Poll positioning

Fraught preselections aplenty as the major parties get their houses in order ahead of a looming federal election.

Kicking off a federal election year with an overdue accumulation of preselection news, going back to late November:

• Liberal Party conservative Craig Kelly was last month saved from factional moderate Kent Johns’ preselection challenge in his southern Sydney seat of Hughes, which was widely reported as having decisive support in local party branches. This followed the state executive’s acquiescence to Scott Morrison’s demand that it rubber-stamp preselections for all sitting members of the House of Representatives, also confirming the positions of Jason Falinski in Mackellar, John Alexander in Bennelong and Lucy Wicks in Robertson. Kelly had threatened a week earlier to move to the cross bench if dumped, presumably with a view to contesting the seat as an independent. Malcolm Turnbull stirred the pot by calling on the executive to defy Morrison, noting there had been “such a long debate in the New South Wales Liberal Party about the importance of grass roots membership involvement”. This referred to preselection reforms that had given Johns the edge over Kelly, which had been championed by conservatives and resisted by moderates. Turnbull’s critics noted he raised no concerns when the executive of the Victorian branch guaranteed sitting members’ preselections shortly before he was dumped as Prime Minister.

• The intervention that saved Craig Kelly applied only to lower house members, and was thus of no use to another beleaguered conservative, Senator Jim Molan, who had been relegated a week earlier to the unwinnable fourth position on the Coalition’s ticket. Hollie Hughes and Andrew Bragg were chosen for the top two positions, with the third reserved to the Nationals (who have chosen Perin Davey, owner of a communications consultancy, to succeed retiring incumbent John “Wacka” Williams). Despite anger at the outcome from conservatives in the party and the media, Scott Morrison declined to intervene. Morrison told 2GB that conservatives themselves were to blame for Molan’s defeat in the preselection ballot, as there was “a whole bunch of people in the very conservative part of our party who didn’t show up”.

• Labor’s national executive has chosen Diane Beamer, a former state government minister who held the seats of Badgerys Creek and Mulgoa from 1995 to 2011, to replace Emma Husar in Lindsay. The move scotched Husar’s effort to recant her earlier decision to vacate the seat, after she became embroiled in accusations of bullying and sexual harassment in August. Husar is now suing Buzzfeed over its reporting of the allegations, and is reportedly considering running as an independent. The Liberals have preselected Melissa McIntosh, communications manager for the not-for-profit Wentworth Community Housing.

• The misadventures of Nationals MP Andrew Broad have created an opening in his seat of Mallee, which has been in National/Country Party hands since its creation in 1949, although the Liberals have been competitive when past vacancies have given them the opportunity to contest it. The present status on suggestions the seat will be contested for the Liberals by Peta Credlin, who was raised locally in Wycheproof, is that she is “being encouraged”. There appears to be a view in the Nationals that the position should go to a woman, with Rachel Baxendale of The Australian identifying three potential nominees – Anne Mansell, chief executive of Dried Fruits Australia; Caroline Welsh, chair of the Birchip Cropping Group; and Tanya Chapman, former chair of Citrus Australia – in addition to confirmed starter Anne Warner, a social worker.

• Nationals Senator Bridget McKenzie yesterday scotched suggestions that she might run in Mallee. The view is that she is positioning herself to succeeding Cathy McGowan in Indi if she decides not to recontest, having recently relocated her electorate office from Bendigo to one of Indi’s main population centres, Wodonga. The Liberals last month preselected Steven Martin, a Wodonga-based engineer.

• Grant Schultz, Milton real estate agent and son of former Hume MP Alby Schultz, has been preselected as Liberal candidate for Gilmore on New South Wales’ south coast, which the party holds on a delicate margin of 0.7%. The seat is to be vacated by Ann Sudmalis, whose preselection Schultz was preparing to challenge when she announced her retirement in September. It was reported in the South Coast Register that Joanna Gash, who held the seat from 1996 to 2013 and is now the mayor of Shoalhaven (UPDATE: Turns out Gash ceased to be so as of the 2016 election, and is now merely a councillor), declared herself “pissed off” at the local party’s endorsement of Schultz, which passed by forty votes to nine.

• Hawkesbury councillor Sarah Richards has been preselected as the Liberal candidate in Macquarie, where Labor’s Susan Templeman unseated Liberal member Louise Markus in 2016.

