The latest Morgan face-to-face poll is unchanged from the previous fortnight’s result in every significant particular: Labor leads 54-46 on two-party preferred from primary votes of 43 per cent for Labor, 40 per cent for the Coalition and 10.5 per cent for the Greens. The poll encompasses two weekends’ worth of Roy Morgan’s routine face-to-face surveys, encompassing a sample of 1804.
confessions, I think he is referring to this
[
SECRETARY CLINTON: Well, I am aware of the difference between a headscarf and a burka and a hijab, and I think that there is a difference. I think that a headscarf is a very appropriate manifestation of a woman’s choice, so long as it is her choice, which is a premise of my answer. But I think we have to face the reality that in a society where there is a legitimate threat of terrorism, not being able to see one’s face, not being able to have some sense of communication in that way, is for many societies a challenge. So I understand the dilemma and I think it is a legitimate dilemma.
I know, for example, in Pakistan many of the men who are conducting suicide bombing missions arrive covered in a burka. And if you are a Pakistani police officer respectful of the women of your culture and that’s being abused and misused by the suicide terrorists, that causes a real dilemma.
So if you are looking at other countries that are understandably nervous about extremist activity, like France and other European countries, I think it’s a close question. I think it’s a hard question. If we were able to wheel the clock back several decades where we were not facing these security threats from packages put on airplanes or like what we saw in Mumbai and the rest, I’m not sure people would be so concerned about it. So that’s my answer.
]
http://www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2010/11/150516.htm
Beat me to it, confessions. (re: referendum) Although the gov need to tread carefully here. The bigots will happily use whatever wedge they can to make it go down in flames.
confessions
in the Age this morning
http://www.theage.com.au/national/burqa-ban-has-merit-says-clinton-20101107-17iyl.html
[”I know that in Pakistan, many of the men who are conducting suicide bombing missions arrive covered in a burqa,” Mrs Clinton said in response to a question from a young Muslim woman.
”If you’re a Pakistani police officer, respectful of the women of your culture and that’s being abused and misused by the suicide terrorists, that causes a real dilemma. So if you are looking at other countries that are understandably nervous about extremist activity, like France and other European countries, I think it’s a close question.”]
I can’t do these things fast enough, Cyril. 🙂
confessions – thanks for the link to HC’s forum yesterday. I missed it on telly.
madcyril: Thanks.
More on the recognition of indigenous people in the Oz constitution
[
PRIME Minister Julia Gillard says an expert panel will be set up to lead a national discussion on a referendum on recognising indigenous people in the Australian Constitution.
“The first peoples of our nation have a unique and special place in our nation,” Ms Gillard said in Melbourne today.
Ms Gillard said there was bipartisan support in the parliament for the Constitutional change.
“We have a once-in-50-year opportunity for our country,” she said.
The panel will report to Government by the end of 2011.
“I’m certain that if this referendum is not successful, there will not be another like it,” Ms Gillard said.
She said the expert panel would include indigenous and non-indigenous Australians, community leaders, constitutional experts and members of Parliament.
“It will lead a national discussion and broad consultation in 2011 to build consensus about the recognition of indigenous peoples in the Constitution,” Ms Gillard said.
The Prime Minister said the Government had left open the option of whether the referendum was held before or at the next federal election.
]
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/breaking-news/australian-prime-minister-gillard-announces-indigenous-referendum/story-fn3dxity-1225949396708
TSOP:
As I understand it the opposition supports indigenous recognition in the Constitution as well, so hopefully there won’t be as much hysteria from the extremists.
BH
[Dio – I think you have mixed up that with Labor’s seemingly inability to SELL its policies properly. Most Labor supporters are disappointed with that because there are actually so many good policy stories to tell.]
I added “perceived” to the comment later. Although Gary’s point is very true;
[Selling is not the solution. Doing and achieving is.]
