Miscellany: federal Liberal preselections and new Senate numbers (open thread)

Liberal contenders jockey to succeed the late Jim Molan in the Senate and contest the forthcoming by-election for the Melbourne seat of Aston.

We’re not likely to see anything on the polling front this week, but there is other electoral news to relate following recent parliamentary vacancies and party defections:

• The Sydney Morning Herald reports preselection nominees to fill the late Jim Molan’s New South Wales Liberal Senate vacancy are likely to include Andrew Constance, former state minister and unsuccessful candidate for Gilmore, and Fiona Scott, who held the lower house seat of Lindsay from 2013 to 2016, together with reported front-runner Dallas McInerney, chief executive of Catholic Schools NSW. Constance and Scott are associated with the moderation faction, while McInerney is a conservative. Mary-Lou Jarvis, lawyer and Woollahra councillor, has also written to senior party figures staking her claim as a qualified woman and the third candidate on the ticket at last year’s election, while also criticising the party’s apparent intention to leave the position vacant until after the state election on March 25.

• The Australian reports the Liberal hierarchy’s hopes of fielding a female candidate for the Aston by-election stand to be complicated by the entry into the field of Emanuele Cicchiello, who is rated a strong chance by sources close to eastern suburbs conservative powerbroker and Deakin MP Michael Sukkar. However, other unidentified sources, “including some with strong Right faction allegiances”, rubbished the notion. Cicchiello is deputy prinicipal of Lighthouse Christian College, a former mayor of Knox and contestant for the seat of Bruce in 2013 and numerous preselections since. All other noted contenders have been women with the exception of Andrew Asten, a former staffer to Alan Tudge, who has since ruled himself out. Anthony Galloway of the Age/Herald reports the matter could be determined by a plebisicite of local members, which have lately proved resistant to female candidates, if the by-election is set for a date that allows sufficient time.

• Victorian Senator Lidia Thorpe’s resignation from the Greens last week marked the first change to party representation in parliament since the election, with the Senate numbers now at Coalition 32, Labor 26, Greens 11, One Nation two, Jacqui Lambie Network two, United Australia Party one and two independents, namely Thorpe and David Pocock. This leaves the government needing two extra votes when the Greens are on board and the Coalition are not, where formerly it needed only one. Thorpe was elected to a six-year term at the election last May, which will extend to the middle of 2028.

Author: William Bowe

William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, has existed in one form or another since 2004, and is one of the most heavily trafficked websites on Australian politics.

2,987 thoughts on “Miscellany: federal Liberal preselections and new Senate numbers (open thread)”

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  1. ‘ Three unidentified objects shot down by US fighter jets since Friday may turn out to be balloons connected to “benign” commercial or research efforts, a White House official said on Tuesday.

    ‘The US has not found any evidence to connect the objects to China’s balloon surveillance program nor to any other country’s spy program …’

    The week that panicked America …

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/14/flying-objects-shot-down-balloons-white-house

  2. As if those Right-wingers opposed to the Voice cared about racism or apartheid. It’s like people who never expressed any concern for the environment suddenly worrying about the blue-crested hoopoe when a wind farm is proposed.

    As for the restaurant analogy, the Referendum question is “should we eat out?”. If yes, then we check out the menus.

  3. ”
    Oliver Suttonsays:
    Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 5:03 am
    They seek them here
    They seek them there
    The bailiffs seek them everywhere!

    Have you seen Jean-Claude?
    Or have you seen Chas?
    What shady brothers Dom’nic has!
    ”

    What can you do? They are DoPe brothers.

  4. What a bunch of f*ckwits to fall for this ponzi:

    A senior partner at consulting giant Deloitte ran a suspected multimillion-dollar fraud while working at the firm, ensnaring AFL legend Rodney Eade, dozens of executives and many of the prestigious company’s own partners.

    Endow promised investors returns of up to 40 per cent in six months for lending him money to purchase what he claimed were Indian government-issued bonds.

    The bonds were said to be linked to a large, ongoing government infrastructure program that is working to improve India’s rural road network. Endow said he was servicing the project as a contractor, according to documents he provided investors.

    https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/missing-millions-deloitte-partner-allegedly-duped-colleagues-out-of-60m-20230213-p5ck0y.html

  5. ”
    Oliver Suttonsays:
    Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 7:38 am
    ‘ Three unidentified objects shot down by US fighter jets since Friday may turn out to be balloons connected to “benign” commercial or research efforts, a White House official said on Tuesday.

    ‘The US has not found any evidence to connect the objects to China’s balloon surveillance program nor to any other country’s spy program …’

    The week that panicked America …

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/14/flying-objects-shot-down-balloons-white-house
    ”

    OS
    As I posted earlier Biden changed the rules and if any other country does the same now they can’t complain.
    This baloon episode is what they say in US: SHOOT FIRST AND TALK LATER.
    The discussion across the world ranged from chest beating to “ridiculous”.

