Polls: federal and WA leaders, budget response, foreign policy (open thread)

Familiar results on the budget and federal politics generally, plus a finding that Mark McGowan continues to reign supreme in Western Australia.

Fair bit of polling doing the rounds this week, as is generally the case in the wake of a budget:

• The Age/Herald had further results from the Resolve Strategic poll on Tuesday, including ratings for the two leaders, which had 57% rating Anthony Albanese’s performance as very good or good compared with 28% for poor or very poor, with Peter Dutton respectively at 29% and 41%. The poll also found 40% supported allowing multi-employer bargaining, with 24% opposed; 26% supported mandatory multi-employer bargaining, with 32% opposed; and an even 29% favoured higher wages at the cost of higher prices and vice-versa.

• This fortnight’s Essential Research survey features the monthly prime ministerial ratings, which now involves directing respondents to give Anthony Albanese a rating from zero to ten. Forty-five per cent gave him between seven and ten, down one on last month; 28% gave him from four to six, down three; and 20% gave him zero to three, up three. Questions on the budget turned up one finding missed by the others: 45% said they had paid it little or no attention, around ten points up on the last three budgets, while 55% said a little or a lot, around ten points down. Fifty-two per cent expect economic conditions to worsen over the next twelve months, up twelve since June, while 24% expect them to improve, down eight. Respondents were asked to pick first and second most important contributors to energy price increases, which had excessive profits and efforts to fight climate change leading the field, international circumstances and a worn-out energy network somewhat lower, and too many restrictions on exploration well behind. The poll was conducted Saturday to Wednesday from a sample of 1058.

• Roy Morgan’s regular weekly video has included primary votes from its latest federal poll, conducted from October 24 (the day before the budget) to October 30, rather than just two-party preferred as per its usual form. This shows Labor on 38.5% (down half on the previous week), the Coalition on 37% (up one-and-a-half), the Greens on 12% (up one), independents on 6% (down two) and One Nation on 3% (down one-and-a-half). Labor led 55.5-44.5 on two-party preferred, out from 54.5-45.5.

• The quarterly-or-so True Issues series from JWS Research is a “special release” on the budget, as opposed to its usual focus on issue salience. It finds 14% of respondents saying the budget would be good or very good for them personally compared with 36% for average and 31% for poor or very poor; for the national economic impact, the respective numbers were 20%, 38% and 25%. However, respondents provided highly positive responses when asked about fifteen specific budget measures, all but one of which attracted a favourable response – the distinct exception being “axing” the low-and-middle income tax offset. The most popular spending measures involved health and the least popular (relatively speaking) involved parental leave and childcare subsidies.

• The University of Sydney’s United States Studies Centre has results of a YouGov poll it commissioned encompassing 1000 respondents in each of Australia, the United States and Japan, conducted from September 5 to 9. It found 44% of Australians would support responding with force if China invaded Taiwan, compared with 33% of Americans; 36% of Australians felt the US alliance made Australia more secure, with 58% of Americans holding a reciprocal view, up from 44% in December; 52% of Australians felt China was “mostly harmful” in Asia, with 20% rating it “mostly helpful”; an interestingly even 28% and 31% felt the same way about the United States, in dramatic contrast to results of 7% and 52% among Japanese respondents; 36% approved of the federal government’s handling of the relationship with China, with 19% disapproving; 52% supported the nuclear submarines plan, with 19% opposed; and “one in two”. Thirty-six per cent of Australians felt it would be good for the country if Joe Biden won another term compared with 19% for bad, while 50% felt a return of Donald Trump would be bad compared with 26% for good.

• In a rare bit of interesting polling news from Western Australia, a Painted Dog Research poll for The West Australian finds Mark McGowan with an approval rating of 70%, up two from March, and a disapproval rating of 18%, down seven, suggesting a consistency of popularity beyond any Australian politician I could name. David Honey, leader of what remains of the state parliamentary Liberal Party, had an approval rating of just 9%, with 31% disapproving, 40% neutral and 19% oblivious. The poll also found stage three tax cuts supported by 53% and opposed by 32%. It was conducted from October 19 to 21 from a sample of 637.

