That non-existent Morgan poll discussed in the previous post has now shown its face four days behind schedule. The phone survey of an unusually small sample of 618 respondents supports last week’s Newspoll finding that some of the gloss has come off Labor’s lead, which is at 47 per cent to 37 per cent on the primary vote and 58-42 on two-party preferred. This is down from 62-38 at the Morgan face-to-face poll published the previous Friday and 62.5-37.5 at the previous phone poll from mid-April, and is on both measures Labor’s weakest result since the election.
In other news, News Limited reports that Alexander Downer is “expected to quit Parliament within days”, having “delayed his departure until after Treasurer Wayne Swan tonight outlines Labor’s first Budget in 12 years, so as to avoid distracting from the Coalition’s response to it”. This of course will mean a by-election for his South Australian seat of Mayo.
Petrol tax cuts and we are running out of oil and Medicare threshold opposition, yep from the people who are causing hospital waiting lists the pathetic Liberal Party.
What planet do these people live on.
marky marky – as I remember it the legal drinking age was dropped to 18 because of the incongruity of teenagers being old enough to send to war but not old enough to go to the pub to have a farewell drink with the old man.
However, if it’s deemed that 18yos aren’t mature enough to handle the grog, are they mature enough to vote? And would either side be advantaged by raising the voting age to 21?
On the alcopops business, I don’t drink, but if I did I’d probably be more than a bit miffed at having to pay more tax on a brandy and coke I mixed myself than the exact same thing out of a can. IMHO, alcohol should be taxed at the same rate no matter how its packaged, though I can see why wine needs to be an exception because so much of it is exported and most countries treat it differently than beer and spirits.
Chucky’s mum is on Lateline
Leigh Sayles is targeting the obvious conflicts:
Petrol excise (no action in 7 years) – no answer
Choice and freedom/Medicare – no answer; she can’t understand the difference between choice and the exidting penalty system. Even when faced with the proposition that proppoing up the system is blatantly agaist their ‘conservative’ market driven mantra. Too stupid.
Alcopops flip flop – attempts to get Brendan off on a technicality by saying there’s no evidence for the health benefits.
http://www.marininstitute.org/alcopops/alcopops_taxreport.htm
Brendan’s leadership – zip nada nothing; reading from a campaign text
Gippsland election – zip nada nothing; reading from a campaign text
The team – childish response
(this is getting hard)
Time in opposition – 1 term opposition stuff Brendan is good; Kevin is bad; just like Star Wars…
As a woman in WA Liberal party – matter for the state; no opinion.
Thanks for nothing Julie. Me thinks a lifetime of hairspray has had it’s effect.
At last a semi-intellectual set of questions on Lateline. Lets make a push for getting Leigh in the chair full time.
As a SINGLE person, it’s hard to work out whether the Liberal or Labor Party hates you the most!!!!
254 dingo – What? Labor just saved me from paying that bloody 500 dollar medicare levy.
Labor will cost Bendan’s proposals, then we’ll see who is economically responsible.
Anyone notice how Labor did not say boo during Nelson’s attempt at saving his job.
Well I just wanted to add that, like most posters who are not in Nelson’s direct employment, I thought the reply was dismal. Economically it was a bizarre set of contradictions – one the one hand he criticises the budget for being inflationary (??) and yet then proceeds to oppose the measures designed to take money out of the economy (i.e. reduce inflationary prssures), without offering any balancing cuts. So in other words, Nelson’s position must logically make inflation worse.
As for alcopops, why he has to make an issue out of a sensible move to end an obvious inconsistency in the tax system is quite odd. When you latch onto the trivial, people will have to conclude that you have nothing substantial to say.
At this point I think the only person who would like Nelson to remain opposition leader is Kevin Rudd.
Dingo, there is no comparison for singles. Labor has just repealed in excess of $4 billion of concessions to wealthy families, and raised the medicare levy threshold for individuals to $100k. When did the Liberals do anything for single people in the past four budgets, even though they had a combined total surplus of over $40 billion to play with?
Gary
Spot on, the behaviour of the Labor members was excellent, and in a way that was smart politics in itself. It was obvious who was disciplined, who was a rabble, and who were the hypocrits when it came to making pompous promises about parliamentary standards.
I’m cool. Made an early decision to reject Howard’s bullying, his big sticks and inedible horse carrots. The whole disgusting thrust, handing taxpayers money to the owners and shareholders of the health care funds.
Guessed it would turn around, eventually. And here we are.
I am rather more keen on the taxpayers money being put into public health. As opposed to being diverted to the private owners as described.
If an individual wants private cover, go for it.
If a health fund wants to make it attractive, go for it. Even if it costs them a little in returns.
