Long live the king

Best of luck to Barack Obama as well. However, the truly momentous and inspirational aspect of yesterday’s result was my almost perfect prediction of it, as published in Crikey last Friday. Obama has carried the erstwhile red states of Iowa, New Mexico, Colorado, Virginia, Ohio, Nevada, Florida and Indiana, with two states coming down to the wire: Missouri, where McCain leads by 5868 votes (0.2 per cent), and North Carolina, where Obama leads by 14,053 (0.4 per cent). I tipped Obama to gain all of these states and no more. I gather late counting of declaration votes is unlikely to change any leads, so it appears those 0.2 per cent of voters in Missouri have stood between me and my moment of destiny. Better luck next time, I guess. To those who tipped McCain victories or record-breaking Obama blowouts and find themselves wondering what my secret is, one simple piece of advice: believe the polls (or Intrade if you prefer – it will usually tell much the same story). They may not be perfect, but they will outperform your own “informed conjecture” well over 50 per cent of the time, no matter how clever you think you are.

If the last two states play out as expected, the final result will be 364 electoral votes for Obama against 174 for McCain, pending one complication: Nebraska, which along with solidly Democratic Maine divides its college votes by congressional district. Two of the three districts have stayed Republican, but in a third Obama trails by just 569 votes, and thus stands a chance to make it 365-173. In any event, the joint winners of the informal Poll Bludger tipping contest (thanks to Juliem for conducting this) will be David Walsh and Ron, who I gather will win a tie-breaker ahead of fellow 364 Club members Grog and Peter Fuller.

Finally, our good friends at UMR Research have published qualitative polling on Australians’ attitudes to the President-elect. Those who harbour an unfashionable element of cynicism about the great man might want to keep a sick bag handy.

Author: William Bowe

William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, has existed in one form or another since 2004, and is one of the most heavily trafficked websites on Australian politics.

780 comments on “Long live the king”

Comments Page 15 of 16
1 14 15 16
  1. Steve 699

    I don’t know if that cost link is entirely fair. Some of that money may yet be recovered. Still, if thats right, it equates to $14000 US per head for every US citizen, or $82000 US for every moron who voted Bush into office in the first place.

    I can’t help thinking this is going to start to lead to some (well deserved) anger in theyounger generation. They will eventually realise that they are going to be paying for the excesses of their elders through the tax system for a good decade.

  2. BTW, before any repugnants try that line again that it was the CRA that caused the crisis and it wasn’t their fault, Paul Krugman as a link to a great analysis that proves the point. Essentially, the whoole US housing bubble really took off after these dervative backed loans became commonplace. The share of the US housing market made up of Fannie/Freddie backed loans was actually declining after 2003.

    So the voters got it right -it was the free-marketeers fault for letting it happen.

  3. The Hawaii Senate Seat may be competitive if Linda Lingle, the GOP (and popular) governor of Hawaii stands for the seat. That said, she would almost certainly face one of the Democratic congressman for Hawaii who always get re-elected, so it would be an interesting race.

    Martinez barely won in 2004 in a GOP year. It’s a swing state and if the Dems pick a decent candidate (more easily said than done), he could be in trouble. Open seats are almost always interesting, particularly if there is controversy over one of the candidates – which may well be the case if Beau Biden is the candidate in DE.

    Other potential incumbents who could be in trouble are Murkowski in AK (although the Dems would have to find another good candidate to run, now that it looks like Begich will win) and Brownback (who is retiring) in KS if Sebelius decides to run.

    That said, Gregg in NH seems (at this very early stage) to be the GOP incumbent most at risk purely because of the likelihood of the highly popular Gov. Lynch running against him in 2010…

  4. ltep @ 697,

    If someone’s ambition is so overriding that it spills over into and affects decisions in other areas of their life, that is someone I don’t want anywhere near the seat of power. If I were Russian (which I’m not), I would feel equally as passionate about Putin staying OUT of power [ as I hear that they are working on changing the laws, influenced by him, so he can get back INTO power ]. Someone who is that ambitious, irregardless of sex, is dangerous.

    And as for the aspect of “knowing when it is time to get out of a marraige”, I’ve been there myself. I had a failed first one. I know what it feels like when your self respect is at rock bottom. Been there, done that and that is why I can make an informed statement about whether or not HC should have left him in the middle of the ML scandal.

