Tuesday, November 24
Comments thread troublemaker Frank Calabrese has caught the attention of The West Australian’s Inside Cover.
Saturday, November 14
The Fremantle Herald reports Gerry Georgatos is forming a new party he proposes to call the “Real Greens”. Such a name would certainly not be permissible under the Commonwealth Electoral Act, but the state’s Electoral Act does not contain a provision equivalent to that prohibiting a name which “a reasonable person would think suggests that a connection or relationship exists between the party and a registered party if that connection or relationship does not in fact exist” (which was designed to disqualify Liberals for Forests and others like it). Georgatos also disputes Lynn MacLaren’s denial last week that she had been behind the preselection of Hsien Harper, saying she had previously admitted this to him.
UPDATE: I’ve been provided with a more in-depth version of the same article, presumably from the Melville or Cockburn version of the Herald.
Sunday, November 8
The Sunday Times reports Georgatos will be directing preferences to Labor:
Labor candidate Peter Tinley’s chances of winning the Willagee state by-election have been boosted, with independent Gerry Georgatos giving preferences to Labor at the November 28 poll. Mr Georgatos, who unsuccessfully sought pre-selection for Willagee for the Greens, said apart from himself, he believed Mr Tinley was the best candidate. He said Greens candidate Hsien Harper was a “good person”, but he believed Mr Tinley was a better candidate. Mr Georgatos denied giving Labor his preferences as payback for not being pre-selected.
Friday, November 6
This week’s Fremantle Herald features a letter from Greens MLC Lynn MacLaren (right) in which she rejects claims the branch meeting that preselected Hsien Harper was stacked, saying the party’s “consensus decision-making” means “branch stacking isn’t possible”. One who begs to differ is Steve Walker, who has told the paper he quit because of “the appalling dishonesty and branch-stacking within the party”. Notwithstanding that he is no longer involved with the party, Walker claims the Willagee preselection was “all the handiwork of Lynn”, whom he labels “the Brian Burke of the Greens”. The paper also corrects its assertion last week that Walker’s gripe had been that he was overlooked for preselection in Fremantle at the expense of Adele Carles – his aspirations had in fact been for the South Metropolitan seat currently occupied by MacLaren. Walker then proceeded to run as an independent, and lodged an above-the-line preference ticket which was punitive with respect to MacLaren personally: while her Greens running mate Scott Ryan was put second, MacLaren was placed behind all major party candidates (since MacLaren was elected anyway, the real impact of his votes was to help elect the Liberals’ Phil Edman ahead of Labor’s Fiona Henderson).
The Herald page linked to above also profiles Christian Democratic Party candidate Henri Chew, and informs us a candidates’ forum will be held at 7:30pm on Wednesday, November 25 (three days before the by-election) at Melville Senior High School’s performing arts hall. There are ads in the paper for Hsien Harper on page one and Peter Tinley on page three, scans of which appear below.
Friday, October 30
The hugely eventful comments thread for this post has made headlines, providing source material for the front page lead story in this weekend’s Fremantle Herald (the Georgatos letter referred to at the end of the scanned article is an edited version of this comment). At issue is the manner in which Hsien Harper was installed as Greens candidate at the expense of Gerry Georgatos, who was preselected earlier in the year when it was felt Alan Carpenter might join Jim McGinty in allowing for a by-election on the same day as the daylight saving referendum in May. Georgatos indicated he was in favour of nominations being reopened when Carpenter did eventually pull the plug, but “party insiders” cited by the Herald say he was “pushed into the decision”. Hsien Harper’s backers got the better of the ensuing preselection meeting, prompting opponents to complain it had been stacked. Georgatos subsequently nominated as an independent, and was promptly forced out of the party.
The sidelining of Georgatos is believed to have occurred largely at the instigation of Lynn MacLaren, member for the corresponding upper house region of South Metropolitan. As the Herald puts it: “About 20 unhappy supporters have since been venting spleens on the Poll Bludger website, with one saying ‘okay, like the others I am a Green – [Lynn] MacLaren and [a] few others knifed him’.” It has been said that Georgatos was felt not to have paid his (metaphorical) party dues; that the campaign might suffer from what one aggrieved comments thread contributor describes as his “outspoken qualities”; and that a candidate with Harper’s union background would in any case be a better bet in a traditional Labor electorate like Willagee.