Author: William Bowe

William Bowe is a Perth-based election analyst and occasional teacher of political science. His blog, The Poll Bludger, has existed in one form or another since 2004, and is one of the most heavily trafficked websites on Australian politics.

3,175 comments on “Poll positioning”

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  1. Good Morning

    I find it interesting how its always the left that must unite to win and the division of the right is always excused as strong robust debate with the best candidate winning.

    I see this outside this blog too.

    I abhor this double standard. Of course the left can have debates and differences of opinion on how to reach the destination. There is no excuse for centrists to shut down debate using the unity argument.

    Its not only insulting to democracy is an unobtainable goal.
    What you need is robust debate with a process and yes that means in a Democratic Primary Bernie Sanders can and should run in that primary under the Democratic Party rules.

    A lot of people really are falling for the shut the debate down arguments. Setting themselves up for a big fight over who can speak instead of who is winning the argument and becoming the next candidate.

    Unity for the Democrats happens after the nomination. Like it or not thats the process.

  2. Is anyone else slightly irritated by the term “wellness centre”?

    Hard to market under its proper name. ‘Centre for Relieving the Gullible of their Cash’

  3. I mean, does he have a grand plan or is it just a case of attacking anyone who does not share his jaundiced views?

    An analogy might be that he enjoys mud wrestling. His instinct is to sew doubt and uncertainty. The puddle doesn’t matter. He’ll churn it up until he gets bored and moves on.

  4. Mavis Smith

    The same “military men’ who have spent 20 years ‘winning’ the ‘Forever War’ in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya,Syria. Perhaps it is time to stop listening to them ?

  5. Barney

    We are talking about a political party here. If they did not want Bernie Sanders to run they would have rules like Labor that prevented anyone not a Democrat from participating.

    I admit I find the US rules on this quirky but Sanders has every right to participate in those debates and be part of the process under their rules.

    Anyone saying Sanders should not do so does not understand the reason for the existence of those rules. Thats also looking at in in a binary way. This season there are gong to be multiple progressive and establishment candidates.

    Of course this also ignores the unity the Democrats showed in getting behind Nancy Pelosi as Speaker and yes that includes Bernie Sanders

  6. Gareth:

    [’70 is the new 60.’]

    It is? Well, I’m going to try to start acting like a sixty year old. I would add that I’m nowhere as sharp as I was a decade ago, though I’ll concede that’s not the case across the board.

  7. guytaur, I think I understand your point, that everyone should enter the ring. But ironically, in espousing that certain topics, such as ‘too old’ or ‘too divisive’ should be off limits, I think you’re also proscribing the debate in your own way.

  8. Mavis Smith says: Monday, January 7, 2019 at 11:26 am

    phoenixRED:

    Nearly every night, senior former military officers are rolled out on US news outlets to give their opinion of Trump. Almost without exception they are highly criticial of him, with due cause.

    I’m none the wise as to why would he put down the military. I mean, does he have a grand plan or is it just a case of attacking anyone who does not share his jaundiced views?

    **************************************************************

    A recent article on CNN asks similar questions Mavis : its the same old narcissistic Trump theme – “I am a genius , I know more than them …….

    Trump says he loves the military, but he keeps insulting its members

    For a president who professes to revere the US military more than any of his predecessors, Donald Trump gets entangled in a lot of scrapes that raise doubts about the sincerity of his admiration.

    He has feuded with war heroes and the relatives of fallen soldiers, sparked controversy by ducking remembrance observances and been accused of using the troops to advance his political goals. He’s said he knows more about ISIS than the generals do.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2018/11/20/politics/donald-trump-william-mcraven-military/index.html

  9. Barney in Go Dau @ #2195 Monday, January 7th, 2019 – 8:14 am

    One thing travelling and living abroad has done is almost completely remove me from popular western culture.

    Just looked at the ABC’s Golden Globe blog and, apart from a couple of real oldies, I don’t know any of the actors or shows. 😆

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-07/golden-globes-2019-live-blog/10688682

    Barney, Lizzie

    You are both doing yourself a dis-service by not watching The Americans.

    It’s about a couple of KGB agents operating in Reagan era America. It doesn’t depict them as villains, or even heroes. The same with the FBI agents working against them. Neither heroes nor villains. All just people doing their jobs.

    It is quite simply the best show since Breaking Bad. Well worth acquiring the dvds to binge on. Mathew Rhys and Keri Russel are excellent in the lead roles, and the supporting cast is up to scratch as well.