  5. GG
    “Finns/Ron @ 694,Love the Macchu Piccu travelogue. I never understood how wise the Peruvian locals were. It is like we three wisemen are the prophets pointing the way in that timeless land.
    Those guinea pigs reminded me of the Gilligan’s Island crew”
    Yes GG Amigo , a task delegated by Macchu Piccu dynasties to only th select as prophets , yes of th famed “knowledge trees” , of Apo King of all Peruvian mountains blessings , of Dio sacrifices and of Inca’s ultimate culture disdains… for th liberal elitists …and still they could not see ‘th way’ , and yet nor could th Gilligans , to there fates do they

  6. Steve

    That NYT article was dated 17/11 , you posted it 18/11 , and i’ve tried to access it just into th 19/11 but itsd archived , they’ve done that to me before too , must be a 48 hour window I presume

    Do you recall which States hardest hit ? Maybe in th South and heavy industrialised like MI , PA, IN etc ?

    I also recall alot of foreclosures ar in thnic and black poor areas , suckedinto dream of home ownershiip by parachute interest & repayment deals , and now just walking away

    US has reel problems , recsssion but both massive public debt and also massive trading defict and no incentive to agree to Doha deal on trade

  7. Ron, archived? It was a great piece of writing and is archived here.

    [Facing Deficits, States Get Out Sharper Knives

    Published: November 16, 2008
    LOS ANGELES — Two short months ago lawmakers in California struggled to close a $15 billion hole in the state budget. It was among the biggest deficits in state history. Now the state faces an additional $11 billion shortfall and may be unable to pay its bills this spring.
    The astonishing decline in revenues is without modern precedent here, but California is hardly alone. A majority of states — many with budgets already full of deep cuts and dependent on raiding rainy-day funds or tax increases — are scrambling to find ways to get through the rest of the year without hacking apart vital services or raising taxes.
    Some governors, including Arnold Schwarzenegger in California and David A. Paterson in New York, have called special legislative sessions to deal with the crisis.
    Others are demanding hiring freezes and across-the-board cuts. A few states are finding their unemployment insurance funds running dry, just as the ranks of out-of-work residents spike.
    The plunging revenues — the result of an unusual assemblage of personal, sales, capital gains and corporate taxes falling significantly — have poked holes in budgets that are just weeks and months old and that came about only after difficult legislative sessions.
    “The fiscal landscape,” said H. D. Palmer, a spokesman for the California Department of Finance, “is fundamentally altered from where it was six weeks ago.”
    In Michigan, to reduce overtime costs, fewer streets will be salted this winter. In Ohio, where the unemployment rate is above 7 percent, the state may need a federal loan for the first time in 26 years to cover unemployment costs. In Nevada, which is almost totally dependent on sales taxes and gambling revenues, a health administrator said the state may be unable to pay claims in a few months.
    In California, Mr. Schwarzenegger, a Republican, and state legislators are preparing to do battle over a proposed 1.5-cent sales tax increase, while in New York, Mr. Paterson, a Democrat, has proposed $5.2 billion worth of savings, principally cuts to Medicaid and education.
    Even states where until recent months natural resource production has provided a buffer — and fat surpluses — are experiencing a sudden reversal of fortunes as oil prices have declined.
    “Frankly, I thought 2001 was really awful,” said Scott D. Pattison, the executive director of the National Association of State Budget Officers, referring to the last big economic downturn. “It is even worse now.”
    He added, “This fiscal year will be really bad, and what is unfortunate is that I can’t see how 2010 won’t be bad too.”
    In keeping with recent economic trends, the states with the worst problems are those where housing booms morphed into a large-scale mortgage crisis over the last two years.
    The current-year budget gap in Rhode Island represents over 11 percent of the state’s entire general fund, in large part because of the high number of subprime loans. The story is similar in Arizona, California, Florida and Nevada.]

  8. Here’s some astounding news that will set the cat among the pigeons. Just when the US congress is split about whether to bail out the major car manufacturers, China might leap up and buy two of the big ones.