The dispute also appears to have opened old wounds relating to Adele Carles’s recruitment as candidate for Fremantle at the 2008 election, with some in the party said to have unhappy memories of her as an independent rival to erstwhile upper house MP Jim Scott when he ran in Fremantle in 2005. The nomination of Carles came at the expense of Steve Walker (UPDATE: Or so the Herald reported, but it appears not – see below), described by the Herald as a “founding member” and “loyal warrior for the Greens in various campaigns”. Here too tactical motivations were thought to have been in play, with Carles’s professional background, conservative presentation and young family greatly assisting the party when it sought to win over the Liberal voters who ultimately decided the by-election in her favour (UPDATE 2: The Fremantle Herald confirms it erred in linking Walker to the Fremantle preselection in the next week’s edition – see the entry above).
The ABC’s Peter Kennedy writes about the by-election here, and discusses it here. I’ve also scanned in a full-page Labor ad from the Fremantle Herald – click on the thumbnail to the left for a full view.
UPDATE: Minutes later, Greens convenor Scott Ryan responds:
There are substantial errors of fact in the Herald article that are repeated on your site. Steve Walker did not attempt to pre-select for the State seat of Fremantle in 2008. Adele Carles was preselected unopposed. Steve had already left the party after unsuccessfully nominating for South Metropolitan, choosing to contest that as an independent. Any suggestion that Walker was dumped for Carles is entirely fictitious.
I am not aware of any discomfort over Adele running as an independent in the same election as Jim Scott. She ran on coastal issues and to the best of my memory swapped preferences 2-2. If there are some members who have “unhappy memories” of this, I can of course not rule it out – though it’s nothing I’ve ever heard expressed in years of service to the Fremantle Greens.
As for the remainder of the story, The Greens have not attempted to officially respond to the comments on the site and will not be drawn into debate on that level. Allegations contained within are simply preposterous and delusional.
I have personally maintained communication with Gerry and he maintains that the process was fair and appropriate, and that he was not pushed into re-opening nominations.
I realise that what is said can never be unsaid and perhaps the original posters simply had no idea how damaging their comments would be to Gerry’s campaign and to ours. I am disappointed that the Herald has resorted to cut-and-paste journalism without the fact-checking step in between.
Thursday, October 22
Nominations have closed and the ballot paper order has been drawn, with a modest field of four candidates. Intriguingly, one of the four is Gerry Georgatos, who earlier gave every indication of being relaxed about the re-opening of Greens nominations which ultimately saw him make way for Hsien Harper. The ballot paper order runs Henri Chew (Christian Democratic Party); Peter Tinley (Labor); Hsien Harper (Greens); Gerry Georgatos (Independent).
Wednesday, October 21
The Greens have preselected Hsien Harper, an organiser for the Community and Public Sector Union who ran in Willagee at the 2005 election. Harper was also the party’s candidate for Maylands at last year’s state election, and at the Murdoch by-election earlier in the year.
Sunday, October 18
The Liberals confirmed on Friday they would not be fielding a candidate. The Greens have issued a statement to clarify their reopening of preselection:
The Fremantle-Tangney regional group of The Greens met on Tuesday the 6th of October to discuss opening of nominations for Willagee, selecting a 2-week process for nomination and selection. This process will conclude at a meeting on Tuesday the 20th of October with the selection and announcement of a candidate. Prior to the Fremantle by-election, the Greens chose to not only pre-select a candidate for Fremantle but also for Willagee, expecting a small chance that Alan Carpenter may resign at the same time as Jim McGinty. As this did not occur we elected not to announce the candidate publicly, thinking that it may be seen as an arrogant, provocative or disrespectful move. The candidate selected at the time was Gerry Georgatos. Seven months have passed since the original process, and while there is no question of validity in the previous process, the political landscape has changed somewhat after the victory in Fremantle. Many new members joined in the surge of enthusiasm and the overall chemistry of the party feels a little different. With these issues in mind a proposal was put to the Fremantle-Tangney group to consider re-opening nominations. Gerry himself was joint author of this proposal, stating to the Fremantle Herald (Oct 3) “I feel that I should not hold [the branch] to a decision made seven months ago and would rather ask the members if they want more input. The Greens and I do business differently to the [other] political brands – it’s got to be participatory democracy or there isn’t democracy”. Gerry intends to nominate again as part of the new process.
Tuesday, October 13
Chalpat Sonti of WAtoday reports November 28 has been set by Speaker Grant Woodhams as the date for the by-election (hat tip: Frank Calabrese).