    MUST WATCH TV!!!!!

  10. Parramatta Moderate @ #2187 Monday, January 7th, 2019 – 10:57 am

    It’s good to see some debate on this issue! I can’t accept that I should be held accountable for events which happened before I was born or my ancestors lived in this country. And what has my ethnic background, whatever it may be, got to do with it? The question here is whether people alive today should be held accountable for crimes committed by others in the past. Should the grandchildren of Turkish migrants to Australia in the 1950’s be held accountable for the atrocities committed against the Armenians in the Ottoman empire 100 years ago? We need to acknowledge the reality of what happened to indigenous Australians, and we need to take practical measures to improve their health, education, housing, job prospects, and acknowledge their rights to land and resources as defined by our legal system. But personal guilt for the atrocities of the past, which some here seem to thing we must feel, is something I will not accept. Cheers

    Agree wholeheartedly.

  11. guytaur @ #2206 Monday, January 7th, 2019 – 7:37 am

    Barney

    We are talking about a political party here. If they did not want Bernie Sanders to run they would have rules like Labor that prevented anyone not a Democrat from participating.

    I admit I find the US rules on this quirky but Sanders has every right to participate in those debates and be part of the process under their rules.

    Anyone saying Sanders should not do so does not understand the reason for the existence of those rules. Thats also looking at in in a binary way. This season there are gong to be multiple progressive and establishment candidates.

    Of course this also ignores the unit the Democrats showed in getting behind Nancy Pelosi as Speaker and yes that includes Bernie Sanders

    It all comes down to who sets the agenda.

    Sanders would obviously like to set it, but the Democratic Party has a small interest here as well!

  12. The argument that a certain candidate should decline to run because “they would be splitting the vote” is the dumbest argument one can level against a candidate. If your chief concern is not splitting the vote, you might like a one-party state. The vote is completely and virtuously unsplit in such a state – you’d love it.

    In a democracy, however, there are these things called FREEDOM and OPTIONS. You should learn what those concepts mean before sounding off about the evils of “vote-splitting” aka having more than one candidate to choose from.

  13. Dan Gulberry @ #2210 Monday, January 7th, 2019 – 7:42 am

    Barney in Go Dau @ #2195 Monday, January 7th, 2019 – 8:14 am

    One thing travelling and living abroad has done is almost completely remove me from popular western culture.

    Just looked at the ABC’s Golden Globe blog and, apart from a couple of real oldies, I don’t know any of the actors or shows. 😆

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-07/golden-globes-2019-live-blog/10688682

    Barney, Lizzie

    You are both doing yourself a dis-service by not watching The Americans.

    It’s about a couple of KGB agents operating in Reagan era America. It doesn’t depict them as villains, or even heroes. The same with the FBI agents working against them. Neither heroes nor villains. All just people doing their jobs.

    It is quite simply the best show since Breaking Bad. Well worth acquiring the dvds to binge on. Mathew Rhys and Keri Russel are excellent in the lead roles, and the supporting cast is up to scratch as well.

    MUST WATCH TV!!!!!

    The Americans -WTF??????

    Breaking Bad -WTF????

    Mathew Rhys and Keri Russel – who are these people???????

    I have no idea what you are talking about!

    MUST WATCH TV – The concept is illogical and has no meaning.

    What happens if I do not watch?

    There are many people like me that don’t own a TV, are we excluded from some reward?

    Sounds a bit like religion!!! 😆

  14. There are many people like me that don’t own a TV, are we excluded from some reward?

    You can watch Netflix on your computer or even phone/tablet.

  15. My point about Sanders is that the Democratic party has its rules and under those rules like it or not then Sanders can participate. Thats the rules.

    As for age that doesn’t seem to count with the US politicians as it does here. Maybe they have a healthier outlook to age despite Hollywood and its obsession with youth.

    If Sanders can win through the process then that process has selected the best candidate.
    In my view Sanders won’t win the nomination I think it will be either a woman progressive to challenge Trump or an establishment candidate that will.

    The Democrats with its multiple candidates are sure going to have lots of “division” until the nomination is settled. Unlike the GOP who are in the straight jacket of Trump and we saw what the GOP shutting the debate down in the last convention got them.

    They got unity behind an extremist candidate that could see them in the wilderness for years. Just like the LNP have done in purging their moderates.