Author: William Bowe

William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, has existed in one form or another since 2004, and is one of the most heavily trafficked websites on Australian politics.

1,198 comments on “Polls: federal and WA leaders, budget response, foreign policy (open thread)”

Comments Page 24 of 24
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  1. Antony Green – elections @AntonyGreenElec

    21m
    Family First have nominated in all 88 Victorian lower house districts. At this stage Victoria is on track for more than 600 lower house candidates, up from 507 in 2018.

  2. I just received my electricity bill for the 94 days to 31 October.

    $50.50, or 20%, less than last quarter. Rates unchanged.
    20.28 cents per kWh Anytime Tariff.
    10.2 cents per kWh Offpeak

    From Red Energy ie Snowy Hydro.

    Go figure! What’s everybody moaning about?(S) Why am I special?

    I was expecting to be unpleasantly surprised.

  3. could tayler be the 2020s vertion of ian mcklaklin to yung to remember him in parliament but in 1990 lots of hype like tayler that we wereseing a future pm mcklauclan was the nff head and the next liberal pm but he served for three terms and was a forgetable defence minister onByrne he is honistly one of the most un remarkable mps

  4. Mrs Dog alerted me to Toned Abbs breaking cover (possibly wind as well) on National Service. I can’t imaging the services really want to be inundated with a swarm of 18-19 y.o. conscripts. A good proportion of them would have to have extra accommodation and facilities for the Helicopter Parents and the administrative nightmare of dealing with all the applications for exemption would be unthinkable.

    Mind you, my nephew who we thought would be held back 6 months at RMC due to breaking his wrists mountain biking, will actually graduate with his class. As my officer son says, they are putting anyone they can into units at the moment due to shortages.

  5. for all the constanthype about byrne as some national security exbert for being chairman or deputy of inteligents comity the highest he got was astistant minister to rudd and was never a security minister he sseems to survived for this long due to his skill at branch stacking and his friendship with the pro us hacks like mckenzey and benson not even his best mate rudd thought he was ministearila quality

  6. like some others jorje the x actu president andrew rob there istayler was talked about as a future mp great businesman but has largily underwelmed in parliament he is a weak performer in parliament maybi the voters did not come to byrne about crime as no one knew who he was

  7. Socrates,C@T, E-A, Ven and others

    Re Hugh White and China. I’ve listened to the talk but not the QA following.
    My main takeout was that White believes the US cannot and will not take on China over Taiwan but to my mind, gave little incontrovertible reasoning for this. I understood his belief to be based on the fact that he feels the US is unwilling and incapable.

    To the first point, this might be true under Trump and the GOP (though this isn’t certain) but Biden has made it more than clear that under his leadership America is willing. I still maintain that if China was so willing then it would’ve attacked months or years ago. Allowing Taiwan to arm and strengthen has made China’s job so much more difficult. In my mind, China is still uncertain.

    But it’s the 2nd point that I take real issue with. I can only assume from his implications that White believes that China will win due to massive force. If my understanding is correct, he has gravely overstated China’s capability and understated America’s (and Taiwan’s) capability. Innumerable wars have been lost by sides with numerically superior forces (exhibit A: most recently Russia in Ukraine).

    Furthermore, America lost in Afghanistan because it essentially fought a guerilla force it was not structured to meet (it’s my contention guerilla forces often defeat conventional forces). There is probably no better conventional force in the world than America, particularly when it combines its air, sea and ground forces. China (as its generals have noted) is untested in this warfare on a large scale for many decades. America however has proven (in Iraq) that its ability to dominate all three battle spaces concurrently is unmatched but it is its intelligence and satellite capacity that gives it such a significant advantage.

    Taiwan will already have significantly bolstered it’s defences and attack platforms and for a long time has been at a high notice-to-move status. The intelligence it receives daily from the US will be highly accurate. Although Taiwan will suffer significantly, it will also inflict significant losses on China, and that is before considering the impact of US operations. Again I make the point, a very real (although indeterminate) strength lays with the defender. I would not guarantee that the US would win but I give it at least the same chance as China. I don’t share White’s certainty of an inevitable Chinese victory.

