Analysis and discussion of elections and opinion polls in Australia
US election minus 48 days
A new thread for discussion of matters American, as the polls return to level pegging following the Republicans’ convention bounce.
Author: William Bowe
William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, has existed in one form or another since 2004, and is one of the most heavily trafficked websites on Australian politics.
View all posts by William Bowe
The US public are going to get very very angry soon-
Fury at $2.5bn bonus for Lehman’s New York staff
Up to 10,000 staff at the New York office of the bankrupt investment bank Lehman Brothers will share a bonus pool set aside for them that is worth $2.5bn (£1.4bn), Barclays Bank, which is buying the business, confirmed last night.
ALSO
Many of Lehman’s UK staff are particularly angry about the US payouts because it has emerged that in the days running up to the bankruptcy, some $8bn in cash was transferred out of the account of the bank’s European business into accounts at the New York head office. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/fury-at-25bn-bonus-for-lehmans-new-york-staff-937560.html
The Washington Post is keeping tabs on how long John McCain and Sarah Palin are maintaining their “media blackout,” and the days are starting to pile up:
As of this writing, it has been 39 days and 22 hours since Sen. John McCain last held a news conference (despite having promised to hold weekly Q&A sessions with the press if he’s elected). According to the Democrats, it’s been 24 days and 11 hours since his running mate, Sarah Palin, held one.
You would think this economic melt down should make for an easy Democratic victory as none of it is good for McCain and much of it directly against him…thus:
“Senator John McCain’s campaign manager was paid more than $30,000 a month for five years as president of an advocacy group set up by the mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to defend them against stricter regulations, current and former officials say.”
Apparently there is a new dispute emerging between Russia and America, this time is over the use of the old Soviet name USSR.
Russia wants to use it again to signal to the World of its new power with the inclusion many areas that are returning to mother Russia, such as Abkhazia and South Ossetia of Georgia; and Crimea of Ukraine.
Whereas America wants to use to signal to the World of its new pathetic economic status, fully supporting by Wall St Investment Bankers, as United States Socialist Republic.
This all ought indeed to be fatally damaging to any Republican presidential candidate. Hillary Clinton or any other credible Democrat candidate would be 20% ahead by now. In fact Obama is only marginally ahead, and is only 2% up in PA, a state he cannot afford to lose. He is behind in OH, FL and VA, states he ought to be carrying in a canter. The fact is that the American people don’t want to elect Obama as President, and if they do so, it will only be because the Bush Administration has damaged the Republican brand so badly that even McCain can’t overcome his negative legacy.
[Hillary Clinton or any other credible Democrat candidate would be 20% ahead by now]
Rubbish. She’d have the dirty laundry aired and the rabid Republicans out in force.
SNIP: Comment about other commenter deleted. Talk about politics, please – The Management.
Adam,
I believe it is more the electors are hesitant about Obama simply because they don’t know anything about him. This election is ripe for an all mighty scare campaign at the end. “Obama will confiscate your house!” “Obama doesn’t believe in the American Dream” etc.
That stuff McCain produced in his Convention accepting Speech is the sort of stuff that will resonate with the Americans. You know, fight for your country etc. It is corny but very effective.
That said, this election is far too close to call.
I agree that Hillary would be miles in front. Sadly, not to be this time round.
SNIP: Abusive comment deleted – The Management.
Has anyone got any links to polling in previous elections? Specifically state polling?
I had a squiz at the 04 count on electoral vote and saw that Kerry was ahead (!) at this stage according to that site. I find that fascinating cos he was rarely ahead in the national polling (that i’ve found).
Dario , all you’ve demonstrated is that you’re a sore supporter
SNIP: Whinge about moderation deleted. Move on, please – The Management.
GG
my #291 was based on intellectual facts of Obama’s extremist abortion , guns & death penalty policys which is embarassing to “politcally correct” peoples , as it exposes th shallowness of th whole elitist “politcally correct” movement
[Dario , all you’ve demonstrated is that you’re a sore supporter]
I’m not bagging Hillary Ron. You need to wake up to yourself.
Ron,
Your facts are irrefutable as always. However, not everyone is doing the careful analysis that you do, before they cast their votes. The reality is, despite his character failings, Obama is poised to win the election.
Whether you or I agree with that possibility is neither here nor there in the end.
