The latest of Essential Research’s fortnightly polls, which continue to limit themselves to issue questions in the wake of the great pollster failure, focuses mostly on the Israel Folau controversy. Respondents registered high levels of recognition of the matter, with 22% saying they had been following it closely, 46% that they had “read or seen some news”, and another 17% saying they were at least “aware”.
Probing further, the poll records very strong support for what seem at first blush to be some rather illiberal propositions, including 64% agreement with the notion that people “should not be allowed to argue religious freedom to abuse others”. However, question wording would seem to be very important here, as other questions find an even split on whether Folau “has the right to voice his religious views, regardless of the hurt it could cause others” (34% agree, 36% disagree), and whether there should be “stronger laws to protect people who express their religious views in public” (38% agree, 38% disagree). Furthermore, 58% agreed that “employers should not have the right to dictate what their employees say outside work”, which would seem to encompass the Folau situation.
Respondents were also asked who would benefit and suffer from the federal government’s policies over the next three years, which, typically for a Coalition government, found large companies and corporations expected to do best (54% good, 11% bad). Other results were fairly evenly balanced, the most negative findings relating to the environment (26% good, 33% bad) and, funnily enough, “older Australians” (26% good, 38% bad). The economy came in at 33% good and 29% bad, and “Australia in general” at 36% good and 27% bad. The poll was conducted last Tuesday to Saturday from a sample of 1099.
Also of note:
• A referendum on indigenous recognition may be held before the next election, after Aboriginal Affairs Minister Ken Wyatt’s announcement on Wednesday that he would pursue a consensus option for a proposal to go before voters “during the current parliamentary term”. It is clear the government would not be willing to countenance anything that went further than recognition, contrary to the Uluru Statement from the Heart’s call for a “First Nations Voice enshrined in the Constitution” – a notion derided as a “third chamber of parliament” by critics, including Scott Morrison.
• A paper in the University of Western Australia Law Review keeps the Section 44 pot astir by suggesting 26 current members of federal parliament may fall foul by maintaining a “right of abode” in the United Kingdom – a status allowing “practically the same rights” as citizenship even where citizenship has been formally renounced. The status has only been available to British citizens since 1983, but is maintained by citizens of Commonwealth countries who held it before that time, which they could do through marriage or descent. This could potentially be interpreted as among “the rights or privileges of a subject or citizen of a foreign power”, as per the disqualifying clause in Section 44. Anyone concerned by this has until the end of the month to challenge an election result within the 40 day period that began with the return of the writs on June 21. Action beyond that point would require referral by the House of Representatives or the Senate, as appropriate.
Douglas and Milko @ #1897 Tuesday, July 16th, 2019 – 10:44 pm
‘Quietly abandoned in December’ they say. I tell you, it gladdens my heart to see the Coalition fighting with their mates the builders, architects, surveyors and insurance companies like Kilkenny cats over the last bit of meat. Gladys is doing her best, ‘nothing to see here, I’ve got it all in hand’, impression but it just keeps bubbling away and threatening to boil over.
Ignoring the Labor zealots here and in the wider world is the way to go, and I usually do.
The hypocrisy and self-righteous sanctimony of those who are now making excuses for Labor that it can’t do anything because it is in opposition but tiresomely hammer the Greens for standing up for its policy agenda and advocating for such is breathtaking.
Lawrence O Donnell on Trump
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kDS3MbMQNMU
Pegasus @ #1901 Tuesday, July 16th, 2019 – 10:50 pm
Keep swinging, Pegasus.
And missing. 😆
Wasn’t the Zetland block of units built during the reign of the Keneally Government of was it the Rees government?
Pegasus seems to have missed the bit where it was Labor’s policy, as they have them too, to review Newstart in government if they won the election. They didn’t, so have had to shift perspective.
Oh well, it’s given lacklustre Greens something to carp about, I suppose.
In Green Valley, Labor are faulted for not supporting a stunt-vote to raise New Start. And then they re faulted for calling for a raise in New Start.
In Green Valley, the unemployed are politically exploited by the Liberals and their out-riders, the Greens, who would prefer to criticise Labor than agitate for an increase in New Start. In Green Valley, the unemployed will starve before the Greens will add their voices to Labor’s call. In Green Valley, The Liberals are in charge and the Greens are with them every day.
Confessions @ #1889 Tuesday, July 16th, 2019 – 10:24 pm
Well they have to have a platform somewhere to be heard. They are rejected by ~91% of the general population. I’m sure that there are many Greens supporters that are genuine, unfortunately on here we only see the political point scorers that have achieve nothing.
Oakeshott Government @ #1904 Tuesday, July 16th, 2019 – 10:53 pm
Possibly. However the Opal wasn’t, nor was the one in Alexandria (?) that have cracked up, and you have to say that the building boom has been put on steroids by the NSW Coalition government.