  6. Ven @ #356 Wednesday, February 15th, 2023 – 7:56 am

    ”
    Oliver Suttonsays:
    Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 7:38 am
    ‘ Three unidentified objects shot down by US fighter jets since Friday may turn out to be balloons connected to “benign” commercial or research efforts, a White House official said on Tuesday.

    ‘The US has not found any evidence to connect the objects to China’s balloon surveillance program nor to any other country’s spy program …’

    The week that panicked America …

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/14/flying-objects-shot-down-balloons-white-house
    ”

    OS
    As I posted earlier Biden changed the rules and if any other country does the same now they can’t complain.
    This baloon episode is what they say in US: SHOOT FIRST AND TALK LATER.
    The discussion across the world ranged from chest beating to “ridiculous”.

    So, you’d rather they hadn’t shot down the Chinese spy balloon?

  7. ”
    Oliver Suttonsays:
    Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 7:38 am
    ‘ Three unidentified objects shot down by US fighter jets since Friday may turn out to be balloons connected to “benign” commercial or research efforts, a White House official said on Tuesday.

    ‘The US has not found any evidence to connect the objects to China’s balloon surveillance program nor to any other country’s spy program …’

    The week that panicked America …

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/14/flying-objects-shot-down-balloons-white-house
    ”

    I would say”the week Biden Administration panicked “.

  8. ”
    C@tmommasays:
    Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 7:57 am
    Ven @ #356 Wednesday, February 15th, 2023 – 7:56 am

    ”
    Oliver Suttonsays:
    Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 7:38 am
    ‘ Three unidentified objects shot down by US fighter jets since Friday may turn out to be balloons connected to “benign” commercial or research efforts, a White House official said on Tuesday.

    ‘The US has not found any evidence to connect the objects to China’s balloon surveillance program nor to any other country’s spy program …’

    The week that panicked America …

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/14/flying-objects-shot-down-balloons-white-house
    ”

    OS
    As I posted earlier Biden changed the rules and if any other country does the same now they can’t complain.
    This baloon episode is what they say in US: SHOOT FIRST AND TALK LATER.
    The discussion across the world ranged from chest beating to “ridiculous”.

    So, you’d rather they hadn’t shot down the Chinese spy balloon?
    ”

    But they kept shooting even after shooting down Chinese Balloon.

  9. Ven @ #358 Wednesday, February 15th, 2023 – 7:58 am

    ”
    Oliver Suttonsays:
    Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 7:38 am
    ‘ Three unidentified objects shot down by US fighter jets since Friday may turn out to be balloons connected to “benign” commercial or research efforts, a White House official said on Tuesday.

    ‘The US has not found any evidence to connect the objects to China’s balloon surveillance program nor to any other country’s spy program …’

    The week that panicked America …

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/14/flying-objects-shot-down-balloons-white-house
    ”

    I would say”the week Biden Administration panicked “.

    Yes, you would, wouldn’t you?

    So, answer the question, Ven. Would you rather the American Administration had just let the Chinese spy balloon stay up in the air gathering intel?

  10. Ven @ #359 Wednesday, February 15th, 2023 – 8:00 am

    ”
    C@tmommasays:
    Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 7:57 am
    Ven @ #356 Wednesday, February 15th, 2023 – 7:56 am

    ”
    Oliver Suttonsays:
    Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 7:38 am
    ‘ Three unidentified objects shot down by US fighter jets since Friday may turn out to be balloons connected to “benign” commercial or research efforts, a White House official said on Tuesday.

    ‘The US has not found any evidence to connect the objects to China’s balloon surveillance program nor to any other country’s spy program …’

    The week that panicked America …

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/14/flying-objects-shot-down-balloons-white-house
    ”

    OS
    As I posted earlier Biden changed the rules and if any other country does the same now they can’t complain.
    This baloon episode is what they say in US: SHOOT FIRST AND TALK LATER.
    The discussion across the world ranged from chest beating to “ridiculous”.

    So, you’d rather they hadn’t shot down the Chinese spy balloon?
    ”

    But they kept shooting even after shooting down Chinese Balloon.

    But you didn’t make that distinction in your first statement. Only now.

    To which I would add, better to be sure, than sorry.

  11. Now this is something we should be getting hot under the collar about:

    When tennis champion Novak Djokovic’s father was filmed alongside fans brandishing Russian flags at the Australian Open, a storm erupted around the world No.1.

    But those with a deeper understanding of the pro-Russia movement in Australia were more concerned about who Srdjan Djokovic had posed with.

    Among the group of men shown waving the banned Russian flag and unfurling propaganda were influential members of a pro-Vladimir Putin group known as the Night Wolves.