[The reality is, despite his character failings, Obama is poised to win the election.]
The reality is, both candidates have failings as they always do. To think only one candidate does is why Ron makes such a fool of himself.
Yes GG , Pity people like Dario ar incapable of doing intellectual research , thats why they ar a lite weight intellectually & make a fools of themselves
Poor Ron. Deluded to the last with his mouth full of sour grapes.
I’m yet see this careful analaysis to which GG refers.
I also fail to see how Obama’s position and particularly his legislative record on abortion or gun control could be considered extremist. Unless you are Sarah Palin in disguise and for you he’s exterme in the other direction. Please enlighten me (with references).
While I don’t personally agree with Obama’s position on the death penaty, it could hardly be considered extreme, particularly in the American context.
But that’s the thing – you don’t have to agree with the candidate on every single issue in order to vote for them. In fact, it would be immensely strange if you did agree with everything they said.
What I really can’t stand are Hilary supporters who have been, and remain so viciously bitter that they would happily sentence America to (at least) 4 years of a Republican so indistinguishable from Bush – the man who did more damage to America than Nixon could have done in 12 terms.
GG
I have an awful lot of trouble refuting Ron’s facts. He is right on the human rights issues to a large extent, although I wouldn’t characterise any of Obama’s views as “extremist” and I’m really struggling to find any difference between him and Hillary on any of them.
Amnesty did a comparison of Obama and McCain’s views on human rights. There wasn’t that much difference, except for abortion where Obama is a standard Dem and McCain a standard Repug.
[I’m yet see this careful analaysis to which GG refers]
That’s because there it’s clouded by sour grapes as usual
[and I’m really struggling to find any difference between him and Hillary on any of them]
Yup
GG at 308: “I believe it is more the electors are hesitant about Obama simply because they don’t know anything about him.”
Well indeed. That’s what happens when you nominate a candidate of whom no-one outside Chicago had heard only six years ago, and whose legislative achievements are zero. We’re talking about an election for the most powerful executive position on earth here, and the Dems have put up a candidate with no qualifications at all to hold that position, other than a glib tongue, and about whom the voters know very little. The ONLY thing Obama has going for him is the label “Democrat,” and that might be enough, in the circumstances of this year, to get him up. But it might very well not be, and that will be nobody’s fault but the liberal Dem activists who dominated the early caucuses and who started the Obama hysteria, and their friends in the liberal media.
One of the main complaints is that there are still very few details of what the $700 billion rescue package is going to rescue, how it was calculated, and what the beneficiaries (banksand traders) have to pay in return. THis is far from a done deal.
Diogenes
Do you have a link to the Amnesty comparison? The Amnesty membership was very recently extremely divided over abortion rights etc (an awful lot of Christians in Amnesty) so I’m surprised that abortion would feature in something of this kind.
Socrates
I’m not surprised the economically liberal are criticising Paulson. They bloody well should be. An economist friend of mine (and a Keynesian no less) nearlly fainted dead away when he heard about this.
But of course I’m sure the Bush administration knows best. The government bailing out banks’ bad debts worked so well for Indonesia in 1997 after all.
I’m in the mood for some comment choppin’, so no more quarrelling please.
Quarrelling? Us?
Them, Adam.
Them?
GG
#315
I agree with your evaluation , quite measured & precise & he is a fluke beneficiary of th ‘its time’ syndrome’ following a foolish POTUS , wearing a Democrat cloths despite being non ‘left’ on key issues and th fluke timimg of a financial meltdown
Fluke because voters will pay out big time on Republicans in HoR & Senate electons…and STILL ar regsitering only a minor margin to phoney Obama
It is THESE 3 facts that galls rusted on obama supporters
……a possible Obama win in spite of Obama , 7 of his policys I’ve junked today , pretty empty endorsement
Ron and GG
Don’t disagree that there is some pretty impressive aid for Obama in the ‘historical trajectory’.
However, i think you are not giving enough credit to Obama’s organisation or ‘machine’ to use the cliche. I think this will result in a massive turnout for the democrats, of the kind that hasn’t been seen for some time.
With this in mind, i think this will show up only on election day and Obama will win a lot easier than most here suspect.
I have read every single post on this thread today, and at risk of overstepping the bounds, I cannot see how Ron has “junked” any of Obama’s policies.