    [Chinese carmakers SAIC and Dongfeng have plans to acquire GM and Chrysler, China’s 21st Century Business Herald reports today. A National Enquirer the paper is not. It is one of China’s leading business newspapers, with a daily readership in the 3 millions. The paper cites a senior official of China’s Ministry of Industry and Information Technology– the state regulator of China’s auto industry– who dropped the hint that “the auto manufacturing giants in China, such as Shanghai Automotive Industry Corporation (SAIC) and Dongfeng Motor Corporation, have the capability and intention to buy some assets of the two crisis-plagued American automakers.” These hints are very often followed with quick action in the Middle Kingdom.]


  9. Amigo GG & Ronnie, yes, the Native Peruvians were indeed very wise people. Contrary to popular myth, Maccu Picchhu was not a summer palace for the Inka Royalty nor a refuge to run away from the Spanish Conquistadors. MP was a built by the people, for the people and of the people. It was a working farm and more importantly it was the original “fridge” where the people can store their corns and other produce long term because of its chosen location and suitable climate.

    The Spanish Conquistadors in fact knew of its existence but decided not to bother about it because there was no gold at MP. They went after the gold of the Inka Royalty. The place was abandoned by the locals because the the Spanish Conquistadors were getting too close and they were killing and raping.

    I also think that i should put Diog out of his misery for my MP statement that “Diog, you were wrong”. If you recall, there was a mysterious meeting during the Primary between Obama and Hillary at the home of Sen. Senator Feinstein. Nobody was able to figure out what the meeting was about. Well, a deep-throat told me that it was during this meeting that Obama confessed his love for Hillary and that he is a Clintonite.

    [Barack Obama’s serious flirtation with his one-time rival, Hillary Clinton, over the post of secretary of State has been welcomed by everyone from Henry Kissinger to Bill Clinton as an effective, grand gesture by the president-elect. It’s not playing quite as well, however, in some precincts of Obamaland. From his supporters on the progressive wing of the Democratic Party, to campaign aides of the soon-to-be commander-in-chief, there’s a sense of ambivalence about giving a top political plum to a woman they spent 18 months hammering as the compromised standard-bearer of an era that deserves to be forgotten.

    “These are people who believe in this stuff more than Barack himself does,” said a Democrat close to Obama’s campaign. “These guys didn’t put together a campaign in order to turn the government over to the Clintons.”]


    There you are Amigos, we might have lost the battle, but we have won the war and Diog, you were wrong, again.

  10. Another Clintonite hits the Obama road.

    [“President-elect Obama has decided to tap Eric Holder as his attorney general, putting the veteran Washington lawyer in place to become the first African-American to head the Justice Department, according to two legal sources close to the presidential transition,” Newsweek’s Michael Isikoff reports.

    President Reagan nominated him to a D.C. judgeship and he was later tapped by President Clinton to serve as D.C.’s U.S. attorney. In 1997, Clinton elevated him to the No. 2 job in the Justice Department, and he briefly served as acting attorney general in the Bush administration while nominee John Ashcroft was being confirmed.]


  11. [Been there, done that and that is why I can make an informed statement about whether or not HC should have left him in the middle of the ML scandal.}

    Its absolutely none of your business how an individual chooses to handle their marriage. How can you possibly know what Hillary’s relationship with Bill is based on? Why is it your business?

    Plenty of people stay in marriages for political reasons, men and women. Men have been using their wives and children as photo opportunities for a long time with very little comment. Yet its only women who deserve scorn?

    The whole ‘ambition’ line is thrown into the faces of women time and again, for instance claiming they are selfish and not fit to lead if they put their job over their children or having children. As far as I see it there’s absolutely nothing wrong with being ambitious and it’s sort of a prerequisite for having top jobs.

  12. [
    As far as I see it there’s absolutely nothing wrong with being ambitious and it’s sort of a prerequisite for having top jobs.

    You’ve left out the operative word “too” in regards to ambitious.

    🙂 thanks ltep, agree to disagree on this one

  13. Thanks Dio, you have neatly compiled all the happy US news today 🙂

    Looks like Washington will stay Palin-free for another 2 years+. To paraphrase David Lange, she could move from Wasilla to Washington and lower the average IQ of both towns.

    I must admit though, regardless of our disagreements on CLinton for SOS, I have greater misgivings about sticking with Leiberman as committee chair. A question to those who know the US system – are committee chair appointments for fixed terms, or can they be kicked out if their performance is unsatisfactory? They have to hold something over red-Joe’s head, or he will continue to mis-behave.