    Relatively unknown in Australia, the club began as a Russian motorcycle group that first emerged in the late 1980s.

    It has since grown into a radical nationalist movement that’s been sanctioned – along with its most prominent international members – by the European Union and US. The group is considered a security threat due to its intelligence and combat activities in Crimea and close ties to Putin.

    While the Night Wolves’ influence and activities – including military mobilisation in various conflicts – have been reported at large in international settings, its influence in Australia and its local membership have flown under the radar.

    Featured in the now-infamous Australian Open video were the one-time vice president of the group’s Melbourne chapter and a member who has been identified in footage as the Night Wolves’ national president.

    Academic Robert Horvath said the Night Wolves’ origins were as a paramilitary and radical nationalist movement. But the group’s role in Australia is simpler.

    https://www.smh.com.au/sport/tennis/how-a-storm-over-djokovic-s-dad-uncovered-melbourne-s-pro-putin-night-wolves-20230206-p5ciaw.html

  12. Good morning Dawn Patrollers

    David Crowe tells us that the Greens will demand a sweeping change to Labor’s flagship policy to cut greenhouse gas emissions by pushing for an amendment to stop all new coal and gas projects, setting up a third clash on big election promises after disputes on housing and industry. Here we go again!
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/greens-set-up-fresh-senate-clash-with-call-for-ban-on-new-coal-and-gas-20230214-p5ckfx.html
    Elizabeth Knight explains how last week the Reserve Bank pushed consumer confidence into the abyss.
    https://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/the-day-the-reserve-bank-pushed-consumer-confidence-into-the-abyss-20230214-p5ckew.html
    “For how much longer will the Australian Senate be allowed to abuse our democracy, mock integrity in representation and become the vehicle for self-interested exploitation by senators who change their party alignment without any penalty or accountability?”, asks Paul Kelly who sats that the bizarre feature of Lidia Thorpe’s defection is the near universal recognition across the political system that this is wrong and should not be allowed.
    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/commentary/referendum-could-rein-insenate-defectors/news-story/4475466439359ae997efa7b5a228ae2a?amp
    The federal government is poised to overhaul the nation’s military capabilities and significantly increase defence spending after receiving a landmark review it says will usher in a new era in Australian defence policy. Matthew Knott reports that Anthony Albanese has been handed the final version of a defence strategic review by former Defence Force chief Angus Houston and former defence minister Stephen Smith.
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/new-era-in-defence-policy-government-to-overhaul-nation-s-military-20230214-p5ckgz.html
    Now the Houston/Smith report has been presented to the government, Greg Sheridan writes that the decisions of the government over the next month will help determine how much agency and influence Australia has in shaping its own security destiny.
    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/defence/defence-strategic-review-signals-critical-turning-point-for-our-countrys-destiny/news-story/b8b953ae25d08d69718e5f376857d159?amp
    Falling house prices and higher interest rates should make parents wary of being on the hook for their child’s mortgage should anything go wrong, warns John Collett.
    https://www.smh.com.au/money/planning-and-budgeting/parents-warned-about-being-their-kid-s-guarantor-as-property-prices-fall-20230210-p5cjhf.html
    Ross Gittins says that, given our monopoly on housing, it’s no wonder the young hate Boomers like him.
    https://www.theage.com.au/business/the-economy/given-our-monopoly-on-housing-it-s-no-wonder-the-young-hate-boomers-like-me-20230214-p5ckad.html
    There is no doubt the Coalition-stacked Reserve Bank needs a deep clean-out, hopefully, including an updated, more democratic selection process, writes Lachlan Newland.
    https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/reserve-bank-renovation-well-overdue,17237
    Paul Bongiorno tells us how the Aston by-election is putting a sharp focus on political fault lines.
    https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/politics/australian-politics/2023/02/14/paul-bongiorno-aston-by-election-liberals/
    Scott Morrison’s vocal opposition to a controversial offshore gas drilling project meant his later decision to formally block it was tainted by apprehended bias, a court has found. And the vocal opposition of Prime Minister Anthony Albanese is leading to accusations any decision under his government will also be tainted. Yesterday the Federal Court quashed Mr Morrison’s December 2021 decision to block an extension of the PEP-11 project permit and remitted it to a joint federal-New South Wales authority.
    https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2023/02/14/federal-court-scott-morrisons-pep-11-veto/?breaking_live_scroll=1
    Liberal Party lobby firm Crosby Textor was awarded a secret contract, not put to tender, when Scott Morrison was managing director at Tourism Australia. Jommy Tee investigates what the bloody hell happened. He says two procurement processes run by Tourism Australia in 2005 coalesced to form a maelstrom of maladministration involving irregular and collusive practices by the government agency – at the time Scott Morrison was managing director.
    https://michaelwest.com.au/documents-reveal-liberal-lobby-firm-crosby-textor-was-slung-a-secret-deal-at-scott-morrisons-tourism-australia/
    The $13 billion Murray-Darling Basin Plan is up a creek with little prospect of meeting its June 2024 deadline to revitalise the nation’s largest river system, forcing a series of expensive and controversial decisions on Water Minister Tanya Plibersek. Mike Foley points out that after years of inaction from NSW, Victoria and the former Coalition federal government, the Albanese government made an election commitment to complete the basin plan, but Plibersek faces opposition from the states at a meeting of water ministers set for February 24.
    https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/plibersek-left-high-and-dry-on-murray-darling-promise-20230214-p5ckg2.html
    David Crowe reports that the consulting firm that gained secret advice from former cabinet minister Stuart Robert has been asked to explain why it has not registered as a lobbyist with federal authorities, sparking questions about the penalties for those who do not comply with the rules.