Calling something “phony” does not equate to “junking” it.
Read todays posts only , thats inadequate intellectual research ecept for kids
First 4 phoney ‘left’ policys I’ve demonstrated for months and you’ve said zero , want to rebut them go ahead
Last three , your precous “politcally corect’ ones he’s trashed tell me what his policys ar …from his own mouth , not from his disengenuous geek web site designed for rusted on to repeat that nonsense
I don’t know why I’m bothering but you said:
“…7 of his policys I’ve junked today…”
Hence why only reading today’s posts to find evidence of you “junking” said policies would in fact equate to adequate “intellectual research”.
As for your claim to have junked 7 of Obama’s polciies today, you have most certainly done so such thing.
Further, for your information, I have been visiting this site for a very short and as such have not had the pleasure of reading your previous posts. Do me a favour and explain how you have “junked” Obama’s policies so convincingly.
“Last three , your precous “politcally corect’ ones he’s trashed tell me what his policys ar…”
In today’s posts you have described Obama’s policies on abortion, gun control and the death penalty as both “phony” and “extremist.” You have not once articulated what these policies are, or why you feel they could be fairly described as above. And now you are asking me to tell you what these policies are. Again, its reasonably safe to argue that you’ve failed to “junk” anything.
I will not be responding to your posts again until you are able to construct an actual argument that goes beyond personal attacks and conservative buzzwords. I am afraid to engage you until you are able to do so may end up being regarded as “playing the man, not the ball.”
However, I will not be sitting idly by while my personal integrity and intelligence into question.
Have a lovely evening.
Grant @ 324
I read it in the newsletter they send me. They didn’t necessarily say they preferred Obama’s position, they just commented that this was one major area of difference. They were very soft on McCains very insipid stances on torture and rendition which surprised me. McCain and Obama both wanted Gitmo closed but there were no timelines. Obama is pro-death penalty, although 2/3 of US states basically don’t believe in it.
” I have been visiting this site for a very short time and as such have not had the pleasure of reading your previous posts”
Then thats no excuse for not checking what people say & support , before foolishly jumping in with unsubstantiated claims Challenge is there on first 4 policys , rebut them…your problem & Obama suppoerters problem is is that they ar factual
As for th precious politcally correct” ones , some he never held if you’d checked instead of wrongly jumping in with your blind partisans supports , whilst others he junked immediately after winning Nomineeship..and liberal Press then tore strips off him for tricking them And its not just death penaly abortion & guns politcally corect policys he’s junked either
What you’ve got is a right of centre candidate , black liberal intellegentsia elitist (elitist love that) , non core ‘left’ policys ….BUT a non Republican & abit more moderate than Mcain on some policys
For some here thats enough and thats fine by me But for some here th gilligans rusted on dedazzled by oratory falsely believing he is th ‘left’ man of change such delusion is intellectual bankrupotcy in defiance of what his policys stand for from his mouth Then others here play a disengenous game
[ I didn’t make this up, found it on a website …… 😉 ]
The new Nigerian money-raising scam letter (Hint: it’s from Washington DC)
Dear American:
I need to ask you to support an urgent secret business relationship with a transfer of funds of great magnitude.
I am Ministry of the Treasury of the Republic of America. My country has had crisis that has caused the need for large transfer of funds of 800 billion dollars US. If you would assist me in this transfer, it would be most profitable to you. I am working with Mr. Phil Gram, lobbyist for UBS, who will be my replacement as Ministry of the Treasury in January. As a Senator, you may know him as the leader of the American banking deregulation movement in the 1990s. This transaction is 100% safe.
This is a matter of great urgency. We need a blank check. We need the funds as quickly as possible. We cannot directly transfer these funds in the names of our close friends because we are constantly under surveillance. My family lawyer advised me that I should look for a reliable and trustworthy person who will act as a next of kin so the funds can be transferred.
Please reply with all of your bank account, IRA and college fund account numbers and those of your children and grandchildren to wallstreetbailout@treasury.gov so that we may transfer your commission for this transaction. After I receive that information, I will respond with detailed information about safeguards that will be used to protect the funds.
Yours Faithfully,
Minister of Treasury Paulson
The media is a bit unimpressed with McCain-Palin at the moment. They are only allowed to photograph Palin but they can’t talk to her. This race is just getting silly now.
Thanks for a great laugh. Of course those who know of Gram and Paulson know that the laugh could soon be on the US taxpayer. This is why the democrats should go after McCain hard on his links to Gram. Paulson’s proposals are proof of the problem. McCain can’t criticise the bailout and keep Gram as his economics advisor.
I can’t help wondering if, to use the spin of the treasury looters, Main Street shouldn’t just call Wall Street’s bluff. Who knows if the world’s finances will really collapse without the bailout? A few might collapse, but maybe thats not so bad. Some people will go to jail, and probably should. But will banking as we know it stop? Or just Wall Street banking? Our banks will soon get capital from China if they have to. If its really as bad as claims, and the survival of the istitutions is at stake, why won’t they release the details of their position (debts etc)? I smell a rat.
New polls:
Obama leads in Colorado, 51%, to 45% for McCain
The West could be fertile ground for Obama, in Colorado/New Mexico/Nevada – because of the Hispanic vote!
Also:
The Democrats are now ahead in the North Carolina senate race, Elizabeth Dole is in danger of getting tossed out!
And, the Democrat candidate even has a shot of winning the senatorial contest in Kentucky, believe it or not!
Its not only Hispanics that will vote for Obama in the mid-west and west. The sub prime crisis has been devastating in formerly fast growing cities like Denver, Las Vegas and Phoenix.
Diogenes
Yes and rightly so. The suggestion that such sweeping powers should be placed in the hands of one man (Paulson) with obvious past ties to some of the guilty parties (he was an investment banker) is very questionable. The NY Times editorial is quite caustic too.
[The media is a bit unimpressed with McCain-Palin at the moment. They are only allowed to photograph Palin but they can’t talk to her. This race is just getting silly now.]
They should just stop covering her at all unless they allow access. McCain would be behind by 10 without Palin’s picture popping up everywhere.
With just over 40 days to go its looking to me to be a similiar close contest that was between Carter and Ford in 1976. However this time the Republican candidate John McCain will prevail over his Democrat rival. The US economy is shaky and Heartland America is looking for an experienced man at the helm to rebuild confidence and a sense of security. Heartland America as opposed to the trendy Liberal elites on the East and West coasts are also prepared to stand the course in Iraq and have a hardline view of Iranian intention and now with Russia flexing its muscles they want a Commander in Chief that knows how to project American power in a holistic approach that protects their homeland.
lol, which Republican blog did you cut & paste that from Paul?
I just wrote it myself but if its similar to Republican messages thats fine because it makes perfect sense.
With just over 40 days to go its looking to a close contest. However this time the Republican candidate John McCain is suffering a severe credibility crisis with his running mate Sarah Palin looking increasingly shallow. The US economy is shaky and Heartland America is looking for a man at the helm to rebuild confidence and a sense of security by removing the old system of unregulated greed that has grown up under a Republican administration. Heartland America as opposed to the systemic greed and corruption that has bought the financial system to its knees and, exhausted over the never ending presence in Iraq, desperate for a candidate that would wind up this operation and bring systemic moral change to Wall street. The Iranian and Russia issues require new thinking and a change from the old approach of unthinking aggression and threat. Americans want a Commander in Chief that is willing to first solve problems without killing our own in senseless unwinable battles and willing to utilise a multi-lateral approach to world problems. More and more the American people are seeing that all their current problems stem from old Republican philosophy. I can dross with the best. Couldn’t find space to put Kevin Rudd in there.
Paul, i think the only problem with what your saying is that all the polling suggests that
a) the economy is the biggest issue;
b) the majority blame the republicans for the mess; and
c) the majority of those polled say they trust the dems to fix it more than they do the repubs.
Reading some republican spin, I can’t help being reminded of the rambling of elderly former Queensland premier Joh Bjelke Petersen.
Joh: “You mark my lambs… just you wait and see…. never you mind about that”
Paul Nash: “Heartland America is looking for an experienced man at the helm to rebuild confidence and a sense of security… prepared to stand the course…that protects their homeland”.
McCain: “”The issue of economics is something that I’ve really never understood as well as I should. I understand the basics, the fundamentals, the vision, all that kind of stuff.”
Of course, in the end we found Joh was corrupt too.