  16. Confessions @ #2214 Monday, January 7th, 2019 – 8:47 am

    I watched S1 of Bad Blood which was excellent. Based on Canadian mob boss Vito Rizzuto: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vito_Rizzuto

    That’s on “My List”. Will get around to watching it in the near future.

    Obviously you subscribe to Netflix, so check out Bodyguard (also nominated for Best Drama at the GGs).

    It starts out with a nail-biter of a scene, it ends with another nail-biter, and then adds a twist you never saw coming right at the end.

    Or you can watch the cricket instead. 😉

  17. poroti:

    [‘The same “military men’ who have spent 20 years ‘winning’ the ‘Forever War’ in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya,Syria. Perhaps it is time to stop listening to them?’]

    I think that there’s a marked difference in listening to them, to putting them down publicly, often in a very personal manner. I suspect that this would be very off-putting for the most in the military, to witness Trump, a draft dodger, belittle their former commanders.

  18. Barney in Go Dau @ #2217 Monday, January 7th, 2019 – 8:51 am

    Dan Gulberry @ #2210 Monday, January 7th, 2019 – 7:42 am

    Barney in Go Dau @ #2195 Monday, January 7th, 2019 – 8:14 am

    One thing travelling and living abroad has done is almost completely remove me from popular western culture.

    Just looked at the ABC’s Golden Globe blog and, apart from a couple of real oldies, I don’t know any of the actors or shows. 😆

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-07/golden-globes-2019-live-blog/10688682

    Barney, Lizzie

    You are both doing yourself a dis-service by not watching The Americans.

    It’s about a couple of KGB agents operating in Reagan era America. It doesn’t depict them as villains, or even heroes. The same with the FBI agents working against them. Neither heroes nor villains. All just people doing their jobs.

    It is quite simply the best show since Breaking Bad. Well worth acquiring the dvds to binge on. Mathew Rhys and Keri Russel are excellent in the lead roles, and the supporting cast is up to scratch as well.

    MUST WATCH TV!!!!!

    The Americans -WTF??????

    Breaking Bad -WTF????

    Mathew Rhys and Keri Russel – who are these people???????

    I have no idea what you are talking about!

    MUST WATCH TV – The concept is illogical and has no meaning.

    What happens if I do not watch?

    There are many people like me that don’t own a TV, are we excluded from some reward?

    Sounds a bit like religion!!! 😆

    Stick with the cricket then.

    BTW, I don’t own a TV either.

  19. Tristo

    ‘We don’t have the sort of progressives such as Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez in our parliaments.’

    No – we have whole parties which do the same job.

    Seriously, we are streets ahead of America in progressive terms. We have had universal health care for decades, not years. We have safety nets for the poor and underpriviledged that they can only dream of. We have f*cking working gun laws, for Christ’s sake – many of America’s progressives won’t even go there.

    I’m not sure why the left find it fashionable to denigrate Australia. ScoMo is an idiot, but he’s not Trumpesque. Even under a bad government, we’re still one of the best countries in the world to live -and the USA is way down the table.

  20. zoomster

    The same people that attack Sanders OAC and Warren are the same lot that attack unions in Australia and the likes of Sally McManus for being a proud socialist wanting to change the rules.

    Australia has been successful because until the last few decades we have resisted the neoliberal dogmatism. Curtin and Whitlam’s Governments were certainly no Thatcher or Reagan.

  21. guytaur

    Well, no.

    I’d attack Sanders long before I’d get around to attacking Warren, and even then I wouldn’t touch McManus or the unions.

    I think Sanders is a waste of space. I have a lot of respect for Warren, and even more for McManus.

    In fact, I have some difficulties with the idea of lumping Sanders and McManus in the same basket. She’s far more pragmatic than he is.

  22. Mavis Smith

    think that there’s a marked difference in listening to them, to putting them down publicly, often in a very personal manner.

    Good. It might help chip away at the tendency to treat ‘The Military” as an infallible sacred cow that must be genuflected to.

  23. The same people that attack Sanders OAC and Warren are the same lot that attack unions in Australia and the likes of Sally McManus

    What nonsense.

  24. Simon Rosenberg
    ‏@simon_rosenberg

    #FraserAnning asked on @RNBreakfast for his evidence about a big problem with ‘Sudanese gangs’, given the police and crime stats say otherwise.
    Says he got it from “the media”. The #Murdochracy no doubt. #auspol

  25. phoenixRED:

    [‘He’s said he knows more about ISIS than the generals do.’]

