That lucid analysis I promised two posts ago will still have to wait another day. In the meantime, I have added a new “photo finish” thread below for Dickson, where Labor’s lead is an uncomfortable 389 votes, to those already existing for Swan, Solomon, McEwen, Macarthur, La Trobe, Herbert, Bowman and the Victorian Senate. It would also be remiss of me not to note the very sad passing of Matt Price, taken far too young at 46.
I agree that ALP has moved to the right – and it’s not something I necessarily support, but that’s because that is what the elecorate wants. To claim the French didn’t know what they are voting for is as ridiculous as saying Australians didn’t want to vote Rudd in. Electoral rejection is electoral rejection.
I have French friends who have moved to London because they perceive there is not future for them in France – hence the electoin of Sarkozy. You mightn’t like it, but it’s the truth.
Its slightly more “precise” then describing oneself as a”prgressive Leftist.” Really being a leftist is about feel good politics, its about saving forests, progressive gender politics etc. Anything other than addressing the real causes of inequality in society. It is classic ruling class safety valve politics. Let them have an aggressive environmental policy, but dont touch business taxation rates.
Time i went also see ya comrade Gary. The right wing bloggers can pick over my carcase.
I’m not talking about business taxation – where do you guys get off?
I know you’re not talking about business tax rates! Thats the whole point! Concentrate on saving whales, campaigning for same sex marriage rights and other worthy progressive leftist policies, but dont look at middle class welfare, or regressive tax policy or anything that might actually unsettle the ecomic elites
I did say I was for more investment in public education and health, the removal of the private healt rebate. I haven’t mention whales, yet you haven’t said what you stand for. Just what you think I do and don’t.
Gary,
Apologies for my late reply – I wasn’t ignoring you/dodging you, I was on a call.
The Labor Party has been dominated by the “progressive left” since the 60s – certainly since Whitlam and Dunstan. Most of the time these governments have been able to balance progressive social concerns such as women’s rights, the environment, Aboriginal rights, gay rights, etc, with economic policies that promote growth and a moderate redistribution of wealth.
The ALP is not a socialist party, nor has it ever been. Gough did not introduce socialist health care in the sense that he nationalised its provision and abolished the role of the private sector. He more than anyone welded the coalition of ‘progressive (read middle class and aspirant middle class) leftists’ and the working class (who from around the same time were increasingly under attack from ‘real’ leftists – ie Marxists – who felt the white working class could no longer fulfil its historical role as the new ascendant class in a revolutionary situation).
I too went to university thanks to Gough. But he didn’t send us there so we could come out wearing overalls and keep up the class struggle against the bourgeoisie. He sent us there so we could become the bourgeoisie (or least its intellectual/white collar wing), but hopefully with some vestiges of class consciousness instilled in us by our parents, so we would continue to support social justice in areas beyond those of class.
If you believe in the public ownership of the means of production, distribution and exchange, then that’s fine. But very few other people do. Very few other people in the Labor Party have believed that for years. Whitlam, Dunstan, Cain (junior or senior) didn’t. To compare Rudd to a mythical ‘real’ Labor which never existed by your standards is flawed. We have what we have. It’s a damn sight better than what we had before. So let’s make the most of it.
It’s The Ventening!
Oh the joy! I’m still floating!
Official swearing-in of new government later this week. Until then it’s all so much like a tantalising dream.
And without working families you have no economy and without the economy you have no resources for your agenda.
You know, thinking about this. Your not likely to be in a union if you don’t work. Labor is about unionism, unionism is about workers, or working families ( assuming workers are part of a family).
So by what right has someone like you got to claim that labor government has to push a socialist agenda, and claim that if they don’t push that agenda that they are not “labor” governments. I would have though they should push the agenda that gives workers the best outcome. If the majority of workers have rejected socialism then socialism is not the agenda.
Marky Marky
If you haven’t heard it already, you’ll probably find some support for your views in last Sunday’s RN Background Briefing. Paul Kruger gives a brilliant analysis of America’s move from a middle-class nation till the 70s to a 1920s-style economy and heading fast towards the Robber Baron era. He dates this to the emergence of Reaganism and race-religious politics. And he points out that none of it was economically necessary – the European and Asian countries have not had to go down the identical path and are doing as well (does a nice contrast with France).
Well worth ipodding.
Mind you, Kruger was one of Clinton’s gurus (I think) – so Paul K and others have a point: there is probably no going back to Keynesianism. That doesn’t mean that the world wouldn’t be a lot better place if there were a few more like Keynes, Galbraith and Kruger in charge of the economic machinery. Economics is a pretty tough gig, but it does need people dedicated to making things better.
Howard borrowed heavily from the US model, especially via Karl Rove. The first term of Rudd is likely to be softly, softly. But I have a feeling that he and Gillard (probably a lot more like Tanner and Combet) want to make a serious impact for the better in the long run.
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I truly hope that some of the Torys that come to this site got to see the above exchange. A truly accurate picture of every single tutorial i went to in uni. The hard left arguing with the left while the right sits there trying to work out what these nutbags are going at each other for.
Good times.
When did I ever say that Labor had to be socialist? I said that I was a socialist! The fact of the matter is that what we have today is a situation where the public have a choice between competing managerial elites and that’s about all. we have adopted the sad system of the USA, the politics of Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum. would this be the first time in history that the leaders of both main parties were millionaires? Assuming of course that The Rainmaker wins the Liberal leadership. Whitlam was not a socialist, but he had ideals and he had a program. What passes for a program today? Throwing a couple of billion dollars around. Lets give every kid (regardless of need) a computer etc. It is very hard to cast a vote for Labor in this environment. Most people have cast a vote against Howard and his reactionary policies and Labor would do well to note this!
You want proof Lexie Downer knew about bribes in Iraq?? Give us 6 months. Now that the Libs can’t hide behind FOI laws, the truth will come out.
Are you afraid of the truth Glen?
“1364
Yo ho ho Says:
November 27th, 2007 at 8:46 am
I truly hope that some of the Torys that come to this site got to see the above exchange. A truly accurate picture of every single tutorial i went to in uni. The hard left arguing with the left while the right sits there trying to work out what these nutbags are going at each other for.
Good times.”
That’s cos the right is too thick to follow arguments over anything more substantial than what jumper to put on – certainly if those Tories who come on here are anything to go by. And for what it’s worth, I can see a great deal of merit in what both Gary and marky marky are saying; it’s just that ultimately I disagree. That’s what politics is about. People arguing over stuff.
If you think the Tories should be expecting something else on a site, I heartily recommend
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=1JynBEX_kg8
And it might be a comfort to them in their time of trial.
[She’ll cream Comrade Julia in Parliament ] 756 Glen
LOL! If she could do that, she wouldn’t have to go for the Deputy’s job. They’d make her leader, unopposed. Maybe Keating was right.
Glen, in case you didn’t notice during the campaign, they used Gillard to debate Hockey, Abbott, Downer and anyone else game to show their head. She trounced the lot of them. After a while it became pretty clear she was Rudd’s chief troubleshooter. Even helped out Nicola Cornes.
Did you notice at their joint press conferences that Gillard was there like a bodyguard – sizing up the vibes and where the trouble might come from. I think Insiders might’ve showed a clip of her eyes searching out the whole room.
She’s very controlled, but she’s good. Take her on at your peril.