The latest Morgan face-to-face survey, combining polling conducted over the previous two weekends, shows Labor’s two-party lead down slightly to 59-41 from 61-39 in the previous survey. Their primary vote is down 3.5 per cent to 48.5 per cent, but the Coalition is up only 1 per cent to 35 per cent. The balance has gone to Family First and independent/others.
The Courier-Mail also reports on a Newspoll survey conducted for Griffith University’s Federalism Project showing “almost one in five” believe the states should be abolished, and “only one in three people in Queensland wants the status quo of federal, state and local government to remain”. More from Griffith University’s Socio-Legal Research Centre.
ShowsOn @ 250
Elegantly put. Thanks.
I’ve heard it said recently that ‘I respect a fellows religious views in much the same way as I respect his view that his wife is the most beautiful woman in the world and all his children are wonderfully talented”
ShowsOn, Tell me do you believe any values are fundamental or is everything relativism for you?
You seem to have confused the 2 concepts. I can certainly agree all people should be afforded the same fundamental rights (such as the right to shelter and sustenance) but you seem to apply this concept in a relativistic sense ie that all points of view/rights are equally relevant.
252
Philmour
Originally from H.L. Mencken, if I recall correctly.
Is it just me or were Pell’s comments inherently racist? “No Western country is producing enough babies to keep the population stable, no Western country,” by ‘West’ I read white (and by white I read predominantly Christian).
The only reason someone would see this a such a pressing problem would be a fear of godless brown skinned hordes… this is The Bulletin circa 1890’s stuff.
Wouldn’t a kind hearted Christian such as Pell see well-off underpopulated Western countries as a destination/opportunity for migrants from overpopulated less well-to-do countries. You know, those supposed Christian values such as charity, combating poverty and loving you fellow man (sorry ladies) … or should I be more concerned with fags & fetuses?
Actually I think its just you Nate Plisken.
Just Me,
you’re right,thanks…it works for me!
GG 215 and 234
First regarding Manila slums: the cause is overpopulation, which is in turn caused by an absurd lack of birth control in an overwhelmingly catholic country, where local church leaders have significant influence on the government. Clear enough? Think back to the vatican’s insidious blocking role in the world population conference in the 1990s and the connection becomes clearer. My remark wasn’t meant to be confined to Manila: it applies to poor overpopulated countries all over the world. Many of those countries are catholic; almost all are highly religeous.
As for the good some people who are catholic do, I agree it is (mostly) good. When I was catholic I helped with St Vincent de Paul too. I still help them. But one of the great lies of religeous leaders is to take credit for the good that religeous people do, while using it to deflect criticism for the harm their hierarchy does. I have seen that hierarchy in action from the inside and it is not pretty – primarily focused on what most governments are focused on: money and power. Paying for the retirement of ageing priests was the number one concern I observed. It converted me to an atheist.
I do not mean to denigrate all religeous people, especially at the grass roots level. But I think most of them are religeous because they try to be good people and think religeon is part of that; they are not good because they are religeous. As for the leaders, their ends justifies their means, and if you believe you have the ultimate end, you believe you are justified in using any means. The hypocracy is the worst of all; No matter how good an engineer I may become, I doubt I will ever match the wine collection I saw in one bishop’s house. Vow of poverty anyone? Lets just settle for tax exempt status.
255 Nate
Yes I agree: “why aren’t we having as many babies as those brown people who might take us over” seemed to be the subtext. Pell’s remark annoyed me at so many levels I didn’t list them all.
Socrates,
Presumably one can obtain condoms in Manilla? The Church has the right to preach its views on these issues just as others are free to advocate an alternative view.
You seem to assume one view is out of bounds. Secondly surely we all have free will as to what we choose to believe? Presumably fornicators in Manilla make their own choices on these issues.
As for your second point, the hierachy. Paying for retirement of aging priests was the number one concern. Whilst I might dispute your characterisation, please explain how an organisation seeking to pay for those it has an obligation to is in some way improper? Not unlike an employer in a defined benefit fund struggling to make payments for super or a pension in my book.
Thirdly the tired chestnut of the ends justifies the mean and wine collections. If you think about it priests have or should have no heirs and have no need of material possessions to “pass on” so I doubt very much the charge of venality can be made to stick. At least provide an example to justify your ends justify the means charge.
I’ll put a question to you, why is that people who have never set foot in a church or at the very least have seen many years pass since they did feel qualified to pass judgement and sentence on the church?
Presumably fornicators in Manilla make their own choices on these issues.
That is so unrealistic and self-righteous, I am trouble believing you genuinely believe it.
“priests have or should have no heirs”
just victims?
Oh so witty thomarse,
Some people in politics are w.nkers doesnt mean they all are.