  8. Aaron newton @ #1153 Monday, November 7th, 2022 – 7:46 pm

    could tayler be the 2020s vertion of ian mcklaklin to yung to remember him in parliament but in 1990 lots of hype like tayler that we wereseing a future pm mcklauclan was the nff head and the next liberal pm but he served for three terms and was a forgetable defence minister onByrne he is honistly one of the most un remarkable mps

    Taylor is just the next massively overrated Liberal hack to come off the assembly line following on from Frydenberg and Hockey.

  9. Boerwar:

    Monday, November 7, 2022 at 6:58 pm

    “Oh, like the weapons of mass destruction on Iraq?”, she said.’

    I’m unsure about the comment by Holmes as it could give rise to the perception that she’s partial, bearing in mind she was nominated as the chief justice of QLD by Palaszczuk. I wonder if she regrets it.

    ________________________________________

    Cat,

    Parts 1 & 2 of your thesis are very well argued. And while I’m not sufficiently informed of the subject matter, a Bravo Zulu to you.

  10. Cronus

    White goes into a lot more detail in his book. He argues there are no longer significant reasons for the US to want to control the west Pacific. He is also concerned about declining political unity in the US.

    In the QandA he argues China would not invade but blockade Taiwan and force them into submission. The PLAN navy, SCC island bases, and missiles/A2AD capability all suit that strategy.

  11. ‘Mavis says:
    Monday, November 7, 2022 at 8:03 pm

    Boerwar:

    Monday, November 7, 2022 at 6:58 pm

    “Oh, like the weapons of mass destruction on Iraq?”, she said.’

    I’m unsure about the comment by Holmes as it could give rise to the perception that she’s partial, bearing in mind she was nominated as the chief justice of QLD by Palaszczuk. I wonder if she regrets it.’
    ————————————————————–
    An interesting point, IMO.

  12. ‘Socrates says:
    Monday, November 7, 2022 at 8:11 pm

    Cronus

    White goes into a lot more detail in his book. He argues there are no longer significant reasons for the US to want to control the west Pacific. He is also concerned about declining political unity in the US.

    In the QandA he argues China would not invade but blockade Taiwan and force them into submission. The PLAN navy, SCC island bases, and missiles/A2AD capability all suit that strategy.’
    ——————————————————–
    This would turn the critical decision into whether the US would run convoys into Taiwan.

  13. C@T

    I would agree too with your comments re India (from the Hugh White talk).
    At no stage that I can recall off hand at least has India ever (other than a couple of border skirmishes with Pakistan and China) seriously undertaken military intervention far less given a sense of becoming an international hegemon.

    Notwithstanding that it’s a nuclear nation with the world’s largest population, it has simply shown no desire whatsoever to undertake such a role. I think this too is a flaw in White’s analysis, at least based on India’s record. Size does not equate to desire or capability.

  14. Four Corners tonight

    Stopping Putin
    8:32PM – 9:19PM
    CC
    Examining whether Western powers failed to prevent war, the program traces the current war in Ukraine back to 2014, when Russia invaded Crimea and supported the separatist movements in the eastern Ukrainian region of Donbas.

  15. Boerwar

    “ This would turn the critical decision into whether the US would run convoys into Taiwan.”

    That is really difficult. All their major ports are on the west (China) side coast. Air transport can’t feed 23 million. They are only 30% self sufficient in food.

  16. Dog’s Brunch says:
    Monday, November 7, 2022 at 7:46 pm
    Mrs Dog alerted me to Toned Abbs breaking cover (possibly wind as well) on National Service. I can’t imaging the services really want to be inundated with a swarm of 18-19 y.o. conscripts. A good proportion of them would have to have extra accommodation and facilities for the Helicopter Parents and the administrative nightmare of dealing with all the applications for exemption would be unthinkable.

    Mind you, my nephew who we thought would be held back 6 months at RMC due to breaking his wrists mountain biking, will actually graduate with his class. As my officer son says, they are putting anyone they can into units at the moment due to shortages.
    ——————————————————————————————-

    Yep and unemployment is low meaning the ADF will take any willing warm body.

