This week’s fortnightly rolling average result from Essential Research has both major parties up a point on the primary vote (the Coalition to 40%, Labor to 38%), both minor parties down a point (the Greens to 9%, Palmer United to 5%), and two-party preferred unchanged at 52-48 to Labor. The poll also has 57% saying the threat to Australia from terrorism has increased over the past few years with only 6% saying it has decreased, and 33% opting for stayed about the same; 56% approving of government spending to reduce the threat of terrorism versus 24% disapproving; 57% rating the contribution of multiculturalism to Australian society as positive versus 30% negative; 63% believing prospective migrants should not be rejected on the basis of religion versus 21% who say they should; and strong support for a greater emphasis on solar, wind and hydro power in providing for domestic energy, a neutral result for gas, and highly negative results for nuclear and especially coal.
Federal electoral news nuggets:
• John Ferguson of The Australian reports Senators Stephen Conroy and Kim Carr are facing opposition within their respective Right and Left factions over their determination to seek another term at the next federal election. Partly at issue is Labor’s affirmative action requirement that at least 40 per cent of winnable seats go to women. Under a party rule to take effect on January 1, a spill of all preselections will occur if the requirement isn’t met. Rosie Lewis of The Australian reports that some in the ALP believe the Carr and Conroy preselections are being fast-tracked to lock them in before the rule takes effect. Carr is quoted saying the requirement will be satisfied by giving the third position on the ticket to a woman, but the result of the last election suggests the winnability of a third seat for Labor is doubtful for as long as the existing electoral system remains in place.
• The Courier-Mail reports that“federal Liberal and National MPs unhappy with the performance of Nationals deputy leader Barnaby Joyce” are planning to thwart his succession to the Nationals leadership by drafting Lawrence Springborg, the Queensland Health Minister and former Opposition Leader. This would be achieved by having Springborg succeed Bruce Scott as member for Maranoa, a seat Joyce had his eye on last term as he sought to make his move from the upper house to the lower.
• Andrew Probyn of The West Australian reports a Labor internal poll of 600 respondents by UMR Research shows it leading 54-46 in the eastern Perth electorate of Hasluck, held for the Liberals by Ken Wyatt on a margin of 4.9%. Primary votes are cited of 40% for Labor and 37% for the Liberals. Aggregated polling for the three months after the budget, from May to July, is reported to show swings to Labor in WA of 12 points on the primary vote and 7.7% on two-party preferred.
• The Financial Review reports results from Coalition pollsters Crosby Textor showing a surge in support for the Renewable Energy Target, an increase in the salience of the environment as a political issue, and a decline for immigration.
94
If you were responding to me there (in your general reference to Greens), I cannot tell, you are wrong because I do not download films or music from the internet. I was just making a point about corporate behaviour.
P1
Your argument fails because you are ignoring the reality. I am not saying piracy is legal. I am saying it happens. I am also saying the reality if when the price is more reasonable the piracy drops.
The same may be true with theft for all I know. I am talking about the failed business model not the the piracy or I would be arguing for making it legal to copy to hearts content and I have not done that.
So your bringing up theft examples just shows you have no argument to the reality of what is happening. If people steal enough from a grocery shop that they have no stock left that business model has failed too,
That is not saying theft is ok,
Player One Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2014 at 2:57 pm @ 2
Non-commerical copyright infringement is not theft. If I steal your car I deprive you of part of your property – you are now poorer. If I photocopy a letter you send to a mate, I have infringed your copyright, but I have not deprived you of your property. You are not poorer as a result.
That’s why non-commercial infringement (and much commercial infringement*) is a civil matter, not a criminal matter.
Sometimes it’s argued that I have deprived you of revenue. However, that is not clearly so. My copying your letter is not proof that I would have been prepared to purchase it.
I fully support people being paid for their work. I have no problem with copyright holders enforcing their legal rights. However, copyright infringement is not theft. Claiming that it is is just industry spin.
* A business playing the radio in the office/workshop/store is infringing copyright. The media often use photos from members of the public without first obtaining permission. I don’t recall the proprietors, or those responsible for the infringements, ever being prosecuted under the criminal provisions of the act.
guytaur
[ If people steal enough from a grocery shop that they have no stock left that business model has failed too ]
Seriously? So looting is ok now too?