  14. Mitt Romney says the auto industry can go jump into the Great Lakes ….. very brave statement coming from a politician with a Michigan background AND with future presidential ambitions as well …

    I love cars, American cars. I was born in Detroit, the son of an auto chief executive. In 1954, my dad, George Romney, was tapped to run American Motors when its president suddenly died. The company itself was on life support — banks were threatening to deal it a death blow. The stock collapsed. I watched Dad work to turn the company around — and years later at business school, they were still talking about it. From the lessons of that turnaround, and from my own experiences, I have several prescriptions for Detroit’s automakers.


  15. Amigo FINNS

    #716 “I also think that i should put Diog out of his misery for my Macchu Piccu statement that “Diog, you were wrong”. That mysterious meeting during the Primary between Obama and Hillary at the home of Sen. Senator Feinstein. Nobody was able to figure out what the meeting was about. Well, a deep-throat told me that it was during this meeting that Obama confessed his love for Hillary and that he is a Clintonite.”

    “Macchu Piccu statement ” Litle does Diog realize that whilst put out of his “HRC love” misery on one hand , those signs “Diog, you were wrong” still adorn th Peruvuan mountains around
    Macchu Piccu , at th Mionumetn incentre town and at ht gates of th “knowledge trees” …meaning visitors & tourists year in year out will wonder how this Diog could hav got it so wrong …and wonder whether he is a fallen ancient elitist God that Apo th Peruvian God of gods had despatched for eternal infamy

  16. Ronster

    The Incan God of Knowledge, Truth and Light (Diobama) has been invoked to and he’s going to pay a visit to those “Knowledge Trees” and sort out those sacrilegious signs.

    The Truth Will Out!

  17. Diog , as a South Australian you guys ar well behind th times and latest News , so sorry to let you breaking news …..but Apo king God of all Peruvian mountains chained Diobama to th gates of th “knowledge trees”……right next to th sign “Diog, you were wrong”

    Actualy there ar so many of these “Diog, you were wrong” signs dotted around Macchu Piccu that kids ar erecting clones of them by th day Th originals of course carry th Amigo moniker……..and you can tank benevolence of GG for interceding in our ultimate plan to attach a photo of your beloved Hillary on each of them

  18. Diog, please be careful, the location of those two “knowledge trees” was a well kept secret of the Inkas. In has been well protected by a local Inka secret society ala “the Templar Knights” of the Da Vinci Code. I have to pledge never to reveal their location upon the guinea pig blood before i was allowed to take the photo.

    The Truth Will out indeed!

  19. Ron,

    Ah yes, I have always thought that Hillary would make the perfect “Big Brother” picture.

    We have always been at War with Eurasia and all that.

  20. Ah yes , no doubt Obama will make pilgimage to th “knowledge tree” of Maccu Picchu , and pay due respectful homage…….and yet he also will wonder about that dio guy in th signs dotted around

  21. Leiberman was elected as an “independent” having defeated an endorsed Democrat in 2006 , and since then has been anything but helpful And th Dems make ‘reward’ , a poor decison , and what message does that send to other Democrat Senators & Congressmens

    As mentioned earlier , Dems will hav 57 in Senate (maybe 58 with MN) without Lievberman , and would hav to lose an unlikely 7 or 8 out of 16 up for electon in 2010 to lose Senate control after 2010 (and then almost certainly win back Libermans seat in 2012)

    …this is consesus too many steps too far , sometimes you should make a stand I mean Chairman of this important committee which th Dems having th majority can decie by a Senate resolution to decide whoever they choose often this goes by seniorority , well Lieberman has no seniorority in th Democrat Party as he is not an elected member thereof

  22. Here are two stories that illustrate just how deep the recession the US is in might be. One is about imports piling up at US container ports because nobody want them.

    The other points out just how many US jobs might be lost if GM, Ford and Chrysler go down. The number is 1.5 million to 2 million jobs lost:

    Despite this, the current government is ideologically opposed to bailing out auto manufacturers or mortgagees, despite already spending over $100 billion bailing out the trading banks that caused the problem in the first place:

    The double standard is glaring. Given that the only counter-arguments require a knowledge of arcane economic theory that is being debated even by economists, I don’t understand why teh republicans don’t see this will cost them votes. In future elections, not only can the democrats point out that the mess happened under republican administration, but they blocked attempts to help those whow were harmed by it.