    https://www.theage.com.au/politics/federal/lobbyist-register-farcical-greens-say-with-synergy360-still-not-signed-up-20230214-p5ckh1.html
    Frank Brennan declares that with asylum seeker policy, compromise has finally led to decency.
    https://johnmenadue.com/on-asylum-seeker-policy-compromise-has-finally-led-to-decency/
    A senior partner at consulting giant Deloitte ran a suspected multimillion-dollar fraud while working at the firm, ensnaring AFL legend Rodney Eade, dozens of executives and many of the prestigious company’s own partners. Nick McKenzie and Simone Fox Koob tell us that the figure at the centre of the suspected $60m scandal, ex-Deloitte lead partner Amberjit Endow, can no longer be found by the worried investors who advanced him millions of dollars. They now have hired asset tracers to find him and the money he personally guaranteed was safe.
    https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/missing-millions-deloitte-partner-allegedly-duped-colleagues-out-of-60m-20230213-p5ck0y.html
    Dominic Perrottet has refused to tell voters whether he will back a ban on so-called gay conversion therapy, insisting he cannot say if NSW should outlaw the harmful method until he has considered it with his cabinet.
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/premier-won-t-say-if-he-will-back-ban-on-gay-conversion-practices-20230214-p5ckep.html
    The SMH editorial declares that the Church’s abhorrent therapy has no place in the state.
    https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/church-s-abhorrent-therapy-has-no-place-in-this-state-20230214-p5ckho.html
    Meanwhile, two major Christian schooling associations have pulled out of a consultation process with the Australian Law Reform Commission over new anti-discrimination laws for religious schools, claiming to have “lost faith” in the commission remaining “balanced” in tackling the issue.
    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/politics/religious-schools-lose-faith-in-law-reform/news-story/c4aba5dbf1848d7b7577b940f52a0e5a?amp
    Gary Adshead writes that the response from Alcoa after enduring a week of damaging revelations about its bauxite mining on the Darling Scarp, was little more than rehearsed weasel words.
    https://www.smh.com.au/environment/sustainability/nothing-more-than-weasel-words-in-alcoa-s-response-to-serious-concerns-20230214-p5ckk7.html
    Casino giant Star Entertainment Group’s shares have plummeted to another record low, shedding over 30 per cent in just two days, as the NSW government’s proposed casino tax increase weighs on the company’s future. You win some, you lose some, so gamblers say.
    https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/star-hits-new-low-as-nsw-tax-jitters-send-investors-fleeing-20230214-p5ckh9.html
    The Order of Australia system is a bunyip aristocracy that reflects the hierarchies of British society in which the high and mighty get the cream and others are left with the skimmed milk, opines Paddy Gourley.
    https://johnmenadue.com/the-order-of-australia-system-a-bunyip-aristocracy/
    While hostility directed at Australia’s most vulnerable citizens is not confined to the aged, contempt for the elderly is the most puzzling since it harms everyone, writes Dr Jennifer Wilson about “casual ageism”.
    https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/casual-ageism-now-most-accepted-form-of-discrimination,17235
    Alexandra Smith reports that key witnesses in a parliamentary inquiry probing alleged links between NSW Liberal councillors and colourful developer Jean Nassif will be hand-delivered summonses after failing to respond to requests by the committee to give evidence. On the face of it, this inquiry will be a roaster!
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/key-witnesses-in-inquiry-into-nsw-liberal-councillors-avoiding-summons-20230214-p5ckhu.html
    Nearly half of federal police employees lack confidence in the force’s administrative process, damning staff survey results reveal. A third of the nearly 5000 police officers and supporting staff who responded to the survey also say the technology they deal with affects their work to a great – or very great – extent. Top officials within the Australian Federal Police conceded the poor results from 2021 in a Senate estimates hearing on Monday evening, saying there had “modest improvements” in the survey since.
    https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/8085217/damning-afp-staff-survey-reveals-lack-of-confidence-in-admin-innovation/?cs=14329
    Victoria Police has paid out more than $42 million in civil settlements and legal costs over the past five years, with payouts for bad behaviour rising amid a significant drop in public satisfaction with the force. Someyya Ilanbey tells us that the details – and number – of the cases remain shrouded in secrecy, but the blowout in financial settlements has renewed calls for an independent police oversight body.
    https://www.theage.com.au/politics/victoria/victoria-police-pay-out-42m-in-legal-settlements-over-past-five-years-20230214-p5ckfi.html
    A former Scots College student has expressed his concern at what the school’s objectives are and wonders why on earth Tony Abbott has been invited to speak there.
    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/as-a-scots-old-boy-it-s-not-tony-abbott-s-visit-that-concerns-me-most-20230214-p5ckdc.html
    Creditors are likely to be left empty-handed after tipping a failed Melbourne builder into liquidation amid claims it traded while insolvent. Surely they would have known this as their balance sheet crashed down to a negative value of $12m!
    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/failed-melbourne-builder-hallbury-homes-owes-up-to-12m/news-story/8c7fdd5d98f9fd0cd8c26b2609edbf8f?amp
    Life as a central banker was never meant to be easy, but the challenges confronting the incoming governor of the Bank of Japan make those faced by his peers like Fed chief Jerome Powell or the RBA’s Philip Lowe look relatively straightforward, writes Stephen Bartholomeusz who says Japan’s surprise pick risks unleashing global chaos if he gets it wrong.
    https://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/japan-s-surprise-pick-risks-unleashing-global-chaos-if-he-gets-it-wrong-20230214-p5cka1.html
    The former South Carolina governor Nikki Haley is challenging her one-time boss for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination.
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/14/nikki-haley-to-seek-republican-presidential-nomination-donald-trump
    “Is the US going to stand by while Israel becomes an autocracy?”, asks Jan-Werner Müller.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/feb/14/israel-autocracy-benjamim-netanyahu-joe-biden

    Cartoon Corner

    David Rowe

    Fiona Katauskas
    ?width=940&quality=45&auto=format&fit=max&dpr=2&s=457f44b6f34ed2ba9378ed4718e8d142
    David Pope

    Matt Golding



    Cathy Wilcox

    John Shakespeare

    Simon Letch

    Andrew Dyson

    Mark Knight

    Spooner

    From the US







  13. Ven: ‘I would say”the week Biden Administration panicked’

    Yep. I was riffing on Orson Welles’s 1938 radio play of The War of the Worlds’: ‘the night that panicked America’.

    Back then, it was the Martians. This time it was the Chinese … sorry, the ‘Chicommies’.

  14. The European Parliament on Tuesday gave its final approval to a ban on new sales of carbon-emitting petrol and diesel cars by 2035, with a view to getting them off the continent’s roads by mid-century.

    European Union member states have already approved the legislation and will now formally nod it into law at an upcoming ministerial meeting, despite opposition from conservative MEPs, the parliament’s biggest group.

    Supporters of the bill had argued to that it would give European carmakers a clear timeframe in which to switch production to zero-emission electric vehicles, and spur investment to counter competition from China and the United States.

    This, in turn, will also support the European Union’s ambitious plan to become a “climate neutral” economy by 2050, with net-zero greenhouse gas emissions.

  15. Why wouldn’t Labor agree to stop all new coal and gas projects.
    It’s what Labor has been banging on about for the last 10 years hasn’t it ??

  16. Historyintimesays:

    ‘When these people’s terms are up they can be replaced and that is due within the first term of the government,” — C@tmomma
    ________________
    I have never understood this argument. If your intention is to replace a CEO, why not do it straight away. What is gained by keeping them there for another 12-18 months. At best a little continuity, but presumably you actually want change.

    Payouts, bad publicity, confidence in acknowledgement of contracts. Slow change also makes it look like you have the right people for the jobs, rather than this bloke get this job, that bloke gets that job from a rapid replacement process.

  17. “C@tmommasays:
    Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 8:02 am
    Ven @ #359 Wednesday, February 15th, 2023 – 8:00 am

    ”
    C@tmommasays:
    Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 7:57 am
    Ven @ #356 Wednesday, February 15th, 2023 – 7:56 am

    ”
    Oliver Suttonsays:
    Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 7:38 am
    ‘ Three unidentified objects shot down by US fighter jets since Friday may turn out to be balloons connected to “benign” commercial or research efforts, a White House official said on Tuesday.

    ‘The US has not found any evidence to connect the objects to China’s balloon surveillance program nor to any other country’s spy program …’

    The week that panicked America …

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/feb/14/flying-objects-shot-down-balloons-white-house
    ”

    OS
    As I posted earlier Biden changed the rules and if any other country does the same now they can’t complain.
    This baloon episode is what they say in US: SHOOT FIRST AND TALK LATER.
    The discussion across the world ranged from chest beating to “ridiculous”.

    So, you’d rather they hadn’t shot down the Chinese spy balloon?
    ”

    But they kept shooting even after shooting down Chinese Balloon.

    But you didn’t make that distinction in your first statement. Only now.

    To which I would add, better to be sure, than sorry., than sorry.
    ”

    This is what I posted to phoenixRED posted

    Vensays:
    Tuesday, February 14, 2023 at 8:36 am
    ”
    phoenixREDsays:
    Tuesday, February 14, 2023 at 8:17 am
    There are still 171 mysterious UFO sightings that lack a good explanation: columnist

    In the wake of recent shoot-downs by the U.S. Military of a Chinese surveillance balloon followed by three unidentified flying objects, CNN’s Peter Bergen says a review of a January report from America’s intelligence community is worth re-examining.

    According to the report, the number of UFO sightings significantly increased between March 2021 and August 2022 when 247 new sightings were reported, mostly by US Navy and Air Force pilots and personnel — almost doubling the amount of sightings during the 17-year period between 2004 to 2021.

    Additionally, there were 171 sightings that had no explanation, with some of those objects demonstrating unusual flight characteristics or performance capabilities.” The report also said the sightings “continue to occur in restricted or sensitive airspace, highlighting possible concerns for safety of flight.”
    ”

    Thanks phoenixRED
    “the number of UFO sightings significantly increased between March 2021 and August 2022 when 247 new sightings were reported, mostly by US Navy and Air Force pilots and personnel — almost doubling the amount of sightings during the 17-year period between 2004 to 2021.”

    A couple of deductions and queries:
    1. All these happened after Biden (247) became President.
    2. Why didn’t the Biden Administration shoot those UFOs earlier rather than 4 in 1 month? Is it because of criticism of Repugs?
    3. USA has changed the rules of the game by shooting UFOs down. Now it can’t complain if some other country does the same to its UFOs.
    It might have increased the popularity of Biden for time being with lot of back slapping.
    I read reports that China is getting ready to do the same. What happens then?

  18. So, the ‘US has over-reacted to the objects traversing its skies’ is actually Chinese disinfo?

    While many in the world see the Chinese spy balloon as a sign of Beijing’s growing aggressiveness, China has sought to cast the controversy as a symptom of the United States’ irrevocable decline.

    Why else would a great power be spooked by a flimsy inflatable craft, China has argued, if not for a raft of internal problems like an intensely divided society and intractable partisan strife driving President Biden to act tough on Beijing?

    The balloon incident “has shown to the world how immature and irresponsible — indeed hysterical — the United States has been in dealing with the case,” read a recent editorial in the People’s Daily, the ruling Communist Party’s mouthpiece.

    Chinese propaganda has tried to score points against the Biden administration, mocking it as flailing, overreacting and trying to outflank its hard-right Republican opponents to demonstrate who can stand taller against Beijing. Nowhere in China’s response has the government acknowledged the balloon’s cost to its own credibility and the mounting evidence that it was all too willing to spy on its neighbors and beyond.

    Instead, on Tuesday, China sought to show it had already moved on from the incident. Much of the country’s messaging tended to strategic interests elsewhere in the world. China’s ambassador to France, Lu Shaye, spoke of shoring up ties with the European Union to break the grip of U.S. influence within the bloc. And China welcomed Iran’s hard-line president, Ebrahim Raisi, to Beijing, where he’ll meet with China’s top leader, Xi Jinping, in a sign of the two countries’ shared vision of a more multipolar world, free of Washington’s dominance.

    Mr. Xi underscored that point last week when he delivered a speech at the Central Party School in which he proclaimed that “Chinese-style modernization” was a new model for human advancement that dispelled the notion that “modernization is equal to Westernization.”

    The speech echoed more subtly the steady drumbeat of anti-American rhetoric that has filled the opinion sections of Chinese state media since the balloon was shot down off the coast of South Carolina on Feb. 4. China has asserted that the United States overreacted by downing the balloon, which the Chinese insist was a civilian airship that was blown off course. American officials say the vessel belonged to a vast Chinese surveillance program designed to collect information on the military capabilities of countries around the world.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/14/world/asia/us-china-spy-balloon-ufo.html

    So, where did you pick up your stance from, Ven? The Indian, pro China media?

  19. Thank you, BK.
    Vic, our latest grandchild has arrived. Mum to be went off to the birthing centre at 4am. Natural birth done and dusted by 7.30. Will probably be back at home this afternoon.
    All well. Everyone happy.

  20. ”
    C@tmommasays:
    Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 8:41 am
    So, the ‘US has over-reacted to the objects traversing its skies’ is actually Chinese disinfo?
    https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/14/world/asia/us-china-spy-balloon-ufo.html

    So, where did you pick up your stance from, Ven? The Indian, pro China media?
    ”

    I picked my stance from what phoenixRED posted (which I duly posted it again).
    I don’t care about what China and India do?

    If I care about what they think I should be supporting LNP in domestic policy. LNP governments of Abbott/ Turnbull/Morrison had pretty good relationship with China (till they asked COVID origin to be investigated at USA behest) and India.
    I don’t support LNP because they crapped on Australian people.
    Similarly The Republican party Presidents Bush Jr and Trump and Tory leadership of UK had/ has pretty good relationship with India and China unlike Democrats and British Labour.
    But I still don’t support Conservatives because they crapped on their own people.

    So C@tmomma don’t insult my intelligence.

    As I confirmed to Lars, I am an Australian citizen.

  21. https://www.theage.com.au/cbd/sally-rugg-battles-leaks-from-her-own-camp-20230214-p5cki8.html

    Skip past the nothing burger Sally Rugg stuff. The interesting part of the column is it appears Shorten has drafted the team used by Daniel Andrews to clean out the Vic state Department of Justice to do the same number on the NDIA.

    It’s like the days of Max “the Axe” Moore-Wilton except for axing a couple of dozen unproductive executives put in place by the Libs instead of thousands of regular working staff.

  22. Arky @ #384 Wednesday, February 15th, 2023 – 9:23 am

    https://www.theage.com.au/cbd/sally-rugg-battles-leaks-from-her-own-camp-20230214-p5cki8.html

    Skip past the nothing burger Sally Rugg stuff. The interesting part of the column is it appears Shorten has drafted the team used by Daniel Andrews to clean out the Vic state Department of Justice to do the same number on the NDIA.

    It’s like the days of Max “the Axe” Moore-Wilton except for axing a couple of dozen unproductive executives put in place by the Libs instead of thousands of regular working staff.

    Dark Shorten. 🙂

  23. UK Cartoons:
    Steve Bell on Sunak’s plan to defend against spy balloons #RishiSunak

    Dave Brown on #RishiSunak #KeirStarmer #CBI #ToryLite #ToriesUnfitToGovern #RishiSunk

    Patrick Blower on #ChineseSpyBalloon #BritishArmy #Defence

    Matt on #SewageScandal

    Christian Adams on #Putin #ValentinesDay #ValentinesDay2023 #UkraineWar

    Martyn Turner on #BalloonShotDown #ChineseSpyBallon #ValentinesDay #ValentinesDay2023 #Balloon

  24. ”
    Arkysays:
    Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 9:23 am
    https://www.theage.com.au/cbd/sally-rugg-battles-leaks-from-her-own-camp-20230214-p5cki8.html

    Skip past the nothing burger Sally Rugg stuff. The interesting part of the column is it appears Shorten has drafted the team used by Daniel Andrews to clean out the Vic state Department of Justice to do the same number on the NDIA.

    It’s like the days of Max “the Axe” Moore-Wilton except for axing a couple of dozen unproductive executives put in place by the Libs instead of thousands of regular working staff.
    ”

    Ahh! Max “the axe”. Those were the days when John Howard could do anything with impunity. In fact Howard government did anything with impunity for 11 years until they lost power.

    Similarly Abbott/ Turnbull/ Morrison governments did anything with impunity for 9 years until they lost power.

  25. ”
    Arkysays:
    Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 9:23 am
    https://www.theage.com.au/cbd/sally-rugg-battles-leaks-from-her-own-camp-20230214-p5cki8.html

    Skip past the nothing burger Sally Rugg stuff. The interesting part of the column is it appears Shorten has drafted the team used by Daniel Andrews to clean out the Vic state Department of Justice to do the same number on the NDIA.

    It’s like the days of Max “the Axe” Moore-Wilton except for axing a couple of dozen unproductive executives put in place by the Libs instead of thousands of regular working staff.
    ”

    Arky

    Brandon Shorten?

  26. If Jeremy submitted all of that, they were very nice to have edited it down for him to publish rather than tossing it entirely. They published only the restaurant analogy and not all the advice to Dutton or gratuitous swipes that supporters of the Voice are racist.

    People in today’s letters column have done a good job of rejecting the analogy.

  27. C@tmomma says:
    Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 6:47 am
    According to Sky News, Labor thinks it’s ‘untouchable’ and can ‘break any promise’.

    I think Skewed Views came out with exactly the same lines after 2007.

    #getsomenewmaterial
    ——————————————————————————————-

    I suppose that claim by Sky News might somehow be effective if more than 1% of the population watched them.