    Thus in essence, it’s just a matter of his ego. I saw the presser where he said he knows more than his generals, that he would’ve made a great one. What he ommitted to tell the viewer, however, was that you can’t be a general without serving in the army. He had his chance in ’68, where there’s evidence that he avoided the draft on very spurious grounds.

  26. zoomster

    That shows you don’t understand the battle Sanders has won.

    The Democratic party has now embraced Universal Medicare that Sanders has advocated for ages. Partly in direct concession to Sanders as they changed the rules to accommodate him.

    Like it or not Sanders has been very influential in the Democratic party.
    Thats not saying I think he is going to win the primary process. After all there are still unknown candidates that can nominate and do an Obama. Come out of seemingly nowhere to take the crown.

    Sanders is attacked by the same people that attack Sally McManus precisely because they want to limit what they see as the move to the left.

    If you think McManus is practical you can’t call Sanders and his policies impractical for the very reason those policies work and do appeal to voters and do reduce inequality.

  27. One thing travelling and living abroad has done is almost completely remove me from popular western culture.

    Try becoming a parent. My music tastes now seem to mostly include Taylor Swift and TV is Lady Bug and Cat Noir and Survivor.

    I miss Ben and Holly’s little Kingdom, but the kids wont let me watch that anymore.

  28. I saw Vice – about Dick Cheney’s rise to power – and see it is nominated for the most Golden Globe? Awards, though it could be Oscars.

    All I can say is that if it has the most nominations, the rest of what is being produced must be absolute crap. The acting is good, but it barely carries a disjointed plot, and unfulfilling narrative. It’s like a Michael Moore documentary – but with a $100m budget.

  29. Upmorth

    Well said.

    I have not met either party. That such a statement can be issued shows that despite the relationship falling apart these are mature sane adults making the best of a shitty situation.

    Very far from the domestic violence or even the LNP scandals we have witnessed lately. Maybe practising family values works better than saying you are a family values person. Otherwise known as mature humanity.

  30. Well said, Guytaur. There are a few Labor people here who only want politics to be carried out on the right of the political spectrum.

  31. Mavis Smith says: Monday, January 7, 2019 at 12:10 pm

    phoenixRED:

    [‘He’s said he knows more about ISIS than the generals do.’]

    He had his chance in ’68, where there’s evidence that he avoided the draft on very spurious grounds.

    ********************************************************************

    “Spurious grounds” – good choice of words, Mavis – those ‘bone spurs’ that dear Daddy dreamed up – It involves a foot doctor in Queens who rented his office from Mr. Trump’s father, Fred C. Trump, and a suggestion that the diagnosis was granted as a courtesy to the elder Mr. Trump.

    Did a Queens Podiatrist Help Donald Trump Avoid Vietnam?

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/26/us/politics/trump-vietnam-draft-exemption.html

    Anyway while the poor drafted grunts toughed it out in Vietnam – Donald stayed at home fighting his own Vietnam – Trump Boasted of Avoiding STDs While Dating: Vaginas Are ‘Landmines … It Is My Personal Vietnam’

    https://people.com/politics/trump-boasted-of-avoiding-stds-while-dating-vaginas-are-landmines-it-was-my-personal-vietnam/

  32. The RW have gone ape shit over her call to raise taxes on the rich. Economist Paul Krugman in the NYT has a look. May well have lessons for us . The Libs are sure to scream over Labor and ‘tax increases.’

    .
    .
    The Economics of Soaking the Rich

    I have no idea how well Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez will perform as a member of Congress. But her election is already serving a valuable purpose. You see, the mere thought of having a young, articulate, telegenic nonwhite woman serve is driving many on the right mad — and in their madness they’re inadvertently revealing their true selves…………………………………………
    …………………………………….The controversy of the moment involves AOC’s advocacy of a tax rate of 70-80 percent on very high incomes, which is obviously crazy, right? I mean, who thinks that makes sense? Only ignorant people like … um, Peter Diamond, Nobel laureate in economics and arguably the world’s leading expert on public finance.
    https://outline.com/83YzNf

  33. Nicholas @ #2215 Monday, January 7th, 2019 – 10:49 am

    The argument that a certain candidate should decline to run because “they would be splitting the vote” is the dumbest argument one can level against a candidate.