“Yes, he has engaged well with Reason/Fiona Patten and the Animal Justice Party.”
As I have posted before, If the Reason party and AJP threatened Labor held seats Andrews would treat them with the same disdain.
His mo is to avoid giving the Greens any kudos, all the while implementing Greens’ policies, or part thereof, that are supported by RP and AJP.
Pegasus @ #1909 Tuesday, July 16th, 2019 – 10:59 pm
Lol.
Fiona Patten is an intelligent, co-operative consensus builder. The Greens could learn a LOT from her.
In Labor zealot land the only stunts will be a Labor ones.
All the frothing about ignoring the Greens. This after it’s pointed out it’s Labor faithful doing the questioning.
The reason the Green Stunt damaged Labor so badly. They voted against it. They voted with the government to keep Newstart low. In parliament by your votes you know them. As a stunt to vote for Newstart to rise would not have hurt Labor politically.
That’s it. It’s Labor’s vote not the Greens stunt that is the problem for Labor.
Anyhoo, comfy, warm bed awaits. Still bitterly cold here on the coast in NSW. Sweet dreams everybody!
But I’ll leave you with a nightmare. I bet when the Morrisons go to the USA they pray with the Pences. 🙂
Nope, the Mascot Towers were built at the same time as the Zetland units. Both were over 10 years old when structural problems developed. This is not a problem related to recent construction or recent government action even if that Is the SMH’s narrative
It makes perfect sense for Labor to try to avoid dealing with the Greens. The Greens do not want to deal. They want to defeat Labor. They despise Labor to the core. The Greens are more deeply resentful of Labor than are the Liberals. If Labor were to propose to deal with the Greens, the ground would immediately shift. The Greens will make sure there is never common ground. There will only be contested ground and eternal enmity as far as the Greens are concerned. This is completely obvious. The tactic is well-worn by now. The Greens will in all cases and at all times oppose Labor. They are the Abbotts of the pop-left. There is no principle they will not quickly dump if it means they can obstruct and rebuke Labor.
https://fionapatten.com.au/news/crossbench-use-numbers-pressure-victorian-government-introduce-pill-testing/
“Victoria’s diverse Upper House crossbench is demanding the Andrews Government undertake a trial of pill testing, and are vowing to make the issue a key matter in the Parliament.
::::
The group includes Reason Party’s Fiona Patten, the Greens leader Samantha Ratnam, two Liberal Democrats, the Animal Justice Party’s Andy Meddick and independent Catherine Cumming.
:::
But a Government spokesperson said there were no plans to allow pill testing at events in Victoria.
:::
The Greens have long advocated for pill testing, with federal leader Richard Di Natale joining young people this month to once again call for the scheme.”
What’s the bet Andrews will flip before the next state election and stand next to Fiona Patten when he does.
OC
The style of building code inspection that resulted in Grenfell was first done by Margaret Thatcher. I guess the same is true here. The neoliberal age brought in deregulation. That applies no matter if it was a Labor or LNP Government since.
Great inheritance the neoliberal age has left us. We are still fighting it today.
In Green Valley the unemployed will be exploited by the Liberals, who will make examples of them. And they will be exploited by the Greens, who will use them to defame Labor. Pity the unemployed. They are the playthings of the Lib-Green plurality.
Pegasus says:
Tuesday, July 16, 2019 at 11:09 pm
https://fionapatten.com.au/news/crossbench-use-numbers-pressure-victorian-government-introduce-pill-testing/
What’s the bet Andrews will flip befre the next state election and stand next to Fiona Patten when he does.
I hope so.
Newstart
https://rachel-siewert.greensmps.org.au/articles/greens-bill-increase-newstart-will-be-debated-senate-next-week
“The Australian Greens bill to increase Newstart, Social Services Legislation Amendment (Ending the Poverty Trap) Bill 2018 will be debated in the Senate next week in private members time.
“It is untenable that people on Newstart continue to live in poverty, the Government should be moving immediately to address the appalling low rate of Newstart. Unfortunately they are not so the Greens will”, said Senator Rachel Siewert, Australian Greens spokesperson on Family and Community Services.
“The Greens have been campaigning for an increase to Newstart for a long time, this is the fourth private members bill that I have introduced to increase the rate of Newstart.
“The Government and the so-called Opposition must commit to an urgent, minimum $75 a week increase to Newstart payments because people cannot afford to eat properly or find affordable accommodation.
“Newstart hasn’t been increased in over 25 years. Both the Government and Labor are ignoring people living in poverty. If we can afford to give those earning some of the highest income a tax cut we can afford to increase Newstart.
“The current rate is so low that people are unable to afford basic living costs such as housing, food, bills and healthcare.
