Sydney and the bush

Poll findings and preselection news ahead of a New South Wales state election now eight months away.

The Guardian reported on Saturday in disagreeably vague terms about an Essential Research poll of state voting intention in New South Wales, which finds the Coalition on 37% of the primary vote (42% among men, 32% among women) and Labor on 33%, compared with 41.6% and 33.3% at the 2019 election. Dominic Perrottet was on 49% approval and 35% disapproval, while Chris Minns was on 39% approval and 22% disapproval. I’m guessing the poll was conducted for an unidentified private client and not for The Guardian, which would have made a bigger deal out of it otherwise. It was conducted in “over five days after the release of the state budget last week”, which I guess means June 22 to 26, from a sample of 700.

Further election-related news from the premier state:

• Gabrielle Upton, who has held blue-ribbon Vaucluse for the Liberals since 2011, has announced she will not contest the next election in March. The Sydney Morning Herald reports possible contenders for Liberal preselection include Daisy Turnbull, teacher, author and daughter of Malcolm and Lucy Turnbull, and “journalist turned executive” Kellie Sloane, who unsuccessfully contested the preselection to succeed Gladys Berejiklian in Willoughby. The Daily Telegraph further throws in Woollahra mayor Susan Wynne, Export Council director Cristina Talacko, and two Woollahra councillors, Mary-Lou Jarvis and Richard Shields. There is clearly a view among party hardheads that the candidate should be a woman, although local preselectors ignored a similar sentiment when choosing a successor to Gladys Berejiklian in Willoughby.

Max Maddison of The Australian earlier reported that Vaucluse was one of a number of seats where the Liberals are concerned about prospects for teal independents, together with Willoughby, Lane Cove and Wakehurst. Willoughby was rated most at risk, with Wakehurst having the potential to join it if its member, Health Minister Brad Hazzard, opted to retire. However, Liberal sources said they believed the challenge would be blunted by “campaign funding caps, optional preferential voting and the ‘Matt Kean effect’”. Community group North Sydney’s Independent, which activated Kylea Tink’s successful federal campaign, have identified Lane Cove, North Shore and Willoughby as potential targets, with the former offering the opportunity to capitalise on discontent with local member Anthony Roberts’ decisions as Planning Minister.

• The Sydney Morning Herald reported yesterday that the New South Wales Liberal Party’s state executive has set a target of 40 per cent of seats to be contested by women at the March election. Max Maddison of The Australian reports the state executive has opened preselections for seats specifically identified as targets at the election, including Opposition Leader Chris Minns’ seat of Kogarah, where the redistribution has cut the Labor margin from 1.8% to 0.1%. The others are Leppington (newly created in the redistribution with a notional Labor margin of 1.5%), Londonderry (Labor margin down from 6.5% to 3.0% in the redistribution), The Entrance (Labor margin of 5.3%), Bega (Liberal margin of 6.9% at the election, Labor margin of 5.1% at the February by-election), although another unnamed insider says only Leppington was a serious prospect.

Linda Silmalis of the Sunday Telegraph reports that Fairfield mayor Frank Carbone, a key backer of Dai Le’s successful independent campaign in Fowler, could now run as an independent in the corresponding state seat of Fairfield. This threat has complicated a Labor plan to deal with the redistribution by moving Bankstown MP Tania Mihailuk to Fairfield, Fairfield MP Guy Zangari to Cabramatta and Lakemba MP Jihad Dib to Bankstown. Concerns that Mihailuk might go the way of Keneally have prompted suggestions she should be cast aside in favour of Tu Le, whose ambitions for Fowler were thwarted by the anointment of Kristina Keneally. Another possible contender is Khal Asfour, the mayor of Bankstown.

Author: William Bowe

William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, has existed in one form or another since 2004, and is one of the most heavily trafficked websites on Australian politics.

65 comments on “Sydney and the bush”

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  1. Gabrielle Upton’s departure is no great loss. As a past AG and minister for the environment, she trumpets her legacy:

    “As the state’s first female attorney-general I am thankful to have led reforms to support child victims in child sexual assault proceedings and as environment minister to have introduced the Return and Earn container deposit litter reduction scheme,” she said.

    Supporting victim’s of child sexual assault is a kind of no-brainer, but maybe for her and her party it was a major advance. And then there’s recycling. She left out voting against VAD.