  17. Holmes’ comment about the slam dunk may be a sign to critics of the royal commission that she is partial but when I read the background to the comment I took it she is a well read student of history.

    And a few of her other questions to witnesses may suggest she is partial. Robodebt was a stuff up at so many levels and I think she takes her brief to find out how it happened and ensure nothing like it happens again very seriously.

  18. ‘Socrates says:
    Monday, November 7, 2022 at 8:18 pm

    Boerwar

    “ This would turn the critical decision into whether the US would run convoys into Taiwan.”

    That is really difficult. All their major ports are on the west (China) side coast. Air transport can’t feed 23 million. They are only 30% self sufficient in food.’
    ——————————————-
    It was a comment about China trying to avoid an invasion of Taiwan by instituting a blockade. There would still be a potential trigger and in this case the trigger would be a decision by the US to support convoys. The actual convoy battles would be horrendously difficult as you point out. But there is no reason at all to think that the US would feel obliged to restrict the shooting war to convoy battles. There is plenty of low hanging fruit that China would find extremely difficult to defend.

  19. Mavis, RossMcg
    The interventions could be interpreted as an unwillingness to accept tergiversations at face value and intervening to force witnesses to get a bit nearer to the truth.

  20. Boerwar

    Tergiversations? Good word. I had to look it up.

    Holmes and counsel assisting show every sign of what you say.

    First witness today was asked about some protocol and asked where the document was. “It’s on line,” he said.

    “So we can look it up” asked counsel, with just the hint of an irritated tone and and an arched eyebrow.

  21. there is no real reason for us to ingage a war in china with tiwon America has nothad a victory in a war since 1945how could america win win when china has a army larger then them remember aspi and the produttons do not actualy fight them selves send others in stead the american military all ways seems looking foor a n other war stayed in afghanistan but when a country want democrasy theleadership wants ucrane to give in to rusia

  22. Cat 5.25

    Thanks and a well argued response to White.

    Upon reflection I would say:
    – I agree with you and disagree with White on Russia. To me Russia is more like 19th Century Turkey than a great power. It is a fading empire that might soon break up. China is the real threat IMO, not Russia. White and his generation of analysts having spent the cold war studying the Russian threat, he is perhaps biased in favour of its existence.
    – I agree it is possible White is overstating the power of China. He is assuming that its economic power will translate to military power. In the long term I think that is likely, but in the short term that appears doubtful and long term is still unknown.
    – I still think our greatest risk is political disunity in USA. I take the point that democracy can beat autocracy as per Churchills view. (Corrupt autocracies never reform or remove themselves). I also take Cronus’ point that the US conventional forces are still very strong. But I am still struck at how badly US political leadership can lead them astray, as Afghanistan and Iraq have both demonstrated over 20 years.
    – So I don’t suggest we abandon the alliance with USA, but we should be prudently prepared to deal with our defence in isolation if needed.

  23. Tests for bias in inquiries are probably different to ordinary trials where, in the latter case, there has to be a winner and a loser. Here there is just a report which can be acted on or ignored or somewhere in between.

    Justice Holmes’ analogue, accurate or inaccurate, was more designed to summarise the effect of a witness’ analysis and does not suggest she has closed her mind to other evidence.

  24. Socrates says:
    Monday, November 7, 2022 at 8:11 pm
    Cronus

    White goes into a lot more detail in his book. He argues there are no longer significant reasons for the US to want to control the west Pacific. He is also concerned about declining political unity in the US.

    In the QandA he argues China would not invade but blockade Taiwan and force them into submission. The PLAN navy, SCC island bases, and missiles/A2AD capability all suit that strategy.
    ——————————————————————————————-

    Hi Soc

    I need to read his book. I wonder though why the US so strongly supports Taiwan not only with words but with arms and why it continues to sail through the contested international waters and is planning on establishing major bases in Australia if it feels it doesn’t have significant reason to control the West Pacific.

    I certainly share White’s concern about US political unity, to me it’s the greatest area of concern and potential weakness and cannot be guaranteed at this point.