The US public are going to get very very angry soon-
Fury at $2.5bn bonus for Lehman’s New York staff
Up to 10,000 staff at the New York office of the bankrupt investment bank Lehman Brothers will share a bonus pool set aside for them that is worth $2.5bn (£1.4bn), Barclays Bank, which is buying the business, confirmed last night.
ALSO
Many of Lehman’s UK staff are particularly angry about the US payouts because it has emerged that in the days running up to the bankruptcy, some $8bn in cash was transferred out of the account of the bank’s European business into accounts at the New York head office.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/fury-at-25bn-bonus-for-lehmans-new-york-staff-937560.html
The Washington Post is keeping tabs on how long John McCain and Sarah Palin are maintaining their “media blackout,” and the days are starting to pile up:
As of this writing, it has been 39 days and 22 hours since Sen. John McCain last held a news conference (despite having promised to hold weekly Q&A sessions with the press if he’s elected). According to the Democrats, it’s been 24 days and 11 hours since his running mate, Sarah Palin, held one.
You would think this economic melt down should make for an easy Democratic victory as none of it is good for McCain and much of it directly against him…thus:
“Senator John McCain’s campaign manager was paid more than $30,000 a month for five years as president of an advocacy group set up by the mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to defend them against stricter regulations, current and former officials say.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/22/us/politics/22mccain.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&ref=politics&pagewanted=print&adxnnlx=1222162177-iAKFc53jd2dormvao/xv+g
Apparently there is a new dispute emerging between Russia and America, this time is over the use of the old Soviet name USSR.
Russia wants to use it again to signal to the World of its new power with the inclusion many areas that are returning to mother Russia, such as Abkhazia and South Ossetia of Georgia; and Crimea of Ukraine.
Whereas America wants to use to signal to the World of its new pathetic economic status, fully supporting by Wall St Investment Bankers, as United States Socialist Republic.
This all ought indeed to be fatally damaging to any Republican presidential candidate. Hillary Clinton or any other credible Democrat candidate would be 20% ahead by now. In fact Obama is only marginally ahead, and is only 2% up in PA, a state he cannot afford to lose. He is behind in OH, FL and VA, states he ought to be carrying in a canter. The fact is that the American people don’t want to elect Obama as President, and if they do so, it will only be because the Bush Administration has damaged the Republican brand so badly that even McCain can’t overcome his negative legacy.
[Hillary Clinton or any other credible Democrat candidate would be 20% ahead by now]
Rubbish. She’d have the dirty laundry aired and the rabid Republicans out in force.
SNIP: Comment about other commenter deleted. Talk about politics, please – The Management.
Adam,
I believe it is more the electors are hesitant about Obama simply because they don’t know anything about him. This election is ripe for an all mighty scare campaign at the end. “Obama will confiscate your house!” “Obama doesn’t believe in the American Dream” etc.
That stuff McCain produced in his Convention accepting Speech is the sort of stuff that will resonate with the Americans. You know, fight for your country etc. It is corny but very effective.
That said, this election is far too close to call.
I agree that Hillary would be miles in front. Sadly, not to be this time round.
SNIP: Abusive comment deleted – The Management.
Has anyone got any links to polling in previous elections? Specifically state polling?
I had a squiz at the 04 count on electoral vote and saw that Kerry was ahead (!) at this stage according to that site. I find that fascinating cos he was rarely ahead in the national polling (that i’ve found).
Dario , all you’ve demonstrated is that you’re a sore supporter
SNIP: Whinge about moderation deleted. Move on, please – The Management.
GG
my #291 was based on intellectual facts of Obama’s extremist abortion , guns & death penalty policys which is embarassing to “politcally correct” peoples , as it exposes th shallowness of th whole elitist “politcally correct” movement
[Dario , all you’ve demonstrated is that you’re a sore supporter]
I’m not bagging Hillary Ron. You need to wake up to yourself.
Ron,
Your facts are irrefutable as always. However, not everyone is doing the careful analysis that you do, before they cast their votes. The reality is, despite his character failings, Obama is poised to win the election.
Whether you or I agree with that possibility is neither here nor there in the end.
[The reality is, despite his character failings, Obama is poised to win the election.]
The reality is, both candidates have failings as they always do. To think only one candidate does is why Ron makes such a fool of himself.
Yes GG , Pity people like Dario ar incapable of doing intellectual research , thats why they ar a lite weight intellectually & make a fools of themselves
Poor Ron. Deluded to the last with his mouth full of sour grapes.