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/nsw/vaucluse-liberal-mp-gabrielle-upton-to-quit-politics-ahead-of-next-election-20220706-p5azg8.html

    I don’t see any threat to the Libs. The electorate has done its federal teal cleansing. And Perrottet and Kean would measure up by most measures in Vaucluse.

  2. NSW Labor is silly to have their leader in a seat with only a 0.8% margin. Plus the changing demographics in this area mean it will likely trend Lib over time. Silly stuff. Minns should run in Rockdale instead.

  3. Concerns that Mihailuk might go the way of Keneally have prompted suggestions she should be cast aside in favour of Tu Le, whose ambitions for Fowler were thwarted by the anointment of Kristina Keneally.

    Guys honestly I don’t want to bang on about the Kristina Keneally Fowler parachute because its been done to death. But the fact is Tu Le has rubbed some in the party the wrong way with her continual media appearances. The local Cabramatta branch has put up a motion calling for her expulsion believing her constant public criticism. Played a role in developing a groundswell of support for Dai Le.

    The risk in giving Tu Le a preselection is it rewards this kind of behaviour. There were potential candidates that missed out for preselection federal seats of Hunter and Parramatta. But while there is was some complaints about the process. There wasn’t the constant media appearances that Le racked up. Are they not worthy of state seats preselection’s either because they took it on the chin?

  4. Nobody’s ever been able to credibly explain Tu Le’s claim on any seat. She’s matey with the former member for Fowler. That’s literally it. There must be many similarly or better credentialled Vietnamese women in the party.

  5. You could solve the debate over who has the ‘claim’ to a parachute in whichever seat by just not doing it anymore.

  6. Re Snappy Tom at 2.40 pm

    Are you presuming Labor will lose again in NSW, for the 4th time in a row? Are you really pessimistic?

    Given your quiz post on the open thread (2.19 pm) I doubt that you really think Labor will lose again.

    Of the 47 federal NSW seats Labor won 26, the Coalition 16 and independents 5 (including Fowler, lost by Labor by default). Perrottet has shown less fuckwittery than the silent Ad Man (to use Wong’s 2019 description of the ex-PM). Yet anybody could do that. Why has Perrottet changed? He is the underdog.

    Meanwhile the Greens want a campaign director ASAP. Some of their friends need proof-readers. E.g.:

    “This notebook attempts to provide insights into the 2022 NSW State Election for the NSW Greens.”

    From first sentence at: https://observablehq.com/@jdcaperon/2023-nsw-greens-election-analysis

    The site claims “to visualize individual polling booth swings of the 2019 and 2022 Australian federal elections with respect to the NSW state boundaries”, but they’re not presented in a user-friendly way.

    Even Leppington is hardly a serious prospect for the Libs. It was badly treated by the double-standard inherent in the belated Gladys lockdown a year ago. The Minister for Western Sydney, Mr Ayres, is knee-deep in the Porky for NY scandal. The poll at the top is rather small but it has a big gender gap.

  7. Dr Doolittle at 6.01

    Are you presuming Labor will lose again in NSW, for the 4th time in a row? Are you really pessimistic?
    ____________

    I’m slightly optimistic. My 2.40 post was an expression of my somewhat warped sense of humour.

    Let’s assume the meeja will back the Coalition solidly – especially as Matt Kean, along with the NSW Liberal Division’s recent stoush with Morrison/Hawke gives NSW Liberals a veneer of ‘moderation’ (even though Perottet was part of the gang imposing terrible candidates in federal seats.) It will almost be as if Kean is the Premier, for the purposes of fooling voters.

    In addition, NSW’s optional preferential voting – stupidly introduced by Labor – reduces minor preference flows to Labor.

    I think a hung parliament is a distinct possibility. If the Coalition lose several seats and Labor gain a couple, Labor could form govt with a ‘confidence and supply’ agreement with cross bench.

    Alternatively, Labor might replicate the federal result: a narrow majority govt with an expanded cross bench (maybe only a Teal or two, some SFFs in the country etc) making regaining govt challenging for the Coalition.