  28. The restaurant analogy is one of the most inane I’ve ever come across. Perhaps we can pick and choose which Constitution we want to accept. Or perhaps we will dine at the Constitution restaurant and select the quarantine power, with a side of immigration (but hold the emigration) with a dessert of the nexus requirement.

    Then again, there are some very highly regarded restaurants where there is no menu, and you put your trust in the chef’s choice, or you choose from the menu of the day which changes according to market availability and seasonality.

    Now that I think about it,I’d be happy to dine at the Voice restaurant, where the parliamentary chefs design a menu that suits the season and the times to ensure that the highest quality and best prepared dishes come to me.

  29. Yeah, Israel is such an autocracy that their political system keeps paralysing itself because it’s so hard for anyone even Netanyahu to obtain and keep a majority even in a coalition

    Australia wasn’t an autocracy because we kept re-electing Menzies or Howard anymore than Victoria is an autocracy under Dictator Dan no matter what Sky says.

    I get that in the context of Netanyahu, the government having more say in appointing judges sounds scary but it’s actually kind of weird in Israel that the government doesn’t already have a majority say on the committee that appoints judges.

    The rest of it is interesting legally. I can see the right wingers’ point that the Israeli courts have basically developed their own power grab over several decades to enable them to strike down laws they don’t like without any basis in written law for it, and this overcomes that
    There’s a handful of implied constitutional rights in Australia, most notably the implied right to freedom of political communication, and they sit uneasily and are probably at a low ebb at the moment in the High Court’s willingness to rely on them. Like in Israel, it was really a 90s legal fad to imply rights all over the place that had not been written down. This is not at all like Mabo, incidentally before anyone raises that.

    One of course never trusts Netanyahu’s motives. The first thing his government will use the new powers for if they pass Parliament is to reintroduce the struck down asylum seeker laws which, um, Australia is in no position to criticise,and there’s probably worse to come. But autocracy? Nah.

  30. Israel, USA, even Australia under Morrison, are democracies always poised on the knife-edge of become autocracies (with a thin veneer of democratic institutions providing false reassurance) under either internal or external pressure or through disillusion-driven apathy.

    It will always be a close run thing and we depend on the politicians who are elected to keep the wheels of democracy greased while all the time they are tempted to jam them up.

  31. https://www.netimes.com.au/2023/02/13/apvma-ceo-on-leave-until-inquiry-complete/
    APVMA CEO ‘on leave’ until inquiry complete
    Feb 13, 2023

    https://www.netimes.com.au/2023/02/15/apvma-independent-review-abandoned-on-legal-advice/
    APVMA independent review abandoned on legal advice
    Feb 15, 2023

    Minister for Agriculture Murray Watt has revealed in Senate Estimates that the independent review of the culture of the Armidale based Australian Pesticides and Veterinary Medicines Authority (APVMA) has been abandoned on legal advice.

    The Minister told the Senate Estimates hearing of the Rural and Regional Affairs and Transport Committee late Tuesday night that he had made the decision to “wrap the inquiry up”, before the originally scheduled reporting date of March 31, based on legal advice on how to handle new serious allegations detailed in an interim report. The new allegations were instead referred to the police, the Australian Public Service Commission which investigates breaches of the Australian Public Service Code of Conduct, and “a number of matters” were referred to the board of the APVMA for further investigation.

    Minister Watt said those authorities were better equipped and had more investigatory powers than the culture review he ordered last November being conducted by lawyer Mary Brennan. On Wednesday last week the Minister received the interim report from Ms Brennan which detailed additional serious allegations, including potential breaches of the APS code of conduct and potential breaches of other law.

  32. Now that I think about it, I’d be happy to dine at the Voice restaurant, where the parliamentary chefs design a menu that suits the season and the times to ensure that the highest quality and best prepared dishes come to me.

    To stretch the analogy even further … and they will be using the best Bush Tucker, because they are the best chefs to prepare it. 🙂

  33. Cronus @ #392 Wednesday, February 15th, 2023 – 9:38 am

    C@tmomma says:
    Wednesday, February 15, 2023 at 6:47 am
    According to Sky News, Labor thinks it’s ‘untouchable’ and can ‘break any promise’.

    I think Skewed Views came out with exactly the same lines after 2007.

    #getsomenewmaterial
    ——————————————————————————————-

    I suppose that claim by Sky News might somehow be effective if more than 1% of the population watched them.

    That may be so but they rely on the amplification principle (which I suppose I have contributed to myself).

  34. A few lines from The Economist’s Democracy Index 2022:

    28. Portugal – flawed democracy
    29. Israel – flawed democracy
    30. United States – flawed democracy
    31. Slovenia – flawed democracy

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