I don’t think it is me who has lost touch with reality here.
P1
😆 @ you
Desperate now. Thanks for proving you have no argument left
Sf
(1) Name one movie made by a Greens in Australia, and, if you can, include the criterion that it has to have made a decent profit.
(2) Name one item of defence expenditure openly and actively supported by the Greens in Australia.
(3) Demonstrate that the Greens, with 12% of the vote, own and operate around one tenth of the Australian economy.
As for my last point, the sanctimonious bit, just peruse the various posts on Bludger.
P1
[You could just watch something else.]
Not watch Game of Thrones???!!!! That’s just crazy talk!
PO
“”That’s why non-commercial infringement (and much commercial infringement*) is a civil matter, not a criminal matter.””
Give it a rest PO!.
Boerwar
[Greens are always happy not to make their own movies and to steal off others, happy not to do any fighting but to skive off others, happy not to create wealth through business but to tax it to buggery. And so on and so forth.
Plus, they get to enjoy all this creaming of other peoples’ efforts thrice: once, through enjoyment of the act of theft; second, through enjoyment of sampling what they steal; and, third by telling everyone what bastards everyone else are.]
Wow you reached a truly amazing level of stupid there… Can you go higher??
Oh yes!
[(1) Name one movie made by a Greens in Australia, and, if you can, include the criterion that it has to have made a decent profit.
(2) Name one item of defence expenditure openly and actively supported by the Greens in Australia.
(3) Demonstrate that the Greens, with 12% of the vote, own and operate around one tenth of the Australian economy.]
WOW!!! Stupid-land!
B.C.
[ Sometimes it’s argued that I have deprived you of revenue. However, that is not clearly so. My copying your letter is not proof that I would have been prepared to purchase it. ]
Fiddle faddle. If you copy a manuscript that I am trying to publish, you have stolen my intellectual property.
I agree that somewhere between a few scrawled lines of a letter I have penned to a friend and my magnum opus that I intended to publish and live off there is a line that can be drawn where one is a significant theft and one is not. But exactly where that line is is not at all clear. What if I had also intended to publish my own collected letters? If you steal enough of my letters to publish such a volume yourself, then you have also stolen some substantial intellectual property from me.
Well BW I certainly don’t download pirated movies or other stuff. Like others, I decline to pay Murdoch anything so any program that I’d have to pay him to watch, I don’t watch.
It hurts giving up the cricket but principles are principles.
guytaur
[ Thanks for proving you have no argument left ]
And you have repeatedly proven that you had none to start out with.
Boerwar would have us think that Dick Smith never ran a business…
1934pc
[ Give it a rest PO!. ]
Are you talking to me or to B.C? That comment was his, not mine.
[WeWantPaul
Well I break the law almost every day, some days I brazenly walk diagonally across roads in breach of the relevant law, some days I proceed in a motor vehicle at speeds exceeding the proscribed limit. But that is quite irrelevant to any discussion of the creeping criminalization of copyright infringement and the public policy debate that should have occurred and should occur now. Mindless repetitions of copyright holder spin should be a lot more embarrassing than jay walking.
I’m guessing you don’t make a living off intellectual property.]
As a matter of fact I have. Just not in one of the industries that have had limiting gouging distribution chains that selected a few artists and were probably necessary with 1980 technology but which are largely ridiculous in the current world.
I also studied law with a view to understanding public policy debates and you would have to be almost totally ignorant of the competing policy outcomes to keep banging on about stealing – just like the front a DVD but less interesting and with less facts.
Tom @ 46
You asked about 2013 Federal voting statistics compared against Victorian state seats. Not sure if there’s any single site that can give you that information but you could probably look up voting statistics per booth here and look under each polling booth:
http://results.aec.gov.au/17496/Website/SenateDivisionMenu-17496-VIC.htm
and check where the booths are located according to the boundaries set under the VEC:
http://www.ebc.vic.gov.au/finalElectoralBoundariesDownload.html
It will be a rough guide. It’s going to be a bit of work though, but good luck.
P1
No your last response to my post shows you have no argument. You are doing what Abbott does with science and ignoring facts. Just yell theft and think thats the end of it.
If you are running a business like that you will not be for long.
Re posting stuff on the internet and hacking. I think a good rule to follow would be not to post anything on the internet you wouldn’t mind seeing on the front page of tomorrow’s Telecrap.
Sorry, at 116, I placed the Senate results. The HoR results are here:
http://results.aec.gov.au/17496/Website/HouseDivisionMenu-17496-VIC.htm
Steve
Good point that I follow. However there is auto uploading nowadays for backup that catches people out.
Poor Hockey. Everyone is against him
http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbott-slaps-down-joe-hockey-after-stoush-over-wa-gst-anger-20140902-10bblr.html
Here are half a dozen films of the Greens supporting film producer and director Australian David Bradbury who has received five Australian Film Industry awards, and two Academy Award nominations.
1984: Nicaragua No Pasaran
1985: Chile Hasta Cuando
1986: Loggerheads
1987: South of the Border
1988: State of Shock
1993: Nazi Supergrass
1997: Jabiluka
2007: Survival School
2009: My Asian Heart[6]
2012: On Borrowed Time
kakuru, guytaur
Game of Thrones was the most pirated show in Australia but there were ways to have reduced piracy.
Do it like in the US or Canada and allow other medias to broadcast them, rather than allow exclusive rights. Through netflix and the lot, people are watching it there.
It’s not that people want to pirate, and neither do everyone want a Foxtel subscription just for the purpose of watching a handful of shows a month.
It’s a working business model if some broadcasters just stopped being too greedy. Anyhow, they still run a profit, but HBO could have earned a bit more if they stopped signing exclusive contracts.
I guess none of these people ever ran businesses either?
http://greens.org.au/donors
[And there has no doubt been intellectual property theft going on ever since!]
I think there is lot of doubt. What were the possible criminal offences under that enactment and for what wrongs were they imposed?
When was the first criminal prosecution for reading a book you hadn’t bought?
how many criminal prosecutions were there for recording songs from the radio onto a cassette in the 80’s or before? How many criminal prosecutions for recording TV shows and replaying them on early video players?
How many people were jailed for sitting down and typing out a book cover to cover?
Nice find Fredex!
That dumbo Boerwar never bothers to fact check!
guytaur
[ If you are running a business like that you will not be for long. ]
Your argument is that if you can bring a business down by stealing from it sufficiently, then it demonstrates that it had a flawed business model in the first place. And from this you seem to then jump to it being acceptable to break the law to do so.
As others have pointed out, all you are really seem to be doing is trying to justify your own unethical and illegal behavior.
[ Good point that I follow. However there is auto uploading nowadays for backup that catches people out. ]
Only the ignorant and ignorance is no defence.
Doesn’t Graeme Wood, founder of Wotif.com, and big supporter of the Greens, have a considerable networth?
He’s only the 163rd in the 2013 Rich 200 list though with roughly $200-300M. I guess he can’t make as much as mining magnates make. Shame the mining super profits tax will be repealed.
P1
No my argument is that any sensible business owner will charge a little less still making a profit, rather than have people in jail and no customer base.
Thats a good and bad business model. In the bad one their ends up being no business.
Reality and right and wrong do not come into it. What works, works.
[Game of Thrones was the most pirated show in Australia but there were ways to have reduced piracy.
]
It was largely made available for download through no conventional channels before foxtel made a thing of it and even then they have made a bucketload from selling DVDs, from the rights deal with foxtel (which foxtel would have priced taking downloads into account) and then the books which I had bought many years earlier were all given a second life and a further cash windfall.
There is a strong argument, if you see it entirely as valueless entertainment lacking all intellectual artistic and cultural value) that someone who has not paid should not watch.
There is a much weaker argument that those who watch without paying cause an actual economic loss. Thus then ongoing need to ramp up criminal sanctions.
Those of you trapped in the movie industry paradigm (money well spent on their part) if breaching intellectual property rights is a crime I assume you’d support broad criminal penalties for patent infringement?
Raaraa
Is Simon Sheikh worth much?
Just a few weeks back people were commenting here that the Greens voters average wage was actually the highest of all political persuasions… So I would think there’d be lots of business people that are Green.
guytaur
[ No my argument is that any sensible business owner will charge a little less still making a profit, rather than have people in jail and no customer base. ]
Yes, I believe there used to be quite a lot of businesses like that.
Peter Overton @PeterOverton 14m
Outrage at backroom government deal that will cut your super. Why you’ll have less when you retire. Details @9NewsSyd
[Fran Barlow
Posted Tuesday, September 2, 2014 at 5:17 pm | Permalink
Well BW I certainly don’t download pirated movies or other stuff. Like others, I decline to pay Murdoch anything so any program that I’d have to pay him to watch, I don’t watch.
It hurts giving up the cricket but principles are principles.]
I dips me lid to your integrity.
p1
Your 133 makes no sense. Expand
I’m late to the party. Has this happened yet?
[The government’s plan to hand environmental approvals to the states for projects such as coal mines and ports is set to be blocked in the Senate by the Palmer United party.
Clive Palmer has confirmed that his senators will vote against amending the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act to create “one stop shops” to assess developments.
The Coalition has already signed agreements with several states that would see them take on the assessment and then approval of developments that have a major impact upon the development.
But the PUP will stymie this handover by voting against the move on Tuesday. The government’s devolution of powers is also opposed by Labor and the Greens.]
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/sep/02/palmer-united-party-to-block-one-stop-shop-environmental-approvals?CMP=twt_gu
It come as a bit of a shock to Greens economists amongst the Bludgerati, but Dick Smith does not run one tenth of the Australian economy.
All the other posts from the Greens, in a vapid effort to defend their skiving, have failed to address the substance of my points, resorting instead to the usual person bashing.
zoidlord
[you’ll have less when you retire.]
A short simple message that Labor should repeat endlessly. Making sure to attach Abbott’s name to the message.
I don’t know about Costco in Australia, however its US parent gets the thumbs up for its enlightened attitude to treatment of its employees. Costco’s CEO understands that business prosperity depends on employees being happy in their jobs with higher salaries and greater security of tenure. Higher wages also lead to greater spending power in the economy.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-06-06/costco-ceo-craig-jelinek-leads-the-cheapest-happiest-company-in-the-world#r=rss
fredex
I intended feature films that people actually watched and which actually made money – not subsidised niche documentaries with Greens audiences.
Boerwar
I think the point we were disputing was this:
[ happy not to create wealth through business but to tax it to buggery]
Lots of Greens create wealth! as well as making films!
So will you at least acknowledge that you got those bits wrong?
The 1/10th of the Economy was just stupid talk, no?
Boerwar
[fredex
I intended feature films that people actually watched and which actually made money – not subsidised niche documentaries with Greens audiences.}
Ha! Making it up as you go along.
I think that Australian feature films that have made money without any public subsidy are as rare as rocking-horse poo, regardless of the political affiliations of the producers.
116 & 119
I was hoping that someone else had already done and published it.
It is too fiddly for me to be bothered to do.
Typical Greens.
They fart around with a few Greens supporters who are in the hundred million dollar league when Australia’s GDP is around $1.5 trillion.
On skiving from the economy, you guys are not doing well at all. So far you are no-where near finding Greens supporters who do 10% of Australia’s business.
On defence skiving not a single Greens has been able to come up with a single item of defence expenditure whole-heartedly, publicly and persistently supported by the Greens.
And on skiving off the movie makers, the only Greens supporter nominated by any Greens is a guy who makes niche documentary that no-one pays to watch.
Even the Greens efforts are personal abuse are copied from others.
Still, in your support for thieving the work of others, I give you guys ten out of ten for being both thieves and for being holier-than-thou about it.
[Peter Overton @PeterOverton 14m
Outrage at backroom government deal that will cut your super. Why you’ll have less when you retire. Details @9NewsSyd]
This is a sleeper at the moment but will become a significant political issue when people think about it.
Cormann as usual continued the “liberation” theme when people are made worse off under this government:
[“This is not an adverse, unexpected change as it will leave Australian workers with more of their own money pre-retirement which they can spend on paying down their mortgage, spend on other matters or save for their retirement through superannuation as they see fit,” Finance Minister Mathias Cormann told the Senate.
ABC ]
P1
Here is more reality for you
[The MPAA tried to hide a piracy subreddit, but only made it more popular]
http://www.theverge.com/2014/6/26/5845636/mpaa-accidentally-made-piracy-subreddit-more-popular
[ p1
Your 133 makes no sense. Expand ]
Read it a few more times. The truth will probably dawn on you. Maybe.
P1
Nope it makes no sense. You will hve to be clearer.