Should i judge all of Queensland for the actions of a few morons.
meher baba
It does concern me that in Victoria (I can’t speak for other states) the situation has been so politicised that Lib supporters and other RWNJs may deliberately flaunt the rules to prove something or other – just like in US.
What Morrison and his cronies should have done as a good federal government
was to applaud and not attack the states/territory which closed their borders , to protect their citizens the only way there will be an healthy economy is if there are people alive to spend , work and other activities
MB writes something sensible at last:
In a nutshell!
Assantdj: “When you have a popular leader at a national level saying that the commonwealth health advice is that schools can open and there is no need for the slow reopening being advocated by the state, then what percentage of people do you think will elect to ignore the state leader.”
An extremely low percentage in 7 out of 8 states and territories, it would appear.
I think ScoMo and, in particular, the Vic Liberals, were wrong to put so much pressure on the Victorian Government to lift restrictions, given that the virus never appears to have been fully under control in that state at any stage.
But the decision ultimately belonged to the Andrews Government. As did the responsibility for enforcing quarantine in that state, and for tracing contacts and ensuring relevant people were tested.
I just won’t buy the argument that the Victorian Government doesn’t need to take any responsibility for what has gone wrong there.
And I have an important person who totally agrees with me about that, and his name happens to be Dan Andrews.
If the numbers start coming down as a result of the latest measures in Victoria and keep coming down, Dan Andrews will be hailed as the hero of the hour.
Nevertheless, after this and the bushfires I wouldn’t blame him if he decided it was time to change to some less stressful occupation and let someone else cop the next drama.
I’m sure there have been hundreds of mistakes as serious as, say, the staffing of hotel quarantine, made in the course of this pandemic. We know about a couple of them becasue they caused outbreaks. However, there are a number of Premiers and Chief Ministers out there simultaneously thanking their lucky stars that their mistakes didn’t blow up like Victoria and shit scared that a mistake already made or yet to me made is going to poleaxe their area of responsibility.
Zerlo did not lie on any travel declaration! That is a malicious and untruthful calumny!
Please withdraw your scandalous accusation.
c@t: ” listened to the entirety of Dan Andrews press conference (and not because he is thinking woman’s crumpet! well, maybe a little bit )”
Be careful, I got lambasted on this forum by frednk and others for suggesting that Dan was a macho sort of a bloke. According to them he’s a bit of a wuss, so you’d do well to direct your affections in other directions. Perhaps one of the many he-men produced by South Australian politics. 🙂
Thanks Cat. I did pickup that bit about care giving and the term “common sense”, also Police discretion. But you know – common sense is not always available these days, and police discretion is well… discretionary! We rarely see Police up this way anyway.
I’m not too worried, just thought I’d mention it – someone may have read something more concrete.
We’ve been very careful here, wearing masks for the last 2 months, only going to the supermarket etc. Zero cases in our area – still have been included in the recent lock down however.
Stay safe people, this is as serious as it gets for us privileged Australians.
Meher baba,
I don’t recall anyone claiming the federal Government is “mostly” to blame for the current crisis. I also don’t think anyone has seriously claimed that it’s worse in NSW, just that it has the potential to be. Definitely not my position. But to pretend that how federally regulated aged care facilities were managed has no influence on the current situation is ridiculous. Saying that the federal Government has a role to play is not the same as saying the state Government has no role.
Does anyone have any relevant info on the reactions in other countries that went into lockdown – such as Italy?
Again, not an accurate representation of what anyone is really arguing.
You might genuinely interpret it that way but it’s difficult to see how it is aiding discussion.
Fulvio, i worded that very badly indeed. In my defence i don’t know where Zerlo is from and fully apologize if he/she is an idiot bananabender.
meher baba @ #730 Sunday, August 2nd, 2020 – 5:04 pm
‘Tis true, Labor has the best men. Tom Koutsantonis is quite cute. As is Labor’s National Secretary, Paul Erickson. 🙂
ajm,
I think any level of celebration after the current outbreak is controlled would be well and truly premature. We might have a collective sigh of relief but we’d be far from out of the woods until a vaccine arrives.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/coronavirus-threat-rises-across-us-we-just-have-to-assume-the-monster-is-everywhere/2020/08/01/cdb505e0-d1d8-11ea-8c55-61e7fa5e82ab_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_virussweep-11am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans
Victoria should’ve been locked down weeks ago. Hopefully Victorians will adhere to the movement restrictions, keep themselves quarantined, and the state can finally get a grip on trying to control spread of infection.
Quite simply, many people do not understand how a contagious virus continues to survives.
Bugler. If you seriously believe that nobody on PB is suggesting that ScoMo is largely or even entirely to blame for the situation in Victoria then you mustn’t have been on here much lately.
I’d say that, on some days, every second post is making that argument. It’s become quite repetitive.
Meher baba
At the time that Morrison was making his comments , and his government was bribing private schools to open. The LNP in Victoria were using the media to blame Dan, Dictator Dan was trending. This was the period in Victoria when the community transmission was, unlike other states, still present. The reasons for Andrews not opening up as quickly as NSW and other states was clearly explained. The numbers are not low enough was explained at each press conference. Victoria never reached a run of zero days like the other states. At this point Morrison should have been saying, the science in Victoria is different to the other states, I support the premier. He didn’t, he said the commonwealth health advice is that we need to open up, we can’t stay under the Doona. We now know there were quarantine breeches but that doesn’t change the fact, Dan was trying to go slow and cautious and Morrison put his agenda above the needs of Victoria.
