Tuesday, November 24
Comments thread troublemaker Frank Calabrese has caught the attention of The West Australian’s Inside Cover.
Saturday, November 14
The Fremantle Herald reports Gerry Georgatos is forming a new party he proposes to call the “Real Greens”. Such a name would certainly not be permissible under the Commonwealth Electoral Act, but the state’s Electoral Act does not contain a provision equivalent to that prohibiting a name which “a reasonable person would think suggests that a connection or relationship exists between the party and a registered party if that connection or relationship does not in fact exist” (which was designed to disqualify Liberals for Forests and others like it). Georgatos also disputes Lynn MacLaren’s denial last week that she had been behind the preselection of Hsien Harper, saying she had previously admitted this to him.
UPDATE: I’ve been provided with a more in-depth version of the same article, presumably from the Melville or Cockburn version of the Herald.
Sunday, November 8
The Sunday Times reports Georgatos will be directing preferences to Labor:
Labor candidate Peter Tinley’s chances of winning the Willagee state by-election have been boosted, with independent Gerry Georgatos giving preferences to Labor at the November 28 poll. Mr Georgatos, who unsuccessfully sought pre-selection for Willagee for the Greens, said apart from himself, he believed Mr Tinley was the best candidate. He said Greens candidate Hsien Harper was a “good person”, but he believed Mr Tinley was a better candidate. Mr Georgatos denied giving Labor his preferences as payback for not being pre-selected.
Friday, November 6
This week’s Fremantle Herald features a letter from Greens MLC Lynn MacLaren (right) in which she rejects claims the branch meeting that preselected Hsien Harper was stacked, saying the party’s “consensus decision-making” means “branch stacking isn’t possible”. One who begs to differ is Steve Walker, who has told the paper he quit because of “the appalling dishonesty and branch-stacking within the party”. Notwithstanding that he is no longer involved with the party, Walker claims the Willagee preselection was “all the handiwork of Lynn”, whom he labels “the Brian Burke of the Greens”. The paper also corrects its assertion last week that Walker’s gripe had been that he was overlooked for preselection in Fremantle at the expense of Adele Carles – his aspirations had in fact been for the South Metropolitan seat currently occupied by MacLaren. Walker then proceeded to run as an independent, and lodged an above-the-line preference ticket which was punitive with respect to MacLaren personally: while her Greens running mate Scott Ryan was put second, MacLaren was placed behind all major party candidates (since MacLaren was elected anyway, the real impact of his votes was to help elect the Liberals’ Phil Edman ahead of Labor’s Fiona Henderson).
The Herald page linked to above also profiles Christian Democratic Party candidate Henri Chew, and informs us a candidates’ forum will be held at 7:30pm on Wednesday, November 25 (three days before the by-election) at Melville Senior High School’s performing arts hall. There are ads in the paper for Hsien Harper on page one and Peter Tinley on page three, scans of which appear below.
Friday, October 30
The hugely eventful comments thread for this post has made headlines, providing source material for the front page lead story in this weekend’s Fremantle Herald (the Georgatos letter referred to at the end of the scanned article is an edited version of this comment). At issue is the manner in which Hsien Harper was installed as Greens candidate at the expense of Gerry Georgatos, who was preselected earlier in the year when it was felt Alan Carpenter might join Jim McGinty in allowing for a by-election on the same day as the daylight saving referendum in May. Georgatos indicated he was in favour of nominations being reopened when Carpenter did eventually pull the plug, but “party insiders” cited by the Herald say he was “pushed into the decision”. Hsien Harper’s backers got the better of the ensuing preselection meeting, prompting opponents to complain it had been stacked. Georgatos subsequently nominated as an independent, and was promptly forced out of the party.
The sidelining of Georgatos is believed to have occurred largely at the instigation of Lynn MacLaren, member for the corresponding upper house region of South Metropolitan. As the Herald puts it: “About 20 unhappy supporters have since been venting spleens on the Poll Bludger website, with one saying ‘okay, like the others I am a Green – [Lynn] MacLaren and [a] few others knifed him’.” It has been said that Georgatos was felt not to have paid his (metaphorical) party dues; that the campaign might suffer from what one aggrieved comments thread contributor describes as his “outspoken qualities”; and that a candidate with Harper’s union background would in any case be a better bet in a traditional Labor electorate like Willagee.
The dispute also appears to have opened old wounds relating to Adele Carles’s recruitment as candidate for Fremantle at the 2008 election, with some in the party said to have unhappy memories of her as an independent rival to erstwhile upper house MP Jim Scott when he ran in Fremantle in 2005. The nomination of Carles came at the expense of Steve Walker (UPDATE: Or so the Herald reported, but it appears not – see below), described by the Herald as a “founding member” and “loyal warrior for the Greens in various campaigns”. Here too tactical motivations were thought to have been in play, with Carles’s professional background, conservative presentation and young family greatly assisting the party when it sought to win over the Liberal voters who ultimately decided the by-election in her favour (UPDATE 2: The Fremantle Herald confirms it erred in linking Walker to the Fremantle preselection in the next week’s edition – see the entry above).
The ABC’s Peter Kennedy writes about the by-election here, and discusses it here. I’ve also scanned in a full-page Labor ad from the Fremantle Herald – click on the thumbnail to the left for a full view.
UPDATE: Minutes later, Greens convenor Scott Ryan responds:
There are substantial errors of fact in the Herald article that are repeated on your site. Steve Walker did not attempt to pre-select for the State seat of Fremantle in 2008. Adele Carles was preselected unopposed. Steve had already left the party after unsuccessfully nominating for South Metropolitan, choosing to contest that as an independent. Any suggestion that Walker was dumped for Carles is entirely fictitious.
I am not aware of any discomfort over Adele running as an independent in the same election as Jim Scott. She ran on coastal issues and to the best of my memory swapped preferences 2-2. If there are some members who have “unhappy memories” of this, I can of course not rule it out – though it’s nothing I’ve ever heard expressed in years of service to the Fremantle Greens.
As for the remainder of the story, The Greens have not attempted to officially respond to the comments on the site and will not be drawn into debate on that level. Allegations contained within are simply preposterous and delusional.
I have personally maintained communication with Gerry and he maintains that the process was fair and appropriate, and that he was not pushed into re-opening nominations.
I realise that what is said can never be unsaid and perhaps the original posters simply had no idea how damaging their comments would be to Gerry’s campaign and to ours. I am disappointed that the Herald has resorted to cut-and-paste journalism without the fact-checking step in between.
Thursday, October 22
Nominations have closed and the ballot paper order has been drawn, with a modest field of four candidates. Intriguingly, one of the four is Gerry Georgatos, who earlier gave every indication of being relaxed about the re-opening of Greens nominations which ultimately saw him make way for Hsien Harper. The ballot paper order runs Henri Chew (Christian Democratic Party); Peter Tinley (Labor); Hsien Harper (Greens); Gerry Georgatos (Independent).
Wednesday, October 21
The Greens have preselected Hsien Harper, an organiser for the Community and Public Sector Union who ran in Willagee at the 2005 election. Harper was also the party’s candidate for Maylands at last year’s state election, and at the Murdoch by-election earlier in the year.
Sunday, October 18
The Liberals confirmed on Friday they would not be fielding a candidate. The Greens have issued a statement to clarify their reopening of preselection:
The Fremantle-Tangney regional group of The Greens met on Tuesday the 6th of October to discuss opening of nominations for Willagee, selecting a 2-week process for nomination and selection. This process will conclude at a meeting on Tuesday the 20th of October with the selection and announcement of a candidate. Prior to the Fremantle by-election, the Greens chose to not only pre-select a candidate for Fremantle but also for Willagee, expecting a small chance that Alan Carpenter may resign at the same time as Jim McGinty. As this did not occur we elected not to announce the candidate publicly, thinking that it may be seen as an arrogant, provocative or disrespectful move. The candidate selected at the time was Gerry Georgatos. Seven months have passed since the original process, and while there is no question of validity in the previous process, the political landscape has changed somewhat after the victory in Fremantle. Many new members joined in the surge of enthusiasm and the overall chemistry of the party feels a little different. With these issues in mind a proposal was put to the Fremantle-Tangney group to consider re-opening nominations. Gerry himself was joint author of this proposal, stating to the Fremantle Herald (Oct 3) “I feel that I should not hold [the branch] to a decision made seven months ago and would rather ask the members if they want more input. The Greens and I do business differently to the [other] political brands – it’s got to be participatory democracy or there isn’t democracy”. Gerry intends to nominate again as part of the new process.
Tuesday, October 13
Chalpat Sonti of WAtoday reports November 28 has been set by Speaker Grant Woodhams as the date for the by-election (hat tip: Frank Calabrese).
Monday, October 12
The ABC TV news reports, from sources unnamed, that the by-election is believed likely to be held on November 28.
Saturday, October 10
The Fremantle Herald reports Greens state convenor Scott Ryan saying the party will “open up the preselection process again”, despite having preselected “university guild manager Gerry Georgatos” in February when it was thought Carpenter might head for the exit to allow for a by-election on the same day as the daylight saving referendum.
Wednesday, October 7
LATE: Paul Lampathakis of the Sunday Times reports Peter Tinley has been unanimously preselected by Labor’s 16-member administration committee.
EARLY: The ABC reports there are five candidates for Labor preselection: the aforementioned Tinley and Hume, “Labor branch officials” Tony Toledo and Greg Wilton, and Stephen Dawson, former chief-of-staff to Carpenter government Environment Minister David Templeman. Rewi Lyall in comments hears the latter has been endorsed by the party’s Left caucus. Contra the Fremantle Herald, David McEwan is not on the list.
Friday, October 2
The Fremantle Herald reports two further candidates for Labor preselection: Dave Hume, who made a quixotic run against Peter Tagliaferri for the Fremantle preselection and is currently a candidate for Hilton ward in the Fremantle council elections, and David McEwan, an “environmental lawyer involved in the campaign to stop the extension of Roe Highway through the Beeliar wetlands”.
Monday, September 28
Robert Taylor of The West Australian reports Dave Kelly has confirmed he will not be a candidate for preselection. That gives pole position to Peter Tinley, who it so happens lives in Beaconsfield – not in the electorate, but very close to it. Taylor further reports the Greens candidate is expected to be “lawyer and environmental campaigner Graeme McEwan”. CORRECTION: Had the wrong end of the handle here. McEwan is not a Green; Taylor does not say exactly what he is, but I’m presuming he’s a Liberal (although I would have thought it unlikely they would field a candidate).
Sunday, September 27
A report by Paul Lampathakis of the Sunday Times suggests I may have spoken too soon in anointing Dave Kelly as the likely Labor candidate: Peter Tinley, the former SAS officer and Iraq war veteran who unsuccessfully contested Stirling at the 2007 federal election, has confirmed he will nominate, and is the only potential candidate listed in the article. Labor state secretary Simon Mead is quoted saying the preselection will be conducted “within ten days”. The Lampathakis article quotes unnamed Labor figures lambasting Carpenter for not timing his departure to allow for the poll to be held concurrently with the Fremantle by-election and daylight saving referendum on May 16; relatedly, Rebecca Carmody writes in the Sunday Times that Alannah MacTiernan should “do the right thing” and go now so that the Willagee by-election can coincide with one for Armadale.
Friday, September 25
Former WA Premier Alan Carpenter has just announced on the ABC’s Stateline program that he will resign from parliament next Friday. This will initiate a by-election in his safe Labor seat of Willagee, located just down the road from the Poll Bludger’s humble abode in Fremantle. Likely Labor candidate: Dave Kelly, state secretary of the Liquor Hospitality and Miscellaneous Union.
For non-local observers excited by the prospect of a by-election in the seat neighbouring Fremantle, I have assembled a few stats for cold shower purposes. Unfortunately, the census figures are based on boundaries from before the one-vote one-value redistribution – Fremantle’s would still be pretty accurate, but Willagee would have gotten a bit wealthier. “MFY” stands for median family income.
| WILLAGEE | FREMANTLE | |
| ALP 2008 | 51.7% | 38.7% |
| LIB 2008 | 30.9% | 30.2% |
| GRN 2008 | 17.4% | 27.6% |
| ALP 2005 | 47.9% | 43.8% |
| LIB 2005 | 25.1% | 26.8% |
| GRN 2005 | 9.0% | 17.1% |
| Professionals | 17.7% | 29.2% |
| MFY | $1,137 | $1,313 |
| Mortgages | 35.0% | 26.9% |
| Family households | 65.5% | 56.9% |
| Public housing | 33.6% | 19.6% |
[Please let us know when you find that “dynamite audio” will you Frank rather than the damp squib which was in Inside Co.ver today]
It ain’t a damp squid – it’s a major embarrassment for mother sien and proves she’s needs to be told how to perform like a dolphin at Sea world.
[It ain’t a damp squid – it’s a major embarrassment for mother sien and proves she’s needs to be told how to perform like a dolphin at Sea world.]
I sure she is now crying tears of pain and sorrow into her pillow and screaming “Curse that Frank Calabrese, he has outsmarted us again. Why me? Boo hoo”.
Or alternatively she has brushed it off and moved on already. Who cares?
[I sure she is now crying tears of pain and sorrow into her pillow and screaming “Curse that Frank Calabrese, he has outsmarted us again. Why me? Boo hoo”.
Or alternatively she has brushed it off and moved on already. Who cares?]
Keep denying the reality that this is has embarrassed the party and how poorly their campaign has been run.
[Keep denying the reality that this is has embarrassed the party and how poorly their campaign has been run.]
It has not been a very high profile campaign for anyone has it?
I must admit to finding the whole thing a little underwhelming.
[It has not been a very high profile campaign for anyone has it?
I must admit to finding the whole thing a little underwhelming.]
Stopped believing the hubris as sprouted by the faithful ?
some loyalist you are.
There is a difference between being a loyal member of the party who is capable of some reasonable political analysis (which I am) and a political cheerleader whose every comment is so one eyed as to be devoid of any real content (which you are).
[There is a difference between being a loyal member of the party who is capable of some reasonable political analysis (which I am) and a political cheerleader whose every comment is so one eyed as to be devoid of any real content (which you are).]
You could’ve fooled me. Reasonable political analasys ?? Where every second post when challenged resorts to personal abuse directed at the poster.
Shall I call Windscreen O’Brien to repair yet another shattered Jaw ? 🙂
This thread is hilarious.
Gerry’s won because he has a good vibe from doorknocking. (news from someone who’s doorknocked in 20 elections: people are ALWAYS nice to you when you doorknock).
And this fun green logic. People who have been in the military should only be in Federal Parliament because… they don’t have empathy? and you need empathy to be a State member, but not a Federal member? Thousands of refugee and climate change activists might disagree with you there Luke. What a load of shit.
Or is that only officers? Do grunts have more empathy, therefore they might be allowed in State parliament? The greens would preselect a sergeant but not a lieutenant? Where’s the line?
There are many more skills required to be an effective member of parliament than empathy and compassion. Try:
– knowing how to win elections
– being organised
– being efficient and professional
– understanding politics, economics and social issues
– being good with people
I’m not sure why having been a military or naval officer rules anyone out of any parliament in Australia.
It seems that the greens, having won one (1) state seat, now believe they’ve changed the face of WA politics and that the public will only elect ’empathetic’ and ‘compassionate’ people.
News, Luke: The upper house is still full of ex real estate agents, accountants, farmers, lawyers, journalists, unionists and teachers who belong to major parties because that is the way to affect what happens in government. The greens may have come of age with an ugly preselection, but they’ve still got a long way to go to be widely electable and they need to act a bit more like a party instead of banging on about empathy, compassion, and ‘vision’ (I have lots of visions but they’re not going to happen just because I have them).
Bah, this is toxic. Over and out, for now.
[Comments thread troublemaker Frank Calabrese has caught the attention of The West Australian’s Inside Cover.]
And have no regrets whatsoever 🙂
pressfortime, I love you
To DMX,
You talk shit.
Of course I know who you are. However I would always chat with you, and you can move away from your factional history and as I wrote I genuinely wish you well with your endeavours and good on you.
In terms of Mat’s project, good on him, I like Mat and he is a great guy. However let us correct your lies. “Lying” is a word you have been throwing around in your sycophantic attacks and outright dislike of me because you can’t move away from the myths of the past. You and BOP, flat-mates, have conducted nothing but a mere, if not smear, hate campaign because you choose to live in the one-sidedness of a past that you live only in your mind.
Mat did not have the computer program going he at one time had before my time at Murdoch when I arrived (Dec, 2004). It wasn’t happening then. I only understand of the program in as such as that he recycled some computers and sold them cheaply to students either from the Guild, or on stalls at Bush Court. I don’t think there was a heavy volume of them – I don’t know. When I came to the Guild it was littered with computer parts that in time I triaged, disbursed and cleaned out as they were an occupational and safety hazard. The program may have been in the past, however it was great kind Mat provided this service.
The program I began was BEFORE I came to the Guild, not subsequent. It started in my home. I brought on the program to Council (Secretariat) to bring on to the Guild for students. Actually mate, they did not support it at that time however I finally was able through PEMS to work the program through. So liar pants on fire the program began in my home during 2004, the Guild did not have anything of the such at that time, however through Mat and Ray I am aware of it in the past. However the 8Ball program donates mostly for free its computers to students at all universities in WA, to schools, to communities and to schools and communities overseas. The 8Ball program has recycled 50,000 computers, how are you comparing this to any other program? To our knowledge WE ARE the most voluminous recycler of computers in the country!
The program’s volunteers receive transcript mentions for their contributions on their university transcripts and other acknowledgments, and we go through 20 student and community volunteers a year.
DMX, I am not here to argue with you or to change your mind about your rose coloured views of a past that you misperceive and grip so passionately, however stop the lying and the stinking smears and go out and do the good that you have the opportunity to now do, and get on with your life and I hold you in no less regard or goodwill than I did then and I will always wish you well, and if you wish to share a beer, coffee or chat instead of presumably hiding behind a cowardly nom de plum then cool. It’s never hard feelings with me. I don’t do grudges, not you, not BOP, not even MacLaren and others.
BOP, you’re the same, you talk and write shit. You too live in la la land. Use that mathematical brain of yours for logic. You talk crap about Guild history, my roles in the university, etc, etc, etc, that is what happens when you live ‘factionalism’. I will have no bar of siding with one side over another, or factions.
Whatever acrimony exists from some in the university over my stances in support of others, students, staff, issues however surveys of students show that I am the most respected and trusted person at the university, and likewise surveys of staff show that I am the most respected and trusted person at the university – these surveys return me with over 50% of each primary vote and those at second were no more than 10% – so go figure BOP and DMIX on all that you claim and purport.
With the Greens, I was their endorsed candidate, they chose me as their candidate, and I was for 7 months – what happened was not that I ‘pissed’ anyone off rather that one person bought into lies about my advocacy from the university and elsewhere and rather than raise them honestly with me, to her regret and shame, she went about to covertly remove me thinking this mis-perception about me would unstabilise the reputation of the Greens – well she was wrong to do so, wrong to not advise me, wrong to not organise a process to investigate and if necessary remedy and wrong to cheat on the night of the pre-selection. Now, to let you know other members of the Greens are not happy, two further members of the pre-selection meeting yesterday raised their concern with me about what the Greens did that night, about Lyn’s behaviour and that they plan to address it.
I will let you know that because I do care about the Greens and their pursuit of their balance and check and all that they espouse, though I want the Greens to receive a message from the voters to get their act together, I have been trying to work with the Greens parliamentarians right throughout this manifest debacle, to ensure remedy, sort this all out so they do not have to do this type of crap again which undermines themselves – politics should not be a game – and I will continue to work with them even as a non-member of the Greens throughout the summer work – they have to be genuine, and I am trying through Watson and the others to remedy what some of them have already admitted was wrong and improper. There you go.
Okay, back to business. It’s nice today please enjoy it.
To the rest of you, please consider emailing everyone you know to vote for me and get in this person, with the knowledge, skills, capacity, well-meaning and ‘outspokenness’ to change the face of parliament and make the things that we all want to happen. Ask everyone to consider emailing everyone they know and so on in pursuit of pulling off what at this time seems impossible. However there’s time. Many thanks.
Love, Gerry
(Written and Authorised, Gerry Georgatos, Independent Candidate for Willagee, 9 Arion Avenue, Harrisdale, 6112)
Oops, pressfortime was pressed for time and accidentally referred to the “Upper House” instead of “Lower House” being full of various people of various types who belong to major parties.
I acknowledge that there of course are a number of empathetic & compassionate greens in the Upper House, where their main achievement to date has been to scupper electoral reform and talk about being visionary, empathetic & compassionate, while distinctly NOT touchy-feely labor ministers such as Alannah MacTiernan and Jim McGinty have used their ruthless political styles to build a railway line and achieve gay and lesbian law reform.
Gerry good on you for being well meaning. However: Lots of people mean well but it’s action that achieves change, not intentions. You’ll need to stop your head expanding or you won’t be able to fit it out the door to go and vote on Saturday.
Guessing games can be fun I suppose.
ALP – 55%
Green – 24%
CDP – 8%
Ind – 3%
Informal – 10%
Hey Pressfortime, who do you think I am? Just well-meaning and a ‘talker’? My whole argument in this election has been the ‘best candidate’. The one with the runs on the board, the background, the knowledge, the demonstration of all this, the real record, the achievements, the actions – that is me! I am the one who has created, developed and produced – THE OTHERS HAVE NOT. Therefore now that you know this I expect your vote. Show me what the ‘actions’ of the others are? (few, if any) and I’ll list you mine, though it’ll be a longer blog than usual. Don’t worry about my head fitting through the doors on Saturday, never had that problem before.
Love, Gerry
(Authorised and Written by Gerry Georgatos, Independent Candidate for Willagee, 9 Arion Avenue, Harrisdale, 6112)
Well, I don’t mean to be presumptuous, but I assume that as a minimum Peter Tinley might include in his achievements of creation, development and production:
Local father
Former soldier
Small businessman
Part of our community
I guess it’s on the basis of this record that you’ve decided to give him your second preferences.
And you can add not having the CFMEU to cause any trouble – Mother Hsien and Co can have him 🙂
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/11/25/2752723.htm
[And you can add not having the CFMEU to cause any trouble]
The phrase “outside the tent pissing in” comes to mind 🙂
[The phrase “outside the tent pissing in” comes to mind :-)]
Great self analysis of Mother Sien and her fellow Green Acolytes.
Frank – The Greens do not have an affiliate structure such as the ALP, so unions can’t be members. I would not expect Kevin Reynolds to apply to join the Greens and neither would I expect him to be accepted as a member. Do you have some issues with unions being involved in the ALP or is it just the CFMEU/this individual?
Gerry – your relentless self promotion on this site has confirmed for me that you were using the Greens solely as a vehicle for your own pursuits, and in fact had significant policy disagreements with them. On that basis I am more than comfortable that you were not re-endorsed and would not recommend a vote for you. However, I do wish you good luck with your future endeavours.
[Frank – The Greens do not have an affiliate structure such as the ALP, so unions can’t be members. I would not expect Kevin Reynolds to apply to join the Greens and neither would I expect him to be accepted as a member. Do you have some issues with unions being involved in the ALP or is it just the CFMEU/this individual?]
Learn to read gthe CFMEU quitting the AL is the best thing that happened to the party, oh and the Greens won’t accept KR as a member, yet are happy for the CFMEU’s donations.
Double standards from Windscreen O’Briens best ever customer.
It’s funny the issue of affiliated unions should come up.
I understand that the union for which Hsien Harper worked prior to the campaign (and may still work for), the CPSU, recently reaffiliated with the ALP.
Is that right?
[It’s funny the issue of affiliated unions should come up.
I understand that the union for which Hsien Harper worked prior to the campaign (and may still work for), the CPSU, recently reaffiliated with the ALP.
Is that right?]
Funny that – classic case of pots and kettles from the customers of Windscreen O’Briens.
Frank, learn to read – I asked if you had an issue with unions in general, the CFMEU or just Kevin Reynolds. But as you are such a reductionist tw*t I shan’t respond to you again.
Yes, Rewi, affiliation of unions (and union donations) is an interesting issue – I’ll be interested to see if there is any Federal action on donations reform coming from the Green Paper, especially with the NSW bill to ban developer donations. Unfortunately, banning all donations might mean increasing funding of parties, and I don’t see either side of politics particularly interested in pushing that hard.
[Frank, learn to read – I asked if you had an issue with unions in general, the CFMEU or just Kevin Reynolds. But as you are such a reductionist tw*t I shan’t respond to you again.]
Called Windscreen O’Briens yet for another Jaw replacement ?
Stewart J,
Oooh, bait and switch! Deftly done.
And where has Heavy Kevvie’s money been going since 2000 if it wasn’t t the ALP ?
[But the house erupted into outraged cries when Mr Rudd deferred questions about campaign donations to the National Secretary of the party.
“Does the honourable member seriously expect the leader of any political party to have available to him details concerning campaign finances,” Mr Rudd said.
Mr Rudd later told the house the Federal Labor Party had advised him that since 2000, it had not received any donations from the construction division of WA’s CFMEU.]
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/6515785/rudd-welcomes-cfmeu-split/
[Stewart J,
Oooh, bait and switch! Deftly done.]
And I thought Fishing was against Greens policy as it damaged the environment ?
[And where has Heavy Kevvie’s money been going since 2000 if it wasn’t t the ALP ?]
Ummm…to the ALP in WA.
[ And where has Heavy Kevvie’s money been going since 2000 if it wasn’t t the ALP ?
Ummm…to the ALP in WA.]
Now about your fellow disciples in Tasmania ?
http://www.themercury.com.au/article/2009/02/03/53195_tasmania-news.html
Rung Windscreen O’Briens yet for yet ANOTHER Jaw Replacement ?
Personally I don’t have a particular problem with a salaried organizer of a Labor-affiliated union running against the ALP – all of us enjoy freedom of political expression after all.
Is there any good reason why anyone would have a problem with this? Is it potentially embarassing to the union leadership, for example?
Is it possible that, despite membership of another party, a union organizer could be elected as a delegate for their union – not as a lay member – to, for example, the ALP State conference, in the unlikely event that they’d want to?
I’m sure there must be someone around who knows the rules better than I do…
[Is it possible that, despite membership of another party, a union organizer could be elected as a delegate for their union – not as a lay member – to, for example, the ALP State conference, in the unlikely event that they’d want to?]
Rewi,
No specific mention but perhaps this may help.
[5.3 Credentials
5.3.1 Conference delegates or proxy delegates must be financial members of the ALP.
5.3.1.2 Provided that delegates and proxy delegates representing affiliated
Unions must also be members of that affiliated Union as well.
5.3.1.3 Where the credential of any delegate or proxy delegate is challenged
relating to their failure to comply with Rule 5.3.1.2, for the purpose of
these Rules, written notice from the Secretary or President of the
relevant affiliated Union stating that the delegate or proxy delegate is
a member of the relevant union shall be proof of their Union
membership.
5.3.2 Any Party unit or affiliated Union which sends delegates to Conference must
supply to the State Secretary a credential for each delegate, signed by the
President or Secretary of the Party unit or affiliated Union.
5.3.3 A person may be a delegate for only one Party unit or affiliated Union at
Conference. ]
http://www.wa.alp.org.au/download/now/final_rules_2008___for_print_16_09_08.pdf
OCD?
Thanks Frank, for the answer to my third question.
Rewi – I think Most affiliated unions would have a problem with organisers running against the ALP. Membership/activism of parties other than the ALP (well not usually the Libs, although there are conservative unions who have lib-voting organisers/activists – astonishing) is sometimes tolerated in affiliated unions, but affiliation is done for very good reasons (ie it achieves results for members) so it’s a conflict for organisers to run for parties against the ALP, even using their own time/resources. Don’t forget that unions invented solidarity, and solidarity is undermined if everyone just goes off & does their own thing politically…
That said I don’t think it’s a contravention of any unions’ rules that I know of. It would really be up to the leadership/executive members.
