Nothing actually further to add at this stage, but the new day requires a new thread. Please observe the plethora of new posts below for those wishing to follow late counting, and especially the fairly detailed one attempting to review the Senate situation. These extend on to the second page; I’ll do something to make them more accessible in the morning.
On the occasions when I watched parliamentary broadcasts, accommodation mostly didn’t seem to be a problem. Most of the seats were empty. Apart from calls SSO’s, the most common cry was ‘I call your attention to the state of the House’.
well any one that sees abbott as
what was pleased a lefty saying that
well I really think it s time to for get this place
some on the left agreeing with abbott
my good what don’t believe it
“
[On the occasions when I watched parliamentary broadcasts, accommodation mostly didn’t seem to be a problem. ]
As I’ve already said, the problem is not space in the chambers. It’s office accommodation.
Id just note that Rudd is no doubt considering all these things.
Howard didnt face this particular issue, since the good burghers of Bennelong made the call for him. 🙂
So we have to go back a ways: but Im reasonably sure Keating didnt resign his seat on the night.
In this case,Im a bit unconfortable about Rudd doing so,as I reasonbly certain the ALP would lose Griffith to anyone but him. Maybe 6-12 months, like Costello did.
o well that’s it logging off from the palace of bad news
this place represents to me
people who love giving bad news about alp and seem to enjoy it
realy time to retire
Shows On -it didn’t pass in 1967. The old DLP’s finest hour was to be the only opposition to an emmenently sensible suggestion. The result 60:40 with only NSW carrying. The indigenous referendum was passed the same day.
The experts seem to think that even though Mirabella is trailing at present, the late count will favour her and she will probably hang on.
My say, issues like electoral reform are by definition cross -party issue, and he’s about to be the PM.
Dont get prolier than thou with me, thanks. This actually matters: its a stain on our democracy.
lol at the AUstralian Motoring Enthusiasts party key policies.
Finally! a voice for Australians who seek the right to modify cars however they choose for personal expression!
We’ll just get all our politicians to work from home. With the NBN … oh wait.
[The experts seem to think that even though Mirabella is trailing at present, the late count will favour her and she will probably hang on.]
Seriously? This morning I checked she was 350 in front, now she is 1780 or so behind.
[We’ll just get all our politicians to work from home. ]
That’s a much better idea. They could all just Skype into the building from their EOs.
Mayeb they could work ‘from node’, Displayname
The territories are not guaranteed that number of senators if they become state only the original states are. Howard’s proposal suggested a much smaller number – 4 from memory.
I like how Wayne Swan ruled hmself out from the leadership. LOL.
Joel Fitzgibbon should rule himself out too: just fer the larfs.
[The territories are not guaranteed that number of senators if they become state only the original states are. Howard’s proposal suggested a much smaller number – 4 from memory.]
I think they should get 12 cos it would favour the ALP.
[I like how Wayne Swan ruled hmself out from the leadership. LOL.]
Fortunately the leadership had already ruled itself out from Swan.
Rumour on Crikey that Dutton ‘doesnt want the Health Portfolio’.
I dont see whats new about this story.
*tries to imagine a flock of Pollies sitting on an ugly box*
3706
The 1967 Parliament Referendum followed the usual pattern of states populations being in proportion with their yes vote except that the DLP`s strongest state of Victoria where it got only 30% (lower than QLD and SA). A majority of voters in those two referenda voted differently in the 2 referenda.
It think that on balance it is a good thing that the nexus was saved. It protects the Senate from being shrunk to attack minor parties.
I hope they don’t chew it up!
[Rumour on Crikey that Dutton ‘doesnt want the Health Portfolio’.
I dont see whats new about this story.]
He has shown complete disinterest in it for the last 5 years.
A more interesting rumour would be that Dutton had expressed interest in it.
[It think that on balance it is a good thing that the nexus was saved. It protects the Senate from being shrunk to attack minor parties.]
I think Labor and Liberal will team up in the new parliament to set a 3 or 4% cut off for senate elections. If you don’t get that vote you get excluded and your preferences distributed immediately.
They will also increase fees and signatures required to register a party and / or get an above the line spot.
3716
The NT is actually fairly politically even. It would not favour either side. It would probably favour the Greens though, especially as if the NT gets 12, then the more populous ACT should have them as well (which would favour the combined numbers of the ALP and Greens).
[The territories are not guaranteed that number of senators if they become state only the original states are. Howard’s proposal suggested a much smaller number – 4 from memory.]
If the NT is worthy of statehood, it’s worthy of 12 Senators. The Senate is based on equal representation for the states, regardless of population. There is no logical ground on which a state of North Australia could be denied the full entitlement.
I seem to recall that Howard thought Dutton was a great candidate, and a future leader.
Just shows how wrong the old coconut could be.
3724
Both measures are quite likely.
Do you think that anything will happen to ticket voting?