Nothing succeeds like success. Runs on the board sell themselves. Most people are highly cynical about what the media and pollies tell them.
BH:
No worries. She was very good I thought. She has a way of speaking that is very easy to listen to and understand. Too few politicians these days have that skill.
[As I understand it the opposition supports indigenous recognition in the Constitution as well, so hopefully there won’t be as much hysteria from the extremists.]
Hope so.
I have very little faith in the wisdom of middle Australia, as of late.
Would the amendment be something like recognising that aboriginies were the first inhabitants 40,000 years ago and have an enduring relationship with the land?
Then Diog your problem is your definition of success – the standards you apply to labor seem to be marginally less rational and reasonable than those Abbott apply.
[Would the amendment be something like recognising that aboriginies were the first inhabitants 40,000 years ago and have an enduring relationship with the land?]
I presume so. I assume it’ll be carefully worded too, to avoid the legalistic scare argument that it may give “them” the power to take land away, or take tax dollars away from “average Australia”
Sorry, if this sounds ridiculous. It’s just good to look ahead and predict opposing arguments.
I found this in regards the Oppositions stance on the issue
[
THE Coalition has promised a referendum at the 2013 election on the wording of a Constitution preamble to recognise indigenous Australians.
The opposition also says it will dump Labor’s plan for an expert panel to build support for the constitutional recognition of indigenous people.
Labor promised on Sunday to establish the panel as discontent boiled over in Arnhem Land over the absence of indigenous policy from the election campaign
]
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/coalition-to-put-aboriginal-recognition-to-referendum/story-fn59niix-1225903189578
[The opposition also says it will dump Labor’s plan for an expert panel to build support for the constitutional recognition of indigenous people.]
There’s the opposition’s scare campaign. “Let the people decide rather than a mob of faceless unelected elites!”
This was Bob Brown’s reaction in the lead up to the election (from the same article)
[
Greens leader Bob Brown said he was stunned that the government was again putting it to another committee.
“We ought to be, with this election, voting yes or no to a constitutional recognition of indigenous Australians. Instead of that they are talking about an unnamed panel with an unspecified mission, and it’s pretty disgraceful that that commitment hasn’t been sorted out,” Senator Brown said.
]
[The opposition also says it will dump Labor’s plan for an expert panel to build support for the constitutional recognition of indigenous people.
There’s the opposition’s scare campaign. “Let the people decide rather than a mob of faceless unelected elites!”]
Once that panel is established let the opposition tell them that to their faces, including the aboriginals involved. Not a good look.
I bet Bob Brown will fall in behind it now.
It seems a lot of people believe the constitution can be amended at the snap of a finger and, if its intention is noble, will receive no opposition.
[Good grief, ABC radio with Jon Faine will have an hour with Howard after 11.00 am.]
[How much publicity can our public broadcaster give one man to flog his book?]
Howard had the hour before that on Classic FM with Margaret Throsby.
Gary, I was thinking the post election “new paradigm” may give Bob Brown a chance to back the move. We shall see
Pegasus
Posted Monday, November 8, 2010 at 10:07 am | Permalink
Confessions said:
Yep, as I suspected. Why should anyone take your view seriously? You are no better than Pegasus…..
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/2010/11/05/morgan-54-46-to-labor-3/comment-page-18/#comment-678012
“I understand why you would single me out. We have had a few exchanges in which I have challenged your unsubstantiated opinions. Unlike you, most of my posts contain links to evidence-based research or opinions from experts in the field. I understand that your inability to then refute my evidence with nothing but unsubstantiated opinion must be frustrating ”
you used th same false words criticising me , so you must paste them from a word doc
No surprise as you paste talking points direct from Greens web site , but when i challenged your (rather Greens web site) A-S stanse with quotes from that site showing in effect Greens position was a A-S open door polisy w/o full pre medical/security cheks , you then changed red heringly to abuse
(not that abuse concerns me , but is giveaway you’re back peddalling)
[Greens leader Bob Brown said he was stunned that the government was again putting it to another committee.]