I’m yet see this careful analaysis to which GG refers.
I also fail to see how Obama’s position and particularly his legislative record on abortion or gun control could be considered extremist. Unless you are Sarah Palin in disguise and for you he’s exterme in the other direction. Please enlighten me (with references).
While I don’t personally agree with Obama’s position on the death penaty, it could hardly be considered extreme, particularly in the American context.
But that’s the thing – you don’t have to agree with the candidate on every single issue in order to vote for them. In fact, it would be immensely strange if you did agree with everything they said.
What I really can’t stand are Hilary supporters who have been, and remain so viciously bitter that they would happily sentence America to (at least) 4 years of a Republican so indistinguishable from Bush – the man who did more damage to America than Nixon could have done in 12 terms.
GG
I have an awful lot of trouble refuting Ron’s facts. He is right on the human rights issues to a large extent, although I wouldn’t characterise any of Obama’s views as “extremist” and I’m really struggling to find any difference between him and Hillary on any of them.
Amnesty did a comparison of Obama and McCain’s views on human rights. There wasn’t that much difference, except for abortion where Obama is a standard Dem and McCain a standard Repug.
[I’m yet see this careful analaysis to which GG refers]
That’s because there it’s clouded by sour grapes as usual
[and I’m really struggling to find any difference between him and Hillary on any of them]
Yup
GG at 308: “I believe it is more the electors are hesitant about Obama simply because they don’t know anything about him.”
Well indeed. That’s what happens when you nominate a candidate of whom no-one outside Chicago had heard only six years ago, and whose legislative achievements are zero. We’re talking about an election for the most powerful executive position on earth here, and the Dems have put up a candidate with no qualifications at all to hold that position, other than a glib tongue, and about whom the voters know very little. The ONLY thing Obama has going for him is the label “Democrat,” and that might be enough, in the circumstances of this year, to get him up. But it might very well not be, and that will be nobody’s fault but the liberal Dem activists who dominated the early caucuses and who started the Obama hysteria, and their friends in the liberal media.
TP 301
Its not only US taxpayes who are angry over the crisis and proposed solutions. Paulson is coping a lot of criticism, even from former economic advisors to Reagan. See this summary
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/23/business/23skeptics.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin
One of the main complaints is that there are still very few details of what the $700 billion rescue package is going to rescue, how it was calculated, and what the beneficiaries (banksand traders) have to pay in return. THis is far from a done deal.
Diogenes
Do you have a link to the Amnesty comparison? The Amnesty membership was very recently extremely divided over abortion rights etc (an awful lot of Christians in Amnesty) so I’m surprised that abortion would feature in something of this kind.
Socrates
I’m not surprised the economically liberal are criticising Paulson. They bloody well should be. An economist friend of mine (and a Keynesian no less) nearlly fainted dead away when he heard about this.
But of course I’m sure the Bush administration knows best. The government bailing out banks’ bad debts worked so well for Indonesia in 1997 after all.
I’m in the mood for some comment choppin’, so no more quarrelling please.
Quarrelling? Us?
Them, Adam.
Them?
GG
#315
I agree with your evaluation , quite measured & precise & he is a fluke beneficiary of th ‘its time’ syndrome’ following a foolish POTUS , wearing a Democrat cloths despite being non ‘left’ on key issues and th fluke timimg of a financial meltdown
Fluke because voters will pay out big time on Republicans in HoR & Senate electons…and STILL ar regsitering only a minor margin to phoney Obama
It is THESE 3 facts that galls rusted on obama supporters
……a possible Obama win in spite of Obama , 7 of his policys I’ve junked today , pretty empty endorsement
Ron and GG
Don’t disagree that there is some pretty impressive aid for Obama in the ‘historical trajectory’.
However, i think you are not giving enough credit to Obama’s organisation or ‘machine’ to use the cliche. I think this will result in a massive turnout for the democrats, of the kind that hasn’t been seen for some time.
With this in mind, i think this will show up only on election day and Obama will win a lot easier than most here suspect.
I have read every single post on this thread today, and at risk of overstepping the bounds, I cannot see how Ron has “junked” any of Obama’s policies.
Calling something “phony” does not equate to “junking” it.