    China may well blockade Taiwan but it has to choose to sink a US ship/s thereby entering into war for this to be in any way successful. The same goes for resupply of Taiwan by air. I fully expect America to exercise its right to freedom of navigation because to do otherwise would be to turn its back on an inviolable American and international value, regardless of location.

  25. Seen on Aus.Social

    The comfort so many took during the 9 dismal Coalition years could be encapsulated by, “Just wait.” Some of the waiting may be over.

  26. Since I started on this med – “Age of Spring”- I can even remember where I lost my false teeth, and my hearing aids, and it’s all scientifically proven plus there are even free E-Books thrown in:

    https://getagelessbrainnow.com/gdn4

    Disclaimer: I have no connection whatsoever with the Doctor of Naturopathy selling this remarkable remedy.

  27. With the war mongers shooting darts at the dogs of war, trying to start a conflict with China, anyone near the age of leaving school would do well to invest in a diagnosis that would exempt them from any kind of national service, you know just in case these moronic war mongers get their way and thousands of Australian youth are sent to die somewhere.

  28. poroti @ #977 Monday, November 7th, 2022 – 9:52 am

    Alpha Zero at 9:36 am
    Re the NZ cartoon about the bird. A pic showing what it not got….

    Lives in a scenic home though…………

    Been there, done that. The pic is taken from the McKenzie saddle – about 500m of steep rock above the west exit of the Homer tunnel. No Piwauwau there on the clear January day in 2003 when I was – only Kea and Weta.

  29. Cronussays:
    Monday, November 7, 2022 at 8:16 pm
    C@T

    I would agree too with your comments re India (from the Hugh White talk).
    At no stage that I can recall off hand at least has India ever (other than a couple of border skirmishes with Pakistan and China) seriously undertaken military intervention far less given a sense of becoming an international hegemon.

    ~~~~~

    Are you suggesting that China has such history? Or that it has shown a recent propensity to behave in such a fashion?

    Taiwan is recognised by most, including Australia, as part of China. The China that is governed by the CCP. That the CCP, as the party political representatives of the Chinese Govt would like Taiwan to return to it’s control is unsurprising. Hardly the stuff of a hegemon.

  30. WeWantPaulsays:
    Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:10 pm
    With the war mongers shooting darts at the dogs of war, trying to start a conflict with China, anyone near the age of leaving school would do well to invest in a diagnosis that would exempt them from any kind of national service, you know just in case these moronic war mongers get their way and thousands of Australian youth are sent to die somewhere

    ~~~~

    Isn’t it always someone else’s kids and grandkids that do the dying? The loonies at ASPI just write the papers and take the cheques from foreign governments and defence contractors. The others do the dying.

  31. Unfortunetly I haven’t got to watching the Hugh White video myself yet. Which is a shame, but I will try to make amends tomorrow afternoon or evening.

    However, as much as it pains me to say it, going off what other bludgers have been commenting this evening he seems well wide of the mark regarding both Russia and Taiwan. I’ve reserve comment about the Taiwan gambit until tomorrow, but I agree with Cronus’s comparison with the 19th century Ottomans: Russia is the sick man of 21st century Europe. However, whilst Russia’s conventional armed forces are little more than a Potemkin village writ large, I am not prepared to draw the same conclusion regarding its nuclear arsenal. A dying supernova that may prove its deadliest to the world in its final decline. Beware.

  32. Rossmcg says:
    Monday, November 7, 2022 at 8:21 pm
    Holmes’ comment about the slam dunk may be a sign to critics of the royal commission that she is partial but when I read the background to the comment I took it she is a well read student of history.

    And a few of her other questions to witnesses may suggest she is partial. Robodebt was a stuff up at so many levels and I think she takes her brief to find out how it happened and ensure nothing like it happens again very seriously.

    __________________________________________

    It’s important to remember that the Royal Commission is not into whether Robodebt was illegal. We know it was illegal. The solicitor-general’s advice makes it clear it was illegal and was accepted as such by the previous government (through gritted teeth).