I was prior to the Howard whipping a subscriber to Medicare Private, which was not too badly priced and offered certain benefits. Which were welcome. A bit on spectacles, dental. Not fantastic but a little worthwhile. A bit here and there.
The ‘gap’ was and remains a contentious and unresolved issue. Who, even as a private health care subscriber, would ever admit that they were such when needing imperative treatment. Not my Mum. Who received the best in the public system.
A double dissolution would be a fantastic outcome except, don’t expect the media to do anything except lie through their teeth to the public in order to support the Liberal party.
They all lament Howard’s taking tax payers money and giving it to business and then say he was giving people choice. Like I want to donate my tax to private schools whilst public schools were underfunded. Like giving money to private insurance companies and private hospitals and cut money from public hospitals. Taking hundreds of millions for election advertising, giving welfare to the needy rich. Disempowering the average working Australian with Dickensian WorkChoices to ensure they would end up totally at the mercy of Business cartels.
Using tax payer money as there own personal fund to bribe people at election times at the expense of the economy, totally neglecting investment in health, education, infrastructure, water and so on. Seems Megalogenis at The Australian admired these things ……in such phrases as …
“Howard used taxpayers’ money to reward people for consuming private services
such as schools and hospitals.”
How about stole taxpayer money to give to business instead improving public services… Maybe Mega doesn’t believe in public schools, hospitals and, preferred Howard’s vision of creating privileged Australians and disempowered Australians.
The neocons are still out there in force and still stand by the dead body of Howardism and will promote the incompetent remnant of a nasty viscous government.
When will the msm get off their lazy arses and hold the opposition [such as it is] to account for this incoherent babble of a budget response.
If labor in oppo had dared to put forth such rubbish it would have been headline material for at least a couple of days , yet instead of that we have the unedifying vision of my bloody ABC giving the conservatives a free pass.
BTW i want my 8 cents back.
long time lurker first time poster.
If any of the media were even slightly honest they would lambaste Nelson’s reply as being ridiculous, bordering on silly. If Rudd came out with something like that they would be ridiculing him from dawn to dusk. Nelson’s effort was a disgrace, poor and childish – have they no talent? Have they no advisers?
We are used to the Murdoch crew being dishonest on a regular basis and, the ABC trying to be the Liberal party’s iron lung.
They should be ripping shreds of the Liberal party and especially Nelson for being totally incompetent and, an embarrassment as an Opposition party and, for doing nothing genuine to reform themselves.
Seems the media has accepted the new level of incompetence and moral emptiness of the Liberal party and will promote them as acceptable in the vain hope of raising them up before the next election.
The media have been doing something similar in the states for a while….and look how well that has served the Liberal party!
Seems the Liberal commentators like the party refuse to accept reality and realise the need for Real reform.
I’m just waiting to here about Turnbull’s Quokka experience or the hard right undertaking exorcisms.
What, no thread on the budget, William? Where now are all the people who spent last year rubbishing Swanny as some kind of retard? It was a BRILLIANT budget, and while Polish TV didn’t for some reason carry Swanny’s speech live, my sources tell me it was first class.
The latest on the Pineapple Party merger shows that despite a Liberal Council meeting last night to once again change the rules there have been no substantial public change announced. The courier Mail article seems to be written before the event and has all the relevance of a Doctor Nelson budget reply speech..
“A BITTER split has emerged among Queensland Liberal MPs after Bruce Flegg accused the party’s leaders of trying to manipulate rank-and-file members.
Dr Flegg yesterday insisted he had nothing to do with an attempt by leader Mark McArdle and deputy Tim Nicholls to delay the party’s state convention.
In a letter sent to party members, Dr Flegg said other MPs had not been consulted and the move would rob members of their right to elect the organisational leadership.”
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,23705130-3102,00.html
Can someone please enlighten me, who the hell is “Chucky’s Mum”.
Kina @ 263, yes indeed, they are pathetic, if we had any real journalists they would be ripping Nelson to shreds over his p*ss weak effort, and old Fat Joe sitting behind him nodding sagely away, probably dreaming of a big plate of kebabs!
Can we organise an online petition to clean out the nest of vipers now controlling our ABC?
Well the Liberal Budget reply? Can’t see a bounce in the polls. Looks like the pieces are set to move the deck chairs.
245
Dangerous Says:
If a substance is legal, it will be used by a far larger percentage of the population than if it is illegal (duh).
Maybe maybe, not, but making it legal means you can tax it at a level where the users pay for the medical resources used to clean up the mess, and law enforcement can concentrate on more useful things.
Okay, Nelson is an economic (and all round political) twit. But is the alternative any better?
Turnbull has been flipping and flopping just as much as Mr 9 percent. For 6 months inflation was a figment of Swan’s imagination, this week the inflation sky is going to fall in. Last week he was demanding more spending in the budget to counter a supposedly looming recession, this week he’s horrified that expenditure wasn’t filleted within an inch of its budgetary life.
I know in politics you’re supposed to bag everything your opponents do, but 180 degree swings are not a good look. Especially when you do two of them in rapid succession and end up back where you started.
Nelson slams the quality of our teachers and sitting right behind him nodding away in total agreement was the former education minister herself.! I’m still laughing.!
Basil 266
“Chuckey’s Mum” is Julia Bishop. I didn’t get it myself until I saw her staring ernestly into a camera and then realised that it was scarily accurate. The eyes have it.
A former president of the AMA is now condoning underage drinking?
Nelson is a tool of the first order!
And it’s very easy in opposition to float proposals you’ve got buckley’s chance of ever implementing, this proposed cut in petrol excise is a frigging great smelly con!
The most laughable thing watching last night: the applause from the rent a crowd young Liberals they brought along, presumably from Nelson’s own electorate on Sydney’s North Shore.
266 Basil
credit to ‘red wombat’ – bloody spot on
budget horror (with and without the pun)
I gave Mr Peter Martin a serve yesterday Today he’s asking the right questions so I’ll give him a his article in today’s Canberra times plug.
Hopefully his dead tree text makes on to the tubes at some point today.
There are Lib supporters where I work who are astonished (angry even) that their party isn’t supporting the increased tax on alcopops. Nelson and Co seem intent on destroying whatever trace of repectability their political brand enjoys.
MayoFeral
“Okay, Nelson is an economic (and all round political) twit. But is the alternative any better?”
I find it hard to judge who is the bigger tool. Malcolm does manage to sound more confident (whilst talking complete bilge) on TV.
A liberal supporter friend raised this with me recently and I’m afraid I wasn’t very helpful or sympathetic. In fact I may have quoted Josh Lyman, “you might do better discussing this with someone, who, you know, cares.”
#275
Yes, the anti-alcopops-tax line is a non-starter. Just look at the things Nelson is going into bat for: alcopops and luxury cars! Brilliant.
A bit ‘off topic’ (sorry William) but here is a question for those PBs (including our host) who follow day to day WA politics more closely than I do: is it true that the Australian Labor party’s Jim McGinty said (feigning jocularity) that pedophiles are Liberal voters?
Nelson has now said he won’t vote against the means testing! ROTFL
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/16/2246675.htm
Gee thats generous of him, not holding the threat of a double dissolution over Rudd’s head. I dare say the third spot Liberal senators in every state will be grateful too. Their path to unemployment in a DD would be fairly swift on current poll numbers.
278 David Charles – now come on David you must know the answer. I don’t. You just don’t put that out there and leave it at that. Where did YOU get this information?
279 Socrates thanks for the link. I note also economists are sceptical about Nelson’s petrol tax cut plan.
If the audio link doesn’t work go to the abc link and find the audio link.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/05/16/2246675.htm
Audio: Economists sceptical about Nelson’s petrol tax cut plan (AM)
278 David Charles – I agree with Gary. There is no mention of that claim on any of the WA news sites or blogs that I just checked. What is your basis for asking that question/making that claim?
I hope it isn’t another diversion desperation tactic a la the Libs in the last Federal election, claiming candidates were inelligible and all sorts of groundless scares because they knew they were toast.
278 Gary
Following on from David:
It’s a story on News Radio I heard this morning.
from what I remember:
It was said as a joke when discussing the topic of inhabitants of correctional facilities having the vote. (I can’t remember the forum of discussion)
He later called journalists and asked them not to run the comments.
He has refused to apologise for the joke on the grounds that he meant no malice and it was just a joke.
I guess you had to be there, but it’s not a good look out of context.
Nelson was interviewed on Mitchell (AW) this morning and couldn’t give any details as to how his petrol plan would work. Well thought out wouldn’t you say? I wonder when he thought of it, yesterday afternoon?
Thanks 283 onimod. Jokes like that can get politicians into awful trouble. Best left unsaid.
Gary
Don’t get me started on the petrol tax cut plan. I was only focusing on the incoherent and logically false aspects of Nelson’s speech; I didn’t go through each individual stupid idea. As for the petrol tax cut, here are the problems:
– first, it reduces the surplus several billion and hence increases inflation pressures
– second, it makes bugger all difference – petrol has more than doubled in three years, and this would take 5 cents off the price – so what? How does that save anyone’s mortgage?Australian petrol taxes are already amoung the lowest in the OECD.
– third, it is niave to expect that this problem will go away. Stopping profiteering from short term price spikes near weekends is one thing, but there is no evidence that the long term trend price is going anywhere but up.