Read todays posts only , thats inadequate intellectual research ecept for kids
First 4 phoney ‘left’ policys I’ve demonstrated for months and you’ve said zero , want to rebut them go ahead
Last three , your precous “politcally corect’ ones he’s trashed tell me what his policys ar …from his own mouth , not from his disengenuous geek web site designed for rusted on to repeat that nonsense
I don’t know why I’m bothering but you said:
“…7 of his policys I’ve junked today…”
Hence why only reading today’s posts to find evidence of you “junking” said policies would in fact equate to adequate “intellectual research”.
As for your claim to have junked 7 of Obama’s polciies today, you have most certainly done so such thing.
Further, for your information, I have been visiting this site for a very short and as such have not had the pleasure of reading your previous posts. Do me a favour and explain how you have “junked” Obama’s policies so convincingly.
“Last three , your precous “politcally corect’ ones he’s trashed tell me what his policys ar…”
In today’s posts you have described Obama’s policies on abortion, gun control and the death penalty as both “phony” and “extremist.” You have not once articulated what these policies are, or why you feel they could be fairly described as above. And now you are asking me to tell you what these policies are. Again, its reasonably safe to argue that you’ve failed to “junk” anything.
I will not be responding to your posts again until you are able to construct an actual argument that goes beyond personal attacks and conservative buzzwords. I am afraid to engage you until you are able to do so may end up being regarded as “playing the man, not the ball.”
However, I will not be sitting idly by while my personal integrity and intelligence into question.
Have a lovely evening.
Grant @ 324
I read it in the newsletter they send me. They didn’t necessarily say they preferred Obama’s position, they just commented that this was one major area of difference. They were very soft on McCains very insipid stances on torture and rendition which surprised me. McCain and Obama both wanted Gitmo closed but there were no timelines. Obama is pro-death penalty, although 2/3 of US states basically don’t believe in it.
” I have been visiting this site for a very short time and as such have not had the pleasure of reading your previous posts”
Then thats no excuse for not checking what people say & support , before foolishly jumping in with unsubstantiated claims Challenge is there on first 4 policys , rebut them…your problem & Obama suppoerters problem is is that they ar factual
As for th precious politcally correct” ones , some he never held if you’d checked instead of wrongly jumping in with your blind partisans supports , whilst others he junked immediately after winning Nomineeship..and liberal Press then tore strips off him for tricking them And its not just death penaly abortion & guns politcally corect policys he’s junked either
What you’ve got is a right of centre candidate , black liberal intellegentsia elitist (elitist love that) , non core ‘left’ policys ….BUT a non Republican & abit more moderate than Mcain on some policys
For some here thats enough and thats fine by me But for some here th gilligans rusted on dedazzled by oratory falsely believing he is th ‘left’ man of change such delusion is intellectual bankrupotcy in defiance of what his policys stand for from his mouth Then others here play a disengenous game
[ I didn’t make this up, found it on a website …… 😉 ]
The new Nigerian money-raising scam letter (Hint: it’s from Washington DC)
Dear American:
I need to ask you to support an urgent secret business relationship with a transfer of funds of great magnitude.
I am Ministry of the Treasury of the Republic of America. My country has had crisis that has caused the need for large transfer of funds of 800 billion dollars US. If you would assist me in this transfer, it would be most profitable to you. I am working with Mr. Phil Gram, lobbyist for UBS, who will be my replacement as Ministry of the Treasury in January. As a Senator, you may know him as the leader of the American banking deregulation movement in the 1990s. This transaction is 100% safe.
This is a matter of great urgency. We need a blank check. We need the funds as quickly as possible. We cannot directly transfer these funds in the names of our close friends because we are constantly under surveillance. My family lawyer advised me that I should look for a reliable and trustworthy person who will act as a next of kin so the funds can be transferred.
Please reply with all of your bank account, IRA and college fund account numbers and those of your children and grandchildren to wallstreetbailout@treasury.gov so that we may transfer your commission for this transaction. After I receive that information, I will respond with detailed information about safeguards that will be used to protect the funds.
Yours Faithfully,
Minister of Treasury Paulson
The media is a bit unimpressed with McCain-Palin at the moment. They are only allowed to photograph Palin but they can’t talk to her. This race is just getting silly now.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/23/networks-revolt-against-r_n_128608.html
Juliem
Thanks for a great laugh. Of course those who know of Gram and Paulson know that the laugh could soon be on the US taxpayer. This is why the democrats should go after McCain hard on his links to Gram. Paulson’s proposals are proof of the problem. McCain can’t criticise the bailout and keep Gram as his economics advisor.