    Of course, economically, the hole Obama is left with now is looking pretty deep.

  23. Well I note its World Philosophy Day, whatever that means:

    Happy world day to me! On the plus side, I saw a recent article by Kristof in NY Times that Obama has a “favourite philosopher”, which marks a change from his predecessor:

    Looks like stupid is no longer fashionable. On the down side, Neibuhr is not a philosopher – he was a theologian, and never formally studied philosophy, though he took a well educated and rational approach to religeon. It is an unfortunate fact that the number of people who actually understand what formal philosophy is, is very few.

  24. FORD/GM and Lieberman …there is an unfortunate connection

    42/13 Democrat caucus voted to let lieberman keep Homeland chair , yet this guy openly campaigned for McCain , criticised Obama during that campaign , even often flying with McCain on his campaign plane , even further actualy spoke for McCain at th GOP convention…an “independent” Senator , hardly ….poor decsion given Democrats hav 57 Senators (incl Sanders) without Lierberman and maybe MN ot add….if Dems had 51 Senators of th 100 , pragmetism reigns , but tis is cynicism and foolish I feel

    Ford/GM cynicaly puting there hand out ffro monies clealy earmarket for th financial systems rescue….not other Industries hurt by downturn and/or poor management Plenty of non auto Industries need help at present but bailout is not for that purpose

    IF one is looking at US wide industry assistance , including auto thats a seporate issue and without huge job losses as a blackmail Problem is Lieberman and his Congress cohorts who hav pork barrelled this Industry for decades with sweet hart deals meaning they could “survive” building petrol guzzlers against gravity…th gravity that consumers wanted smaller cars (so Japan , Korea etc who did so bnefited) , th gravity because they ar CC shockers , and th gravity because they continued US dependence on Arab Sheiks and there oil , and th gravity that this contributed to US trade deficits….ckickens ar home to roost…and US Govt is trillions in debt…and GM/Ford needed to transfer to CC friendley and smaller cars decade plus ago and now hav no money & neither does there Govt (th Chinese do , but thats a politcal dynamite investment)

    Unfortunately , with a 10 trillion debt , 3 .3 trillion Obama tax cuts promised (although maybe will get defferred abit , a 5.1 trillion off budget 2 Fannies debt , increasing trade deficit debts on trade , and with recesion looming less revenues ….where is money to come from , and how will it get financed

    I had a theory you run out of time before you run out of money , but US seemed to hav reversed that , will need to run reel quick now & be lucky as there is red inkk everywhere

  25. and with blue dog Dems and moderate Republicon Senators and other mish mash of Senate voting anyway , lets see how many times Liebermans solitary vote (pro a Dems Bill) is th decider in next 4 years (till his 2012 re-electon) , suggest never

  26. I notice that the Dear Leader is heading off to Lima, Peru for the Annual APEC Leader Conference. Curiously, the route he is taking is via Honolulu, Acapulco and Lima that would take 32 hours. If he is taking Sydney-Santiago-Lima, it would only take 18 hrs. But Honolulu and Acapulco do have their attractions.

    The leaders of APEC could benefit form visiting the “Knowledge Tree” of Maccu Picchu that the Amigos have been advocating for the poor “you were wrong” Diog. Under the KT, they could reflect upon the achievements and wisdom of the ancient Peruvians that man, man made and nature can harmoniously co-exist together.

  27. Ron

    The Ford GM situation is even worse than that. GM in particualr have a huge unfunded liability to provide health care plans and retirment benefits to their large workforce. As a result they don’t have enough money tin invest in developing new models themselves. Terrible management as you say, for even more reasons than you list.

    The trouble is that there is a good reason to want to keep them running (see some posts on Krugmans blog) because the govt really would spend more on unemployment payments than the cost of the aid. But they ought to insist on strict conditions. As a minimum these giants could break up, with profitible sidelines sold off.

  28. This is obscene. They can have it.

    [Dubai is throwing a multi-million-dollar extravaganza on Thursday to launch a luxury hotel on an artificial palm-shaped island, despite the bite from the global financial crisis.

    More than 2000 world celebrities are due to attend the event which has been dubbed by the local press as “the party of the decade.”]


  29. [Honolulu and Acapulco do have their attractions]

    A stupid insinuation which could only be written by someone who knows nothing at all about Kevin Rudd, who will undoubtedly spend the whole trip working, as will his staff.