The only real long term solution is investment in public transport and more efficient vehicles (the fuel economy of Australia’s light vehicle fleet in 2006 was actually slightly WORSE than it was in the early 1980s.)
I frankly wasn’t too impressed with some of Labor’s recent comments on increasign oil exploration in new offshore areas. Oil exploration activity is intense world wide now; you can’t hire a drilling rig or good petroleum geologist for love or money. Yet new discoveries are not keeping pace with demand growth, mainly from China. So dreaming that a few local deep ocean strikes will suddenly get us cheap oil again is pretty unrealistic. Cheap oil is gone; kaput. But now, incredibly, Nelson has said something even dumber.
278 David Charles – my apology; I just saw Onimod’s answer. What a stupid thing to say.
GB (280) I am losing respect for you following your (unnecessary) outburst. Socrates (282) had no business agreeing with you. I asked a question and Onimod (283) was good enough to confirm the details. I heard a very cursory report of the subject on ABC (NSW) local radio last night while I was driving my son home from sports practice.
Socrates (287) Thanks for your apology. I agree it was a stupid thing to say even if it was said as a “joke” and McGinty wanted it “off the record”.
Sorry David, I’m used to people stirring on here. You are obviously not one of them.
286 Socrates – agreed. The only way to bring down oil prices is to bring down the demand and while doing so the enviroment can also benefit. Makes sense.
The context was that the proposition was put to McGinty by a journalist that Labor was reinstating the right to vote for people serving sentences of less than three years because such criminals tended to be Labor supporters.
McGinty replied to the effect that a recent High Court decision made the existing restriction illegal, and in any event (joking) he understood pedophiles were Liberal supporters.
Inappripriate yes, but in the context of responding to an insolent, loaded question, understandable.
inappropriate
This is how prisoners voted in my electorate.
Liberal, Greens, Nationals, Labor, Democrats, Independent…..nil
Informal……………………………………………………………….1
Family First……………………………………………………………1
Just thought you would like to know.
Oh dear – small mans syndrome strikes again.
I have respect for a lot of Greens policy, but it’s hard to support the following example of political opportunism:
Greens threaten to oppose alcopop tax
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23707670-601,00.html
The reason no one had gone to speak to lonely Bob is that no-one in their right mind thought there would be opposition to equalising the tax on alcopops, either when considered as a health issue in isolation, or even as an isolated taxation issue. How is it that one plus one now equals zero?
We’re behind in this issue when compared with Europe and the US. In a/some (can’t remember) European country they tax alcopos at a rate 4 times that of spirits alone.
The health issue is about more than just the alcohol content, it’s about the culture that develops when alcohol is introduced as a sweet where the initial taste and consumption gives no hint of the alcohol content.
Fulvio (292) The further information you kindly provided about the context of McGinty’s remark, is very important. It is why I sought particulars from someone with local knowledge.
I’m really all for giving pensioners a better deal. More power to them. I just have one question though, where were they last year or the previous year?
297
Hiding under the bed from those ‘islamo-fascists’.
Now that they feel safe enough to come out and live again they want some spending money.
All jokes aside, the ‘you’re-with-us-or-against-us’ mentality and the willingness of groups to play that game politically has hurt a lot of people.
People might believe in whatever side of politics, but voting for them blindly is not very smart. You might say that pensioners have voted for ‘the good of the nation’ for the last decade, but in doing so they’ve agreed to net losses in living standards, though most of them don’t even realise it now. I find it all a bit sad and uneducated really.
Anyone want a giggle at the actual numbers of Tarago’s involved in the “Tarago Tax”?
http://possumcomitatus.wordpress.com/2008/05/16/nelsons-tarago-too-far/
The non-government parties are suffering relevance deprivation syndrome which leads them to make their stand on things they really should leave alone or support.
It has to be fairly obvious that selling alcohol dressesed up as a cutish soft drink is intended to get the youngest demographic drinking and, particularly young women.
Its a no brainer that seems to have worked a charm and attacted the no brainers Brown and Nelson. Most of the population are going to assume that an alcoholic drink called ‘alco-pop’ is a trap for the young.
A Nelson is going to block this in the Senate? That is going to look pretty damn silly especially when you have all the ‘experts’ saying he is wrong.
The thing is Nelson knows that it is bad but has become so desperate to win some votes that he is willing to make a stand on it. It may work, it will win some over who like the idea of him making a stand on something. However it will no doubt make more secure a lot of soft ALP voters who will now know for sure the LNP has lost its soul.
Nelson has so far sympathised with bankers who force sale of peoples homes, supports welfare to the rich, doesnt support taxing ‘luxury’ cars at a higher rate, not interested in protecting teenage/young women from binge drinking, thinks inflation is an over blown issue.