    I’m not much of a Minns fan. He got the leadership because 1) the meeja either completely ignored McKay or undermined/criticised her; and 2) after the Upper Hunter by-election, his supporters made it clear they would continue to undermine McKay or anyone else until Minns was installed.

    So, Minns had jolly well better win!

  8. If only there were some way to definitively work out which candidate the party membership actually wants. Something like, I don’t know, a preselection ballot?

    If only.

  9. And second up is Snappy Tom. No idea. Hopefully Newtown weighs in with his Prue Car and Sheldon trope will save us to compete the trifecta.

  10. Wranslide at 8.32

    And second up is Snappy Tom. No idea. Hopefully Newtown weighs in with his Prue Car and Sheldon trope will save us to compete the trifecta.
    ____________

    The list of things about which I have no idea is long and distinguish. To which do you wish to refer on this occasion?

  11. I’m sorry Wranslide. Got my Le names mixed up. Dai Le and Frank Carbone are like a symbiotic political branch management machine, and it doesn’t seem to really matter what party is involved.

  12. I think Frank Carbone is more interested in Frank 2.0 than anything else. I’m not even criticizing. For better or for worse, in that area, they (Le and Carbone) get people to vote for them. Can’t begrudge anyone that. But ALP? LNP? Independent? Who knows. Might be like one of those eskimo ice/snow things. You know… when they supposedly have seven different descriptions of it? Fun fact; I used to know an amazing woman that wrote a book about building igloos.

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/56928.Building_an_Igloo

    Anyhowz… I don’t think Le and Carbone are ALP, LNP, or anything. Maybe they see voters like the Inuit see ice. Flavoured?

  13. Well I don’t know much about NSW politics but according to the pendulum in Wikipedia, the ALP would need a 6.8% swing to get a majority, or about 55% two pp. But surely that couldn’t be the case in practice. And surely there must be a reasonable swing to the ALP. If you take the poll for this thread, that might be about 3% in two pp. Given more drift, the ALP should at least get into a minority government scenario.

    Don’t know anything about Chris Minns, but the ALP doesn’t really seem to have had a top level leader since Bob Carr. Maybe NSW State politics isn’t that exciting as a career prospect anymore.

  14. Interesting to see that Chris Minn’s margin has just been cut yet again to the thin air that is 0.1%. I thought it was already dangerously low, particularly for a LOTO.

    If there is a teal movement in NSW Sydney metro seats across the party lines it could potentially spell disaster for both majors in the NSW brave new world of optional pref voting in the lower house.

    If the premier can coast along in his annoyingly inoffensive and mild way to the polls in a 50-50 toss up the likes of Minns could be in big trouble without preferences to save the day. The same could happen to several liberal meteo seats. Thus we can understand why the premier is being publicly cordial and nice towards Albo is unlikely to pick a fight with the fed gov to avoid giving the teals more momentum.

    It is widely believed throughout both Labor and Liberal political circles that Prue Carr is a future premier. Perhaps she might have been hesitant to run after the last election considering the premier was an enormously popular woman. If Prue was the leader now I am almost certain she’d win and win a working lower house majority at the 2023 election.

    It will be interesting to see how that night ends up – anything could occur.

  15. What a choice?
    Two extreme right-wing, socially conservative Catholics leading the two major parties.
    Fortunately, living in the safe Tory seat of Terrigal – I can vote for an independent or Green and give my 2nd preference to the ALP.
    I am one of those neanderthals who number every square and always place the Lieberals, last.

  16. Re Macca RB at 8.18 am

    Yes, the Neanderthals were a very intelligent and admirably determined type of people.

    There was a program on SBS a couple of months ago, maybe late April, based on some very recent archaeological digging (even during the pandemic) in southern England showing that groups of Neanderthals could, with organisation and bravery, take down a mammoth for food.

    If NSW Labor cannot remove Perrottet from power in 8 mths given what a stink he made of his reputation in mismanaging Omicron (still occuring by the way – compare hospitalisation rate in NSW to Vic or any other state at covidlive.com.au ) and the perpetual pong from the Porky for NY scandal (could the person who did Keating the musical please have a go at that one? – lots of material but need a lawyer or two on board), then a Neanderthal intervention to sort out the NSW branch would be welcome, if Dr Who can help.

  17. ‘then a Neanderthal intervention to sort out the NSW branch would be welcome, if Dr Who can help.’