Monday, October 12
The ABC TV news reports, from sources unnamed, that the by-election is believed likely to be held on November 28.
Saturday, October 10
The Fremantle Herald reports Greens state convenor Scott Ryan saying the party will “open up the preselection process again”, despite having preselected “university guild manager Gerry Georgatos” in February when it was thought Carpenter might head for the exit to allow for a by-election on the same day as the daylight saving referendum.
Wednesday, October 7
LATE: Paul Lampathakis of the Sunday Times reports Peter Tinley has been unanimously preselected by Labor’s 16-member administration committee.
EARLY: The ABC reports there are five candidates for Labor preselection: the aforementioned Tinley and Hume, “Labor branch officials” Tony Toledo and Greg Wilton, and Stephen Dawson, former chief-of-staff to Carpenter government Environment Minister David Templeman. Rewi Lyall in comments hears the latter has been endorsed by the party’s Left caucus. Contra the Fremantle Herald, David McEwan is not on the list.
Friday, October 2
The Fremantle Herald reports two further candidates for Labor preselection: Dave Hume, who made a quixotic run against Peter Tagliaferri for the Fremantle preselection and is currently a candidate for Hilton ward in the Fremantle council elections, and David McEwan, an “environmental lawyer involved in the campaign to stop the extension of Roe Highway through the Beeliar wetlands”.
Monday, September 28
Robert Taylor of The West Australian reports Dave Kelly has confirmed he will not be a candidate for preselection. That gives pole position to Peter Tinley, who it so happens lives in Beaconsfield – not in the electorate, but very close to it. Taylor further reports the Greens candidate is expected to be “lawyer and environmental campaigner Graeme McEwan”. CORRECTION: Had the wrong end of the handle here. McEwan is not a Green; Taylor does not say exactly what he is, but I’m presuming he’s a Liberal (although I would have thought it unlikely they would field a candidate).
Sunday, September 27
A report by Paul Lampathakis of the Sunday Times suggests I may have spoken too soon in anointing Dave Kelly as the likely Labor candidate: Peter Tinley, the former SAS officer and Iraq war veteran who unsuccessfully contested Stirling at the 2007 federal election, has confirmed he will nominate, and is the only potential candidate listed in the article. Labor state secretary Simon Mead is quoted saying the preselection will be conducted “within ten days”. The Lampathakis article quotes unnamed Labor figures lambasting Carpenter for not timing his departure to allow for the poll to be held concurrently with the Fremantle by-election and daylight saving referendum on May 16; relatedly, Rebecca Carmody writes in the Sunday Times that Alannah MacTiernan should “do the right thing” and go now so that the Willagee by-election can coincide with one for Armadale.
Friday, September 25
Former WA Premier Alan Carpenter has just announced on the ABC’s Stateline program that he will resign from parliament next Friday. This will initiate a by-election in his safe Labor seat of Willagee, located just down the road from the Poll Bludger’s humble abode in Fremantle. Likely Labor candidate: Dave Kelly, state secretary of the Liquor Hospitality and Miscellaneous Union.
For non-local observers excited by the prospect of a by-election in the seat neighbouring Fremantle, I have assembled a few stats for cold shower purposes. Unfortunately, the census figures are based on boundaries from before the one-vote one-value redistribution – Fremantle’s would still be pretty accurate, but Willagee would have gotten a bit wealthier. “MFY” stands for median family income.
| WILLAGEE | FREMANTLE | |
| ALP 2008 | 51.7% | 38.7% |
| LIB 2008 | 30.9% | 30.2% |
| GRN 2008 | 17.4% | 27.6% |
| ALP 2005 | 47.9% | 43.8% |
| LIB 2005 | 25.1% | 26.8% |
| GRN 2005 | 9.0% | 17.1% |
| Professionals | 17.7% | 29.2% |
| MFY | $1,137 | $1,313 |
| Mortgages | 35.0% | 26.9% |
| Family households | 65.5% | 56.9% |
| Public housing | 33.6% | 19.6% |
@699
zing
pressfortime,
[I always find it funny that people who are too left wing for the ALP (eg Hsien) go to work for Unions that are too conservative to affiliate with the ALP. She was previously with ASU I believe.]
According to Green Left, a reason that the WA branch have not reaffiliated may be “because of the likely large numbers of CPSU members who support the Greens” in that branch, rather than because it’s too conservative.
http://www.greenleft.org.au/2007/702/36459
[The only political party I have been a member of has been the ALP. Cousins and parents of cousins have been Members of Parliament at State and Federal level for the ALP. Their staffers, my friends, have moved into Parliament themselves.
Quite frankly IF you were indicative of the talent currently available in the ALP, I would run a mile from the party and so would many others. Your blinkered and quite damaged opinions and blind faith in the corrupt practices of the ALP do nothing to promote the potential in the ALP to seek progressive outcomes.
I work with these people on a daily basis, in unions, in government, for NGO’s, in business. I have to, and I welcome it because real change involves talking and challenge and innovative thinking, values you do not exhibit.
Thankfully I know YOU ARE NOT indicative of the existing talent. In fact you are a particularly poor example, just a particularly noisy and repetitive one.]
According to your comments here, the party would have reasonable grounds to call for your expulsion.
Deai wth it.
Or is it pots and kettles.
[Rung Windscreen O’Briens yet for yet ANOTHER Jaw Replacement ?]
What the hell does this even mean?
Wasn’t the now Editor/Owner of Western Patriot John Theodorson a CPSU organiser, and ALP member/candidate?
[What the hell does this even mean?]
Glass Jaw syndrome – a common problem amongst the Greens and their followers.
kargotichroad @705, I can’t see the relevance, sorry.
[Learn to read Frank, the VICTORIAN Branch not the WA Branch. Do try and keep up.]
In your rush to discredit me you forgot this little tidbit.
[Tasmanian CFMEU state secretary Scott McLean was tight-lipped yesterday about the donation made to the Greens and party leader, Tasmanian senator Bob Brown, on October 19, 2007.
He said state branches could make decisions on their own without consulting other CFMEU branches or leaders.
Mr McLean said the donation would probably anger many Tasmanian forestry workers, as it could appear that one arm of the CFMEU did not know or agree with what another was doing.
Tasmanian Forest Contractors Association president Rodney Bishop was shocked to learn of the donation.
Mr Bishop said many of his association’s members were also CFMEU members who would be appalled at the $40,000 political gift.
“I know our members would not understand it — and neither do I — if it means that $40,000 has gone to the Greens that is probably now helping them aggravate our members who are working [logging] in the southern forests,” he said.
Senator Brown confirmed his party accepted the money.
He maintained he had never kept the donation secret, pointing to a radio interview when he openly discussed the matter two days before the money was paid.
“The CFMEU in Tasmania is lying if they now say they knew nothing about the donation — it was very well known and discussed nationally in October 2007,” he said.
He said the CFMEU had made the donation because it supported the Greens’ industrial relations policies in preference to those of Labor and the donation had come with the proviso it be mainly spent promoting the Greens’ industrial relations stance.
At the time, Senator Brown told ABC radio he would never accept a donation from the CFMEU in Tasmania or its forestry branch. ]
Have you called OPSM ?
“You may want to check the Fair Work Act and the Equal Opportunity Act about discriminating against people on the grounds of political affiliation.”
I did say that membership/activism of non-ALP parties is tolerated by some affiliated unions; however, running AGAINST an ALP candidate even in an organiser’s own time probably would not be.
I’m not saying that’s right and fair, just reality in the affiliated unions that I’m familiar with – and an organised, disciplined union is correct in taking that position imo.
It’s at the discretion of leadership, who are elected by members, whether an organiser who is a public representative of the union and whose salary and benefits are paid by members’ fees, should be allowed to challenge the party that members are willingly paying fees to be affiliated to, even in their own time.
While on leave a person is after all still on the payroll and still accruing benefits paid for by membership fees – and here’s a scenario: the organiser still theoretically has a union job to return to even if their preference flow ends up defeating a labor government. It may seem like an individual right to run, but if it has the potential to negatively affect your employer’s fortunes, I would say the employer has a right to object. There’s not the same “motherhoodness” about it as the right of a public servant to run for office, which obviously I support as a tenet of democracy.
Perhaps it would contravene EEO etc but it’s yet to be tested because nobody’s tried to do it or legally challenge not being able to do it. I look forward to the test case.
In practice these things sort themselves out. If a person is a card-carrying green/socialist left/national/liberal/one nation member, I would wonder why an organisation that is affiliated to the ALP would employ the person anyway. In my experience it is discussed, and spelled out at the recruitment/interview stage what the expectations of an organiser are, one of those expectations being that you would act in accordance with the political strategy of the union and not act contrary to that strategy.