    The questions are about what happened and how it happened. I think the Commissioner has been extremely courteous to all witnesses and her comments – at least those colourful ones – have been directed at processes or documents, not people.

  33. Socrates @ #1173 Monday, November 7th, 2022 – 8:36 pm

    Cat 5.25

    Thanks and a well argued response to White.

    Upon reflection I would say:
    – I agree with you and disagree with White on Russia. To me Russia is more like 19th Century Eurasia than a great power. It is a fading empire that might soon break up. China is the real threat IMO, not Russia.
    – I agree it is possible White is overstating the power of China. He is assuming that its economic power will translate to military power. In the long term I think that is likely, but in the short term that appears doubtful and long term is still unknown.
    – I still think our greatest risk is political disunity in USA. I take the point that democracy can beat autocracy as per Churchills view. (Corrupt autocracies never reform or remove themselves). I also take Cronus’ point that the US conventional forces are still very strong. But I am still struck at how badly US political leadership can lead them astray, as Afghanistan and Iraq have both demonstrated over 20 years.
    – So I don’t suggest we abandon the alliance with USA, but we should be prudently prepared to deal with our defence in isolation if needed.

    Thank you for your thoughtful reply, Soc. Much appreciated. 🙂

  34. Cronus @ #1164 Monday, November 7th, 2022 – 8:16 pm

    C@T

    I would agree too with your comments re India (from the Hugh White talk).
    At no stage that I can recall off hand at least has India ever (other than a couple of border skirmishes with Pakistan and China) seriously undertaken military intervention far less given a sense of becoming an international hegemon.

    Notwithstanding that it’s a nuclear nation with the world’s largest population, it has simply shown no desire whatsoever to undertake such a role. I think this too is a flaw in White’s analysis, at least based on India’s record.

    Thanks for that, Cronus. My impression of India’s nuclear capability is that it is more to be used as a deterrence, say to those countries who might have designs on taking some of its territory, eg China or Pakistan, as opposed to being used as tools of threat and aggression.

  35. Why on Earth anyone thinks we should be worried about mere potential aggression from China, when we can all see actual genocidal brutality from Russia against Ukraine happening right before our eyes, is beyond me.

    I was greatly disheartened by the West’s reticence in standing up to Assad in Syria, and to Putin in 2014. I am heartened by the West’s support for Ukraine this year. Let’s not get sidetracked now.

  36. Mavis @ #1160 Monday, November 7th, 2022 – 8:03 pm

    Boerwar:

    Monday, November 7, 2022 at 6:58 pm

    “Oh, like the weapons of mass destruction on Iraq?”, she said.’

    I’m unsure about the comment by Holmes as it could give rise to the perception that she’s partial, bearing in mind she was nominated as the chief justice of QLD by Palaszczuk. I wonder if she regrets it.

    ________________________________________

    Cat,

    Parts 1 & 2 of your thesis are very well argued. And while I’m not sufficiently informed of the subject matter, a Bravo Zulu to you.

    Thank you, Mavis. 🙂

    Sometimes the lights turn on upstairs and my brain whirrs into life. 😉

    Frankly, I just got riled up by some of the bully boys here who thought their ‘superior intelligence’ gave them license to call me the PB ‘village idiot’. I know I’m not and so there was only one way to show that.

  37. C@tmomma says:
    Monday, November 7, 2022 at 10:17 pm
    Mavis @ #1160 Monday, November 7th, 2022 – 8:03 pm

    Boerwar:

    Monday, November 7, 2022 at 6:58 pm

    “Oh, like the weapons of mass destruction on Iraq?”, she said.’

    I’m unsure about the comment by Holmes as it could give rise to the perception that she’s partial, bearing in mind she was nominated as the chief justice of QLD by Palaszczuk. I wonder if she regrets it.

    ________________________________________

    Cat,

    Parts 1 & 2 of your thesis are very well argued. And while I’m not sufficiently informed of the subject matter, a Bravo Zulu to you.
    Thank you, Mavis.

    Sometimes the lights turn on upstairs and my brain whirrs into life.