    The premise of the NSW Right is ‘winning’. But the last 15 or so years it has actually been ‘losing’, both elections and standing within the party.

    Still a period of government and some higher quality personnel would fix a lot.

  18. I am guessing the above were written without a sense of irony or history.
    “The Neanderthals” was the name given by the Terrigals to members of the NSW Right who opposed them.
    Fortunately for the party and state Joe and Eddie sorted them out very quickly

  19. Re Oakeshott Country at 11.35 am

    I plead not guilty to lacking a sense of irony or history. As a former DFAT historian, my brief did not include investigating the use of arcane and ignorant rhetoric by members of the NSW Labor Right.

    My error was to presume an intelligent program was on SBS. Actually it was ABC. For archaeology see:

    https://www.bbc.com/mediacentre/proginfo/2021/52/attenborough-and-the-mammoth-graveyard

    That “Terrigal” monster Eddie Obeid would have been taken out with suitable alacrity if his Labor Right opponents had been, like the real Neanderthals, characterised by bravery and determination.

  20. Who was the idiot who introduced optional preference voting in NSW? The gift that keeps on giving to the disengaged and disinformed.

  21. Neville Wran in 1981
    3 cornered contests including Libs and National Country were still a thing until then.

  22. Re Oakeshott Country at 12.09 pm

    I have never had the fortune to meet Dr Rosalind Hearder. She makes a good use of anecdote, such as a comment by an old Australian prisoner of war whom she interviewed in northern NSW in 1999. See:

    https://www.awm.gov.au/articles/journal/j40/hearder

    I knew Professor David Lowe briefly 20 years ago at Deakin. He was in Japan as the Visiting Professor in Australian Studies at Tokyo University (a position hosted by the Center for Pacific and American Studies) when the pandemic began. I don’t know how soon he was able to return to Australia, nor if he is interested in the comparative performance of Australia and Japan in responding to the pandemic.

    David has a current Japanese Ph.D student writing about post-war Japan-Australia relations to the 1960s, which I wrote about in the DFAT book Facing North (volume 1), edited by David Goldsworthy.

    On the current Covid mortality comparison with Japan, Australia taken nationally has a per capita death rate of 395 per million, whereas Japan is 250. The Japanese figure is greatly understated. The real figure for Japan to the end of 2021 was estimated by experts to be around 440. See p 1520 at:

    https://www.thelancet.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0140-6736%2821%2902796-3

    Back to the topic (‘Sydney and the Bush’), what is the NSW figure? Now about 448 deaths per million (Victoria is about 604, while WA is about 148, i.e. about 90 better than the world leader Singapore).

    I do not know the real current figure for Japan, i.e. including last 6 months, but it would still be higher than NSW, probably by quite a margin, as the fourth wave of Covid in winter and spring in Japan this year was worse than previous waves. And Japan under Abe was significantly worse than NSW. See:

    https://theconversation.com/how-shinzo-abe-has-fumbled-japans-coronavirus-response-136860

    What would be remarkable would be for voters in NSW to forget the Covid shambles that Perrottet has led during the Delta and Omicron waves when they vote next March. I think (but don’t know) that the weakness of the NSW lockdown under Gladys a year ago was strongly influenced by Perrottet.

    One Lib minister in SA blamed their bad election loss in March on the unfortunate timing in relation to Covid case numbers of the election. Unless a worse variant gets to Australia during summer, the timing of the NSW election may be as easy for Perrottet as it could be in Covid terms. Time will tell.

  23. My thesis explored the interaction between the Australian medical profession and Asia.
    The history of the Colombo Plan had a meaty half chapter hence the work of David Lowe who was also the secondary supervisor (David Walker was the supervisor) and there was much use of Facing North.

    I think Rosalind was very brave in debunking the mythology of Weary Dunlop – her anecdotes about his surgical skills certainly match mine (and of most Australian surgeons of a certain age). In the early days of Colombo, Casey sent Weary to Ceylon to demonstrate surgery. The result wasn’t good. Rosalind’s father was one of the early ambassadors to SE Asia

  24. OC at 1.25

    Neville Wran in 1981
    3 cornered contests including Libs and National Country were still a thing until then.
    ____________

    I’ve read some posts on here that say changing away from optional preferential in NSW would require a referendum – is this the case?