[The NT is actually fairly politically even. It would not favour either side. It would probably favour the Greens though, especially as if the NT gets 12, then the more populous ACT should have them as well (which would favour the combined numbers of the ALP and Greens).]
The ACT cannot become a state, because its existence is specified in the Constitution.
3695
Unless MPs were allowed to vote from their offices, it would not remove the 4 minute requirement. Is that why the fingerprint requirement?
ALP: 3,620,746 / 33.8%
LIB: 3,399,057 / 31.8%
77.3% Completed Counting:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/federal-election-2013/results/party-totals/
Could not the ACT get more 3-year senators though?
I know the senate has no regard for population for good reason, but they should at least be pegged to match the least populous state of Tasmania, on representative principles.
Tas has 12 for 500,000 people, ACT could have more than 2 for its 380,000.
[ALP: 3,620,746 / 33.8%
LIB: 3,399,057 / 31.8%]
That doesn’t include LNP candidates in Qld, so it’s not a meaningful comparison.
Becoming Labor leader now might be a bit like a science fiction story about a starship that will take centuries to make its journey at sub-light speed (I.e. obeying the known laws of physics). Those who originally set out don’t get to see the promised land but their descendants eventually do. History says it’s likely be six to twelve years – an eternity in politics. But that’s not written in stone. We’ve had a woman PM, we’ve had minor parties elected to the HOR, including a new party. What swings one way in 3 years can swing back. But it needs a Bob Hawke or a Gough Whitlam. Albo, a decent man in the Kim Beazley mode, doesn’t seem to be the one. Nor does Bill Shorten. Would Albo be willing to be a caretaker for a year or so?
[Unless MPs were allowed to vote from their offices, it would not remove the 4 minute requirement. Is that why the fingerprint requirement?]
Well I just suggest a finger print scanner as a mechanism so that only the elected senator / MHR can vote. If they can’t get to their office where the finger print scanner is or to the chamber then their vote can’t count. They shouldn’t be able to get someone to proxy vote for them.
3726
It is much smaller and thus would increase the malapportionment of the Senate.
Equality of size is good from a minor party point of view and an Indigenous representation point of view.
[I know the senate has no regard for population for good reason, but they should at least be pegged to match the least populous state of Tasmania, on representative principles.]
The Senate represents states, not people. The territories are lucky to have any Senators at all.
3729
I did not say it should become a state, just that it should not have fewer Senators than the NT which has a lower population.
[It is much smaller and thus would increase the malapportionment of the Senate.]
So what? The Senate represents states, not people.
Could I suggest you all go and read J A La Nauze, “The Making of the Australian Constitution”?
@Psephos/3733
Didn’t say they were :/
[I did not say it should become a state, just that it should not have fewer Senators than the NT which has a lower population.]
Population is irrelevant to numbers in the Senate.
3737
You seem to have contempt for the voters of the ACT.
[Population is irrelevant to numbers in the Senate.]
So are votes, these days. I bet that isnt in La Nauze.
Not staying tonight as there hasn’t been much movement in the vote counting today. However, just a couple of thoughts about the Parliament space problem that seems to be occupying the collective wisdom here:
1. If you need to find space in a building consult a Lebanese builder- solved
2. If you need to find office space within 4 minutes, why not just change standing orders to 10 minute bells (then 1 minute for the next division)? There is a lot of wasted time in the division process as well which could easily be cut down- solved
3. If 1 and 2 don’t work, just cut the parliament and Senate down by 10-15%. What is wrong with 4 Senators per State, then you can let the Territories become States as well- solved
Yes, yes, put it to the people and change the constitution…..like….WOTTEVA. As if the Australian public would say no to less pollies.
Let me know if you need me to solve any of Australia’s other burning issues, but it will need to wait until tomorrow.
Good night.
So whatever happened to that “recognise local government blah blah blah” referendum? Did it even happen?
[You seem to have contempt for the voters of the ACT.]
*Sigh*
Australia is a federation of states. Part of the federal compact was equal representation of the states in a strong Senate. The smaller colonies would not have agreed to federation otherwise. The territories are not part of that compact. They have representation in the Reps based on population. Logically, they shouldn’t have seats in the Senate at all, but in 1975 it agreed to give them “token” representation. The NT is eligible to become a state. If it does, it will become a party to the federal compact and be entitled to 12 Senators. The ACT cannot become a state, so it will have to settle for its token Senators. Sorry, but I didn’t write the Constitution. (In fact it was written by a Queenslander and a Tasmanian, and they knew what they were doing.)
@Mod Lib/3744
Perhaps we can cut down a number of Coalition MP’s – problem solved.
3741
I am sure that Whitlam did not think that when he gave them only 2.
You seem big on states rights over people rights on this issue. States rights, rather than states as a means of implementing people`s rights, has a long and nasty history of horrible things
We have plenty to spare, so no arguments from me! :devil:
Solution #4 (my fav): Abolish the States altogether- solved