Does Brown think that referendum support can simply be conjured out of thin air? I look forward to him putting his vote where his mouth is and refusing to back the government’s plans.
So what is the answer to the gotcha on Abbott re: bank interest rate rises above the reserve bank under the coalition?
Having had my first proper scrap with Frank (surely a rite of passage on PB), it is interesting to see the discussion turn to 2GB listeners as a barometer of the voters. This is exactly the sort of thinking that has gotten Labor into trouble. Yes, you need to work to change the attitudes of these voters on issues such as welfare and AS, I dont believe they represent the mainstream, otherwise the coalition would win the election 90/10 2PP.
TSOP you forgot youre talking about weather vane Abbott- he will happily change his stance on anything if it means opposing the government
From the ABC story:
[While Attorney-General Robert McClelland acknowledges securing a yes vote in a referendum is “not easy”, he says he takes heart from the 1967 referendum that gave Aboriginal people the vote.]
Oh I do hope the Attorney-General didn’t actually say the 1967 referendum gave ‘Aboriginal people the vote’ and it’s just incompetence by the story writer.
[Oh I do hope the Attorney-General didn’t actually say the 1967 referendum gave ‘Aboriginal people the vote’ and it’s just incompetence by the story writer.]
Thank god somebody else cringed at that error.
[Oh I do hope the Attorney-General didn’t actually say the 1967 referendum gave ‘Aboriginal people the vote’ and it’s just incompetence by the story writer.]
LOL I didn’t even notice that. It’s repeated at the SMH story, so obviously no error by writers.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/gillard-announces-indigenous-referendum-20101108-17jt7.html
TSOP 1064
[Would the amendment be something like recognising that aborigines were the first inhabitants 40,000 years ago and have an enduring relationship with the land?]
Having lived in NT I can tell you now that some people will oppose any reference to “40,000 years ago”, and not just the sort of people whom believe “the world in 6000 years old and men used to hunt dinosuars” types.
It’s sad, but as you said, one needs to anticipate what opponents will say.
MadC at 1057
[Ms Gillard said there was bipartisan support in the parliament for the Constitutional change.]
Well, I hope that Abbott is long gone by the end of 2011, but I will believe this when I see it
There is no way that there will be serious opposition to the constitutional amendment.
Cory Bernadi 1/2 truths by omission
“The political correctness (PC) police must be reeling. After months of personal attacks on me for daring to state my security concerns about the burqa, one of the left’s political pin-ups, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, has stated that banning the burqa has merit.”
Cory Bernadi is rite to that extent of Hillarys words Thats what i heard Hillary say , and furthermore on balance Hillary seemed to be to be saying she favoroured banning th Burka
But Bernadi is wRONg in total context of Hillary’s words because he is hypocriticolly selective with those Hillarys words , and he leaves out th racism fear inuendo BASIS of what Bernadi/Abbott say to scare oz public on Burka’s (a la A-S , same tactic)
So Hillarys comments in fact bear no resemblance in context to Bernadi/Abbott’s at all
In fact Hillary also said womens rites both to dress how they wish indiv and to there religous freedom was also vip counter anti Burka issue VS security worrys of identifying terorists who wear (males) Burka’s to hide there identity( th legit bank robber arguement against as well)
Hillary handled issue with respect for Muslums and for womens rites something Bernadi/Abbott do not even care about , but seemed (with genuine great reluctance) to be more on side of baning Burka on legit security grounds
(She is as good a seller of sensible politcal ideas with logics as I’ve seen)
confessions @1078,
I think the story is straight from AAP. So, I would be very sceptical as to the complete accuracy as to what was said. Sadly, AAP is guilty of very poor factual reporting at times, especially as it tends to flow word for word onto the online news sites.
Laocoon
Have you seen previous posts re Abbott interview on radio re interest rates?