  25. The NSW constitution is interesting. Most of it can be changed by Parliament but there are a few sections that require a referendum (mainly about changing/abolishing the LC and some election laws).

    Optional preferencing is in Schedule 7 and Section 29 of the constitution says:

    Conduct of Legislative Assembly elections
    (1) Elections of Members of the Legislative Assembly shall be conducted in accordance with the provisions of the Seventh Schedule.
    (2) Subsection (1) does not limit the power of the Legislature to make laws (being laws that do not expressly or impliedly repeal or amend any of the provisions of the Seventh Schedule and are not inconsistent with any of those provisions) for or with respect to the conduct of elections of Members of the Legislative Assembly.

    It looks to me like the repeal of optional preferences requires a referendum even though it did not require a referendum to bring it in. Doesn’t sound fair.

  26. And indeed:
    Section 7B
    7B Referendum for Bills with respect to Legislative Assembly and certain other matters
    (1) A Bill that—
    (a) expressly or impliedly repeals or amends section 11B, 26, 27, 28 or 29, Part 9, the Seventh Schedule or this section, or
    (b) contains any provision to reduce or extend, or to authorise the reduction or extension of, the duration of any Legislative Assembly or to alter the date required to be named for the taking of the poll in the writs for a general election,
    shall not be presented to the Governor for Her Majesty’s assent until the Bill has been approved by the electors in accordance with this section.

    So a referendum is required

  27. OC at 3.31 re NSW optional preferential…

    From the NSW Constitution…

    “Seventh Schedule Conduct of Legislative Assembly elections
    (Section 29)
    Part 1 Method of voting
    1 At a poll for the election of a Member of the Legislative Assembly, a voter shall be required to record his vote for 1 candidate and no more but shall be permitted to record his vote for as many more candidates as he pleases, so as to indicate in such manner as may be provided by law the candidates for whom he votes and the order of his preferences for them.”

    Has this wording always been in force, or was it brought about by legislation in 1981? If the latter, in what universe does legislation of this nature get to alter a Constitution? If the former, compulsory preferential voting was never constitutional in NSW elections, it would seem.

  28. OC at 3.37

    And indeed:
    Section 7B
    7B Referendum for Bills with respect to Legislative Assembly and certain other matters
    (1) A Bill that—
    (a) expressly or impliedly repeals or amends section 11B, 26, 27, 28 or 29, Part 9, the Seventh Schedule or this section, or
    (b) contains any provision to reduce or extend, or to authorise the reduction or extension of, the duration of any Legislative Assembly or to alter the date required to be named for the taking of the poll in the writs for a general election,
    shall not be presented to the Governor for Her Majesty’s assent until the Bill has been approved by the electors in accordance with this section.

    So a referendum is required
    ___________

    If a referendum is required for change now, it should have been required in 1981, if the NSW Constitution required altering to accommodate optional preferential. I have no recollection of a referendum that year. It seems unconstitutional for parliament to change the Constitution, then require changing the bit just changed to pass a referendum!

  29. I don’t think so
    Section 29 now allows the Legislature to add to Schedule 7 but not delete sections or amend existing sections!

    Do you think the Constitution of NSW may have been written in Sussex St?

    Was this the case in 1981? I think there is a way to find out and I will have a look

  30. OC at 4.05

    …Section 29 now allows the Legislature to add to Schedule 7 but not delete sections or amend existing sections!
    ____________

    Weird!

  31. Re Snappy Tom at 3.16 pm and Oakeshott Country at 3.31 pm

    Yes, it’s entrenched so it requires a referendum. “Tom the first and the best” pointed this out during the 4 NSW by-elections 5 months ago, leading “Sir Henry Parkes” to opine about the idiocy of Sussex St know-alls. Whether or not it’s fair is subjective. From a Labor historian’s view, it sure was stupid.

    Presumably the prince of stupidity in this case was Graham Richardson. Die Grunen had just been formed in West Germany in 1980. Any comparative research would have shown a similar development in Australia was probable soon enough (federally it took the form of the Nuclear Disarmament Party). Richardson must have known he had created a dud in NSW by 1990 at the latest, given how important Green preferences were to Labor retaining power federally then. Yet, for a fixer he never hinted there was a need to fix his old mistake, if this had been possible before Mr Frankenstein Obeid got to work.