I can’t help wondering if, to use the spin of the treasury looters, Main Street shouldn’t just call Wall Street’s bluff. Who knows if the world’s finances will really collapse without the bailout? A few might collapse, but maybe thats not so bad. Some people will go to jail, and probably should. But will banking as we know it stop? Or just Wall Street banking? Our banks will soon get capital from China if they have to. If its really as bad as claims, and the survival of the istitutions is at stake, why won’t they release the details of their position (debts etc)? I smell a rat.
New polls:
Obama leads in Colorado, 51%, to 45% for McCain
The West could be fertile ground for Obama, in Colorado/New Mexico/Nevada – because of the Hispanic vote!
Also:
The Democrats are now ahead in the North Carolina senate race, Elizabeth Dole is in danger of getting tossed out!
And, the Democrat candidate even has a shot of winning the senatorial contest in Kentucky, believe it or not!
socrates
The bailout is in all kinds of trouble.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/24/business/economy/24fannie.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1222214762-w74Zfx9k6KjCh+qwGMgyNg
Its not only Hispanics that will vote for Obama in the mid-west and west. The sub prime crisis has been devastating in formerly fast growing cities like Denver, Las Vegas and Phoenix.
Diogenes
Yes and rightly so. The suggestion that such sweeping powers should be placed in the hands of one man (Paulson) with obvious past ties to some of the guilty parties (he was an investment banker) is very questionable. The NY Times editorial is quite caustic too.
[The media is a bit unimpressed with McCain-Palin at the moment. They are only allowed to photograph Palin but they can’t talk to her. This race is just getting silly now.]
They should just stop covering her at all unless they allow access. McCain would be behind by 10 without Palin’s picture popping up everywhere.
With just over 40 days to go its looking to me to be a similiar close contest that was between Carter and Ford in 1976. However this time the Republican candidate John McCain will prevail over his Democrat rival. The US economy is shaky and Heartland America is looking for an experienced man at the helm to rebuild confidence and a sense of security. Heartland America as opposed to the trendy Liberal elites on the East and West coasts are also prepared to stand the course in Iraq and have a hardline view of Iranian intention and now with Russia flexing its muscles they want a Commander in Chief that knows how to project American power in a holistic approach that protects their homeland.
lol, which Republican blog did you cut & paste that from Paul?
I just wrote it myself but if its similar to Republican messages thats fine because it makes perfect sense.
With just over 40 days to go its looking to a close contest. However this time the Republican candidate John McCain is suffering a severe credibility crisis with his running mate Sarah Palin looking increasingly shallow. The US economy is shaky and Heartland America is looking for a man at the helm to rebuild confidence and a sense of security by removing the old system of unregulated greed that has grown up under a Republican administration. Heartland America as opposed to the systemic greed and corruption that has bought the financial system to its knees and, exhausted over the never ending presence in Iraq, desperate for a candidate that would wind up this operation and bring systemic moral change to Wall street. The Iranian and Russia issues require new thinking and a change from the old approach of unthinking aggression and threat. Americans want a Commander in Chief that is willing to first solve problems without killing our own in senseless unwinable battles and willing to utilise a multi-lateral approach to world problems. More and more the American people are seeing that all their current problems stem from old Republican philosophy. I can dross with the best. Couldn’t find space to put Kevin Rudd in there.
Paul, i think the only problem with what your saying is that all the polling suggests that
a) the economy is the biggest issue;
b) the majority blame the republicans for the mess; and
c) the majority of those polled say they trust the dems to fix it more than they do the repubs.
Reading some republican spin, I can’t help being reminded of the rambling of elderly former Queensland premier Joh Bjelke Petersen.
Joh: “You mark my lambs… just you wait and see…. never you mind about that”
Paul Nash: “Heartland America is looking for an experienced man at the helm to rebuild confidence and a sense of security… prepared to stand the course…that protects their homeland”.
McCain: “”The issue of economics is something that I’ve really never understood as well as I should. I understand the basics, the fundamentals, the vision, all that kind of stuff.”
Of course, in the end we found Joh was corrupt too.