    In a democracy, however, there are these things called FREEDOM and OPTIONS.

    Yes, and freedoms and options are what you can do. Making a statement about what a person should do is different, and doesn’t having anything to do with the first thing. Example:

    You can go to the beach in Melbourne and walk around throwing Nazi salutes and chanting racist things if you want. However that doesn’t mean you should, as aside from everything else that’s obviously ethically wrong with that plan, you 1) won’t actually accomplish anything, and 2) may encounter civil consequences as your friends and coworkers decide they’d rather not associate with a neo-Nazi jackass and exercise their freedom to not do so.

    If you’re talking about a nation that doesn’t do preferential voting and just awards total victory to whomever has the biggest pile of votes even if/when the piles are spread out across a dozen different candidates, then telling hopeless fringe candidates that they shouldn’t run isn’t a bad idea at all. The reality is that if they run then they’ll accomplish less than nothing, by taking votes off the non-fringe candidate from their side of the spectrum and helping someone from the other side win instead. Perfect is the enemy of good, etc., etc..

    Of course they can run if they really want to, but telling them that they should run because they can is a much dumber proposition than telling them that they shouldn’t run because doing so is self-defeating.

    It stacks up differently if you’re talking about Australia. Where by all means independents and micro parties should stand up and run*, because preferences.

    * But really they should know enough to do so without attacking other parties from the same side of the political spectrum as themselves. You don’t win a war by attacking your allies.

  34. Independent Queensland senator Fraser Anning says he doesn’t care if he loses his seat in the next federal election after coming under intense scrutiny for attending a far-right rally in Melbourne.

    The Queensland senator insists he was representing his local constituents on the interstate trip

    https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/politics/federal/wouldn-t-worry-me-in-slightest-fraser-anning-unfazed-about-whether-he-s-re-elected-20190107-p50pxg.html
    I guess then he is just doing his job, which is to support the fascists on behalf of us Queenslanders! Let’s not forget that One Nation and Katter are tied to this “man”.

  35. There is a video doing the rounds showing all the times Trump has said he knows more about X than anyone. Why people believe this nonsense is anyone’s guess, but he still keeps on declaring himself the most knowledgeable person on the planet.

  36. phoenixRED

    Not sure if Trump’s getting out of Vietnam service will stir many up. Dubya and his neocon Chicken Hawks were pretty much wall to wall ‘Vietnam Avoiders’. Did not seem to hamper those bustards. The only person who copped shit over Vietnam was poor bloody John ‘Silver Star, Purple Heart’ Kerry who actually went.

  37. poroti –

    Good. It might help chip away at the tendency to treat ‘The Military” as an infallible sacred cow that must be genuflected to.

    The potential dynamics with respect to this are complex.

    I agree it would be reassuring to have the hagiography, deification of the military in the US toned down many notches, and for there to be less of the public pseudo-religious, effectively culturally mandated, behaviour (“thank you for your service” etc). (Here, too; thanks Howard for boosting Anzac day to holy status).

    However, we’re talking about Trump here. There will be a lot of political and cultural mileage in being anti-Trump going forward. That applies to the left, the Dems and the Trump-distancing Republicans; you’ve commented yourself how being anti-Trump has turned the CIA and the FBI into venerated, respected institutions by some on the left. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a doubling down on the military reverence from all those signalling their anti-Trumpiness. Sure, it will be interesting to see if Trump’s denigration of various aspects of the US military leads to a rethink on the part of some of his rusted on base, who are frequently gung-ho military aligned types, but still …

    Where it ends up on balance, who knows, I would suspect that when Trump is an ex-rooster there will only be a very small minority – much less even than the 30ish% who look rusted on at the moment – who will recall him with any fondness and that positioning as anti-Trump or post-Trump will be generally adopted by political, cultural, popular figures, without (perhaps) necessarily voicing anti-Trump sentiments explicitly (many will, as they do now, of course, but many on the conservative side will probably just stop referencing him).

  38. ar

    No matter what you think of Sanders it has been documented he appeals to Trump voters.

    The only question being does that mean he has a better chance against Trump than an “establishment” candidate?

    If Sanders can win the Clinton vote his attraction for some of those Trump supporters means Trump loses some of his base and thus will find it impossible to win the electoral college.

    After the primary process we shall see. However a lot of people here need to take a chill pill with the impractical for Sanders to run arguments. If thats the case the primary process will make that crystal clear.

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