  30. The reason the Dem Senate Caucus have let Lieberman off is that Obama asked them to, so all you Obamanauts should vent your spleen at him. Obama is putting party unity and consensus-building ahead of pretty revenge, which is exactly what he said he would do, remember? Will he give McCain the Pentagon? I wouldn’t be at all surprised.

  31. “so all you Obamanauts should vent your spleen at him.”

    As a consistent critic of Obama for months I don’t made th grade as an Obamanaut , however on this occasion I do not hold him “responsible” I was aware of Obama’s ‘support’ for Lieberman staying in th Caucus made a week before th Caucus vote , and Harry Reids subsequent (after decison) comment it was in ‘respect’ for Obama’s wish for consensus etc

    huilst Obama’s public preemptive comment made it politcaly hard for Dems 55 Caucus to go against th new POTUS theme , I tink they should hav seeing both now hav put judgement & standards on line for someone (Lieberman) who is essence of cynicism & disloyalty post 2005 , and for little/no voting value Th last Labor Senator “rat” taking Senate “chair” from howard would hardly hav been welcomed back into Labor fold

    Dems and Obama will be lucky to see a tangible or intangible reel politcal “divdend”….and worse , if Lieberman jumps out of line in future th politcal costs I feel will hav more than exceeded perceived benefits But its done now

  32. Yes Socrates agree , and unfortunately there is pre th Bailout an existing bi partisan 25 billion “retooling’ aid program on table , but Big 3 want more $$ , and do need it to ‘survive’

    Other concern is both th product size and/or its power sourse is not a 21st Century future , and nor is th past “Washington” channelling of unproductive monies or even blind eye to overstated mpg type regulation measures Unfortunately growth down sizing of an econamy multiplies th problem challenges , but I’d start with new managemnt at least as tax payers price of support

    An odd figure that stuck in my mind from Bailout discussions was a report then of US govt unfunded pension etc liabilitys of 51 trillion , never checked it further as thought well even discounting by 50% exaggeration is mind boggling ….and economicaly unsustainable as it will hav to be paid sooner or later

    PS/ FINNS , fatal attraction of Honolulu politcaly as you say will be Press cameramen taking just one shot at a breakfast of Rudd there , with a caption of where breakfast is (leaving innuendo foer reader to digest) , rather than reality

  33. Adam:

    Just as the public whines about parliamentarians pensions and former PM’s benefits after leaving office – why they want government treated like an ordinary job i don’t know – they claim that overseas trips are just junkets – its no use telling them you’ll be stuck in long boring meetings

  34. Consider Rudd’s schedule this last week: flew Canberra-Washingtion for the G20. Two very long days of meetings in Washington. Flew back to Canberra. A very long day of Cabinet then meeting 300 mayors all wanting money. Flies Canberra-Lima, just about the longest flight on the planet, more long days of meetings, flies Lima-Canberra, back in time for Cabinets and meet Parliament next week. You can accuse Rudd of sheer madness with this kind of schedule, but to accuse him of junketting is just stupid, and quite offensive. I’m talking to you, Finnegans.

  35. I tink you’ve made th mistake of implying th politcal innuendo Finns was actualy highlighting th ‘oz’ Press may seize on

    Taking an extra 14 hours to get to Peru and going via Honolulu and Acapulco is a fact as stated by Finns , and probably Rudd preparing for th APEC Leader Conference away from distractions of ‘oz’ But as Finns said “But Honolulu and Acapulco do have their attractions” is exactly how it can be “presented” in th Media , and difficult to rebut

  36. Amigo Ronnie, i seem to remember that i used to have a parrot, devoid of sense of humuor, and demanded that i do certain thing. Deja vu.

  37. WTF has been going on here while I’ve been gone? Ron and Finns have become Obamanauts. Adam is praising Obama. And the Amigos are getting scolded by a very sensitive Adam for pointing out that Rudd is visiting the Knowledge Trees in Peru via Acupulco and Hawaii. Has this thread become a parallel universe?

    Geithner will be announced Treasury Sec.
    Richardson is Commence Sec.

    And Hillary will accept SOS according to the NYT. That’s a very impressive Cabinet.

Comments Page 15 of 16
1 14 15 16

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *