The latest of Essential Research’s fortnightly polls, which continue to limit themselves to issue questions in the wake of the great pollster failure, focuses mostly on the Israel Folau controversy. Respondents registered high levels of recognition of the matter, with 22% saying they had been following it closely, 46% that they had “read or seen some news”, and another 17% saying they were at least “aware”.
Probing further, the poll records very strong support for what seem at first blush to be some rather illiberal propositions, including 64% agreement with the notion that people “should not be allowed to argue religious freedom to abuse others”. However, question wording would seem to be very important here, as other questions find an even split on whether Folau “has the right to voice his religious views, regardless of the hurt it could cause others” (34% agree, 36% disagree), and whether there should be “stronger laws to protect people who express their religious views in public” (38% agree, 38% disagree). Furthermore, 58% agreed that “employers should not have the right to dictate what their employees say outside work”, which would seem to encompass the Folau situation.
Respondents were also asked who would benefit and suffer from the federal government’s policies over the next three years, which, typically for a Coalition government, found large companies and corporations expected to do best (54% good, 11% bad). Other results were fairly evenly balanced, the most negative findings relating to the environment (26% good, 33% bad) and, funnily enough, “older Australians” (26% good, 38% bad). The economy came in at 33% good and 29% bad, and “Australia in general” at 36% good and 27% bad. The poll was conducted last Tuesday to Saturday from a sample of 1099.
Also of note:
• A referendum on indigenous recognition may be held before the next election, after Aboriginal Affairs Minister Ken Wyatt’s announcement on Wednesday that he would pursue a consensus option for a proposal to go before voters “during the current parliamentary term”. It is clear the government would not be willing to countenance anything that went further than recognition, contrary to the Uluru Statement from the Heart’s call for a “First Nations Voice enshrined in the Constitution” – a notion derided as a “third chamber of parliament” by critics, including Scott Morrison.
• A paper in the University of Western Australia Law Review keeps the Section 44 pot astir by suggesting 26 current members of federal parliament may fall foul by maintaining a “right of abode” in the United Kingdom – a status allowing “practically the same rights” as citizenship even where citizenship has been formally renounced. The status has only been available to British citizens since 1983, but is maintained by citizens of Commonwealth countries who held it before that time, which they could do through marriage or descent. This could potentially be interpreted as among “the rights or privileges of a subject or citizen of a foreign power”, as per the disqualifying clause in Section 44. Anyone concerned by this has until the end of the month to challenge an election result within the 40 day period that began with the return of the writs on June 21. Action beyond that point would require referral by the House of Representatives or the Senate, as appropriate.
Looks like Shorten prevailed on Kitching to shelve her bipartisan defenders of the Judeo-Christian tradition Avenger style group until after the election and now she has begun operations. This is the great problem with the ALP right. At the next election she will likely be put back into the Senate by progressives in Victoria, many with no understanding of the person they have voted in.
Psyclaw:
[‘They…’]
Is there more to come?
“We’ll have blockheads on both sides of the Atlantic, another down under. Maybe briefly’s right. Nic, join Labor.”
The Axis of Blockheads.
Just saying No has always worked well throughout history.
Mavis Davis says:
Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 8:19 pm
frednk:
A personal questi0n, if you will: do you ever partake?
When I was at an age where I would have experimented I was a good Methodist. I will now drink to a maximum of two beers in a social situation. Become very Liberated have I.
I think alcohol consumption is an important part of the question.
I went to university so I Know they exist, and at the time I know how to get them if I wanted to. I have friends who have taken them. They survived and grew up to be adults no better or worse than I.
In short the war on drugs is bullshit; they are readily available; I think the only people that support it are the suppliers and some who a morally stunted.
If you legalise it, at the very least the packets can come with warnings similar to smokes. Dosage rates, purity all the stuff we get with prescribed meds.
On the down side of this view; we have effectively had opioids legalised in the USA and it has been a disaster.
nath:
[‘This is the great problem with the ALP right.’]
The Right impeded Labor’s progression to government save for ’72. The Right is an influential block, still in the ALP, on this blog. They do Labor much political harm.
Judeo-Christian tradition?
Has anyone told these blockheads that islam is just another Abraham tradition.
Lets defend the Abraham tradition and stop trying to cut islam out.
Of cause the Abraham tradition was heading in the right direction, they just stopped one god too soon.
It’s Time @ #900 Saturday, July 13th, 2019 – 6:37 pm
Bristol Palin was told to just say no and we all know how that worked out.
But more seriously, harm reduction measures are proven public health responses to drugs, alcohol and STIs. I’m inclined to accept the pill testing as an effective harm reduction measure rather than a mechanism to prevent drug use per se. Which is what I understand it was supposed to represent in the first place.
I’m not sure we have anyone on this blog who is an actual member of the Labor right – I’m not even sure we have anyone who would classify themselves as a supporter.
Mavis Davis @ #695 Saturday, July 13th, 2019 – 8:42 pm
Can we exhume Robert James Lee Hawke then and give him a right old talking to for being so harmful to the Labor Party and the nation? Or maybe just get Paul Keating up to your caravan for same?
Confessions @8:50PM.
“But more seriously, harm reduction measures are proven public health responses to drugs, alcohol and STIs. “
That brings to mind Australia’s response to the AIDS crisis in the 80’s. Far more effective than doubling down on traditional morality and jailing prostitutes and gay men. That would not have worked. It would driven those at greatest risk underground and most likely greatly exacerbated the crisis.
zoomster @ #906 Saturday, July 13th, 2019 – 6:56 pm
I don’t know who that is referring to, but in my view, the terminology of left and right is becoming increasingly anachronistic and irrelevant. I believe people coalesce around issue rather than polemics.
Steve777:
The US did ‘just say no’ in response to the HIV epidemic, and the results are available for anyone to see.
Australia did harm reduction and our results on that front are plain to see from a comparison angle.
Spoiler alert: we win.
Confessions @ #702 Saturday, July 13th, 2019 – 8:59 pm
Yes, especially when you have the so-called, ‘Industrial Left’ doing a deal with the Right in Victoria to vote together. How does that work? If they are supposed to be philosophically opposed?
zoomster:
[‘I’m not sure we have anyone on this blog who is an actual member of the Labor right…’}
Please stop the crap!
In the absence of less than probative evidence to the contrary, my picks are BB, GG.
It’s Time says:
Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 8:37 pm
For those who do maybe, for those who don’t, it’s an abject failure.
By the way what are these historical success stories for saying no?
C@tmomma:
[‘Can we exhume Robert James Lee Hawke then and give him a right old talking to for being so harmful to the Labor Party and the nation? Or maybe just get Paul Keating up to your caravan for same’?’]
Both Hawke & Keating achieved so much. I’m accordingly surprised that you’re apparently putting them down.
Happy-clappers enjoin:
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/he-s-a-strong-leader-morrison-accepts-invitation-to-visit-trump-in-us-20190713-p526w7.html
Mavis Davis says:
Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 8:42 pm
nath:
[‘This is the great problem with the ALP right.’]
The Right impeded Labor’s progression to government save for ’72. The Right is an influential block, still in the ALP, on this blog. They do Labor much political harm.
This is just rubbish. I am from the Left so have no ax to grind here. Gough was from the Right. Hawke was from the Right. Rudd was from the Right. Curtin was opposed by the Communists and had to fight the nominal Left.
I have many friends from the Right. The appellation used by Mavis is just irrelevant.
Mavis
So you have no evidence, admit you’re just guessing, but say I’m talking crap? Wow.
briefly:
Yes, dear – I too believe in fairies.
zoomster:
So as you carry on with nath, so as you’re doing with me. Please stop it!
I said from the outset tonight that I wouldn’t be provocative. I blame others for stirring the pot.
seems ALP supporters here have more problems with something Mavis said than with Kimberley Kitching starting a bipartisan defenders of Judeo-Christian action group. Perhaps she and Kevin Andrews will come up with some ideas to strengthen the Judeo-Christian tradition in Australia. I’m sure the SDA members of the ALP will also be on board.
Stuff me, nath, please stop being so intuitive.
Bringing things back to matters political.
I propose that before the Libs pending IR reforms even get off the ground, Labor needs to start referring to it as Workchoices MkII.
What say others?
DG,
Completely agree.
nath says:
Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 10:37 pm
You’re pathetic and your paranoia is showing.
When she starts advocating and promoting policy based on her religion, I’ll certainly criticise her like I would anyone else doing the same.
Until that happens you’re just jumping at shadows.
Compare and contrast. Has Dutton ever visited the shithole detention facilities Australia keeps people in?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/pence-tours-detention-facilities-at-the-border-defends-administrations-treatment-of-migrants/2019/07/12/993f54e0-a4bc-11e9-b8c8-75dae2607e60_story.html?utm_term=.c41de12a66a5
Scotty could lead a prayer group of his pentacostal mob on site in an Oz detention facility.
The next step in pill testing is very simple: they conduct a more extensive, well designed pilot trial to research it better. That’s what we do in every other area of medicine where an intervention is worth looking at.
Barney
I’m sure IT was being facetious.
Diogenes says:
Sunday, July 14, 2019 at 12:07 am
You’re probably right.
Oh for a sarcasm font!
I use an upside question mark, ¿, that I read about somewhere, when I’m being sarcastic. 🙂
The IR bill has to be depicted as an attack on the rights and dignity of working people. If it is not drawn this way, the Liberals will succeed with it. They will use it to disable unions and Labor, and to intensify the repression of working people.
Confessions says:
Saturday, July 13, 2019 at 8:59 pm
I don’t know who that is referring to, but in my view, the terminology of left and right is becoming increasingly anachronistic and irrelevant. I believe people coalesce around issue rather than polemics.
————————————–
Agree with this, when I look at the under 30s and then listen to political types and including myself in this but there are times when the language used seems increasingly out of date from how the under 30s see the world.
The language used is money! The last election used money. The MDB is about money.
Turnbull has money, his contempories wanted money more. Those coveting money perceived better access with Morrison.
Gillard, Albanese and Abbott didn’t and don’t “cut the mustard”.
Left and right, idioms only used by those without a better perception.
Many voters no longer see themselves as working class and measure all by money.
Morrison and Fry. are desperate to be seen to “kick start” the “money go round”. That’s their gamble.
Being “right” is accumulating and having access to money.
Being “left” is either not having money or having enough money to afford the luxury of being to be left.
Politics in Australia is just money. It’s why the very successful industry superannuation funds are coveted. The attack by the Liberals on industry superannuation funds is so important to disable ths Unions and workers.
The recent election result will see the workers”left””right” out.
Good morning Dawn Patrollers.
Nick O’Malley explains how Germany closed its coal industry without sacking a single miner.
https://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/how-germany-closed-its-coal-industry-without-sacking-a-single-miner-20190711-p526ez.html
Judith Ireland says Rex Patrick has cautioned community concerns over religious discrimination may have more to do with a “perception of a problem, rather than a real problem,” while asking if Australia has become “too sensitive”.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/a-perception-of-a-problem-rather-than-a-real-problem-kingmaker-senator-questions-level-of-religious-discrimination-20190711-p526d8.html
David Crowe reveals that decision to cut the headline “deeming” rate from 3.25 per cent to 3 per cent falls short of the demands from retiree groups in recent weeks, as the government rules out a more generous change so as to protect the budget surplus.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/planned-cut-to-deeming-rate-falls-short-of-pensioner-demands-20190713-p526wz.html
John Wren delves into our Prime Minister’s obsession with religion and why our nation is becoming a global joke.
https://independentaustralia.net/life/life-display/wrens-week-australia-the-laughing-stock-of-the-world,12894
Pater FitzSimons tentatively lauds the government over indigenous recognition and rubbishes Malcolm Roberts.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/bid-for-indigenous-recognition-vote-a-step-in-the-right-direction-20190712-p526q2.html
Michael West’s website spills the beans on Australia’s national parks management.
https://www.michaelwest.com.au/extinction-crisis-director-of-national-parks-slammed-by-audit-amid-decade-funding-squeeze/
Tony Wright looks at what is facing Arthur Sinodinos in Washington.
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/peril-in-the-time-of-trump-for-our-man-in-washington-20190712-p526qt.html
Following the Four Corners exposé on the Murray-Darling Basin Michelle Pini interviews two of the program’s key experts who are scathing about the Government’s management of the Basin Plan.
https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/sanctioned-water-theft,12889
Neill Brien tells us why Australia got what they deserved in the cricket World Cup semi-final at Edgbaston. Ouch!
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/world-cup-semi-final-debacle-lays-bare-australia-s-frailties-20190713-p526um.html
In an effort to stop the spread of fake news, legitimate stories may be suffering in the process.
https://independentaustralia.net/business/business-display/the-consequences-of-fighting-fake-news,12896
Cassandra Morgan writes that Australian experts are rejecting the notion of an “aged care sector”, calling on the government to implement a national “ageing strategy” instead.
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6271266/australias-culture-crisis-experts-push-to-scrap-aged-care-concept/?cs=14225
Thousands of families rushing to file their tax returns could be hit with a surprise debt instead of an expected tax offset as the federal government begins reviewing parents’ incomes for the last financial year to check they received the correct amount of childcare subsidy.
https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/6272235/parents-could-be-hit-by-nasty-surprise-when-they-file-tax-returns/?cs=14231
Ed Pilkington tells us how the US media – with one star exception – whitewashed the Epstein story.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jul/13/jeffrey-epstein-alex-acosta-miami-herald-media
Labour and the Tories have been taken over by activists who seem to care little for the voters in the UK writes Nick Cohen.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jul/13/an-unelected-prime-minister-and-bullied-mps-can-we-still-call-this-a-democracy
For nomination for “Arseholes of the Week” we have . . .
https://www.theage.com.au/business/companies/land-banking-scam-ends-up-in-supreme-court-20190711-p52687.html
Cartoon Corner
Matt Golding and indigenous recognition.
Reg Lynch lands Sinodinos in Washington.
Matt Davidson with Pence’s protection of Trump.
More from Golding.
Peter Broelman turns the tables.
Zanetti with a warning to Morrison – at least I think that’s what he’s getting at.
Glen Le Lievre’s chaotic Canberra.
From the US
David Crowe reveals that decision to cut the headline “deeming” rate from 3.25 per cent to 3 per cent falls short of the demands from retiree groups in recent weeks, as the government rules out a more generous change so as to protect the budget surplus.
So pensioners are helping to fund the surplus, not wealthy working people? I can see a problem with that line of thinking.
Thanks BK. That Matt Davidson cartoon is shocking! 😆
OPINION by Salon writer Lucian Truscott
Jeffrey Epstein is Donald Trump’s idea of the perfect man
He owned a palatial home in Palm Beach and a luxurious residence in Manhattan.
He owned a commercial airliner converted into a luxurious private plane.
He gave parties attended by young women seeking careers in the modeling business.
He was connected to numerous wealthy, powerful men who shared his taste in women and money.
He bragged to others about his sexual conquests with women.
He paid women for sex.
He was charged in lawsuits with numerous sexual assaults on women.
Jeffrey Epstein? No, Donald Trump.
I really wonder what everyone is doing getting their dander up about this disgusting sex criminal Jeffrey Epstein, when we’ve got one in the White House. We’ve known about Trump not for years, but for decades. We’ve known about his sexcapades around New York with women who were not his wife. Hell, he used to call the New York Post’s “Page Six” and brag about himself!
So forget about this sexual predator, Jeffrey Epstein. He’s in jail in downtown Manhattan awaiting trial on sex trafficking charges, and already, new witnesses are showing up, accusing him of new crimes.
We’ve got a sexual predator in the White House. The American people put Donald Trump there with their votes. It’s up to us to get him out and put him where he belongs, behind bars alongside his pal Epstein.
https://www.salon.com/2019/07/13/jeffrey-epstein-is-donald-trumps-idea-of-the-perfect-man/
Oh dear. This does not sound good at all:
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/a-perception-of-a-problem-rather-than-a-real-problem-kingmaker-senator-questions-level-of-religious-discrimination-20190711-p526d8.html
Does that mean religious nutjobs will be allowed, with the aid of the new law, to go INSIDE abortion clinics and carry out their disgusting protests!?!
“The principle is this: no one should ever be able to prevent you from, within the bounds of reason, joining a club or entering a public premises because of your age, or your sex or your race – why shouldn’t we have a law that says the same thing about your religion?”
Seems a silly way to frame the debate, more likely to worry those of religious persuasions than appease them. They’re not really big on people of other religions being able to join their club.
C@
I don’t think so – they’re not public premises in that sense. (For example, a school is owned by the state but it can evict people from its grounds because it’s not defined as public land).
…I’m actually not sure Porter knows what he means – it sounds like a great line he’s picked up without thinking it through. The only examples I can think of where religion prevents people ‘within the bounds of reason’ joining clubs or entering public premises have to do with religious organisations themselves forbidding others to join or enter.
zoomster @ #945 Sunday, July 14th, 2019 – 8:29 am
So, what about Public Hospitals? Don’t extreme religious types class Miscarriages as wrong too? Also, not sure about this, but are some abortions carried out in Public Hospitals?
‘within the bounds of reason’
I was thinking about this, myself. Who is going to determine what is ‘within the bounds of reason’? Whose boundaries will be respected? Who will be allowed to say what is reasonable and what isn’t?
He thinks this until someone of a non-christian religion claims discrimination when trying to access something christian-dominated.
C@
Well, I think he means at the moment there are clubs etc you can’t enter because of your age or gender but that these are reasonable restrictions — you can’t join the Scouts after a certain age, a woman can’t rock up to the Masonic Lodge and partake in the ‘mysteries’ (I think they’re allowed to provide tea and biscuits afterwards…) or go into the Melbourne club.
Given those examples, it’s a pretty broad brush.
I think you’d be taken out of a hospital pretty darn quickly if you hassled the patients – hospitals are actually pretty restrictive about who can be in the wards, for example.
He’s chosen a stupid example, which suggests that the more pertinent ones open to him are less acceptable.