However – to attend state conference, state executive or other party forums, union delegates have to be financial members of the ALP. And obviously you can’t be a member of another party if you’re a member of the ALP. So I don’t think we’ll see Hsien sitting at ALP conference as a CPSU delegate anytime soon.
Have not heard about the CPSU re affiliating. I always find it funny that people who are too left wing for the ALP (eg Hsien) go to work for Unions that are too conservative to affiliate with the ALP. She was previously with ASU I believe.
Snap Frank, much more concise without polemic…
[OCD?]
I see Windscreens O’Brien has opened an office at Greens HQ in anticipation of an increase in business from the close of pollling on Saturday night. 🙂
[Details on donations for the 2007-08 financial year, released yesterday by the Australian Electoral Commission, reveal the hard-line Construction Forestry Mining and Energy Union’s Victorian construction and general branch paid the Greens $40,000 in October 2007, a month before the federal election.]
Learn to read Frank, the VICTORIAN Branch not the WA Branch. Do try and keep up.
yep OCD
From the CPSU website it seems that the Northern Territory, Queensland, ACT and Victorian branches are the only ones to have reaffiliated so far, although it’s the federal union’s policy to do so.
http://www.cpsu.org.au/campaigns/3119.html
[yep OCD]
Diddums – classic case of Glass Jaw Syndrome.
No seriously Frank, I think you have a problem. Check the DSM IV.
[No seriously Frank, I think you have a problem. Check the DSM IV.]
I repeat Diddums
[No seriously Frank, I think you have a problem. Check the DSM IV.]
As lopposed to your OCD against the ALP.
Pot, Meet Kettle.
You say THAT frequently as well. It can’t be easy for you.
I loved how the Glassed Jaw brigade resort to personal attacks against pelople when they don’t get thekir way.
Says a lot About them.
[You say THAT frequently as well. It can’t be easy for you.]
Hypocrite can’t handle the truth can’t you.
[Most affiliated unions would have a problem with organisers running against the ALP. Membership/activism of parties other than the ALP (well not usually the Libs, although there are conservative unions who have lib-voting organisers/activists – astonishing) is sometimes tolerated in affiliated unions, but affiliation is done for very good reasons (ie it achieves results for members) so it’s a conflict for organisers to run for parties against the ALP, even using their own time/resources. Don’t forget that unions invented solidarity, and solidarity is undermined if everyone just goes off & does their own thing politically…]
pressfortime, this makes some sense to me.
I wonder if the ‘opt-out’ clause for having membership fees contribute to affiliation fees for the CPSU:
[Can I opt out of the affiliation process?
Yes. Where CPSU has had an affiliation with Labor in the past, the branch/region affiliated on behalf of CPSU members in that State or Territory. However, we recognise not all members may be comfortable with affiliation. Therefore under our plan individual members will get a choice as to whether or not their membership should be included for affiliation purposes.]
also extends to organizers. I’d be surprised, given the argument you’ve made, if it did.
That said, it seems it’s not a real issue here as apparently the WA Branch of the CPSU hasn’t reaffiliated yet.
The only political party I have been a member of has been the ALP. Cousins and parents of cousins have been Members of Parliament at State and Federal level for the ALP. Their staffers, my friends, have moved into Parliament themselves.
Quite frankly IF you were indicative of the talent currently available in the ALP, I would run a mile from the party and so would many others. Your blinkered and quite damaged opinions and blind faith in the corrupt practices of the ALP do nothing to promote the potential in the ALP to seek progressive outcomes.
I work with these people on a daily basis, in unions, in government, for NGO’s, in business. I have to, and I welcome it because real change involves talking and challenge and innovative thinking, values you do not exhibit.
Thankfully I know YOU ARE NOT indicative of the existing talent. In fact you are a particularly poor example, just a particularly noisy and repetitive one.
[Most affiliated unions would have a problem with organisers running against the ALP.]
You may want to check the Fair Work Act and the Equal Opportunity Act about discriminating against people on the grounds of political affiliation.