One common theme with the lapsed Catholics and others on this thread is how they blame the Church or its hierarchy for all their personal dissatisfaction and guilt they feel. There is absolutely no self reflection of the fact that it is they who have changed and not the Church or the Church’s ideology. Well, I say you need to work harder and learn that the love of God is not and never will be an equal relationship. We are here to serve his will.
Some may claim acquired wisdom, others will use the Churchs failings as justification. But ultimately, it is you who have moved away from the Church and not vice versa.
Guys and gals – a few days ago I posted a little paradox on idiots.
You’re attempting the impossible.
You either learn to think for yourself, or you don’t.
55/45
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24021006-601,00.html
but i thought the honeymoon was over, john howard said so
the political death of brendan nelson has been so drawn out, just get rid of him already
263 EstJ
Nah, just let priests marry, no reason in dogma Catlick priests can’t marry.
Catlick church should also ordain women
Else the church will retreat rapidly in Western countries
267
On honeymoons:
My parents came to this country on their honeymoon on one of those ’round Australia bus tours (back in the day). They like the place so much they didn’t go home (you could do that back in the day too).
Pretty long honeymoon!
Nelson sticking around might be our best hope for the agenda implementation we’re heading for. It’s either that or a DD.
Nelson is 14% man
well on the bright side (for him at least) he has doubled his historic low of 7%
[Nelson is 14% man]
He’s 2% more popular than Troy Buswell and Nrenda hasn’t sniffed any chairs or snapped any bra straps that we are aware of 🙂
ESJ,
Will you be able to parlay your banning from a site where you have never posted into a glittering multi media career? (Remember the villains are always the most popular).
Is assault by looking a criminal charge?
How many ways can you say “Obama is kewl”?
Lol GG,
It’s a bit of a giggle really. I perused the “site” following your comment – a true Web first, a therapeutic community for some serious nutters.
Me I’ll just keep telling the truth as I see it. What more can I do despite the nasty personal attacks?
I see Jen and Progressive already sniffing around here, wont be long till our own Manson Family come back in their entirety – unfortunately.
ESJ, I also “perused the “site” following your comment” – the nutters already mumbling how one hand clappin’ is really not much fun and were wishing we were there!! Can I do the Showy bit in LOL!!!
GG
Why do you conservative religeous types invariably think people like me feel guilty or don’t know what the (catholic) church was like? Its as though your own inability to admit it could all just be an accident of history is intentionally maintained. Better to assume al the critics are ignorant – if they just knew the truth they’d believe! ROTFL!
As for your comments on divine wisdom – well that is very poor logic. Its a circular argument to assume some of the characteristics of what you are trying to prove exists in order to prove your belief it exists is valid! Though in a sense I don’t really blame you for that one. Since the split with science most religeons have preferred to rely on blind faith rather than reason. Rational thought in teh catholic church went out the window under Wojtyla. Some of the early theologians who were also philosophers and reached their conclusions through reason would turn in their graves. There’s no certainty that early christians even believed in an after life, or prayed for the dead, before the second century AD. But don’t mind me I’m ignorant of religeon – hopefully I jsut know what I don’t know
LOL Finns, there can be only one Showy, interesting how the flow of the Showy River is building up, I guess Charlie always felt safest in the Family compound too!
264 GG,
Interesting how many take that view with them when its time to enter the departure lounge. Quite a few come back to Mother Church “for insurance purposes” as they say.
ESJ
The problem in places like Manila is not teaching, it is systematic lobbying to stop funding of programs for sex education and birth control. Far too often the “lords supporters” prefer tactics which are distinctly secular and underhanded in their struggle for “truth”. Pell and the dodgy funding deals on WTF day is a case in point. I sometimes wonder if they believe in an afterlife any more than I do; all they want is to keep the show on the road here and now. Hence the need to brainwash new generations.
As for the wine collection I referred to; it was only meant as an example but the one I was thinking of was enjoyed by an individual and not shared with the poor.
Hmm Socrates 279,
Like most issues, the facts are more complex:
http://www.census.gov.ph/data/pressrelease/1999/press9908tx.html
[Interesting how many take that view with them when its time to enter the departure lounge. Quite a few come back to Mother Church “for insurance purposes” as they say.]
Yeah it’s amazing the things people do when they are desperate.
Remember the good ole days when we discussed POLITICS in this blog *sigh*.
ESJ , FINNS & GG
so you guys ‘perused’ , all smarter of course than the barbarian , bbut maybe the custers last stand forcast may have been on the money for once , never tempted by fantasyland
Socrates
the othr way to look at your point is that in most non democratic countries , the various churchs in net terms do add to peoples lives , and the MSN highligh
the minority adverse , so a Kevin Rudd with declard beliefs has something in common with them
Tim
the ‘oz’ have run a series of anti Rudd storys using his religion to try to present him as flakey , so feel the ‘oz’ have a pro Lib agenda in bringing religion in
Newspoll thread up. Please do not carry over the religion discussion on to the new thread. Thank you.