I guess in an election with no ALP candidate it’d not be a problem and unions might have strategic reasons for backing an independent/green although they would have to have the explicit approval of the membership.
@702 Interesting… that’s according to Green left, so taken with a pinch of salt… The CPSU is less conservative than some unions and does have a lot of trotty members, particularly in the ACT (They all work for the ABS for some reason).
…I was referring more to the ASU anyhow, and the CSA, who keep their heads down politically when things get tough.
Yeah I agree what is the relevance of John Theodorsen being a member of the ALP? Doesn’t mean the union travels and they didn’t affiliate at the time.
Lay off the NSW style threatening comments, that’s just nasty.
PS Rewi the CPSU opt-out clause for members is very pragmatic. Good way to keep members on board. If it applied for organisers, I would think they would have to be paid less than organisers who participate in ALP activities on behalf of the union (usually after hours)…
[In my experience it is discussed, and spelled out at the recruitment/interview stage what the expectations of an organiser are, one of those expectations being that you would act in accordance with the political strategy of the union and not act contrary to that strategy.]
It has never been raised with me when working with Unions. In actual fact, most Unions are very supportive of the Greens given their superior IR policies.
[If a person is a card-carrying green, I would wonder why an organisation that is affiliated to the ALP would employ the person anyway.]
Talent and ability?
I didn’t see you make any threats to bash someone with a baseball bat or jibes about DSM disorders coming from you Frank. 🙂
luke,
List me all the IR successes of the Greens. It won’t take you long.
GG
Dont give cretins a bad name
😉
the ferals meth was spiked with OMO, approach with danger or dirty washing
GG
Define an IR success for me?
[I didn’t see you make any threats to bash someone with a baseball bat or jibes about DSM disorders coming from you Frank. :-)]
I know but the suggestion of explsion and resignation didn’t help matters.
GG,
If you are unwilling to define an IR success, perhaps you might list me some of the IR successes of the ALP so I know what one looks like.
Luke,
Holiday pay
Sick Leave
Medicare
Equal pay for equal work
Maternity/Paternity Leave
OHS laws
That’s for a start
Oh, I see, the ALP is taking credit for the hard work and successes of the Union movement.
You guys really are unbelievable aren’t you?
[Oh, I see, the ALP is taking credit for the hard work and successes of the Union movement.
You guys really are unbelievable aren’t you?]
we,ll isn’t the ALP the POLITICAL Arm of the ALP and last I’ve heard unionists don’t have the power to draft legislation.
[we,ll isn’t the ALP the POLITICAL Arm of the ALP ]
That should read political arm of the Union Movement.
Luke,
Your turn now.
Or have you finsihed already?
“It has never been raised with me when working with Unions. In actual fact, most Unions are very supportive of the Greens given their superior IR policies.”
That’s terrific for you and I wish you well in your career with “most unions”. Love that hard edged statistic.
I was actually ONLY talking about affiliated unions. There are many and varied unions with many and varied political standpoints.
“Talent and ability?”
With union organisers, political skills are part and parcel of talent and ability. If the affiliated union has a choice between two people of equal talent and ability, in my experience they choose the person who is willing to support the ALP. Resources are limited and choosing to be snobby about the ALP is an indulgence.
If I may leap in with some examples of “IR successes” so that Luke can leap in with examples of the greens’ IR successes (not just “superior policies” which are mere policies for the forseeable future) instead of fudging:
– influencing the outcome of wage negotiations between lowpaid government workers and a hostile government
– delivering on legislative changes to benefit lowpaid workers (I can give you examples of ALP policy now Govt policy)
– introducing progressive IR legislation and getting it through
– defeating the government that introduced Workchoices
– not directing preferences in such a way as to give the libs seats that helped elect the Barnett Government which has an agenda for WA”s own Workchoices.
The ALP is sometimes woeful on IR and “most unions” know it, but the fact that the party is electable is quite a selling point.
The greens MAY have “superior IR policies”. I have superior policies too, but I’m not electable. The hypothesis that the Greens’ policies are better for workers is yet to be tested, so unions with lots of money to spend are still supporting a party that can actually govern.
Greens, what does the Aborigal flag havde to do with illustrating a grab on community consultation, wouldn’t aa shot of a public meeting be more appropriate ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gav9ETxUpZs
“Oh, I see, the ALP is taking credit for the hard work and successes of the Union movement.
You guys really are unbelievable aren’t you?”
Read your history. You shouldn’t be working for unions if you don’t know this stuff Luke.
The ALP is the political arm of the union movement. The benefits listed were achieved through legislative changes introduced by ALP governments. The ALP and the Union movement historically are symbiotic; one didn’t exist without the other.
The union movement’s wins were the ALP’s wins and often vice versa.
That’s less and less the case, but you can’t dispute the historical facts.
It seems you think Unions magically bestowed those benefits on the people. It’s about GOVERNMENT.
“and last I’ve heard unionists don’t have the power to draft legislation.”
Frank said it more succinctly.
[Greens, what does the Aborigal flag havde to do ]
That should read “what does the Aboriginal flag have to do”.
but you do get my drift – it ain’t a good look if you want to appeal to people other than the soy latte brigade.
[but you do get my drift – it ain’t a good look if you want to appeal to people other than the soy latte brigade.]
Oh and they’re still got shocking production values, can still hear the vollies in the office if you turn the volume way up and she looks stilted – location shots are a lot better – kill the blue screen.
Hmm, strange bedfellows on Facebook in light of today’s discussion re the CFMEU.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Hsien-Harper/193852949008#/shelley.archer?ref=sgm
[Hmm, strange bedfellows on Facebook in light of today’s discussion re the CFMEU.]
Shocck Horror, so is Rewi.
[If I may leap in with some examples of “IR successes” so that Luke can leap in with examples of the greens’ IR successes (not just “superior policies” which are mere policies for the forseeable future) instead of fudging:]
Don’t forget:
– the retention of the ABCC; and
– the introduction of the second most anti-union Federal IR legislation in Australian history,
[That’s less and less the case, but you can’t dispute the historical facts.]
You are right but the point I made a long time ago in this thread is that the ALP appears to be trying to distance itself from it’s Union past in an effort to make itself more electorally palatable. I think this is a mistake and is being done to the detriment of workers.
As far as Green successes go, we will have to wait until we are in Government or at least in BOP Federally. I for one will be pushing very hard internally for pro-worker policies to be implemented using BOP.
A number of the benefits GG referred to were actually achieved by Unions through bargaining or through arbitration and have only been enshrined in legislation after the fact.
luke,
still waiting for those Greens achievements in IR.
[ Hmm, strange bedfellows on Facebook in light of today’s discussion re the CFMEU.
Shocck Horror, so is Rewi.]
But Rewi isn’t on Hsien’s fan list though 🙂 THAT is the difference young Grasshopper.
[still waiting for those Greens achievements in IR.]
Intravenous Ritalin?
gus,
is that a suppository?
[You are right but the point I made a long time ago in this thread is that the ALP appears to be trying to distance itself from it’s Union past in an effort to make itself more electorally palatable. I think this is a mistake and is being done to the detriment of workers.]
More like the more troublesome ones – Kevin Reynolds and Joe McDonald are their own enemies and do the union movement more harm than good – note the difference in approach from a Greg Combet or Bill Shorten.
[is that a suppository?]
from some of the posts here, it’s a certainty.
😉
But Frank, why are they avoiding preselecting Union Officials for seats like Willagee and Fremantle?
[But Frank, why are they avoiding preselecting Union Officials for seats like Willagee and Fremantle?]
And why didn’t the Greens pre-select a long haaired hippie dope smoking fderal who hasn’t washed for 6 months qand lives in a commune with 3 wives and 3 dozen naked children ??
Next silly question ?
[And why didn’t the Greens pre-select a long haaired hippie dope smoking fderal who hasn’t washed for 6 months qand lives in a commune with 3 wives and 3 dozen naked children ??
Next silly question ?]
Cause they don’t really exist except in your mind unlike the numerous good officials who have put their hands up for ALP preselection only to be rejected for no good reason.
[Cause they don’t really exist except in your mind unlike the numerous good officials who have put their hands up for ALP preselection only to be rejected for no good reason.]
Bulldust they DO exist, but the Greens didn’t want to upset the horses so to speak.
Got O’Briens on Speed Dial ?
I am actually genuinely interested in your opinion Frank:
Are the ALP consciously moving away from preselecting “Union People” for high profile seats;
If yes, is it to solve a shorter term political problem (ie Kevin Reynolds) or is it indiciative of a longer term shift away from its traditional support base in the Union movement and into a popular party.
[I am actually genuinely interested in your opinion Frank:
Are the ALP consciously moving away from preselecting “Union People” for high profile seats;
If yes, is it to solve a shorter term political problem (ie Kevin Reynolds) or is it indiciative of a longer term shift away from its traditional support base in the Union movement and into a popular party.]
It is a bit of both, it depends on the electorate and it’s demographic.
@747
The point I was making is that the ALP has a strong union present as well as a symbiotic history. The large, growing unions representing the growth areas of the workforce remain with and strongly influential within the ALP. I do not know on what facts you base your assertion that the party is trying to distance itself from its union history. Perhaps there is rhetoric to that effect, but where is the party’s action to do so? (We may differ in that I believe in action and you believe in statements about what a perfect world is). Can you provide those facts?
It is a proud history and gives the party its soul and many of its philosophies and processes, facts that are acknowledged at all levels of the party, which you would know if you were a member. The union connection may not be prominent in election statements or PR material, but the ALP’s aim is to get elected in order to implement its (not always perfect) policies, not appeal to a minority of green left weekly buyers. The union connection is there in fact – in 50% of the votes in party forums. 50% of preselections. I would like to see that in a Green preselection, but oh I forgot, you’re above voting at preselections and affiliation, cos that’s like restrictively organised or whatever.
I acknowledged that ALP is often woeful on IR (ABCC, winding back of workchoices cases in point). Please do not quote me selectively.
The union movement is at too much of a crucial turning point to “wait until the greens are in government” or for Luke (I hope there are a few more than just you – collectivism is quite powerful you know) to lobby for progressive IR policies at times when the greens have the balance of power federally. Confidence-inspiring as that is, I just don’t think I can stake my children’s future working rights on the greens’ BOP.
It’s just not a choice that any progressive union with an eye to the future is going make (and I don’t count the CFMEU as one of those, notwithstanding their Che t shirts and visits to Cuba). Split from the party the union movement started, grew, nurtured and which still represents its best interests to join with one that has a few seats and a large disaffected Liberal constituency, and is “waiting to win government” to implement its “superior” policies? Not appealing sorry.
That’s fascinating. Which good officials put their hand up and got knocked back for preselection?
It appears the ALP is becoming more moderate and even more “liberal” in a small l sense.
If that is the case, the Greens will continue to rise on the left (at least for now) but where does that leave the Libs.
Are they destined to compete with the nutjobs on the hard right for a few votes in conservative land?
[That’s fascinating. Which good officials put their hand up and got knocked back for preselection?]
Keith McCorriston from the MUA in Fremantle
Greg Wilton from the CEPU and Stephen Dawson from the AMWU in Willagee.
I don’t know if Dave Kelly put his hand up for either seat but surely he deserves a crack at one soon.
@758 and 759
Categorically, the party is not deliberately moving away from selecting union officials for high profile seats. just one example – the member in the safest seat in WA is a former union official, elected in 2008. (It’s a small sample; but Willagee and Fremantle are also a small sample on which to base your argument).
You also do not have to be a union official to actively pursue a union agenda. The large unions have their candidates who are as loyal to them as any former official. Facts that sometimes scare the general public but should reassure a rusted on unionist such as yourself Luke.
Stephen Dawson started work at the AMWU last year. Prior to that he worked for years as an electorate officer and ministerial adviser. He’s a good hack and believes in Unions, but he’s been in the game in order to get preselected, don’t kid yourself. And when it’s the AMWU’s turn again he’ll get a go.
You name Dave Kelly, hoping that he was turned down because it would help your argument (especially since he is actually a major talent). He wasn’t turned down and will get a seat when he wants it – because a major union secretary is powerful within the ALP. Much as that doesn’t suit your argument, it’s the fact.
The others I’ll reserve comment, I don’t know them. Factions have a bit to do with it, you might not be aware of those. Part of the reality of a large party.
So no, it’s about numbers and internal balance of power. The ALP has not changed its approach and stopped preselecting unionists.
“If that is the case, the Greens will continue to rise on the left (at least for now) but where does that leave the Libs.
Are they destined to compete with the nutjobs on the hard right for a few votes in conservative land?”
Well disaffected libs who believe in the environment are going to go with your lot, leaving the hard right to the nutjobs.
Good luck pursuing justice for the workers among western suburbs greenies Luke.