    Frankly, I just got riled up by some of the bully boys here who thought their ‘superior intelligence’ gave them license to call me the PB ‘village idiot’. I know I’m not and so there was only one way to show that.
    中华人民共和国
    Hey hey! That’s not the fighting C@t that I know!

    You don’t let ‘em get you down cobber. Everyone on here deserves a say. There is a Troll but I now scroll past her.

    You keep fighting and having your say me “Old China”.

  38. C@tmomma says:
    Monday, November 7, 2022 at 11:02 pm
    Thanks, Upnorth. I truly respect the opinions of straight shooters such as your good self.
    中华人民共和国
    No drama Cane Farmer.

  39. Upnorthsays:
    Monday, November 7, 2022 at 10:35 pm
    “You keep fighting and having your say me “Old China”.”

    Don’t come across ‘me old China’ much anymore. My personal favourite Australian slang for China plate or ‘mate’. But better still is the dual meaning where ‘China’ can also imply mate as it always takes pride of place in the home, either in the kitchen cabinet or hutch!

    Top notch Up North. And hats off to you C@t! I always appreciate your contribution here, regardless of whether what you say aligns with my own views.

  40. J J Hall says:
    Monday, November 7, 2022 at 11:37 pm
    Upnorthsays:
    Monday, November 7, 2022 at 10:35 pm
    “You keep fighting and having your say me “Old China”.”

    Don’t come across ‘me old China’ much anymore. My personal favourite Australian slang for China plate or ‘mate’. But better still is the dual meaning where ‘China’ can also imply mate as it always takes pride of place in the home, either in the kitchen cabinet or hutch!

    Top notch Up North. And hats off to you C@t! I always appreciate your contribution here, regardless of whether what you say aligns with my own views.
    中华人民共和国
    Good on you cobber. It’s a bit sad that my nippers wouldn’t know what me “China Plate” is. They have learnt however about the “Jack and Jill” cause I always get the “Bill” after tea at a restaurant (usually after my pudding). We then “hit the frog and toad” and make our way home.

    Though Mrs Upnorth with her Singaporean upbringing does get “snakey” when I ask what “Pub” we are staying in when we go on Holidays (they are hotels right!) and I carry my “port” with my togs in them.

    Once I even had to pay a “piano” (one grand) to stay in some joint for three days! Oh well. Happy wife – Happy Life.

    Anyway it’s a ripper to hear from you cobber. Hope your well. Going to hit the swag now.

  41. wranslide says:
    Monday, November 7, 2022 at 9:44 pm
    Cronussays:
    Monday, November 7, 2022 at 8:16 pm
    C@T

    I would agree too with your comments re India (from the Hugh White talk).
    At no stage that I can recall off hand at least has India ever (other than a couple of border skirmishes with Pakistan and China) seriously undertaken military intervention far less given a sense of becoming an international hegemon.

    ~~~~~

    Are you suggesting that China has such history? Or that it has shown a recent propensity to behave in such a fashion?

    Taiwan is recognised by most, including Australia, as part of China. The China that is governed by the CCP. That the CCP, as the party political representatives of the Chinese Govt would like Taiwan to return to it’s control is unsurprising. Hardly the stuff of a hegemon.
    ———————————————————————————————

    Whoa there, some serious jumping to conclusions.

    “Are you suggesting that China has such history? Or that it has shown a recent propensity to behave in such a fashion?”

    No, it doesn’t have such a history and nor did I say it did. Xi has however made it unambiguously clear that it intends retake Taiwan in the near future (I recall possibly 2027).

    “ That the CCP, as the party political representatives of the Chinese Govt would like Taiwan to return to it’s control is unsurprising. Hardly the stuff of a hegemon.”

    The term hegemon for refers to the extent that it describes a superpower willingly exerting dominant power and influence over another country, such that it even intends taking it by force. Remember, even if you/we ascribe to the theory that China ‘owns’ Taiwan, there are 23 million inhabitants that appear to disagree strongly enough to arm themselves to the teeth in defence. (Russia is a hegemon and it would argue it is simply retaking land in Ukraine that it is entitled to under its previous ownership as the USSR. The 44 million Ukrainian strongly disagree).

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