Would you know if during the coalition govt, banks increased rates above RBA?
Doyley:
Good point. The story at the Oz has those words included as well.
The transcript will probably appear here at some point, so we can see exactly what was said.
victoria
One of the things that really concerns me, is how predictable my behaviour is!
Yes, I did see that, and yes I did start looking 🙂 First official interest rate rise of the Howard years was November 1999; havent had time to check into it (a bit more tedious than I thought). Will certainly let you know results when I get onto it
My suspicion is not, because this was an era of increased competition in housing Wizard, Aussie Rams etc, funded by the wholesale market; this market abruptly terminated in 2008
I quickly looked into the RBA stats. I think there was one or two very small discrepancies when the RBA put up the cash rates. However, there were some larger discrepancies when the RBA dropped rates, and a few time the banks did not drop them as far as the RBA did.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/11/08/3059655.htm?site=thedrum
Good overview of banks/non-banks by Alan Kohler, gives background to the politics.
victoria
Just found an easier source (rba stats). Alas, Abbott was correct.
Essential is out – 51-49 to the Tories.
Who says you can’t gain momentum whilst inert?
Greens back the Government on Indigenous recognition
[
Today’s move was quickly embraced by the Greens who held a press conference less than half an hour after the Prime Minister made her announcement.
“The Greens wholeheartedly welcome the government’s announcement today,” said Greens indigenous spokesperson Rachel Siewert.
“The Constitution is our most important legal document and we’re extremely pleased that our government is progressing the issue around recognition of our first Australians in the Constitution.
“I’m particularly pleased that this is implementing part of the agreement that we have with government.”
]
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/panel-to-pave-the-way-for-referendum-on-indigenous-recognition-in-constitution/story-fn59niix-1225949404856
Laocoon
Nothing wrong with being predictable. 🙂
Thanks. I really appreciate it.
Laocoon
Well as you stated, there was increased competition pre GFC, and post GFC the landscape changed dramatically.
More on the Essential poll
[
The Federal Coalition has taken the lead from Labor after months of deadlock in today’s Essential Report poll.
A 2-point rise in the Coalition’s primary vote to a recent high of 46%, at the expense of Labor, which has fallen to 39%, sees the Coalition take a 2PP lead of 51-49%, the first time it has led in nearly three years of Essential Report polling. The Greens remain at 8%.
]
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/thestump/
the essential thing is the banks my hip pocket the banks and those dash as centers
thats all who cares it really will all come out in the wash eventually
any one watch the Press Conf the American delegation,
the aust, press the American press, Heather Hewitt wanted to know wtte when the American where leaving Hillary said wtte to the contrary, ect.
and i did notice the American reporters actually say thank you.
[Selling is not the solution. Doing and achieving is.]
Labor have been doing and achieving for three years. I have confidence that they will continue to do so for the next three.
However, if they can’t get that message through to more of the voting population, and start doing it fairly soon, they won’t be getting the opportunity to do or achieve anything much for the following three apart from polishing the opposition benches.
Doing and achieving are a necessary but not sufficient condition for retaining the ability to continue to do so.
[victoria
Just found an easier source (rba stats). Alas, Abbott was correct.]
When looking at such things it is worth considering the frequency and size of rate rises by the RBA under the various governments, too. Perhaps the major banks under Howard weren’t finding it necessary to “go it alone” simply because the RBA was already doing the job for them pretty regularly!
RR
[ Would the amendment be something like recognising that aborigines were the first inhabitants 40,000 years ago and have an enduring relationship with the land?
Having lived in NT I can tell you now that some people will oppose any reference to “40,000 years ago”, and not just the sort of people whom believe “the world in 6000 years old and men used to hunt dinosuars” types.]
Perhaps just saying they were the first human inhabitants then.
[Perhaps just saying they were the first human inhabitants then.]
At the risk of annoying the Atlanteans and little green men.
New thread.