“The Greens have been calling for an independent process for setting pensions and allowances for years and will be referring this issue to a Senate inquiry when the Senate resumes.”
Do the Greens need to run this by Labor before doing so?
What I’d like to know is when will the Greens support Labor on New Start? When will the Greens seriously start to contest the repression of labour in this country? When will they add their voice to Labor’s voice? When will they become an ally of Labor and not an adversary? When will they disown dysfunction?
“What I’d like to know is when will the Greens support Labor on New Start?”
What I’d like to know is when will Labor support the Greens on Newstart?
Boerwar says:
Tuesday, July 16, 2019 at 5:19 pm
Obviously not enough were clappers, who properly understood Australian community standards.
Mex seems to be in tune. Maybe he’s in line for a gig?
The dysfunction on the centre left means there will most likely never again be a strong, stable and effective reformist government elected in Australia. We have had just one elected from Opposition in the century since WW1. There will not be another one as long as dysfunction persists.
Aside from the local saga, some bedtime reading for the bludgers on another election and the fate of the deplorable Greens
Strangely incompatible with some mythologies, increasing dissatisfaction with the environment situation correlates with higher Greens vote in Europe
And an extended analysis of the dreaded Greenwave in Europe and whether it’s here to stay, in Europe at least. Seems there will be more movement on climate and carbon.
With many NSW and Qld towns possibly to start running out of water, climate change, water and environment are surely to impact people’s minds here as much or more than they already have.
Satisfaction With Environment Declines Ahead of Green Wave
https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/260525/satisfaction-environment-declines-ahead-green-wave.aspx?utm_source=tagrss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=syndication
Europeans flocked to the polling stations in late May in numbers not seen since 1999 to elect a new swath of representatives into the European Parliament. Migration, security and the overall future of the European Union were on voters’ minds as they cast their ballots, but in addition to the changing political climate, many were also thinking about climate change.
Europeans have become increasingly supportive of public action to reduce humanity’s toll on the environment and counter climate change, but the size of the “Green Wave” that swept the ballot boxes in many European nations was much larger than anyone expected. Collecting 75 of the 751 seats in the European Parliament, the once left-out Green Party is now the fourth-largest party.
The Green Wave: Here to Stay?
https://thepolitic.org/the-green-wave-here-to-stay/
“The Green Wave has really spread all over Europe.” This was the victorious announcement of Ska Keller, a co-convenor of the Green group in the European Parliament, when May 23 saw the dawn of a radical shift in the European Union’s political climate. Seventy-five Green Members of the European Parliament (MEPs), running on a strict environmentalist, pro-EU agenda, were elected across Europe, forming the fourth-largest bloc in the legislative body. Whether it was Die Grunen surging into second place in Germany, Les Verts coming from the political wilderness to take third place in France, or the UK’s Green Party gaining more seats than the incumbent Conservatives, voters had clearly made a statement.
Peg….Labor did not use its call for an increase to New Start as an occasion to bag the Greens. When will the Greens stop using the unemployed to bag Labor? When will the Greens disown dysfunction?
Briefly
It may grieve you but the fact is recorded in Hansard. Labor voted against raising Newstart.
No claims after the fact change this. The message was received loud and clear by the public as reflected by media comments. Calling those media commentators Green doesn’t change what voters are hearing. Labor thinks the amount of raise should be under $75.
When will the Greens stop campaigning for the Liberals?
guytaur says:
Tuesday, July 16, 2019 at 11:24 pm
Briefly
It may grieve you…
Green stunts do not grieve me. It’s worse than that. The dysfunction of which the Greens are the original authors means there will never be another reformist government elected federally in this country. We are fucked.
“When will the Greens stop campaigning for the Liberals?”
When will Labor stop campaigning for the Liberals?
Briefly.
Instead of whining about the Greens all Labor has to say is of course Newstart should be $75 or above. How much above is why we want a review.
Labor should have said this before the election. LNP MP’s were out there like Sinodinos saying yes the rate has to rise.
On a happier note, this afternoon and this evening I did a small oil painting. It’s called “Study – Female figure lying on her side side”. It’s small, abstracted and simplified. She’s beautiful.
guytaur, in Green Valley, hope will perish. We are all fucked in the Valley.
Quoll,
Thanks for the links.
“Still, the 2019 European Parliament elections were the first major steps. The Greens look like they’re here to stay.”
and
“When one looks at the change in dissatisfaction with efforts to preserve the environment between the 2014 and 2019 European elections, we see that there has been a growing negative sentiment within the countries that had strong voter turnout for the Green Party. With these factors in mind, perhaps the European Greens manifesto that climate change and the environment “is the very substance of our political struggle and we will keep on being uncompromising on the necessity of concrete climate policies” resonated with European voters.”