I will acknowledge the management in Victoria was not perfect, you need to acknowledge that Morrison stuffed up first, he didn’t close the country, he then stuffed up income support, 1 million plus workers with no support. He also mucked up by pushing to open an economy that had not flattened the curve, then he mucked up when he didn’t manage preemptive action to protect the elderly.
Dan Andrews has acknowledged his faults, what has Morrison apologised for, or even acknowledged was poorly done.
To put my views in another way… I think discussions of who is to blame is frankly stupid. We’re not in the situation in Victoria now because of actions that can be placed on a single person – it’s the cumulative sum of weaknesses at various government, bureaucratic, employer and community levels. Once it’s happened there’s no real point blaming anyone, if you want things to improve you deal with the situation you have, not what you’d like to have.
I think meher was right in that there are bureaucratic issues but I think it’s a leadership problem across the board of industry, Government and community. It’s where potential weaknesses are identified but not acted on until it they become a problem, a seeming inability to be proactive at any level.
So the ‘withdrawl’ from Palmer’s border opening case is a sneaky one, after the deed has been done…
sprocket:
Fulvio said exactly that first thing this morning. The damage has been done, so no need for Scotty and co to be tied to Palmer’s highly unpopular court moves.
The amusing thing with this position is that had the re-opening gone without a hitch, MB et al would be claiming vindication for the Morrison approach. Andrews would be characterized as a “dictator” on some kind of weird power trip. In fact this is exactly what WAS said.
Now that the re-opening has hit a brick wall, with exactly what was warned against becoming a reality – a resumption of lockdown at greater expense than if there had been no re-opening at all – it’s all “Dan the Negligent” and “Careless Andrews stuffs it up”.
Either position leaves Andrew’s in the shit, with Morrison looking the winner. It’s “Heads I win. Tails you lose”.
My feeling is that the punters aren’t buying it. Andrews is fundamentally trusted in Victoria. With opposition like O’Brien’s that’s not too hard, admittedly.
On the other hand, Morrison’s “popularity” is superficial. He’ll never recover from the bushfire debacle. Never. That kind of neglect is ultimately unforgivable. It might be put to one side for a few weeks or months, but just the slightest reversion to type by Morrison will revive it. Even he knows that. Withdrawing from the WA borders case is proof enough.
Andrews has, on both occasions – bushfires and pandemic – put in the work, and the public knows his heart is in the right place. They know that if mistakes have been made Andrews will own them. They don’t know this about Morrison. In fact they know the opposite.
Andrew’s is the Real Deal. Morrison is The Opportunist. In its gut, the public knows this. The exaggerated poll ratings of crisis time are, in the long term, chimeras. Smarmy bullshit in The Age and on Sky News won’t change the fact that Victoria looks to Andrew’s for leadership, warts and all, not Scotty From Marketing.
meher baba,
Maybe we interpret those comments differently. I have a similar view to commenters which repetitively claim Andrews is exclusively to blame, they’re tiresome and offer no new information on the situation. I can’t say I’ve seen any comments in the past month or so that denies the problems in hotel quarantine or weaknesses within the Victorian DHS – but while it is possible every case in Victoria extends from that it doesn’t explain why it’s so prevalent in the community because there are many more factors at play. Factors people who carp on about hotel quarantine are unwilling to address.
Perhaps it’s just my cognitive bias or that I skim past comments laden with personal abuse or that I interpret your criticisms as misrepresenting my opinion.
As I understand the Victorian situation
The chief medical officer ran a small centralised office of 12 people, 6 epidemiology
6 food standards
There have been consistent reports of underlying community transmission from at least early March when a symptomatic people who were not close contacts of travellers were not able to be tested,
Nursing home operators have been given $400 million to prepare for Covid, which they didn’t spend on additional staff. The surge team supplied by Aspen were just as disastrously untrained at St Basils as the staff they replaced
Without sick leave, casual workers who are generally low paid will continue to go to work.
The Serco call centre with the Services Australia contract at Mill Park, refused to stop hot desking, and when Covid outbreak hit that facility, Serco stood down the whole casual workforce
Would Victorians prefer the Liberals to be in charge. No
Bucephalus
The federal government’s mistakes
1) Not closing borders soon enough
2) Not enforcing airport medical checks on all arrivals and compulsory quarantine in a secure isolated location
3) Ruby Princess
4) Too eager to reopen the economy
The first three are Peter Dutton’s responsibility and he needs to be sacked because border security has become border joke.
You are right that state borders closures are up to the state government.
The simple fact is that no general, and no Premier, wins every battle, and even if they do there will always be casualties and deaths.
Andrew’s has done nothing that most other governments – worldwide – have not done. There’s little point trying to blame him personally (the calls for resignation, even dismissal are ludicrous).
Sure, if personal greed or corruption is found, then yes, take appropriate measures. But first Morrison has to answer for his shape-shifting and double-dealing, plus his outright disloyalty to his fellow National Cabinet member. And we know THAT won’t happen.