    An inevitable consequence is that NSW has a higher informal vote at federal elections than elsewhere.

    See the table as attachment 2 (p 7) to this Qld bureaucratic paper, prepared before Qld ditched OPV:

    https://www.justice.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/80003/optional-preferential-voting-in-queensland.pdf

    Those figures are from the 2010 election, an interesting one that occurred after shenanigans in Labor, meaning there may have been a bit more interest in the outcome by less educated voters than usual.

    Average informal figures from 2022 show some improvement, but NSW still gets the wooden spoon:

    https://tallyroom.aec.gov.au/SenateInformalByState-27966.htm

    Note those are average state-wide figures, with NSW a long way behind WA and SA who are leading. Causally, it cannot be just because WA and SA voters might have better weather or even better minds.

    Some proponents of OPV seem to think most voters who exhaust do so by choice instead of ignorance. It would be hard to find evidence to prove that is the case. (Albert Langer, by the way, in an exception that proves the rule.) While evidence is scant, the fact that informal voting is usually higher in less educated electorates means proponents of OPV as based on choice not ignorance are pushing uphill.

  32. Re Oakeshott Country at 2.48 pm

    The best historians are bold as well as original, and careful. I used to see Rosalind’s father Jeremy in DFAT on occasions. He was one of a group of ex-supremos trusted with the probably tedious task of vetting old files, including deciding what phrases in old documents should not meet the public eye.

    The production process for volume 1 of Facing North was simpler and superior to that for volume 2, partly because a sort of bureaucratic panic set in about allowing any remotely or even hypothetically sensitive primary source material involving anyone from another state being released to the public.

    There was also an unfortunate occurrence that led to the insertion of a different editor for volume 2, who had carte blanche to rewrite a lot of already written and completed work. While the volume is still valuable (in the opinion of experts, e.g. Stewart Firth and Michael Wesley), you can appreciate the difference if you compare the Conclusion to volume 1 with the Conclusion to volume 2. In the latter, the other editor took it upon himself to propound the stupidity of Australia being ‘a region all of its own’, as if he was trying to one-up not only Gareth Evans (East Asian hemisphere) but Casey himself.

    You were very lucky with David Walker as your supervisor. I hope you’ve read Not Dark Yet, a classic.

  33. I think people in “less educated electorates” are just as able as the privileged to express their dissatisfaction with the duopoly of parties by making an informal vote

    The AEC undertakes surveys to guess if informals are deliberate or an error.
    When I voted informal in several Federal elections (never with OPV in stste elections) I wrote “deliberately informal” on the paper to help the AEC, while a relative always draws a penis, which I assume they accept as a deliberate choice.

    A comparison of similar surveys between state and federal elections would help determine this question

  34. Dr D: “I think (but don’t know) that the weakness of the NSW lockdown under Gladys a year ago was strongly influenced by Perrottet.

    I am from the school of thought that everything Gladys did was under the influence. I suspect she had neither a significant original thought in her head nor the wisdom to sort chaff from wheat, let alone the fortitude.

  35. “Not Dark, Yet”- a great and moving personal history. I even have a copy of the Chinese version.
    I used to work part-time for David at Deakin and later in Peking University when he first became disabled. I did some of the research for Stranded Nation particularly on the visits of Abe’s grandfather Kishi and Ngo Dinh Diem Australia in 1957

  36. Gentlemen, thank you for the pointers to David Walker. The book is on its way, and I have found this LNL from 2011. Beyond the story telling and the beauty of writing, I am particularly interested as one arguably threatened, with a loss of central vision in one eye from while differing pathology*, a similar outcome, and the (dark) spectre of progression. So far, so good; CSR does not I believe have the inevitability of degenerative MD, and interventions are available.

    (*Central Serous Retinopathy – of the causes, stress is high on the list, with emphasis on post combat stress)

    https://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/latenightlive/david-walker-not-dark-yet/3009432

  37. You will enjoy it
    David is a charming and witty man and this personal history is a masterpiece (he was criticised by some colleagues for moving from “serious” to “family” history.
    His histories on the engagement with Asia are also an easy read – “Anxious Nation” and “Stranded Nation” in particular

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