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/07/16/politics/donald-trump-squad-ilhan-omar-racist/index.html
Briefly
Labor has only itself to blame for its vote. It’s that simple. No matter how you whine. It’s what happens when you get so much into pragmatism you miss the message you are sending to voters about the values you stand for.
Stand for the values and Green stunts do Labor no damage
At least Briefly sees the Greens as a great and powerful force capable of keeping the ALP out of government forever. 🙂
Seems like a quiet night on Pollbludger, so I will post about my Bastille day experience.
In Fontainbleau, the celebration is on the 13th July, in the evening. They have a military march past, but after having watched such things in a variety off countries, it was surprisingly friendly and non-nationalistic. The local fire brigade was also attached to the parade, and each firetruck got a big cheer.
There were representatives of the Algerian army to watch the march past, and very big cheers for a German army contingent who also marched. The camaraderie between all the various armed forces, fire brigade members and civilian representatives was very interesting to see – no feeling of “we are the military, bow down before us”.
The local American school of French Music sang the Marseillaise, in T-shirsts, with a lot of laughing at their bad French accents, while the flag was raised.
The speech from the mayor was short but powerful. He thanked the original people who had stormed the Bastille, Napoleon, those who fought over two hundred years to make French democracy what it is. He then proceeded to give a list of what they were so proud of.
My main memory is of:
*A free press
* Free and compulsory education for all, and
* The separation of church and state – clapped very loudly at this last one, and waved my tricolour.
Also very pleased to Angela Merkel on stage with Macron for the Paris March on the 14th.
It’s hilarious that those “irrelevant Greens”, so few in number, can rob the mighty Labor party of it’s agency.
Pegasus
says:
Tuesday, July 16, 2019 at 11:49 pm
It’s hilarious that those “irrelevant Greens”, so few in number, can rob the mighty Labor party of it’s agency.
_____________________
Who would have thought it? They might as well disband entirely, what’s the point? They will never take government again.
The difference between winning and losing federal elections is not much. The Greens exert just enough influence to separate the Liberals from defeat. They’re spoilers.
If the Greens had existed in 1941 they would have opposed the formation of the Curtin Government. Their forerunners, the CPA, did their best to stymie Curtin. Luckily they failed. The Curtin Government was undoubtedly the greatest we have had. Nothing in modern Australia would be possible had it not been for Curtin and Chifley. Yet the Greens would have set out to disable and destroy the greatest in our history. They would have sided with the Socialist Left against Whitlam. They would have tried to defeat Hawke. They conspired with the Liberals to defeat Rudd. They are just spoilers. They are splitters and wreckers. The will keep the Liberals in office for as long as they can.
OC,
Could have been either, but the last term of that NSW APL government made some terrible decisions policy wise, and a huge amount of repetitional image to Labor. Building trust is hard, but necessary, but our current NSW government may be good a building roads, but they are incredibly cruel when it comes to shutting down homeless shelters, cutting domestic violence funds, support to community centres.
They have also privatised public transport, EXCEPT on the North Shore, and have put a steep toll on the M4 (runs to the Western suburbs) to pay for an expressway to the Northern suburbs – and yes, they have openly admitted this. sometimes I think they are actually trolling the poorer people.
“It’s what happens when you get so much into pragmatism you miss the message you are sending to voters about the values you stand for.”
The problem for Labor is it no longer knows what it stands for. It has difficulty adopting consistent long term held values and principles that will underpin an inclusive vision to be defended and fought for.
Peg,
Yes, if they want Labor’s support. Otherwise it is another “political instagram account” stunt.
Building consensus is how you get things done in a democracy.
Pegasus says:
Tuesday, July 16, 2019 at 11:56 pm
The problem for Labor is it no longer knows what it stands for. It has difficulty adopting consistent long term held values and principles that will underpin an inclusive vision to be defended and fought for.
This is a lie. It is a Green lie. In Green Valley the truth is never told. There are only lies.
Peg,
also Siewert including the fooling paragraph in the motion
shows that it was meant as a Labor wedge – why would Labor vote for a motion saying they are ignoring people living in poverty. It is just not true.
It would be different if the motion had any chance of actually increasing Newstart, but even then you would put up. adjoins motion.
I do not approve when Labor plays these games either.
Pegasus says:
Tuesday, July 16, 2019 at 11:18 pm
Probably a good idea, that way both Parties could coordinate their attacks on the Government making them more effective and avoid getting in each other’s way.
Was this a stunt? Did Labor run it by the Greens beforehand re how it would vote?
https://theyvoteforyou.org.au/policies/162/detail
Motion
“That the Senate supports the development of the Carmichael Mine project and the opening of the Galilee Basin.”
Who voted in support – the Nationals, Liberals and Labor.
What a stunt.